Official harman kardon 1565,1650,2650,3650 thread - Page 3

The 7550HD/760/660 was certified for HDMI 1.3 in 2009...
Fast forward 2 years later...
HDMI 1.4 standards were released and HK rewrote the HDMI firmware to be able to handle the (6) mandatory 3-D formats. Certain optional features of HDMI 1.4 including ARC were not implemented in the subject update.

Just my $0.02...

After having the AVR 2650 in my house for about three weeks there are some upsides and some downsides. I think in the end I'll be returning it and getting a Marantz SR 5006.

The biggest problem I'm having with the AVR 2650 is audio drop out from my recorded TiVo shows. If I rewind the recording 99/100 times the audio doesn't drop out. I've change the cable to a new certified, short (2 foot) HDMI cable and it still happens.

Also there is an audio problem when using the Apple TV. The audio will just stop at random times. Pausing and restarting the show doesn't fix it. I have to rewind it back to before the audio glitch happened and start playing it again.

Lastly the video upscaling is really good for some content and creates artifacts and noise with other content. All video processing settings have been tested and it doesn't alleviate the issues.

The audio problems are worse than my failed HDMI Onkyo!

Just noticed a new link on the AVR 2650 and AVR 3650 product pages for Harman's "Media Manager" program for your PC/Mac, allowing DLNA playback / streaming to AVR if you could not do so previously, lets you 'push' content from PC to the AVR rather than use the AVR's menus, and updating your existing media library info/cover art.

More info;
http://www.locale.harmankardon.com/e...iamanager.html

Hi All,

Long term lurker, and former supporter of another forum that keeps shrinking its HT section.....

Just wanted to weigh in on a disturbing trend I've seen with H/K.

My first H/K AVR was a 230 - a solid and muscular receiver, with plenty of clean power, and such a heavy power supply that I wouldn't put it on the glass shelf in my unit as I was worried about it breaking it. Thing was over 30lbs. Swore I'd never get rid of it.

A few years later, I was helping a buddy design a HT setup, and we settled on the AVR 254 for him. Another really solid unit - very heavy, lots of power, great GUI. Excellent piece, and quality sound.

Then along came HDMI audio, and an H/K was just out my budget, so I got a Denon 591. Very nice piece, a bit more lightweight than the H/K, nowhere near the bottom end punch in stereo, but Audyssey was super nice. However, I just couldn't get used to its stereo, so I end up....

Buying an AVR 1600. Nice unit, nowhere near as robust as my AVR 230, but still a decent (not overbuilt) power supply. A quality unit, way better at the HT thing than the old AVR 230, not quite as good at stereo, but still better than the Denon.

Then my buddy has me over last night to hook up a second HT in his basement, and he's bought himself a HK AVR1565. All I can say is.....

What the heck?

If the thing weighed over 20 lbs, I'd be surprised. The sound out of it was thin, and really Pioneer 521ish. Lots of mid-range distortion, just like all the other entry-level AVRs.

The thing looked nice and all, but did not sound like an H/K.

The disturbing trend is that the power supply keeps getting lighter, pieces keep disappearing (i.e. pre-outs), and they are losing that robust and full sound that made H/K famous. The 1565 reminds me of what happened when Yamaha went into entry level gear a few years back - for some time they can trade on their reputation as a "premium" brand, but the mass-marketing of their product eventually comes back to haunt them.

All I can say is if you want an H/K, skip the 1565, and either pick up a discounted 1600 or 2600. I used to recommend H/K to all my buddies - hey, do you want bells and whistles or quality sound. Unfortunately, with the 1565, it looks like you get neither.

The 154 weighs the same amount as the 1565, despite the 1565 being rated at 70 watts per channel vs the 154's 30 watts per channel. THD is higher on the 1565 as well.

Have they sold out? Is there anymore discussion of this that someone could link? I had wanted to stick with H/K due to how much I like my slightly older model, but I really don't like the idea of having to buy older models just to ensure it will sound good.

Should I start looking at Marantz? >: (

Can still get the 1600 and 2600 through online retailers for a decent dollar.

If 3D isn't important to you, there is no comparison between my 1600 and my buddy's 1565. You can also check out the official HK 1600/2600/3600 thread here as well.

