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Lav Madvr guide?? - Page 8

post #211 of 581
I already own cyberlink power DVD ultra 11.
Is there a link or guide how to use the cyberlink video decoder in a free player
Like mpc-hc or potplayer?

Do you also say that there is no reason for an ati user
To change his gpu for nvidia?


Sorry for so many questions
post #212 of 581
I can honestly say my next video card for my main HTPC is going to be an nVidia card unless something drastic happens by then. (I'm quite a ways away from buying a new card....I'm happy with my 5870). That being said, the AMD cards are fine as long as you know how to work around the unique issues. For us it was black levels which seem to be fixed in the latest drivers. For nVidia, you need to us custom resolutions in order to get RGB Full. Good times. Anyway, using the Cyberlink Video Decoder isn't too difficult. You need to register the CLCvd.ax file in your PDVD directory. Then you can add it to the external filters list in MPC-HC and set it to prefer. This next part is where a lot of people get hung up. Double click the Cyberlink Video Decoder entry in the MPC-HC external filters window to bring up the properties. Set it to HAM mode and click ok. I don't know who told me this next part, but, trust me, it works....close the options dialog and immediately drag a video into the MPC-HC window to start playing it. For whatever reason this allows HAM mode to stick. Although, if you go back into the Cyberlink Video Decoder properties again, it'll look like it didn't stick. The way you can tell is when a file is playing, right click the MPC-HC window, go to filters, hold control on the keyboard, and click the Cyberlink Video Decoder to get an extended properties page. It should list HAM mode being used.
post #213 of 581
Standalone bluray players vs madVR.
I'd say results depends on how good are YCbCr and RGB inputs in your display. Players use HDCP-encrypted YCbCr format and madVR uses RGB format. Those are different technologies though. IMO image presentation is different for YCbCr and RGB. Which one is better? Thats a pretty good question...
post #214 of 581
Yea, you bring up a very valid point. For my setup, madVR produces the best PQ but I can totally see that being completely dependent on your TV and what it's expecting. The problem is, that's almost impossible to know. For instance, is your TV internally converting the YCbCr to RGB? Or vice versa. One has no real way of knowing that.
post #215 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

For instance, is your TV internally converting the YCbCr to RGB?

No doubts here since TVs are RGB native anyway. From that point RGB input should be better. In my TV RGB input provides very informative and detailed image. But can I say it provides more natural image than YCbCr input? No, I can't unfortunately. Thats why I'm not sure that RGB presentation is best strategy in my case.
post #216 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaq View Post
No doubts here since TVs are RGB native anyway. From that point RGB input should be better. In my TV RGB input provides very informative and detailed image. But can I say it provides more natural image than YCbCr input? No, I can't unfortunately. Thats why I'm not sure that RGB presentation is best strategy in my case.
Yea, it's definitely a very complex issue. My Sony seems to prefer RGB and that's connected to my AMD. My Samsung....I'm not 100% sure what it seems to like, but, I don't have a lot of choice in the matter since I can't get YCbCr to work on that machine. (I'm positive it's the Pio receiver that's causing all the problem there). It gets RGB, as well, and I have zero complaints about the PQ that I get. MOST people wouldn't even bother screwing with a bedroom setup as much as I have but we like watching movies in bed on the weekends so we can stay up later. At the end of the day as long as you're happy with the PQ you get, that's what counts. I am, for the most part, with mine. Eventually the Sony is going to get replaced with a more modern TV...probably one that does Three Deeeeeee which seems to be all the rage. Yawn. But I do want a slightly larger screen and one that's capable of 24Hz which my Sony isn't. Then I have to revisit all this nonsense all over again and calibrate yet another TV. Awesome.
post #217 of 581
samuil thank you very much for the instructions
this was very helpfull
and i have to admit that works perfectly
i think it should make many ATI + MAdVR users happy
post #218 of 581
No problem at all. Glad I could help.
post #219 of 581
Okay guys LAV + Madvr + MPC-HC along with LAV CUVID has been published. Its located in the "Paid Guides 8" tab which I am reserving for more advanced features.

