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Latest Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread - Page 126

post #3751 of 4509
10/25/12 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rc05 View Post

tgrinch and xnappo, I watch the Daily Show on Comedy Central as well, and it's the ONLY channel where I've seen macroblocking. And it's relatively frequent too. I'm on Charter and Comedy Central is Copy Once here as well. The funny thing is that I have never seen macroblocking on any other channel, copy protected or not. Not even on the movie channels. Fortunately it doesn't annoy me. My Firmware is 1.1.7.2 (I think that's the latest stable one) and Hardware Version is 5124.

I will say that I have never seen in during 'The Walking Dead', but have seen it on DiscoveryHD shows and TLC. Something to do with the format/bitrate of the streams maybe?

xnappo
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post #3752 of 4509
10/25/12 at 4:38pm
Are AMC/Discovery copy once for you? Here, both of them are copy freely and I watch Breaking Bad and MythBusters and never have seen macroblocking. I find it interesting that Comedy Central seems to be a common channel we're seeing this with, even with different providers I assume. I'm pretty sure someone over at thegreenbutton also said Comedy Central had macroblocking for them.
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post #3753 of 4509
10/25/12 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

I will say that I have never seen in during 'The Walking Dead', but have seen it on DiscoveryHD shows and TLC. Something to do with the format/bitrate of the streams maybe?
xnappo
I get it most often on my copy once premium pay channels but I have also seen it on some other copy freely channels as well. Maybe it has something to do with the frequency the channels are on.

I've been thinking about trying a low pass MoCA filter but I don't want Verizon rolling a truck. I'd rather not have a cable guy poking around my computer and moving cables around. Is this the right one? They claim it "Works great with Ceton Multi-Stream tuner cards".
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post #3754 of 4509
10/25/12 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rc05 View Post

I find it interesting that Comedy Central seems to be a common channel we're seeing this with, even with different providers I assume.
I've never noticed it on Comedy Central and I watch The Daily Show all the time.
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post #3755 of 4509
10/25/12 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rc05 View Post

Are AMC/Discovery copy once for you? Here, both of them are copy freely and I watch Breaking Bad and MythBusters and never have seen macroblocking. I find it interesting that Comedy Central seems to be a common channel we're seeing this with, even with different providers I assume. I'm pretty sure someone over at thegreenbutton also said Comedy Central had macroblocking for them.

Freaking everything is copy once here. I agree I think it is likely to do with frequency - I am trying to note that along with channel and tuner since with f*ing SDV frequency changes.

Just watched American Horror Story and it happened 5-6 times. Not happy! Want my old card back! frown.giffrown.gif

xnappo
Edited by xnappo - 10/25/12 at 6:54pm
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post #3756 of 4509
10/25/12 at 9:00pm
Yea, SDV and everything (virtually) copy once here with TWC in Dallas. I've learned to live with it so it doesn't bother me that much.
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post #3757 of 4509
10/25/12 at 10:47pm
F Time Warner. I switch from Cox because I moved to KC and they are horrible. Everything is tagged as copy once and their quality is HORRIBLE. CWS channel has the worst macroblocking. When watching Arrow any movement at all results in macroblocking and is unbearable to watch. I want to pirate it just because I cannot stand watching the crap I am getting from TW. Also a lot of other channels have this problem also and it is getting very old.
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post #3758 of 4509
10/26/12 at 6:40am
I use the Ceton pci version with windows media center, and I would like to use external drives for recorded and live tv. Any thoughts, concerns, or recommendations? Thanks.
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post #3759 of 4509
10/26/12 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Freaking everything is copy once here. I agree I think it is likely to do with frequency - I am trying to note that along with channel and tuner since with f*ing SDV frequency changes.
Just watched American Horror Story and it happened 5-6 times. Not happy! Want my old card back! frown.giffrown.gif
xnappo

I do think that it is higher frequencies causing the problem. Comedy Central is 675Mhz for me.

So I did some digging in the log files from my old card. I had enough logs to conclude that the signal levels were identical on it.

The old care was hardware version 6212 and the one I received from the RMA is version 6210.

I see people talking about updating hardware versions - what is meant by that? I don't see any way to do that?