Good points..
Keep in mind, there are major feature stepups to the 2600/260/2650/265/3600/360/3650/365 including Dolby Volume, video processing and the full HD GUI..


Just my $0.02..

I currently have a AVR 354 and was thinking of upgrading to a 2650. The 354 is working great and sounds awesome, but there are two small issues. One is the lack of HDMI inputs. I'm at the point where I need more. The other, and more important one, is that I've been experiencing some HDMI handshake issues with the 354. Nothing too terrible, mostly notice when first changing the input selection, of often times when watching blu-ray and the disc is starting up.

My question, does anyone know if the 2650 has any HDMI handshake issues? Does the 2650 sounds as good as a 354? Comparable?

Thanks.

I have had a HK AVR 2650 for the last 2 months and still haven't found the cause for ocassional audio and video signal dropout between my Sony PS3 and my Sony Bravia LED TV (NX727 series).

This issue always occurs 10 seconds after the PS3 is turned on, and ocassionally repeats after 2 or 2-1/2 hours of continuous operation.

In the AVR, I activated "HDMI Video Bypass" feature for the Game Input (with the PS3 connected to the AVR's HDMI 3 input).

The AVR <-> TV HDMI cable is connected at the AVR's HDMI TV output
output and at the TV's HDMI 1 input (with ARC). There is no other input been used (just the default Analog TV that cannot be erased from the HDMI input sources table).

Already confirmed the 2 HDMI cables (PS3 <-> AVR and AVR <-> TV) are HDMI 1.4 certified, and disabled the "BraviaSync" external device controls over HDMI at the LED TV options menu to prevent any conflicting instructions between the 3 devices.

After the occasional dropout occurs, the only "work around" solution that I have identified is to change the input at the Sony Bravia LED TV from HDMI 1 to "Analog TV" and switch back to HDMI 1, and voila!...everything goes back to normality for a couple of hours.

Does anybody has experienced this problem?

How did you solve it?

Do you know the cause for this problem?

Thanks for your support and reply.


- AudioBass

Hi, just found this thread and have only read last post - need to read the rest.

Just wanted to report I'm having a similar issue to the post just above mine, plus one more.

Have the HDMI output plugged into a Samsung UN55ES8000, into it's port "HDMI2" which is the one that provides the ARC. My "TV" source is defined as video input "HDMI1" but I've got the ARC turned on via the HDMI control. I didn't think the vid input should matter, but read on. TV is set to display "TV" source for OTA viewing, while AVR is set to the "TV" source and you get the audio via the ARC. As with the post above, sometimes switching away from TV as the source to something else, then back, the audio doesn't come back on. You have to power cycle the 2650.

Now my HDMI1 on the AVR has as an input cable the connection from my Blu-Ray. And my AVR2650 "Blu-Ray" source is set up to configure this as passthru. So one possible fix I might try is to change the "TV" source to use a different "video" source, so it's not confused?? (I did turn off the Viero Sync (Panasonic) on the Blu-Ray). Especially since it seems that switching the source to Blu-Ray from TV is one of the causes of losing the ARC sound.

The second issue I've got though is that I'm using the composive Video 1 and Audio analog 1 as the inputs for a Wii. That maps to the "C" colored source button on the AVR. And it seems like about half the time, you hit the "C" button on the remote and the AVR will just NOT SWITCH to that source. I can't for the life of me figure out why. When on that source, the AVR is doing the upscaling and spitting the video out the HDMI-out, and the TV is set to input HDMI2 (the only cable going to/from the TV right now).

Anyone else had this problem? I can I suppose wire the Wii composite video directly to the TV (which I figured I'd try anyway to see if the TV does better upscaling than the AVR, but I don't expect night and day differences, and for wall mounting would prefer to minimize the cabling into the TV.

Any other similar problems?

Hello All!

Don't know if any of you have seen it, but Home Theater Magazine recently reviewed HK's AVR-3650, and on their Test Bench results the 3650 only produced about 50 watts/ch with all seven channels driven....a far cry from their published 110 watts/ch over 2 channels driven! Seems like HK stole the power supplies from a Sony and put it in their receivers. Totally disappointed in the direction HK is going in now...