Many thanks to jbcain for helping with the tutorial. For those of you who subscribe to my blog take a look at it and let me know what you think.

Cheers.
post #220 of 581
Assassin, is it possible for you to put your guide in this forum? So, majority of members will get help from that. Also everybody will be able to brainstorm on it and suggest more settings. Hope you will do this..Thank you!
post #221 of 581
key word, paid
post #222 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcain View Post

key word, paid

Madvr, mpc hc, ffdshow everything is free, but the guide is paid. Don't tell me that it needs to invest time to write guide in free forum. I think madashi must have spent more time creating madvr but still it's free. I think HTPC is the only section where paid things are getting advertised for free. I understand that testing of new devices need money and I fully support rene n assassin for that but guide for free software should be available for free. That's just my thinking. But still assassin can advertise his paid blog n his business for free on this forum.
post #223 of 581
i dont make the rules
post #224 of 581
Here is a free guide. I don't use everything exactly like in the guide, but it was pretty good overall for learning the software etc.

http://www.homecinema-hd.com/intro_en.html
post #225 of 581
I want To make it clear. We have two kind of conversations one in the player and one in the display.
That's the main difference between an htpc and a standalone player.

When we have a bluray disk*
The data is 4:2:0
The standalone makes it 4:2:2 and the tv makes it rgb?

when we use htpc with this setup
Madvr inputs 4:2:0 and exports fullrgb . This way the PQ depends on tv capabilities on displaying the native rgb?

Is that the reason that calibrated *pc displays look better than HDTVs when we use pc for player?

Are my statements right?
post #226 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

I already own cyberlink power DVD ultra 11.
Is there a link or guide how to use the cyberlink video decoder in a free player
Like mpc-hc or potplayer?

Do you also say that there is no reason for an ati user
To change his gpu for nvidia?

Using CyberLink Video Decoder of PDVD11 outside PDVD11 is straightforward: register CLCvd.ax in the folder C:\\Program Files\\CyberLink\\PowerDVD11\\Common\\VideoFilter by regsvr32.exe. Then add it to the player you use. Similarly you can use CLVsd.ax = CyberLink Video/SP Decoder for DVD playback. Open "Properties" of CyberLink Video Decoder *within the player* (because the settings are kept in the registry for each player), where you can select three decoding mode: software (CPU), DXVA (UVD/VP, a dedicated decoder block of GPU), HAM (stream processors of GPU). DXVA does not work with madVR. HAM will reduce the CPU usage by half.

The only reason to change to NVIDIA is because of LAV CUVID Decoder that supports hardware deinterlacing (and hardware decoding as well) under madVR.
post #227 of 581
Rene thanks for your reply but samuil has replied earlier.
I would like to answer my last statements as long as you are an htpc pro.
Is that possible madvr to achieve color conversions equal to best standalone bluray players like oppo?
That Depends on madvr or only tv's capability to import fullrgb?
post #228 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

That's the main difference between an htpc and a standalone player.

When we have a bluray disk*
The data is 4:2:0
The standalone makes it 4:2:2 and the tv makes it rgb?

YCbCr 4:2:2 (or 4:4:4?) > RGB. As long as HDMI doesn't support 4:2:0 and displays are RGB native at final image presentation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

when we use htpc with this setup
Madvr inputs 4:2:0 and exports fullrgb . This way the PQ depends on tv capabilities on displaying the native rgb?

Right. RGB input should be better than YCbCr input (meaning less convertions), but who knows how does it work really. Personally, if I set my LCD's HDMI input to RGB I always have Desktop contrast/brightness screwed no matter if videodriver is set to YCbCr or RGB. Thats starts me thinking that RGB input in my TV doesn't provide correct RGB. Also, most natural picture I got from TMT over YCbCr. But I gave up on trying damned TMT work stable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

Is that the reason that calibrated *pc displays look better than HDTVs when we use pc for player?

Are my statements right?