Thanks,
xnappo
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post #3760 of 4509
10/26/12 at 8:50am
"The InfiniTV network tuner bridging feature will not be available in Windows 8."

This is just terrible.... I really hope this is not by choice of Ceton because of their new extenders. This will cause me to stop using Ceton products.

Please Ceton figure this out Asap.
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post #3761 of 4509
10/26/12 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheatdeath View Post

"The InfiniTV network tuner bridging feature will not be available in Windows 8."

Where did you see this?
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post #3762 of 4509
10/26/12 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheatdeath View Post

"The InfiniTV network tuner bridging feature will not be available in Windows 8."
This is just terrible.... I really hope this is not by choice of Ceton because of their new extenders. This will cause me to stop using Ceton products.
Please Ceton figure this out Asap.
I noticed that too and suspected some people wouldn't be happy about it. I doubt it has anything to do with the Echo and probably has something to do with some networking changes in Windows 8. Hopefully a Ceton rep will be able to explain what the reason is for that and if it's a permanent limitation or something they expect to be able to address later when they get to it. Fortunately, it's not an issue for me as I have no interest in using that feature.
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post #3763 of 4509
10/26/12 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Movnmik View Post

Where did you see this?

Ceton email sent to all subscribed users. The link below is pretty much the email I got. I must say it is pretty stupid that Win 8 and or Ceton will not support network tuners.

Ceton Windows 8 Support Info
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post #3764 of 4509
10/26/12 at 9:13am
Please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Ceton card bridge to the NIC during normal setup? And if that's the case, the Ceton wouldn't work with Win8.

Thanks
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post #3765 of 4509
10/26/12 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Movnmik View Post

Please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Ceton card bridge to the NIC during normal setup? And if that's the case, the Ceton wouldn't work with Win8.
Thanks

Why?
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post #3766 of 4509
10/26/12 at 9:24am
This is based on my "limited" understanding of the entire setup process. But during setup of a normal installation, the card is bridged with the NIC to provide access to the network. I'm thinking this has to happen for the card to even work, again, I could be totally wrong. If the card doesn't have to be considered one with the network then I guess this step wouldn't be needed if you are using the card for the machine that it is in.

So as I wrap my head around this, this would prevent the ability to share tuners to other machines and would force you to extend it vs. share it.
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post #3767 of 4509
10/26/12 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Movnmik View Post

This is based on my "limited" understanding of the entire setup process. But during setup of a normal installation, the card is bridged with the NIC to provide access to the network. I'm thinking this has to happen for the card to even work, again, I could be totally wrong. If the card doesn't have to be considered one with the network then I guess this step wouldn't be needed if you are using the card for the machine that it is in.
So as I wrap my head around this, this would prevent the ability to share tuners to other machines and would force you to extend it vs. share it.

I guess I do not fully understand how Win 8 works or what has changed. What exactly in Win 8 does not allow network tuning? I just don't understand what your saying.
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post #3768 of 4509
10/26/12 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Movnmik View Post

Please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Ceton card bridge to the NIC during normal setup? And if that's the case, the Ceton wouldn't work with Win8.
Thanks

No, while tuner cards act as network devices, under the normal installation, the card has predefined IP, buts it's not on your Network, only the PC with the tuner has access to it.
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post #3769 of 4509
10/26/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheatdeath View Post

Ceton email sent to all subscribed users. The link below is pretty much the email I got. I must say it is pretty stupid that Win 8 and or Ceton will not support network tuners.
Ceton Windows 8 Support Info

It's a very easy decision, don't upgrade.

I was going to upgrade an old Vista Machine with the $40 anytime upgrade deal MS is offering, but I have no plans to upgrade my Win 7 HTPC's, these units will remain unchanged for as long as the PC's are still usable. But If Ceton is to continue to compete with the HD prime it would be to their advantage to figure this out, other wise the value proposition for the 4th tuner goes out the window if you cant share the tuner on multiple systems.

What I would like to know is this an issue with the Host or the client? Would it be possible to host in a windows 7 PC, while running Win 8 on the client.
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post #3770 of 4509
10/26/12 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey75 View Post


What I would like to know is this an issue with the Host or the client? Would it be possible to host in a windows 7 PC, while running Win 8 on the client.

