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A call to all JVC users wishing to use the VIP 3D Theatre device - Page 3

post #61 of 188
5/29/11 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

The other issue here is you may be using too much duty cycle and you see ghosting because the panels don't refresh quick enough. The amount of depth in the image changes and when the separation between eyes is greater you can see more ghosting. I have to be down around 50-60% duty cycle to eliminate ghosting in these great depth of image scenes. Maybe you feel it shouldn't be that dim. Sorry to say it does need to be dim! Your duty cycle is too high and there is some ghosting. Get a high gain screen and lower the duty cycle.

This would explain why some people have problems and other don't. Also I agree with the power requirements. You must have a 5V USB power supply that can supply 1 Amp or 1000ma of current or else the emitter might flip polarity and do god knows what. I also found that lower current power supplies will work for a while and then things start to screw up.

power supplies are not a problem, i design them for a living. For screens I don't need any more I have 3 silver torus gains of 6, a home made silver PVC, grey wolf gain of 1.8 amongst others. The bottom line is you set the acer and watch minmum hastles. Try to use 60 hz projector for 3D a royal pain.
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post #62 of 188
5/29/11 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoss View Post

power supplies are not a problem, i design them for a living. For screens I don't need any more I have 3 silver torus gains of 6, a home made silver PVC, grey wolf gain of 1.8 amongst others. The bottom line is you set the acer and watch minmum hastles. Try to use 60 hz projector for 3D a royal pain.

Great! You mentioned you have a 2amp supply so not an issue. Plus you are seeing the same issues I see. The VIP box is supposed to be getting its sync timing from the frame rate it is sending to the projector. If the projector doesn't lock to that then you have drift and eventually a dropped frame. So it can't be the VIP box that is drifting. If the VIP had its own timing rate then I would say yes but it doesn't. The sync pulse is pulled directly from the frame rate sent to the display.
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post #63 of 188
5/30/11 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Great! You mentioned you have a 2amp supply so not an issue. Plus you are seeing the same issues I see. The VIP box is supposed to be getting its sync timing from the frame rate it is sending to the projector. If the projector doesn't lock to that then you have drift and eventually a dropped frame. So it can't be the VIP box that is drifting. If the VIP had its own timing rate then I would say yes but it doesn't. The sync pulse is pulled directly from the frame rate sent to the display.

Well we talked about disabling 24fps. Guess what I went into the menu and this was disabled already and I enabled it. Somehow I may have disasbled this from previous viewings in searching through the menus. I put the Hitachi PJ-TX 100 back in the system for viewing and adjusted for viewing with Resident Evil. I decided once the RF glasses were fine tuned I was going to avoid any changing and try to get through the entire movie. Viewing was looking like it was stable for quite a long time. When I usually take a break I put it to pause which I did a couple times but noticed I may be getting drift due to this. Instead I started to stop play and then restart which then looked like it was syncing up properly. Bottom line is it looks like this PJ is working satisfactorily with the displayer with 3 others to be retested. The reason I went back to this PJ is in Cloudy with the Chance of Meatballs I thought it had worked good and didn't understand the change from one viewing to another. For an older LCD this unit is good and I don't see motion blur.
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post #64 of 188
5/30/11 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoss View Post

Well we talked about disabling 24fps. Guess what I went into the menu and this was disabled already and I enabled it. Somehow I may have disasbled this from previous viewings in searching through the menus. I put the Hitachi PJ-TX 100 back in the system for viewing and adjusted for viewing with Resident Evil. I decided once the RF glasses were fine tuned I was going to avoid any changing and try to get through the entire movie. Viewing was looking like it was stable for quite a long time. When I usually take a break I put it to pause which I did a couple times but noticed I may be getting drift due to this. Instead I started to stop play and then restart which then looked like it was syncing up properly. Bottom line is it looks like this PJ is working satisfactorily with the displayer with 3 others to be retested. The reason I went back to this PJ is in Cloudy with the Chance of Meatballs I thought it had worked good and didn't understand the change from one viewing to another. For an older LCD this unit is good and I don't see motion blur.