Just got my 2650 today. It is replacing my AVR435. It's going to take me a while to figure out how to get this thing sounding like it's supposed to...

Here are some things I've noticed compared to my old 435

• It's way lighter than my 435...
• The gunmetal is sexier
• The lights on the knob are white now instead of blue
• When I read the manual on the HK site before I bought it, it made it seem like the 2650 had HDMI on the front. When I opened mine today I was sad to find out that it does not. I guess that is only the 3650. The picture on the HK site misleading (shows USB port, hard to zoom in). The USB port is normally covered up with a plate.
• The on screen menu is extremely slow to navigate
• There are no buttons on the remote to switch the surround mode like the 435 used to have. You are forced to use the OSD with multiple button presses
• Due to the forced OSD, I will have to do some very tricky programming with my harmony remote. Since I can't make macros I suppose I could just make new activity buttons that switch my surround mode..... we'll see
• The video scaler input lag is almost non existent. I was not able to detect any difference compared to my normal connection (tested with some FPS 720p --> 1080i) Have not tested 480p --> 1080i
• The newer HK remotes feel cheap compared to my old 435 which back in its day was pretty mid-range. The 435 had an LCD readout at the top of the remote and a light function. Neither of those on the 2650 remote (not that we should care, most of us use harmony or equivalent)
• The EZSet/EQ II is just as bad as EZSet/EQ used to be. Maybe worse. It set my 45Hz - 25Khz CMT340 Ascends with a 40Hz crossover. It also set my CMB170 Ascends (53HZ - 20kHz) with a 40Hz crossover. yikes. Stay away.
• Thankfully my favorite HK feature of all is still there (just renamed I guess) "Harman Headphone". I will try it and see how it compares to my 435's "Dolby Headphone".
• I tried the Dolby Volume and had mixed results. The manual suggests that the "Low" setting is the bees knees and should be used almost at all times (the appendix suggests it in almost every listening mode). It said something about the Low setting having only the modulator turned on, while the Medium and Max settings have the modulator plus the leveler. I've found that when listening to music and medium volume, I like it on Low. When listening to music at low volume, all I can hear is the bass. When listening at high volumes my understanding is that it should be turned off. When listening to anything other than music to my ears it makes it sound like everyone is underwater. Yes I did adjust the sensitivity compared with the default 88dB sensitivity. It definitely adds a lot more bass to everything even with the low setting. Because I'm not a fan of making things sound like they are underwater, I will keep it set to Off unless it is late and I'm trying not to piss off my neighbors then I will use "Max".
• The 2650 does not seem to want to allow manual initiation of a music surround mode when my source is dolby digital. If I have my xbox on and I want to choose something other than dolby digital or plain stereo for music, with my 435 I could choose whatever mode I wanted. With the 2650 you can only choose dolby digital or plain stereo.
• Video scaler will make your TV flicker for a while until it figures out how to show the picture. This happens every time you turn the receiver on. If you have an old CRT RPTV like me then expect it to flicker like there is no tomorrow until a picture is finally displayed.
  
  TL;DR I got my 2650 and there are some good things but so far I'm not too impressed

Does anyone know if I can bi-amp my mains like the Denons allow? I'm only using 5.1 and no zone 2 so I would like to bi-amp. I searched for "biamp", "bi-amp" in the manual but I couldn't find anything....

edit: I just learned that bi-amping with a receiver alone is pointless and it's a marketing gimmick. Nevermind

Sadly I'm going to have to return my 2650 to get something else due to these two problems:





Regarding the no input lag I mentioned above...well I have found that true for the following:

hdmi 720p --> dvi 1080i none whatsoever
component 480p --> dvi 1080i none whatsoever

except:
component 1080i --> dvi 1080i very noticable if you're a gamer (especially in rock band)

Not sure what to get yet. Looking at Denon, Marantz, and Pioneer. Anyone heard anything about HK 2012 models yet? Maybe they made some changes...

I have a HK 3600 that is hooked up to a Samsung BD-P2550 through HDMI. 5.1 surround speakers. The AVR is set to "AVR selects best mode" for audio.

