A call to all JVC users wishing to use the VIP 3D Theatre device - Page 4

How did you get schematics for your PJ? So far I don't need to crack open any of my units but I think I would have a hard time to get the schematics if I needed any. Good luck with your project.

I purchased the shop manual for my RS1u back when I first purchased the projector. It is the Vsync after the processor board that feeds the three color panels so this should work. Plus I'll have an easy way to change polarity. Debating how I will handle that part. Toggle switch or push button for now but if it happens enough I may have to come up with a way to change it remotely.

Ronomy, how is the mod coming?

Some parts have arrived but I need to hit the local electronics shop to find a small project box. I need some small toggle switches too. Just haven't had any time to work on it.

I'm happy to report that my JVC HD250 might be ok with frame locking. I watched 1 h 15 mins of Avatar with no problem. No offset in image, no drifting and no ghosting increased during watching. Also polarity didn’t reverse.

Can anyone confirm that after more than an hour in the movie, that means my HD250 is fine?

Pitou!

This is good news for some newer model JVC owners. It is posible that frame lock is not turned on but the timing is in sync with the VIP product. Every display will be slightly different. JVC did say that they don't support frame lock on any of the there projectors. My RS1 drifts but I tried directv and didn't see any frame drop. It may have been chapter skipping that changed polarity on Blurays. Still need to check on that...if i ever get any time.

Played around with chapter next/previous, FF, Rew, and it always stayed in sync.

I guess I'm lucky with my JVC then!

It also could mean that it is in frame lock since JVC doesn't write the software for their projectors they have no clue if frame lock or genlock is turned on or not. Maybe its just the projectors with Gennum processing that is not in frame lock. Maybe only the RS1 is not frame locked!

I understand. I hope Jonathan will be able to have clear answers from JVC about their product lines.

My answer was the JVC answer! Came from Jonathan but actually from the head of Engineering in the DILA division of JVC.

Maybe they said that so people wouldn't buy the VIP converters! Be happy Man! LOL

Especially since they sell 3D PJ already. I guess they want to push their own models instead and that would be understandable.

I am happy and wish you good luck with your circuit project!

Thank you! I have to pick up a few more items. I am sure it will work and I will have an easy way to flip polarity with the circuit. I'll get it working and it will always be in sync. The higher native contrast ratio with the JVC's just gives the image a lot of depth. I am sure it must look good for you. Have you tried tweaking with the Bit Cauldron program to fine tune it? If not you have to. It really works well.

Best to use a little delay and a lower duty cycle to eliminate all of the ghosting. The panels will retain a bit of the previous image so selecting a lower duty cycle like between 60 to 80% and then shift the glasses lens open time a little using delay you can eliminate that slight image from the previous frame. That is the trick to get the delay such that you eliminate ghosting and max out your duty cycle as much as possible so the image is not too dim.

Cheers,

Ron

Except that it uses the same processing chip as my RS1. BUT! There was that 3D setup with RS2's at some show way back when. Hard to say until somebody tries it.

Wasn't that a dual projector setup though? Lack of frame lock would be less of an issue in that case...

Would that also be true for a single projector and polarity rotator used in conjunction with passive glasses since it gets its sync from the output of the theater/displayer or does the same frame lock issue arise?

Both projectors would still need to be in sync and if one has slightly different timing than the other it wouldn't work.

Well, that's essentially what should happen with the Optoma 3DXL solution; when you run the signal through an hdmi splitter, there is nothing locking the two 3DXLs or projectors to each other. But the drift would be limited to what results from time of transmission from the source, 3:2 pulldown, etc.

I imagine this could result in some smearing & other artifacts, but you certainly wouldn't get to the point where the L/R views are reversed in a polarizing filter setup.

The same issue would arise, but in my thinking it would not arise (to a fatal degree, anyway) in a dual projector setup. See my post, above.

BTW, I don't know of anyone who has implemented a polarity rotator, I'm very curious as to feasability!

If you have a two-projector passive setup that was not frame locked you would end up with depth problems whenever anything pans. If the left projector was ahead of the right projector, for instance, during left to right pans everything would pop out of the screen, and vice-versa for the opposite direction. And since the sync would be drifting, the effect would be changing constantly. A single frame off during a pan would result in a huge depth difference for even moderate pan speeds.

All that being said, for static images there would be no effect at all.

Then how does optoma get around this? What keeps the two 3DXLs / projectors locked to each other?

There is a single source (blu-ray, for instance), and the signal is split before it even gets to the problematic projectors, so each projector in a dual setup is only getting either left or right eye views. So I don't see how the passive glasses polarity could ever flip, even with a drift of several frames. For that to happen, the lock would need to be lost at the player, or the splitter, and this would affect all attempts at dual projector setups.

Perhaps I am missing something in my thinking...?

If they're locked to the source, then they will be locked to each other.

You are correct that the glasses polarity will never flip. If they do, then the 3DXL is broken.

What I could see happening is video smearing/blurring as the frame drift between left & right views became too great; or uncomfortable "jumps" when camera edits occur (with one eye seeing the previous shot & the other seeing the new shot).

So there you go, Ronomy, no need to perform your mod... just spend $2000-$4000 extra on a two-pj setup!

You would never see smearing because each eye sees a different projector. Instead, you will see depth changes that were not intended, but only when the camera is moving from side to side. On fast camera moves it creates a "jello-like" effect because it's only the horizontal motion that causes problems. For vertical differences your eyes will automatically compensate.

If you're familiar with the CMOS camera rolling shutter effect, it's looks very similar.

I think we're talking about the same thing, I just didn't know what it was called. I imagine we will probably start hearing from dual-3DXL owners who hadn't anticipated this with certain projectors.

I can only imagine that the sensio processors & other pre-hdmi demuxers somehow addressed this potential issue?

So I see you are selling your projector! What do you plan to get to replace it?

Ron

You will still have to buy glasses and emitter for the RS40. I just finished a bathroom remodel in my house so I can focus on building the emitter driver for my RS1 now. If I can just get my RS1 in sync with the glasses I'll be happy enough with this for a while. The RS40 puts out about the same amount of lumens as my RS1 based on what i have seen in test reports. The higher wattage bulb doesn't seem to give you any more lumens after calibration.

I had a thought! My buddy has an RS1x which should have the same video processing card as your RS2/Pioneer. Maybe I can setup a test on his projector to see if it frame locks.