I have the same question. I would keep my HTPCs running 7 and my main pc would be upgraded to 8.
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post #3771 of 4509
10/26/12 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey75 View Post

It's a very easy decision, don't upgrade.
I was going to upgrade an old Vista Machine with the $40 anytime upgrade deal MS is offering, but I have no plans to upgrade my Win 7 HTPC's, these units will remain unchanged for as long as the PC's are still usable. But If Ceton is to continue to compete with the HD prime it would be to their advantage to figure this out, other wise the value proposition for the 4th tuner goes out the window if you cant share the tuner on multiple systems.
What I would like to know is this an issue with the Host or the client? Would it be possible to host in a windows 7 PC, while running Win 8 on the client.

Well its the obvious decision... But its also obviously not the long term decision. I will not be using Windows 7 forever and if Ceton does not come up with a solution I wont be using their products forever either. I also would like to know if upgrading client computers only and not the host will work or not. I would like to try Win 8 on my main PC but not at the cost of losing Network Tuner support.
Edited by Cheatdeath - 10/26/12 at 10:31am
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post #3772 of 4509
10/26/12 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey75 View Post

I was going to upgrade an old Vista Machine with the $40 anytime upgrade deal MS is offering, but I have no plans to upgrade my Win 7 HTPC's, these units will remain unchanged for as long as the PC's are still usable. But If Ceton is to continue to compete with the HD prime it would be to their advantage to figure this out, other wise the value proposition for the 4th tuner goes out the window if you cant share the tuner on multiple systems.
Do you mean the value proposition for you? Otherwise, I don't see what the magic is with just the 4th tuner. In my case, I've got 8 tuners in the PC (2 InfiniTV 4's) and am not sharing them with other PC's at all (and don't even use an extender very often). I have them so I can handle just about any recording scenario allowing up to 8 things recording at the same time (which would include overlap at the end / start of an hour for back to back recordings). Other people have a bunch of tuners to allow a bunch of extenders to each watch different live TV channels. For both of these use cases, network bridging being unavailable is not a factor.

Perhaps someone who cares about the network bridging could contact Ceton for clarification on whether they expect to be able to address this issue at some point or if they never expect it to change before everyone panics. smile.gif
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post #3773 of 4509
10/26/12 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Do you mean the value proposition for you? Otherwise, I don't see what the magic is with just the 4th tuner. In my case, I've got 8 tuners in the PC (2 InfiniTV 4's) and am not sharing them with other PC's at all (and don't even use an extender very often). I have them so I can handle just about any recording scenario allowing up to 8 things recording at the same time (which would include overlap at the end / start of an hour for back to back recordings). Other people have a bunch of tuners to allow a bunch of extenders to each watch different live TV channels. For both of these use cases, network bridging being unavailable is not a factor.
Perhaps someone who cares about the network bridging could contact Ceton for clarification on whether they expect to be able to address this issue at some point or if they never expect it to change before everyone panics. smile.gif

I was making a comparison against the SD HDHR prime, which is clearly geared towards network sharing, otherwise Ceton makes much more sense to purchase as your still paying roughly $50/turn with more effective use of your cable card, but win 8 machines, if the tuner sharing is not resolved, and your just jumping on the band wagon with Win 8 machines, you would have no choice but to forgo the forth tuner and go with a silicon dust HD home run prime.

As you clearly have different requirements, there are number folks that care about the tuner sharing, as this thread is littered with folks who have had issues with the functionality, just read the post on this page. Ceton has not officially released Win 8 drivers nor offered any clarification as to the issues with network tuners, we can revisit in a month for a verdict.

To re-emphasize my original comment, if the network feature is no longer an option, Ceton becomes one dimensional, and folks may opt for the network feature over 4 tuners isolated to a single PC.
Edited by dbailey75 - 10/26/12 at 11:59am
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post #3774 of 4509
10/26/12 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey75 View Post