Now that is strange! You have me thinking about my PS3 settings. I was told to turn off auto 24 but there is a forced 24p setting that I never tried. Right now 24p is turned off but I guess it still outputs 24p in 3D.
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post #65 of 188
5/30/11 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Now that is strange! You have me thinking about my PS3 settings. I was told to turn off auto 24 but there is a forced 24p setting that I never tried. Right now 24p is turned off but I guess it still outputs 24p in 3D.

I thought I read tha PS3 had issues the Sony BP's don't. One thing I know is using the pause resume feature to often can lead to problems. What threw me off is I use the pause feature to fine tune ghosting. Stop/restart is better and seems to work. As a matter of fact I was too fast on the stop/restart sequence and I got reverse stereo. I then stop waited a couple seconds for the menu to reappear and then restarted which then the polarity was correct. You might want to pick up a BR player to see if that makes any difference. I don't know where you live in Mass but CC in Waltham has several different 3D BR players and have a liberal return policy assuming your a member.
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post #66 of 188
5/30/11 at 9:14am
also forgot to credit the Bard for pointing out the resume problem and the start/stop solution although I did not need to go as far as removing the disc
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post #67 of 188
5/30/11 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoss View Post

I thought I read tha PS3 had issues the Sony BP's don't. One thing I know is using the pause resume feature to often can lead to problems. What threw me off is I use the pause feature to fine tune ghosting. Stop/restart is better and seems to work. As a matter of fact I was too fast on the stop/restart sequence and I got reverse stereo. I then stop waited a couple seconds for the menu to reappear and then restarted which then the polarity was correct. You might want to pick up a BR player to see if that makes any difference. I don't know where you live in Mass but CC in Waltham has several different 3D BR players and have a liberal return policy assuming your a member.

Funny I am using pause to adjust. But the last time I watched I just let it run for the entire IMAX movie in 3D and watched it drift in and out of sync. I hope I don't need another 3D player. I bought the PS3 for this and figured I could enjoy some 3D gaming. I will try forced 24p setting tonight.

Does skipping chapters cause sync drift and/or polarity flip? I think I tried chapter skips and didn't notice any polarity flips. The menus drift over time like the movie and flip polarity when a frame is dropped.
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post #68 of 188
5/30/11 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Funny I am using pause to adjust. But the last time I watched I just let it run for the entire IMAX movie in 3D and watched it drift in and out of sync. I hope I don't need another 3D player. I bought the PS3 for this and figured I could enjoy some 3D gaming. I will try forced 24p setting tonight.

Does skipping chapters cause sync drift and/or polarity flip? I think I tried chapter skips and didn't notice any polarity flips. The menus drift over time like the movie and flip polarity when a frame is dropped.

I have not skipped chapters other than getting to the beginning to restart and adjust the 3D image. I can't say without further viewing whether this affects the 3D image or not. I also can't get through a movie without some interruption. The one thing I did do if I suspected right or wrong that there was drift I stopped and restarted and all was well again. I recall reading somewhere that the PS3 had an issue with movies and not games. I tended to gloss over PS3 comments since I don't own one.
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post #69 of 188
5/30/11 at 10:45am
Newegg has the Benq600 3D ready PJ for 530 with coupon codes good through june 2. If I didn't have the acer I might have sprung for this. I have no complaints about the 3D picture of the Acer just it's ease of use. No lens shift,remote is chency, cycles through all inputs when searching for an input, and the need to refocus everytime the image size is changed.
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post #70 of 188
5/30/11 at 10:59am
The PS3 outputs in frame-packed format which by its very definition keeps left and right eye images in sync with each other. The drift is happening somewhere else. Sources do not drift. It's everything downstream that needs to stay synchronized with the sources. When you "lock" you are aligning with the source's clock signal.
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post #71 of 188
5/30/11 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokeySmoke View Post

The PS3 outputs in frame-packed format which by its very definition keeps left and right eye images in sync with each other. The drift is happening somewhere else. Sources do not drift. It's everything downstream that needs to stay synchronized with the sources. When you "lock" you are aligning with the source's clock signal.

That's what I have been saying but now Mkoss says he is seeing differences with settings on his player. Maybe the stop and restart is just resyncing before it drifts far enough out.
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post #72 of 188
5/30/11 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

That's what I have been saying but now Mkoss says he is seeing differences with settings on his player. Maybe the stop and restart is just resyncing before it drifts far enough out.

