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Official harman kardon 1565,1650,2650,3650 thread - Page 2

post #31 of 189
Anyone have any hands-on feed back on the avr1650? Looking at the <400 price range for the best quality in build and sound, and I'm driving myself crazy. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
post #32 of 189
Mosura,
look for a clear-out on last years 3600 - It is a better option than any of the new models, and can be found right around 400.
post #33 of 189
Can't seem to find one for less than 500 online, but I see the 2600 going for 350ish. I'm sure the price will drop again on the 3600 so I can wait. Thanks for the response, and if you think of any other worthy brands and models please let me know.
post #34 of 189
Finding a 3600 for $400 will be a hard feat... I happened to be in the right place at the right time to snag mine, but I would guess in a store even for an open box your looking at about $450-500... I saw an open box at Best Buy when I was visiting SC over thanksgiving, it was a 3600 for $550

Now, Recently within the last few days Best Buy was selling all HK receivers at over 50% off. Could of snagged the 3600 for about $500 new, and the 3650 was selling for $575. Keep your eyes peeled.
post #35 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosura1 View Post

Anyone have any hands-on feed back on the avr1650? Looking at the <400 price range for the best quality in build and sound, and I'm driving myself crazy. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Crutchfield currently has all the HK AVRs at $150 off. At that price they're an OK buy.

Amazon has them for the same price. They also have the 2600 for $350. Which would be a much better deal than the 1650.

I know the 3600 had a firmware upgrade to allow 3d, not sure if the 2600 did as well. That's if 3D through your AVR is important.

I have the AVR 1600 which has been rock solid. Onecall has it for $229.

One thing I like about the HK is they're easy to setup, allow for independent crossover for L/R C and surrounds.

Gene
post #36 of 189
Thank you for the insight and pricing locations. Since brands like Arcam and NAD are out of my financial range at this time, HK seems to provide a higher level of sound quality at a midrange price point.

Great community here, I'll make sure to pay it forward.
post #37 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Crutchfield currently has all the HK AVRs at $150 off. At that price they're an OK buy.

Amazon has them for the same price. They also have the 2600 for $350. Which would be a much better deal than the 1650.

I know the 3600 had a firmware upgrade to allow 3d, not sure if the 2600 did as well. That's if 3D through your AVR is important.

I have the AVR 1600 which has been rock solid. Onecall has it for $229.

One thing I like about the HK is they're easy to setup, allow for independent crossover for L/R C and surrounds.

Gene

The 2600 firmware has been updated to HDMI 1.4, go to www.harmankardon.com and download it to USB..

Just my $0.02...
post #38 of 189
Just a quick question; any reason to go with the avr2600 over the Onkyo txnr609? The networking abilities (wireless) are an attractive option. I've read reviews and stats, just looking for some inside information. Thanks.
post #39 of 189
The 2600 has the better GUI IMO and it uses Dolby Volume which is nice.
post #40 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

The 2600 has the better GUI IMO and it uses Dolby Volume which is nice.

Just read your comparative review in the other thread and I think I'm sold. Thanks for responding here and for doing the leg-work for the rest of us.
post #41 of 189
I picked up a 2650 for just under $550 and am in love with this receiver! It replaced a pioneer 1018 which I was never really thrilled with. I can't believe how much of an upgrade this is! It literally sounds like I got brand new speakers and the detail and clarity is amazing even at low volume compared to the poineer.

I am having an issue with my cable box. I had to change the options on the box from dolby digital to 2 channel stereo or else it just puts out a clicking noise. Not sure what I'm losing out on by doing this. Was going to try an optical audio cable but I would rather run everything through HDMI.

I tried to find a firmware update for the receiver but it doesn't look like any are out yet.
post #42 of 189
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgcabby View Post

I picked up a 2650 for just under $550 and am in love with this receiver! It replaced a pioneer 1018 which I was never really thrilled with. I can't believe how much of an upgrade this is! It literally sounds like I got brand new speakers and the detail and clarity is amazing even at low volume compared to the poineer.