Typically when I play a Bluray disc, the display shows "Logic 7 Movie" and the sound is phenomenal. Now, the last Blurays I rented showed "multi-CH PCM" and it sounded kinda quiet and crappy. When I go to surround modes, the only other option is 2-CH stereo, so it looks like the "multi-CH PCM" is only outputting stereo sound. Updated the firmware in my Bluray player and no change.

When I drop in an older Bluray (U2-360), it again shows "Logic 7 Movie" and the sound is great?!? This is driving me crazy; the Bluray sound makes the whole movie experience. Any idea what this could be?? Should I update my receiver as well? Seems like the Bluray is the problem?

Thanks for any pointers on this!

The 3600 only applies Logic 7 to stereo signals, so in both cases when you see Logic 7 and when you see Multi-CH PCM, you seem to be only getting a left and right signal. You should check the configuration options for your BD player and make sure that it is not set to default 2 channel output.

Are you sure about this? I would have to double check but I think it pretty much always shows Logic 7 Movie? The player is set up for 5.1 surround (I disabled the 2 back surrounds that would make it 7.1).

The sound quality between Logic 7 and Multi-CH PCM is pretty dramatic. I guess I could turn off the AVR processing and directly pass through the sound signal from the player? That way I should only hear sound coming out of the two front speakers if the output is truly 2 ch stereo, right? Maybe the AVR isn't processing the signal correctly.

Thanks!!

Here is where I got my information.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1303515

Additionally that information is also located in the manual in the appendix A-12 on page 56.

Check the mentioned post..

"On the AVR160, 1600, 260, 2600, 360, 3600 & 460 the Logic 7 mode will only function when:
1. Incoming stream is 2-ch analog
2. Incoming stream is 2-ch digital (PCM)

The higher end AVR660, AVR 760 & AVR7550HD has additional Logic 7 capabilities as it has greater DSP resources.

For more info, you should check with HK product support.."

As I posted 15 months back, the HK models 3600/2600/1600 CANNOT process Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 with Logic 7 @ the same time. Only the stereo streams of PCM or analog L/R will output (post-process) to Logic 7. If the 3600 display is indicating Logic 7 then the source component is outputting 1 of the previously mentioned streams.

The limiting factor is the CS 49700 audio DSP used, though powerful it does not have enough resources to do Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 along with Logic 7 simultaneously..

Just my $0.02..

Wondering if any you who have the HK3650 are running the full 7 channel surround AND using the 2nd zone feature for add'l speakers, either with an amplifier or something else? I'm hoping to utilize this feature for a pair of outdoor speakers while not disturbing the 7 channel surround, but am open to the idea I guess. Is a cheap amp the way to go?
Thanks
Aric

Yes, to keep 7.1 in the main room use the Zone2 analog pre-outs and keep the SBR/SBL channels assigned to the main room/zone. You will need a separate amp to power your Zone 2 speakers. Use the 3650's main or zone2 remote set to Zone2 to control volume level.

instead of an actual amp a stereo receiver could be used to power the Zone2 speakers, with an analog input connected to the 3650's Z2 preouts (with either the 3650's Zone2 volume or the stereo receiver's volume level fixed at a high level and the other actually controlling it)
If doing this you could just use the stereo receiver as-is, though.

Another option is to use the 3650's Zone 2 preouts to supply an A-Bus hub and volume control module, e.g. the H/K AB1+ABH4. This will allow volume control directly at the second room/zone using the wall switch, as well as IR control feedback to the AVR for remote commands. Only a single cat5 line gets run from the hub (position near AVR) to second zone. The speakers connect and are driven by the volume control module. With this setup leave the 3650 Z2 volume high and use the A-Bus volume controls for volume level (As you are using pre-outs, if the 3650's Z2 volume is lowered the entire Z2 A-Bus system volume max will be lowered)
A-Bus is low-powered, the volume control module can't be exposed to the elements, and the system will be more expensive than a basic 2 channel amp or receiver, however.

Hi folks, I stumbled on this thread when trying to find a solution to an AVR 3650 issue. I have a 5.1 setup being driven by an HTPC that sounds great in my main room. I'm trying to pump out sound to a pair of outdoor speakers. It's not a problem when I hook up an internet tuner (has analog outs) to one set of my alalog inputs. However, I'm stumped on how I get the audio from my HTPC (currently using hdmi) out to zone 2. I would really like to have Pandora blasting out to zone2. It's a must for me to use the HTPC box as I'm not in the USA and have to run pandora via vpn.
Any help would be much appreciated.

