Latest Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread - Page 142

I'm assuming your provider uses SDV and you have a tuning adapter...I was getting this a lot - sometimes on recordings, but more often when navigating to specific SDV channels using the guide. I would say I'm seeing the issue far less with the latest Tuning Adapter driver from Ceton though. If you don't have a TA, then you've got me.

Threw caution to the wind and updated to latest drivers and firmwares a day ago.

Nothing exploded...but YMMV.

Things are fine.

Yes. A "more-correct" statement would have been "If you are trying to use Extenders, there is no need to install network tuners."

I had a similar problem and opened a ticket with Ceton. It turned out that my cablecard was resetting every once in awhile. I had to go back to the cable company and swap cards. Note that it took three cards before I got one that wouldn't reset.

No SDV and no tuning adapter...

I guess I'll see if it persists, if so, I'll and grab a replacement and try that... Thanks!

I wanted to share my experiences with fixing macroblocking.

After I submitted a ticket, Here's what Ceton said:

"Hi Jon,

Generally speaking, we find that a lot of brands of cable boxes use MoCa and can cause interference on the line if not used with a filter. We've seen similar problems arise from modems as well. If you remove the modem or cable boxes from the lineup, do you continue to have the macroblocking? We generally recommend trying a low-pass or MoCA filter. These will usually clean up the signal and help limit the interference you might receive from other devices on your coax network. We recommend installing the filter right before the infiniTV on the coax line. It is designed to filter out MoCA signals while allowing CATV signals to pass-through without issue.

Here is an example:

http://www.ppc-online.com/broadband/group_trap.php?id=85

If you have any questions please let us know.

Thank You,
Ceton Support"


I took out my cable modem for 48 hours (fed main line directly to my ceton), and I had ZERO pixelation/macroblocking! (luckily I had access to alternative WiFi signal to allow internet access for the 2 day test)

I bought the filter they recommended, installed it right before my Ceton tuner, and BAM, I have no longer have any Macroblocking/Pixelation. (perfect recordings, perfect live tv)
I found a cheap one on eBay for $6. http://r.ebay.com/giAq6E

I'm Happy. So far so good.

P.S. you can also use a TAP instead of a SPLITTER if you want to have a stronger signal sent to the Ceton tuner. A splitter divides the RF signal 50/50 on each output. A tap is more like 25/75. Output the strong side to the Ceton and the weaker side to the cablemodem. (speed is still rock solid)

Now that you mention it I haven't noticed any macroblocking lately. A few weeks ago I moved my FiOS router. It was sitting on a printer stand about 18 inches away from the PC. I moved it to the other side of the house about 50' away. The timing seems right so maybe that's the reason it cleared up? The router is an Actiontec MI424WR with 802.11 b/g wireless.

I got a filter from a FiOS installer about 6 months ago. The filter reduced the macroblocking a bit, but it didn't fix it.

Very nice. I'm going to try this...

Also, I installed the latest install package from Ceton for the InfiniTV, and still subscribed to Beta Channel. Still on H/W 6212 and F/W 1.2.2.6 and no option to update....

Anyone having a problem with their Fios STB crashing when doing on demand when the cable card is plugged into a PC on the same network?

There is absolutely no way this can be possible - the InfiniTV is a one-way device and has no way it could communicate anything to the FiOS STB.

Are you changing the splitter setup when you have the PC connected?

xnappo

I had Verizon change my FiOS to Ethernet instead of coax for my Internet connection.

Are you able to maintain whole home DVR via fios STB with this setup?

I don't use the FiOS set top box - I use the Ceton Infinitv4. I am not sure if you need to keep the Internet router on Coax if you have a set top box.

Yep moca feeds tcp/ip to the cable boxes for guide info...you need it

When my Internet router was on COAX, I had to use a low pass filter. If you want one for free (and are willing to wait and go through the hassle), call for a truck roll to fix the macroblocking. The tech will have a low pass filter on his truck. I used that truck roll to teach the tech about HTPCs and cablecard readers. He was quite interested and quite ignorant, but happily learned all about them. It was my way of paying for the truck roll when I could have fixed it myself.