I am having an issue with my cable box. I had to change the options on the box from dolby digital to 2 channel stereo or else it just puts out a clicking noise. Not sure what I'm losing out on by doing this. Was going to try an optical audio cable but I would rather run everything through HDMI.

I tried to find a firmware update for the receiver but it doesn't look like any are out yet.

I had really bad video drop outs with my 3600 untill I forced the cable box to output 1081i 0 now no problems. Great sound piece of equipment!
post #43 of 189
I ended up purchasing the Onkyo HTRC 360 for 298. Probably sacrificed some sound quality from the HK, but the networking features are superb. Very happy with the sound, gui and features overall.
post #44 of 189
post #45 of 189
I picked up a 3650 for $570 last week off amazon! they are now $799. it's replacing an old Onkyo and so far I love it.

one problem I'm having is with the remote and hoping someone can point me in the right direction. also if this is the wrong place to post this forgive me and move it if needed.

I have directv. the supplied codes were 309, 310, & 314. 309 and 310 would turn the sat box on and off but that was it. I think the numbers worked but none of the menu, dvr functions etc worked. using 314 everything worked except none of the buttons became the "guide" button. so I tried to "teach" a button to become the guide button using the learning function. the remote flashed three times like it worked but it did not. tried multiple times with the same result. I then reset the remote and did not enter the code and tried to teach it everything for the dtv remote. nothing worked! I tried teaching using all three codes, teaching again etc and again nothing worked!

I know I am doing it correctly because I "taught" the remote for my oppo dvd player and my wdtv box. for some reason nothing can be taught for the DTV box. I have an email in to HK but haven't heard back yet.

I would even accept a work around of another way to access the guide feature (through the menu or something) but after speaking with DTV there doesn't seem to be a way. the old menu I'm pretty sure you could access the guide from there but not with the new menu.

so at this point if I can't get it to work I'll have to buy a universal remote that I know will work. we watch using the guide all the time so we have to have this feature!

perhaps there are other codes that may work? I tried 30x, 3xx etc. this still doesn't explain why it can't be taught from the dtv remote (which is in IR mode btw).
post #46 of 189
I have been in AV test mode for the last two months.

Tested the following receivers

RC260
RC270
NR709
HK AVR 3600
HK AVR 3650
RX-A810
RX-A2000
and soon to have a NR809

The one receiver out of all of these that sounds the cleanest is the AVR 3650. It has to be one of the most musical AVR's I have ever owned. Great power to drive my KEF IQ's and extremely detailed and smooth presentation compared to all of the other receivers i tested in my home above. I had been using an sr606 for about a year or two and recently sold it and started off with the 3650 and what a difference in sonic quality across the board.

My biggest problem is the 3650 has absolutely no features. Minimal sound modes and minimal ability to tweak them. The EQ calibration tool is a complete joke and you are better off not using it at all. But my oh my the musical presentation is amazing.

I think the onkyo receivers have better channel separation for watching movies but not one of the receivers above comes close to the sonic fidelity and smooth presentation of the HK 3650 for music. Night and day difference. Surprisingly, I found the Aventage line to be the harshest sounding of the bunch.

Not saying I am going to keep the 3650 but out of all the receivers above it is still the one sitting under my TV and that says a lot considering it is about as bare bones as you can get compared to all of the others.
post #47 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

The 3650 has:
a. 2 More HDMI inputs, (6)
b. Power rated differently
c. Network connectivity
d. No Pre-Outs
e. No Bridge III included
f. Weighs less

HK has totally changed their AVR development team, the original team based in the USA had extensive experience (>200 years) in the development of AVRs..
Last year, the USA AVR development team was disbanded and a new team based in China hired..

The new 50 series AVRs have had certain technical/component overdesigns deleted to be more price-competitive..
How well these models perform still needs to be proven..

Just my $0.02..


Does anyone have any links or other information to back this up? My first a/v receiver was HK, and after having a bad experience with an Onkyo the HK 2650 looks pretty good! But the statement above makes me worry....
post #48 of 189
I have no idea about any changing of the guard at H/K. I have owned the avr 240 several years ago and it was rock solid. The new 3650, although very feature limited easily sounds better than the 240.