That could well be true. While stopping and starting are an annoyance it wasn't that often at least last night that I considered it a show stopper pun not intended. The previous night it was but I was using pause and resume and had 24P turned off. I would like to retry the sharp right now but it has a different throw and requires setup farther back from my other pj's. But when it was first set up what an image, not that I'm unhappy with Hitachi. More testing required.
All this frame locking,up conversion,flicker, response times of different pj's make 60 Hz more delicate in setting up.
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post #73 of 188
5/30/11 at 12:05pm
I agree it definitely takes some time to set up correctly, and everyone has different preferences... when finding the balance between flicker & brightness, some people will sacrifice the former, others the latter.

I guess I'm lucky with my setup... just to clarify: I can pause, ffwd, rew, chapter skip... & maintain polarity throughout. The only thing that switches L&R is when my player automatically resumes play on a reloaded disc.
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post #74 of 188
5/30/11 at 2:10pm
I couldn't wait and powered up everything. PS3 set to 24p same drift problem.

I am done tinkering until I take the projector down and tap off the RS1's Vsync. That will eliminate any drift. Then I'll have to deal with polarity filp if the glasses don't flip with the dropped frame.
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post #75 of 188
5/30/11 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post
I couldn't wait and powered up everything. PS3 set to 24p same drift problem.

I am done tinkering until I take the projector down and tap off the RS1's Vsync. That will eliminate any drift. Then I'll have to deal with polarity filp if the glasses don't flip with the dropped frame.
Did it take long to drift and did you stop and restart out of curiosity?
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post #76 of 188
5/30/11 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoss View Post
Did it take long to drift and did you stop and restart out of curiosity?
I am not calibrated to be in sync from the start right now so I can't say if a restart keeps the same polarity. The time it takes to drift seems to be the same all the time. Every couple minutes it a double image then a couple later it is in sync again. That's a guess I didn't time it.
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post #77 of 188
5/30/11 at 2:35pm
When I tap Vsync I shouldn't need any delay setting. Well maybe a little to eliminate any echo from the previous frame to reduce ghosting.
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post #78 of 188
5/30/11 at 2:37pm
I hope I can have the same result with one of my DLP's as with my Hitachi. I'm pretty sure the epson EX-70 will work like the Hitachi from what I recall from a previous viewing. I want to go with a polarity rotator and passive glasses so having a couple DLP's that work would be good.
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post #79 of 188
5/30/11 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoss View Post
I hope I can have the same result with one of my DLP's as with my Hitachi. I'm pretty sure the epson EX-70 will work like the Hitachi from what I recall from a previous viewing. I want to go with a polarity rotator and passive glasses so having a couple DLP's that work would be good.
Good luck with that! Every display has different timing if there is no frame lock. Even between different samples of the same model will have slightly different timing.
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post #80 of 188
5/30/11 at 6:08pm
I don't envy you guys... good luck with the vsync, Ronomy!
Post your results for the rest of us...
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post #81 of 188
5/31/11 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

I don't envy you guys... good luck with the vsync, Ronomy!
Post your results for the rest of us...

I am still torn on should if I do the mod or not. I still may have to deal with polarity inversion. Then I have an issue with the glasses being dim. The circular polarization blocks the light from the JVC. My screen retains polarization. If I look back through the glasses from the front the image is a lot brighter. It would be best if I just get a 3D ready projector. The image would be much brighter. Just wouldn't have the contrast ratio my JVC has. That's not ideal either as I sit around where the projector has to be and if I get a short throw projector it will hot spot real bad with my angular reflective Draper M2500. So I am screwed every which way.
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post #82 of 188
5/31/11 at 11:16am
Thread Starter 
I am just planning to buy a 3D projector at some point. My RS2 is almost ready for a bulb change, I figure another bulb or two and some 3D projectors that blow mine away in terms of contrast and maybe brightness will be reasonably priced. And I told myself when I bought the RS2 I didn't wanna upgrade until we have LED projectors where you don't have to replace lamps. I'm sure I'll stick with JVC, as DLPs still give me headaches, and at the time I didn't see a DLP or SXRD that rivaled my RS2 anyway.
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post #83 of 188
5/31/11 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

I am still torn on should if I do the mod or not. I still may have to deal with polarity inversion. Then I have an issue with the glasses being dim. The circular polarization blocks the light from the JVC. My screen retains polarization. If I look back through the glasses from the front the image is a lot brighter. It would be best if I just get a 3D ready projector. The image would be much brighter. Just wouldn't have the contrast ratio my JVC has. That's not ideal either as I sit around where the projector has to be and if I get a short throw projector it will hot spot real bad with my angular reflective Draper M2500. So I am screwed every which way.

