How do I verify - or debunk - the claims of The Upgrade Company? - Page 4

Has anyone tried contacting Onkyo/Integra to ask them the difference between the hardware, I know it's a longshot especially with Onkyo's quirky customer support but you never know we could get an official "they are identical hardware" response.

This is a simple issue and not even sure why so much time is being spent on this. If they are misleading or lying, just contact Onkyo/Integra (same company). I am sure if it is false, they will just sick the lawyers on them.

Why is it when ever a person ,even one who has bought many different units & enjoyed audio for many years all ways gets dissed here on AVS when they say what Jeff said about the differences in what he had heard between his older Onkyo to his newer one ? Why is his description counter productive ? Are we all imagining a improvement in the purchase of new gear ? Other words I can't give a honest conclusion between product A over product B without getting a " rent-a-scientist" to prepare a detailed report with charts & grafts & only then would my conclusions be accepted ?
So then , My 35+ years of buying & comparing audio equipment renders my conclusions about what is a better product as utterly useless unless I have charts & graphs ?
Please don't throw out that line "that this is THE AV Science Forum" . I have heard that used many times before here @ AVS as a catch line to discredit many posters valid opinions . I myself really would want to hear an informed opinion like what Jeff has offered & I feel that others here @ AVS would find Jeff's conclusion as a useful valid comparison also.

It's a well known fact that the mind perceives differences that are not objectively real:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfPAjUvvnIc

I have little doubt you'd be one of the people who would perceive a superior taste from one of the "gourmet" waters over tap water, and would deride the "charts and graphs" from the NRDC.

More like some audiophiles are engaged in an endless search for the audio equivalent of the Fountain of Youth.

+1

In reading though this thread there is so much "subjective" information that is stated as fact

I for one..have the 885
I have never thought from one thought it was anywhere close to the best I have heard
Is it good..yes...is it anywhere near the best I have heard..no
But the pricing on those other pieces far exceeded the 885

It seems that many think higher of these units than I do
All subjective

A few points of humor
1.There was a comparo of these new Onkyo/Integra units to an Anthem in one of the posts here

Seriously?......NO..LOL

2. The misstated fact about the 5508 being truly balanced

Its not

To my knowledge there is nothing under $6K in a pre/pro that is "truly" balanced
and certainly no pre/pro made by Onkyo is

Warren

^^^^^^

Warren,

I really don't understand your post above. You said you read through the thread but did you read the first post? Jeff is just trying to find out if the 80.2 is indeed different from the 5508 as claimed by TUC.

Then you go on to dismiss others subjective listening impressions but throw your own in by saying:

I for one..have the 885
I have never thought from one thought it was anywhere close to the best I have heard
Is it good..yes...is it anywhere near the best I have heard..no

Then you bring up:

A few points of humor
1.There was a comparo of these new Onkyo/Integra units to an Anthem in one of the posts here

Seriously?......NO..LOL

and:

2. The misstated fact about the 5508 being truly balanced

Its not

To my knowledge there is nothing under $6K in a pre/pro that is "truly" balanced
and certainly no pre/pro made by Onkyo is

Who ever said this was a comparison thread to anything other than TUC's claim of the 5508 being better than the 80.2? It was also TUC who made the statement that the 5508 was truly balanced.

Maybe you should re-read the thread as your post is all over the place.

Your attacking me about my sense of taste now also ? You have come to that conclusion just from me wanting to hear about an opinion that Jeff could tell differences between a Onkyo 885 Vs a Onkyo 5508 might be ?
So your saying that Jeff & I could not tell a difference from a New York Strip steak eaten @ Sizzler Steak House from the same cut New York Strip steak eaten @ a Ruth Chris's Steak House??
Soo I can't the differences between 120 grit sand paper from 80 grit sand paper just from the feel of both with out qualification with hard data?

You completely missed the point. I'm saying that you as well as everyone else are subject to perceiving things that aren't objectively real. The Penn and Teller video is a perfect example. Those people tasted differences, yet it was a fact that the water wasn't objectively different.
Your example of the 120 grit vs 80 grit sandpaper doesn't apply, because they are in fact objectively different. As for your steak example, if you tasted two pieces from the identical steak, it's highly likely that you would pick the piece you were told came from Ruth Chris as tasting "better" than the piece you were told came from Sizzler. As I said, the mind is capable of perceiving differences where none exist.

No, but once you acknowledge that the mind can perceive differences where none exist, you have to acknowledge the necessity of ensuring that the factors that cause the mind to perceive differences where none objectively exist are removed. Otherwise, you cannot state with ANY confidence that what you perceived isn't simply in your mind.

No you missed the point . Yes I could tell the difference between same exact cut from the same exact steer because of the 2 very different methods that the Steak Houses use to cook the same steak.
As for sand paper example , how can 2 different models not be objectively different ? one 7 channels the other 9 . one has 24 bit DACS & the other has 32 bit DACS .one has Audyssey XT32 the other does not .The list goes on ..

If all you state is that you subjectively perceive a difference, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with are the people who state such differences are an objective fact. BTW, I'm glad you don't fall for the interconnect nonsense.

Your ability to miss the point is amazing. If it was two pieces cut from the same steak cooked by the same person at the same steakhouse, in other words if the ONLY difference is that you were told the two pieces were from a different steak house, I think you'd perceive differences.



I have no idea where you got the idea that I said there are no objective differences between 7 and 9 channels, or between room correction and no room correction. FYI, I have an Anthem AVM50V with ARC.

there you go making an assumption. No, I would not perceive differences ! as a well versed steak griller from my teens to the present I would tell you that you were trying to fooling me as both steaks were the same.
it's Odd that you'd use a couple of well know slight of hand experts & magicians as a valid scientific comparison
Anyone see the irony there ?

All I'm thinking about is a nice juicy medium rare steak.

See, that's your problem right there Flame on!

Me too, I am hungry

I was just trying to lighten the mood before the countdown to shut down begun.

I've seen that qualification made many times.

I'll join you.

That a particular behavior is prevalent does not condone it.

AJ

RobertR where in this post does Jeff state a fact ? plz point that part out to us ?
the "I must say " phrase sounds like a opinion to myself & he goes on to state that it's an observation as well , his observation...