If you look at my above post you can tell I am VERY impressed with the sound quality of the 3650 in comparison to all of the other receivers I tested. I am not sure how H/K rates power but compared to the 709 and 120 wpc a2000 it played louder and clearer than both. I could not get it to distort at very loud volume levels.

I wanted to post again to ensure that anyone who wants a great musical AVR, this is IT as far as I am concerned within the 500-1000 price range. If you need all of the other bell and whistles today's AVRs offer then look elsewhere.

It has no preamp outs, not real usable network features, is not THX certified and has very limited DSP opions. If you don't care about that and simiply want good sound you can't go wrong with this. I may sound like a salesman at this point but it is just an really great sounding AVR.

I have been running the 3650 through it's paces for almost a month now and have had no technical issues with it at all. Very solid and nicely built.

Tomorrow I will be getting an Onk TX NR809 and do some direct comparisons. If it does not move closer to sounding as good as the HK then I will stay with the HK, if it sounds good overall in comparison, I will keep it as I would like to have some of those other network features and tweak friendly features the Onkyos have. Man if H/K would just start adding more features and get more in sync with what it's competition is doing they would start selling some units.

Once thing is for certain, they have always and still know how to make a great sounding AMP.
post #49 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiotypE View Post

I have no idea about any changing of the guard at H/K. I have owned the avr 240 several years ago and it was rock solid. The new 3650, although very feature limited easily sounds better than the 240.

If you look at my above post you can tell I am VERY impressed with the sound quality of the 3650 in comparison to all of the other receivers I tested. I am not sure how H/K rates power but compared to the 709 and 120 wpc a2000 it played louder and clearer than both. I could not get it to distort at very loud volume levels.

I wanted to post again to ensure that anyone who wants a great musical AVR, this is IT as far as I am concerned within the 500-1000 price range. If you need all of the other bell and whistles today's AVRs offer then look elsewhere.

It has no preamp outs, not real usable network features, is not THX certified and has very limited DSP opions. If you don't care about that and simiply want good sound you can't go wrong with this. I may sound like a salesman at this point but it is just an really great sounding AVR.

I have been running the 3650 through it's paces for almost a month now and have had no technical issues with it at all. Very solid and nicely built.

Tomorrow I will be getting an Onk TX NR809 and do some direct comparisons. If it does not move closer to sounding as good as the HK then I will stay with the HK, if it sounds good overall in comparison, I will keep it as I would like to have some of those other network features and tweak friendly features the Onkyos have. Man if H/K would just start adding more features and get more in sync with what it's competition is doing they would start selling some units.

Once thing is for certain, they have always and still know how to make a great sounding AMP.

Thanks for your response, it's encouraging. I become very salesman like when I get excited about a new component or something too!

The 2650 is what I'm looking hard at. It'll be used 90% for TV, movies (SD&HD), AppleTV, and NetFlix, and 10% for music.

I'm actually okay with its feature set because I've got other things in the rack to compliment. I'm looking for reliability (which my AVR320 has provided for 10+ years), good surround sound processing, dynamic volume (set and forget), and good power.

How has the Dolby Volume worked out for you?

I wish there was a local store that stocked them so I could listen to it, but in Anchorage, AK we are pretty much stuck (today stuck in more new snow).
post #50 of 189
Dolby Vollume does exactly what it was intended. It equalizes the speakers and dynamics in material very well and makes listening to movies and shows where there might be a lot of background noise much better/clearer. I turn it off most of the time as I like to hear the dynamics as intended but it is a very nice feature.

The video chip in the 3650 does an OUTSTANDING job of cleaning up source material. It makes HD look HD. Suprisingly, it seems to upscale and clean up source material better than the current Onkyos which are using more current chips in them. It is a noticable improvment when comparing the two.

Update: After a direct comparison between the 3650 and the Onkyo 809 the H/K still handles music noticably better. Don't get me wrong the 809 sounds pretty good but my overall feeling is that Onkyo sounds much harsher than the H/K amp in the same price range, especially when playing at volume. I was actually hoping the Onkyo would sound better because, honesly, I would like to have pre-amp outs and a decent network package but sound comes first. This H/K has tested well against 8 other models over the last month.