IMO the point here is:
1)you have to check which input is better in your display: YCbCr or RGB. "Better" means more natural. We don't want "great" sound and picture, we want natural sound and picture. As close to natural as it possible with existing equipment.
2)based on results make your HD video presentation strategy:
- RGB (madVR, FullRGB al the way);
- YCbCr (TMT, PDVD, standalone player).

Are my statements right?
post #229 of 581
Qaq thank you for this in-depth analysis.
So The only way to have the most accurate results
Is to try a lot of different setups to discover what our tv is capable to do.
I suppose that changing Hdmi input setings from rgb to ycbcr and vice versa
is something I have to find in my tv's manual ?
post #230 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

So The only way to have the most accurate results Is to try a lot of different setups to discover what our tv is capable to do.

Not too mach really.
If your HTPC setup is HDCP compliant, you can set PC and TV to YCbCr 4:4:4 and expect perfect YCbCr quality audition with TMT, PDVD.
No matter if your HTPC setup is HDCP compliant or not, you can set PC and TV to FullRGB and expect perfect RGB quality audition with MPC-HC/madVR.
It's good to check it with some movie series (say "Pirates Of The Caribbean"). This way you're checking image presentation differences in setups and not in movies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

I suppose that changing Hdmi input setings from rgb to ycbcr and vice versa. is something I have to find in my tv's manual ?

Mine has nothing about RGB/YCbCr. Based on message boards researches and personal experience I've found that HDMI input:PC gives RGB and Black level:High gives 0-255, so those both give me FullRGB.
Also, it's good to see photos in different setups to decide which one gives more real image presentation.
post #231 of 581
A more "natural" picture sounds like its using dynamic contrast on YCbCr input and not on RGB. On my TV, i can configure that for all input formats, and don't really see a difference between RGB or YCbCr.

As always, this is very dependent on your TV.
post #232 of 581
Nev Does your tv has menu for changing input format
Or you just change the settings in nvidia control panel?
post #233 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

A more "natural" picture sounds like its using dynamic contrast on YCbCr input and not on RGB.

I always disable all that crap and make additional check with DXVAChecker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

On my TV, i can configure that for all input formats

What exactly do you configure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

As always, this is very dependent on your TV.

Thats the main point. IMO more attention and stats is needed here. I don't want to buy some new "killer" TV and find it has "broken" RGB again. Or I just have to give up on RGB and look for YCbCr HDCP-encrypted solutions.
post #234 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

don't really see a difference between RGB or YCbCr.

My statements based on that one of those is closer to native and provides less lossy convertions. From this point YUV and RGB just can't be similar in image presentation. Except one thing: presentation itself is so bad so the difference is just lost.
post #235 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

Nev Does your tv has menu for changing input format
Or you just change the settings in nvidia control panel?

The TV changes automatically based on what input it gets, otherwise the image would be screwed up anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaq View Post

I always disable all that crap and make additional check with DXVAChecker.

I meant in the TV itself, not those features in the GPU.
post #236 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

I meant in the TV itself, not those features in the GPU.

I always check TV settings very carefully and set them to neutral. I didn't even try that "RealCinema" feature yet. So "TV's auto adjustment" is wrong statement here.
post #237 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspatil View Post

Madvr, mpc hc, ffdshow everything is free, but the guide is paid. Don't tell me that it needs to invest time to write guide in free forum. I think madashi must have spent more time creating madvr but still it's free. I think HTPC is the only section where paid things are getting advertised for free. I understand that testing of new devices need money and I fully support rene n assassin for that but guide for free software should be available for free. That's just my thinking. But still assassin can advertise his paid blog n his business for free on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sspatil View Post

Assassin, is it possible for you to put your guide in this forum? So, majority of members will get help from that. Also everybody will be able to brainstorm on it and suggest more settings. Hope you will do this..Thank you!

We will just have to agree to disagree.

I just don't have the time to create and maintain dozens of guides for free. I wish I did but I don't.

I made my free hardware guide and I (and renethx for that matter) found out quickly that people aren't willing to donate to you for your time and expertise on a voluntary basis. Also the AVS Forum servers/software can't handle the size and complexity of my guides anyway. I found this out the hard way.