I was making a comparison against the SD HDHR prime, which is clearly geared towards network sharing, otherwise Ceton makes much more sense to purchase as your still paying roughly $50/turn with more effective use of your cable card, but win 8 machines, if the tuner sharing is not resolved, and your just jumping on the band wagon with Win 8 machines, you would have no choice but to forgo the forth tuner and go with a silicon dust HD home run prime.
As you clearly have different requirements, there are number folks that care about the tuner sharing, as this thread is littered with folks who have had issues with the functionality, just read the post on this page. Ceton has not officially released Win 8 drivers nor offered any clarification as to the issues with network tuners, we can revisit in a month for a verdict.
To re-emphasize my original comment, if the network feature is no longer an option, Ceton becomes one dimensional, and folks may opt for the network feature over 4 tuners isolated to a single PC.
I definitely wasn't intending to discount that the network tuner sharing is important to some users and thanks for clarifying what you meant regarding the 4th tuner - that makes sense. I do think though that we need to get some clarification from Ceton before everyone gets too worked up over this. If it's a permanent thing in Win8, I'm really curious to know what changed with networking. Has there been any word from SiliconDust regarding Win8?
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post #3775 of 4509
10/26/12 at 12:54pm
What exactly holds back the ability to use a well equipped windows 7 / 8 PC as a extender. I mean if they remove tuner bridging the product loses all the cool factor for my usage. If their new little extender and my pos x-box can do it why cant my $3000 PC do it....
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post #3776 of 4509
10/26/12 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I do think though that we need to get some clarification from Ceton before everyone gets too worked up over this. If it's a permanent thing in Win8, I'm really curious to know what changed with networking.


"The InfiniTV network tuner bridging feature will not be available in Windows 8."

What is not clear about this statement to you? To me it is very clear. I would assume if Ceton were to say such a statement it was well thought out and planned exactly because such statements will lose them customers. I can't wait for some additional insight on this from Ceton.
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post #3777 of 4509
10/26/12 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheatdeath View Post

"The InfiniTV network tuner bridging feature will not be available in Windows 8."
What is not clear about this statement to you? To me it is very clear. I would assume if Ceton were to say such a statement it was well thought out and planned exactly because such statements will lose them customers. I can't wait for some additional insight on this from Ceton.
I suppose what's not clear is the "why" behind it. I certainly don't know everything about Windows 8, but I haven't heard of any radical changes to networking going from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and, unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe there's been a comparable announcement from SiliconDust (though how they do the tuner sharing is probably fundamentally different since their tuner is an external network device). So I guess I just find it hard to believe that there's no way for them to make the bridging functionality work in Windows 8. At the very least, it would be nice to get at least a slightly detailed explanation of the reasoning behind this change (definitely agreeing with your last sentence).
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post #3778 of 4509
10/26/12 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

So I guess I just find it hard to believe that there's no way for them to make the bridging functionality work in Windows 8.

100% agree. Unless the feature is available Ceton products are worthless to me, amazing explanations and reasons will not keep me as a customer in the future.
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post #3779 of 4509
10/26/12 at 8:34pm
I had 2 PCIe Cetons but I have recently moved to 2 HDHRPrimes. If tuner sharing is important, I think that HDHRs are the best choice:

1) I've had the HDHRs for only a few weeks, but they already seem much more stable than the bridge networked Cetons

2) The computer host with the bridged Cetons would have the MAC address for the connection change periodically, which caused problem with reserved DHCP assigned IP address. I could never overcome this problem because I could not set the MAC address or a static IP address on the bridge

3) You have to leave the host computer with the PCIe tuners turned on for viewing at another machine

4) MOST IMPORTANT TO ME - The HDHR give, at least apparently to me, true tuner pooling. Everyone complaing about the HDHR having one less tuner than the Ceton, but I don't think that is accurate when it comes to tuner sharing. On the HDHR, three separate HTPCs have access to potentially three tuners. On the Ceton, the tuners are locked to a specific machine if you use the Ceton config utility.
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post #3780 of 4509
10/26/12 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcs2tx View Post

Everyone complaing about the HDHR having one less tuner than the Ceton, but I don't think that is accurate when it comes to tuner sharing. On the HDHR, three separate HTPCs have access to potentially three tuners. On the Ceton, the tuners are locked to a specific machine if you use the Ceton config utility.
If you have 4 PC's, 3 PC's and 1 extender, 1 PC and 3 extenders, or just want to record 4 things at the same time, that extra tuner on the Ceton is very real biggrin.gif. But I'd say there's no question that SiliconDust is probably the better option if sharing tuners with PC's is the highest priority.
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