I read a lot of posts about H/Ks being feature limited and that they are not as much bang for your buck. I am learning very quickly that "bang for your buck" is relative. If quailty sound is your priority than this reciever has more bang for the buck than any model I have tested in it's price range. Listening to DTS When hell freezes over or some of my other Surround sound music DVDs is a joy with this new HK. There is something about the AMPS dynamic capabilities that puts it over the top. The sound is warm and clean, well seperated and airy. I guess the best way to describe it is that all of the other recievers I have tested sound compressed by comparison. The H/K is the only one I have tested that pulls all of the elements together for a really nice listening experience.

I am running KEF IQ series speakers so perhaps my positive reviews are releated to how well this AVR matches to my speakers.
post #51 of 189
Great review. I am still tickled pink by my 2650, the best HT purchase I have ever made. Seeing the review on the 3650 makes me wonder if im missing out on anything with my 2650. My average volume is at -26db and rarely goes over -10db so I'm guessing I don't need the extra power.
post #52 of 189
I current have AVR 745, which was the top of the line back then.

Looking to upgrade. So many people around here say that 3600 is better 3650. Why?
I don't care about the analogue pre-out or in. What are differences between 3600 and 3650?

I do like the switched power out on the 3600, I use it to control my DVD players, power woofer, etc.
post #53 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRIS650 View Post

I current have AVR 745, which was the top of the line back then.

Looking to upgrade. So many people around here say that 3600 is better 3650. Why?
I don't care about the analogue pre-out or in. What are differences between 3600 and 3650?

I do like the switched power out on the 3600, I use it to control my DVD players, power woofer, etc.

The 3600's amplifier section is more robust, with a larger power supply and greater secondary capacitance. Though less muscular, the 3650 still shares the same amplifier topology as the 3600, which has been relatively unchanged for SEVERAL generations within the 1/2/3 series.

The bridge III ipod dock (which allows audio, images, and HD video playback from ipod/iphones) is included with the 3600, but optional with the 3650.
The 3600 offers more analog inputs, a 6/8 channel direct input, 8 channel pre-outs, more digital inputs, a LOW amp switched outlet, an A-Bus multizone connection (but requires an A-bus 24VDC power adapter unlike previous generation HKs), and an IR carrier output (to connect an IR blaster)

The 3650 did add several features over the 3600;
Network Playback + Internet Radio
USB playback (MP3/WMA)
2 additional HDMI inputs (with one conveniently on front panel)
Audio return for HDMI
RS-232 control support (though HCG support has no definitive info for the control codes as of yet)
A 12VDC trigger output (but no switched outlet)
DPLIIz support (still 7.1, but ability to re-assign SB amps as front height channels)

Both are HDMI 1.4a and support 3D
With HDMI the industry standard, the additional HDMI ports are likely welcome in favor of the extra digital and analog inputs. The same can be said of the 3600 vs its predecessor.
Also, with increasing popularity of 'smart' TVs, the 3650's HDMI audio return channel makes things easier with a single HDMI connection between the (compatible) TV and receiver even when using the TV as the audio source.


Note: Both the 3600, and even more so the 3650, would be a BIG step down from the 745's power amplifiers. The 7550HD (discontinued, but refurbs are available from HK) would be the comparable replacement/successor to the 745 and is even slightly more powerful. Both flagship HK 7 series models.
The 3600 and 3650 also have less audio processing capability, with a much less sophisticated EQ system than the 745 and 7550 and inability to post-process/layer Logic 7 onto 5.1 multichannel streams. The 745/7550 support TWO independent subwoofer outputs.

The 7550 offers the power of the 745 with the newer functionality of the 3600 and 3650. Despite being a couple years old, several of the new features for the 3650 trickled down from the 7550 - e.g. Network+Internet Radio, USB playback, RS-232, etc. The 7550 can also view still images over the network and USB connections which the 3650 does not.
Like the 3600, the 7550HD features Dolby Volume, and 4 HDMI 1.4a inputs with 3D and DTS-HD/True-HD decoding but no HDMI audio return. The Bridge dock (II) is also included.