I can assure you there is a way this is possible. Had verizon replace my router, DVR, and outside box. I would start a demand show and about a minute into it, my STB would crash. 2 different DVRs and a non dvr HD STB. We eventually narrowed it down to my main PC. I took it off the network and demand worked fine. I then removed the ITV from my PC, put it back on the network, and demand still worked. I then put the ITV card back in the PC, but have not connected the verizon cable to it. Started a show and crashed in about a min. Took the card back out and demand works again.
I can see the network bridge on my PC to the ITV card. I know demand works via internet download. Something in the ITV card is crashing the STB.

Not sure what you are referring to with the splitter set up. Of the Coax? No. One cable comes from the outside box. Gets split into 2 STBs and the router. Currently there is not one going to the ITV card, but when I set it up, I had taken one of the cables from one of the STBs.

If you've got a STB you need the FIOS router for guide data. No STB, no router required. If you want to use your own router you'll need to have Verizon activate the ethernet jack on the ONT so you can connect via the RJ-45 connection. I've got one STB but I use my own router to provide internet access for my PCs. The Verizon router connects via the WAN port to a LAN port on my main router. I have both routers assigned different default gateways so there's no conflict. The Verizon router still has to connect to the main splitter via coax to provide guide data to the STB. I also use the Verizon router to provide wireless access for my laptop. Since it uses a separate default gateway it isolates the main network from outside prying eyes that may be able to get into my wireless even though it requires a password.
You do realize that Eric works for Ceton, right? If he says it's not possible I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.

I realize he does. It's in his sig.
What I know is when the ITV is on the home network, the STB crashes when doing on demand. When the ITV is the only thing removed, demand works.
I'm told by verizon the on demand comes from the router via internet, as opposed to a cable channel.
Something the ITV is putting on the network is causing grief to the STB.

As Eric said, there is no way for the card (under most circumstances) to be causing this as it is a one way device on the coax and a two way device between it and the pc and does not put anything on "the" network (by "the" network I'm referring to your home network, it uses its own network between the card and the pc) unless you are using network tuners and even then its still the pc that does this... it is possible the computer causes it if for some reason it is changing network settings for the entire network when the card is plugged in (shouldn't happen as the router should be "controlling" the network). Occasionally I've seen the default gateway change to the ceton tuner but usually this has only affected the pc it is attached to. Are you running network tuners? I've occasionally seen a few anomalies when running in bridged mode. It might also be some settings on the router or an ip address conflict or even it's ip address or network range is conflicting with a hop or address needed for VOD.

If its not a PC/network issue, the only thing I can think of is some type of interference that might be making its way in through the dongle ( I'm assuming you are using a PCIe card (not usb) and using MoCA for ip communication to your STBs) and is interfering with MoCA operation. Depending on the frequencies MoCA is running on, it is possible there is some harmonic or ingress happening mostlikely at the dongle (perhaps caused by equipment around the pc, a nearby ham radio, etc.) If this is what is happening, a MoCA filter attached between the cable and dongle could help alleviate the problem, it also might be possible to set the MoCA channels the router and/or the STB uses (I can't remember how much user control FIOS gives for this). As far as interference from equipment goes, I've seen just about anything cause interference with something else... I once had a transformer (wall wart) for a switch that blocked caller ID from working on all phones/devices within 50 yards and put an audible static hiss on the line... just by plugging it in for longer than 5 minutes (didn't matter if it was powering the switch or not)... I'm only mentioning this because it is "possible" that the card itself is causing the interference but highly unlikely and is more than likely would be some other device.
Edited by signcarver - 3/4/13 at 2:56pm

It is connected via PCIe. And the STB are using MoCA - Assuming I understand this fully. They are only connected to the router via coax, not network cables.
Not sure what dongle you are referring to.
Also, as I haven't had much opportunity to really play with the ITV card much, I'm not clear on what you are asking about the network tuners. Aren't all the tuners in the ITV card network tuners? Or are you referring to a tuner on a seperate PC? I currently have 3 of the 4 tuners dedicated to the PC the ITV card is in, and plan to have a tuner set up on another PC in another room, but have not done anything with that yet.
As for interference, before we determined it was a problem with the PC, we tried several things. Including turning off the wifi on the router, disconnecting my ATT Microcell (which is near the PC in question), shutting down the work VPN. I do have 2 other routers on my network (home). When we disconnected them from the network, we started to make progress on identifying the starting point of the issue.