So yes this is a free forum and yes these are free pieces of software but so what? If you want to purchase the guide then you can. If you don't want to then don't. But I am not going to create a free guide like I did with the hardware guide and not get compensated for it. And I am not charging people for these pieces of software.

Actually you should encourage people to make more paid guides. Because imo the free guides get abandoned early and often because it simply is not worth your time to add to and maintain them.

AVS is riddled with dozens of these so called "free guides" that were abandoned likely for these reasons long ago.
post #238 of 581
Thats a silly reasoning.

By that logic, i should sell my software so i stay motivated to work on it in the future? How did Open Source ever come into existence?
If you think that everyone should charge for their software, well, just donate instead!
I have gotten quite generous donations in the past, not talking strictly about DirectShow things (only put up the donation button last week), but other projects before. Sure, not every user pays you the $20, but getting a donation for your work is much more rewarding, IMHO!

There are many people that do this not because of money, rather just because they like doing it.
The only problem with this is that users are typically very entitled, and even though they didn't pay you, they still expect you to fix all of their issues immediately - this can piss certain people off. However, if you do charge money, i can only imagine how users will be worse (and actually have a right to expect some kind of response from you).
post #239 of 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

Thats a silly reasoning.

By that logic, i should sell my software so i stay motivated to work on it in the future? How did Open Source ever come into existence?
If you think that everyone should charge for their software, well, just donate instead!
I have gotten quite generous donations in the past, not talking strictly about DirectShow things (only put up the donation button last week), but other projects before. Sure, not every user pays you the $20, but getting a donation for your work is much more rewarding, IMHO!

There are many people that do this not because of money, rather just because they like doing it.
The only problem with this is that users are typically very entitled, and even though they didn't pay you, they still expect you to fix all of their issues immediately - this can piss certain people off. However, if you do charge money, i can only imagine how users will be worse (and actually have a right to expect some kind of response from you).

Not silly at all.

I initially made my hardware guide (and still do) for free. And it was - at first - really fun to do.

But then it actually became a lot of work to maintain it. I finally put a paypal button on there because I had thoughts of abandoning it. After the paypal button I got a few donations (24 total to be exact over a 6 month period - so about 4 per month).

Renethx has had similar experiences and also charges for his very excellent guide. Personally I think it is worth more than what he charges.

So what you do is your business. If you don't want to charge then that is your prerogative. My prerogative is different and I simply can't devote time to this for just "fun".

And one other thing if you have ever perused through the forums at AVS is I bend over backwards to help out people on a routine basis. I always have.

BTW this is from Renethx's thread. I have had the exact same experience...
Quote:


Why do I ask a donation? Maintaining the guide consists of
Research latest hardware components;
Acquire key hardware components and do lots of experiments;
Write the information obtained in a readable form, that requires lots of time, meditation and inspiration (not kidding).
Among them the most difficult part is the second part because it involves lots of money ($1000 or more per month, not kidding, I consider $1000 is the minimum amount to maintain and keep the guide up to date) and currently it relies heavily on the donations. So please consider making a donation, as much as you can afford, if you think the guide is helpful and want to see it updated for some time to come.

BTW the amount of donations in 2010 is
October 16 2010 - November 15 2010: $60
September 16 2010 - October 15 2010: $85
August 16 2010 - September 15 2010: $145
This is good enough to buy a motherboard per month, but nothing more. This guide is going to die sooner or later if this continues.
post #240 of 581
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspatil View Post

Madvr, mpc hc, ffdshow everything is free, but the guide is paid. Don't tell me that it needs to invest time to write guide in free forum. I think madashi must have spent more time creating madvr but still it's free. I think HTPC is the only section where paid things are getting advertised for free. I understand that testing of new devices need money and I fully support rene n assassin for that but guide for free software should be available for free. That's just my thinking. But still assassin can advertise his paid blog n his business for free on this forum.

Why should someone take the time to research how to set it all up for you? You want a guide because this info is not readily available in one place. But you want someone else to do the work for you of putting it all together.

If you feel a guide should be here you should make one.
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