You will need to make an analog audio connection from the HTPC to the 3650 for it to be used as a source for Zone2. To do so you may have to use the headphone output of your PC's sound card with a 3.5mm->RCA L/R cable. If that is not possible, if the HTPC has a digital coax or optical output that is not being utilized an S/PDIF->Analog RCA L/R convertor can be used. Example of one of these convertors from monoprice; http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=6884&seq=1&format=2
Note these convertors only work with 2.0 audio streams, they can't downmix multichannel to 2.0

Thanks dRock, I know I have a 3.5mm coming out of the htpc that is not being used. I wasn't sure if the HTPC would output hdmi audio and the 3.5mm at the same time. I'll check it out.

I have a 2650 I'm returning. Already have the return label. It loses the audio signal on my Nvidia GEforce gt430 every time I turn off the display or the AVR or both. Called the 'experts' at HK and no fix. They blamed it on the Nvidia driver (which coincidentally was updated lately) so I rolled back the driver several times using older and older drivers. Still no audio and my AVR 254 worked fine for 5 years with the same Nvidia card.

I think it sounds stupendous if it weren't for having to re-establish audio every time I turn on my television/PC media center. I still wouldn't recommend it even if it weren't for that because I don't like having to choose an analog only input on zone 2 (or buying the bridge . . . and an ipod . . . and having to deal with apple software and hardware.

Hi,

i bought the H/K AVR 165 and have a huge problem...

Everything works well, but the connection between my PC and the AVR thru HDMI doesn't work. No video, no sound...

I replaced the hdmi cables and used different hdmi slots.

GTX 460 <-> AVR <-> Sony Bravia KDL-40BX400 (doesnt work)
AsRock Z68 Gen3 Pro3 <-> AVR <-> Sony Bravia KDL-40BX400 (doesnt work)
Mainboard or graphic <-> Sony Bravia KDL-40BX400 (works, but no sound)

Impossible to watch Sky Go or any other kind of media on my TV, very annoying!

Hope u understand everything, my englisch isn't the best.

Any helpful suggestions?

Do you see the AVR's on screen menus on your display?

Do you have any OTHER HDMI source device you can use to test? DVD, bluray, anything? If so, hook it up just to test/verify operation of the AVR's HDMI inputs.


If you have no sound from the PC even when connected directly to the display, I would think there are some issues with the PC/GPU itself. Make sure you have the latest driver's installed, and if running windows from the volume mixer make sure the HDMI external output volume is at full.


BTW - there is a firmware update available for your set;
http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-home.pl?mdl=KDL40EX400&template_id=1&region_id=1&tab=download#/downloadTab
That's too bad. I take it you did not want to try an exchange?
I'm surprised your old 254 functioned 'properly' as you desired, all of the HDMI HK's I've used (which includes a 254 like you had and the current 3650, among others) will drop audio from an HDMI source if an HDMI connected display (in my case, samsung models with every AVR) is turned on or off while it is in use because of the handshake process. I've always considered this 'normal' operation :shrug:

Analog only for multizone is the norm for most receivers. In previous years only the top model HKs had this ability, but it was even removed from their last flagship model (7550HD)


If you don't want to deal with the bridge+iPod, the 2650+3650 (and the discontinued 7550) have network connectivity to play your music files off DLNA devices like your PC. You can use the AVR's on screen menus or even just the front display (but harder) to navigate through the folders to select individual files, albums or playlists - or even push content and playlists to the AVR directly from your PC. Harman's "Media Manager" software is available on the 2650 and 3650 product pages to make it easier, but it is not required. I have just used WMP.

Technical support seemed aware of the problem and said it would be a waste of time to exchange. I found an avr which had all the features I was looking for from a different manufacturer, including digital output to zone two for the same price (on sale). DLNA ethernet does not work in zone two.

I also checked, my old one was a 354. Does anyone have a fix for the avr losing audio from a graphics card when a display is turned on or off? Isn't there something which could trick the HK/PC into thinking the display is always on?

Any other suggestions?
Edited by Troyinfortlaud - 8/23/12 at 12:33pm