Well you have till June 2nd to jump on the Benq special at Newegg. Just a 500 dollar investment in money instead of your time. I don't work for Benq by the way.
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post #84 of 188
5/31/11 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoss View Post

Well you have till June 2nd to jump on the Benq special at Newegg. Just a 500 dollar investment in money instead of your time. I don't work for Benq by the way.

Price would be $40 more.

It is white! My room is mostly black. Stick out like a sore thumb. Plus 54ft-L on my screen. Wow! Light canon for sure. Not sure the image would clear my center channel speaker. Tempting for that price but I am sure my screen would hot spot in the middle. I bet the 3D image would be a lot brighter than an Imax theater though!
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post #85 of 188
5/31/11 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoss View Post

Well you have till June 2nd to jump on the Benq special at Newegg. Just a 500 dollar investment in money instead of your time. I don't work for Benq by the way.

Will not work! It would either be on my lap or on my chest while reclined and the ceiling has a ceiling fan right where the projector would hang.

I wouldn't even get an RS40 with my setup because it isn't any brighter than my RS1 according to projector central and test reports confirm about the same light output. Then there is the bulb problem. Although I suppose that would still be my only option.
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post #86 of 188
5/31/11 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

I am just planning to buy a 3D projector at some point. My RS2 is almost ready for a bulb change, I figure another bulb or two and some 3D projectors that blow mine away in terms of contrast and maybe brightness will be reasonably priced. And I told myself when I bought the RS2 I didn't wanna upgrade until we have LED projectors where you don't have to replace lamps. I'm sure I'll stick with JVC, as DLPs still give me headaches, and at the time I didn't see a DLP or SXRD that rivaled my RS2 anyway.

Hey i hear you! I still love my RS1u. I got it right at the end of its production. The RS2 was just hitting the streets. Then the RS1x came out with the same electronics as in the RS2 but not the added contrast ratio. RS1u was discontinued at that time. In my long throw setup my contrast ratio is more than enough for me. I just put in a new bulb and Wow! Like new again. My Duo corrects the colors and just no urge to change a thing. I like to get several years out of my projector purchases. I am only at 3.5 years and only have 2200hrs on the projector. 3rd bulb.
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post #87 of 188
5/31/11 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Will not work! It would either be on my lap or on my chest while reclined and the ceiling has a ceiling fan right where the projector would hang.

This. ^

When oh when will someone come out with a 3d-capable projector for under $2k with either:

- Long throw
- Horiz lens shift
- Horiz keystone ?
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post #88 of 188
5/31/11 at 5:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

This. ^

When oh when will someone come out with a 3d-capable projector for under $2k with either:

- Long throw
- Horiz lens shift
- Horiz keystone ?

My only other option is the short throw's at 6.3 feet for 120 inch but my screen would most likely have a great big hot spot in the middle and it would be right in front of my center channel speaker.
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post #89 of 188
5/31/11 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

This. ^

When oh when will someone come out with a 3d-capable projector for under $2k with either:

- Long throw
- Horiz lens shift
- Horiz keystone ?

they already exists but their 60 hz.
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post #90 of 188
6/2/11 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

I don't envy you guys... good luck with the vsync, Ronomy!
Post your results for the rest of us...

OK! Decided to just do it and build the emitter driver for my RS1u. Ordered some of the parts tonight. Will use a JK flip flop with dual polarity outputs. Install a switch to change polarity. I'll tap off Vsync which is already passed through a gate. Probably just solder on to that output (actually a test point) and signal ground with a small coax to bring it out of the projector. The RF emitter will plug into my little circuit via a bulk head mounted female 3 pin mini din. I need to hit the local electronics store and get a small project box and project circuit card so I can build it. I have some extra 5 volt power supplies kicking around in work I can grab. Hopefully be up and running soon enough.

Ron
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