Hope this helps
post #54 of 189
wow, I feel like upgrade to 7550 then. What will I lose from going for 7550, instead of 3600 or 3650?

I know it won't have ARC... no audio feedback.

What else do I lose?

What do I gain?
post #55 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRIS650 View Post

wow, I feel like upgrade to 7550 then. What will I lose from going for 7550, instead of 3600 or 3650?

I know it won't have ARC... no audio feedback.

What else do I lose?

What do I gain?

As stated at the end of my last post, the 7550HD, like the 3600, does not support ARC - other than that, there would be no loss compared to the 3650 when it comes to features as those new to the 3650 were already used on the 7550HD except PLIIz. It also has two less HDMI ports (4 vs 6) than the 3650.

So, loss vs 3600: None. Loss vs 3650: No ARC, two less HDMI, cannot reassign SB as front heights for DPLIIz support.

Day to day operation is the same with any, as they share the same GUI menu setup which first appeared with AVR254/354. It is very easy to use and navigate.

What you gain:
A LOT of power with the 7550, which is rated with an HCC current spec of 60amps like your 745, where as the 3600 and 3650 are rated at 35amps. It's dual secondary power supply is huge, along with 180% more secondary capacitance than the 3650 and 150% more than the 3600.
You will hardly be gaining any power over your AVR745, but you won't be losing any! It is hard to compare the wattage specs, as the 3650 uses a less accurate/more inflated rating at higher distortion for better numbers on paper. Just looking at the product weights gives you an idea of their capability, 44lbs for the 7550 vs 31.5 for the 3600 and 27.5 for the 3650.

As mentioned before, the 7550 like the 745 has significantly more DSP resources allowing for a much better EQ (EZSet/EQ II, which was actually developed by Harman) with significantly better low frequency correction, dual independent subwoofers, and ability to store two listening positions.
Like the 745, the 7550 also can post process/layer the Logic 7 surround modes on multichannel digital streams not only to create a 7.1/7.2 presentation but also improved channel steering. It is very impressive, and the 7550 even adds the ability to layer L7 onto 5.1 DTSHD/TrueHD. The 3600/3650 can only apply logic 7 to 2 channel analog or 2.0 PCM (also applies to all previous HK 1/2/3 series AVRs w/ L7)
Besides this, the 7550 has many more analog and digital connections, as well as the 6/8 channel direct input WITH bass management (unlike the 3600's 6/8 channel input) The 7550 also supports still image playback over the network connection and USB unlike the 3650, though this is a trivial feature.

The remote is similar between the three, but with an LCD screen on the 7550's to make operation and setup much easier (plus a much larger built-in code library) None are as good as the 745's Harmony-clone TC30 remote, however.


A view of the back panels for comparison;

3650;


3600;


7550;



There really is no comparison, the 7550 was HK's most recent flagship AVR, with an MSRP nearly triple that of the 3600 and 3650. Do keep in mind that the refurb 7550s are selling for nearly double the current closeout/street prices of the 3600.

You should read over the AVR 7550 thread in this forum, lots of great info and discussion between owners.
post #56 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRIS650 View Post

wow, I feel like upgrade to 7550 then. What will I lose from going for 7550, instead of 3600 or 3650?

I know it won't have ARC... no audio feedback.

What else do I lose?

What do I gain?

See dRock's thread for specific feature differences..

The primary positioning of the 7550HD/760 was the top of the HK AVR lineup.
And its audio processor is about 4x that of the 3650, the 7550HD uses (2) TI and the 3650 uses (2) Cirrus Logic 1 is just for Dolby Volume. Thats why the 7550HD/760 can simply handle more audio post-processing modes, in fact it has enough resources to handle Pro Logic 2Z for front L/R height channels if HK decides to rev the S/W.

And as mentioned by dRock...
The Room EQ S/W in the 7550HD/760/660 was developed in-house by the Harman/JBL team. And was also used in various higher-end JBL components as well. It works incredibly well especially for smoothing out low frequency issues, rather than boosting certain frequency bumps to cover the holes/nodes it actually pulls downs each side of the hole which allows the audio DSP processors to have more headroom..