The thing that gets me about this, well other then everything, is if it was a simple networking loss of data, I would expect degraded images, or total loss of VOD. But what I'm getting is a hard crash.
I don't think I've tried it with a cable plugged in to the ITV card yet. That and breaking the network bridge on my PC will be my next steps.

Your not using moca adaptorts + STB > 7 total, are you? I had an issue awhile back where I had more than 7 total moca devices on the network (5 STB, 3 moca adaptors) and the last device added to the network (I had one box in the wife's gym that was always unplugged) would cause a STB to appear to crash. The real problem turned out to be that the original fios router only supported a max of 7 moca devices. Strictly a fios problem, but started showing itself after I got the infinitv + 2 extenders (which I used moca to add to the network). Verizon initially gave me the same explanation and then I found some info on another forum that pointed to the fios lack of support for more than 7 devices without adding a second moca network (which verizon could never get to work) or adding a cat5 run. Guess which was easier?

Yes the tuners are network as they use ip however usually its on its own network just between the card and the pc its installed on. The "Network Tuners" I was mentioning are a way to install the ceton infinitv to allow it to be used by more than one computer (with the ceton each of the 4 tuners has to be designated to a computer such as all 4 on one computer or 3 and 1 or 2 and 2, the SD HDhomerun prime has shared tuners that all are "available" to any device if they are not being used by another device) by bridging the NIC and the ceton together (some people enable this without thinking) and it sounds like you may have since you were planning on 1 being used by another device. Though I usually don't see problems with network tuners, I've seen some "crazy" things pop up in this configuration, all the little problems I've seen (and they were never the same) can be overcome but it sometimes requires a little sleuthing of the network and what is going on. Usually the problem is with the bridge itself and choosing the wrong gateway. I usually see this happening from sleep as the interface to the ceton can come up before the interface to the lan (or at least that is what appeared to be happening) and usually a third party firewall was involved. I've also saw one setup that actually sent everything to the wan side of the network and came back in (very strange). Sometimes updating your nic's drivers can help with some of the problems. Also since you mentioned bridging, I assume your host PC is windows 7.

The "dongle" I'm referring to is the adapter cable from the standard coax to the mini plug... If you are using MoCA, make sure you have a filter there. That AT&T microcell (and even cell phones in general) may leak into the system and cause interference. ATT cell phones are usually around 850/1900 Mhz and normal moca range is 850-1500 but a newer spec allows it to cover from 500-1500 to allow its use of lower frequencies for when you have a satellite provider. It would not surprise me one bit if it were set to 850 (some feel since you have 1GHz spliiters that the signal should be under 1GHz but usually they handle slightly above just fine).

The hardest part now is to determine if its a network issue or interference (or the possibility mentioned above about >7 MoCA devices)

Reminds me of having too many bells on a single circuit (each telephony device is X number of bells with the standard black, rotary dial phone being one bell). Once you get too many, the circuit stops working properly. That is due to there being too much load for the circuit to power on its own. People started running into this problem when modems were the rage.

Just to be clear - I don't currently have coax going into the ITV card. When I last tested it, the only coax connections I had were 1 router and 2 STB for a total of 3.

Is your InfiniTV using the same IP address as any of your cable boxes?

How do you get the video signal into your InfiniTV if you do not have coax connected to it?

I would assume he's just doing that as a test to try to figure out the exact cause of the issue he's having. The configurations to try would be:

PC without InfiniTV
PC with InfiniTV with no coax, no CableCard
PC with InfiniTV with coax, no CableCard
PC with InfiniTV with CableCard, no coax
PC with InfiniTV with coax and CableCard

I think all we can recommend here is to open a ticket with Ceton and work through it with them, but report back what the findings are.