Another strength of the 7550HD/760 is its power supply the power transformer itself weighs 14.8 LBs whereas the entire 3650 unit weighs barely 25 LBs. Regarding the 7550HD/760 power supply it is actually a dual secondary design; 1 power supply is for the L/R fronts and center while the 2nd power supply is for the surrounds L/R and back L/R.

One other significant point of the 7550HD/760/660 vs. the 3650 is its loudspeaker output binding posts. The 7550HD/760/660 are metal and very robust while the 3650 ones are the plastics ones as used on their entry level models.

Just my $0.02...
post #57 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by dRockHK View Post

As stated at the end of my last post, the 7550HD, like the 3600, does not support ARC - other than that, there would be no loss compared to the 3650 when it comes to features as those new to the 3650 were already used on the 7550HD except PLIIz. It also has two less HDMI ports (4 vs 6) than the 3650.

So, loss vs 3600: None. Loss vs 3650: No ARC, two less HDMI, cannot reassign SB as front heights for DPLIIz support.

Day to day operation is the same with any, as they share the same GUI menu setup which first appeared with AVR254/354. It is very easy to use and navigate.

What you gain:
A LOT of power with the 7550, which is rated with an HCC current spec of 60amps like your 745, where as the 3600 and 3650 are rated at 35amps. It's dual secondary power supply is huge, along with 180% more secondary capacitance than the 3650 and 150% more than the 3600.
You will hardly be gaining any power over your AVR745, but you won't be losing any! It is hard to compare the wattage specs, as the 3650 uses a less accurate/more inflated rating at higher distortion for better numbers on paper. Just looking at the product weights gives you an idea of their capability, 44lbs for the 7550 vs 31.5 for the 3600 and 27.5 for the 3650.

As mentioned before, the 7550 like the 745 has significantly more DSP resources allowing for a much better EQ (EZSet/EQ II, which was actually developed by Harman) with significantly better low frequency correction, dual independent subwoofers, and ability to store two listening positions.
Like the 745, the 7550 also can post process/layer the Logic 7 surround modes on multichannel digital streams not only to create a 7.1/7.2 presentation but also improved channel steering. It is very impressive, and the 7550 even adds the ability to layer L7 onto 5.1 DTSHD/TrueHD. The 3600/3650 can only apply logic 7 to 2 channel analog or 2.0 PCM (also applies to all previous HK 1/2/3 series AVRs w/ L7)
Besides this, the 7550 has many more analog and digital connections, as well as the 6/8 channel direct input WITH bass management (unlike the 3600's 6/8 channel input) The 7550 also supports still image playback over the network connection and USB unlike the 3650, though this is a trivial feature.

The remote is similar between the three, but with an LCD screen on the 7550's to make operation and setup much easier (plus a much larger built-in code library) None are as good as the 745's Harmony-clone TC30 remote, however.


A view of the back panels for comparison;

3650;


3600;


7550;



There really is no comparison, the 7550 was HK's most recent flagship AVR, with an MSRP nearly triple that of the 3600 and 3650. Do keep in mind that the refurb 7550s are selling for nearly double the current closeout/street prices of the 3600.

You should read over the AVR 7550 thread in this forum, lots of great info and discussion between owners.

Someone here offered $xxx for a refurbished, new... 7550... is that good price?
post #58 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRIS650 View Post

Someone here offered $877 for a refurbished, new... 7550... is that good price?

Original dealer cost was $1546...
So the refurb cost is discounted 44%..

Make sure that the unit has been updated to HDMI 1.4.

Just my $0.02..
post #59 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Original dealer cost was $1546...
So the refurb cost is discounted 44%..

Make sure that the unit has been updated to HDMI 1.4.

Just my $0.02..

it's from Harman... should I assume it's updated to 1.4? Or will they offer a firmware to update?
post #60 of 189
wait a minute... 1.4 means ARC. And thought 1775 did not come with ARC on HDMI
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