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Jurassic Park trilogy - Page 64

post #1891 of 1995
Here are some still images of JP from 1993(or around)-
CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 85

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

I don't think these shots look like the 2011 Bluray or any previous Official Home-Video versions ever!
But the 3D version in the cinemas and the BD 3D at least have this look!
post #1892 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordAwesome View Post

Anyone who thinks the 3D colours are more accurate to Jurassic Park's 1993 presention is blowing smoke out of their behind or are 15.

The daytime scenes have always been bright. This looks like someone threw brown sludge over the negative.

Alan Grant's shirt has always been denim blue, not teal.

The JP cars have always been yellow, not orange.
But it's CLOSER to original look than disastrous pinkich crap from 2011 BD. Also how many times are we gonna get through this? Almost every movie from pre-DI era that goes through digital restoration and color correction looks different and will always look different. But no, there always must be someone who will say "It was always blah blah blah, not...". It was supervised by Steven Spielberg, are you Steven Spielberg? Or you just want to tell us you know better how HIS movie suppose to look?

There's plenty of official stills from Jurassic Park. Take a look at them and then tell us which version is closest to original one.
post #1893 of 1995
Here are some Lobby Cards-









They have that same warm toned finish! Nothing like the bluish-pinkish image of the 2011 Bluray, as Johnny Vertigo has correctly reported as well.
post #1894 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papai2011 View Post

Here are some Lobby Cards-

They have that same warm toned finish! Nothing like the bluish-pinkish image of the 2011 Bluray, as Johnny Vertigo has correctly reported as well.

Not commenting one way or the other how the 3D Blu-ray looks, but you cannot accurately judge a movie's color timing by how stills, lobby cards or magazine photos look. Not just the fact that photos, especially "posed" images are often taken under different lighting and exposure conditions than how the scene is actually shot, or even if the (promotional) image is taken directly off a frame of the finished film (which isn't common), but the graphic printing process itself leaves a lot of room for significant changes in color intentionally or not.
post #1895 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Vertigo View Post

No, they're not:

http://imageshack.us/a/img855/9960/jurassicpark3d23.png
Unfortunately, still a mushy, digital looking image, well short of what a 4K transfer off the negative should harvest.
I don't really see how anyone could argue that the DNR hasn't done serious damage to the image quality of this new transfer. A necessary evil for 3D perhaps, but somewhere out there, in the depths of some Universal vault, there is a pristine, richly detailed 4K version of Jurassic Park.
post #1896 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Unfortunately, still a mushy, digital looking image
Yes, but I just wanted to show that the details are still here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

I don't really see how anyone could argue that the DNR hasn't done serious damage to the image quality of this new transfer.
Who says it didn't? Not me. But I don't care to be honest, at least as long as exactly the same thing will not be released as remastered 2D Blu-ray.

And about the framing/cropping - It would be completely OK for me if the 1,85:1 frame was open to full 1,78:1, like in this case (the first one is 2011 Blu-ray, the second - I don't know, but it's in full 16:9):



Edited by Johnny Vertigo - 4/18/13 at 1:03am
post #1897 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

Not commenting one way or the other how the 3D Blu-ray looks, but you cannot accurately judge a movie's color timing by how stills, lobby cards or magazine photos look. Not just the fact that photos, especially "posed" images are often taken under different lighting and exposure conditions than how the scene is actually shot, or even if the (promotional) image is taken directly off a frame of the finished film (which isn't common), but the graphic printing process itself leaves a lot of room for significant changes in color intentionally or not.

Ok, you have point! But what about the 35mm film frames. Did you have a look at those? They have that same warm tone that's present in the 3D version!
post #1898 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Vertigo View Post


And about the framing/cropping - It would be completely OK for me if the 1,85:1 frame was open to full 1,78:1, like in this case (the first one is 2011 Blu-ray, the second - I don't know, but it's in full 16:9):



Agreed! But Johnny Vertigo, also do take a look at this laserdisc framing-
Lavc54.29.101
post #1899 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papai2011 View Post

Ok, you have point! But what about the 35mm film frames. Did you have a look at those? They have that same warm tone that's present in the 3D version!

Warm is yellow/orangish. The color cast on the new transfer is red/pinkish with some mud brown thrown in a few scenes. I don't remember Jurassic Park looking like O Brother Where Art Thou.

Note the clouds and lighting in the lobby card are white which is accurate for the location and time of day:


Indoor yellowish lighting. It looks believable though.


Not that lobby cards are indicative of a film's final look but it sure looks much more pleasing than the BD screenshots.

Red color cast.


Like it's from a different movie.


Doesn't even match the shots around it.


Again this is like the Bram Stoker's Dracula BD fiasco. Every other transfer of that had a certain look until a new transfer came out with obvious digital filters applied. We were given the "this is how it's supposed to look" and "all previous versions were wrong" jargon too. I guess simply saying "we changed the look of the film" is just too controversial.
post #1900 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Warm is yellow/orangish. The color cast on the new transfer is red/pinkish with some mud brown thrown in a few scenes. I don't remember Jurassic Park looking like O Brother Where Art Thou.

Note the clouds and lighting in the lobby card are white which is accurate for the location and time of day:


Indoor yellowish lighting. It looks believable though.


Not that lobby cards are indicative of a film's final look but it sure looks much more pleasing than the BD screenshots.

Red color cast.


Like it's from a different movie.


Doesn't even match the shots around it.


Again this is like the Bram Stoker's Dracula BD fiasco. Every other transfer of that had a certain look until a new transfer came out with obvious digital filters applied. We were given the "this is how it's supposed to look" and "all previous versions were wrong" jargon too. I guess simply saying "we changed the look of the film" is just too controversial.

I ave to agree though, that the 3D version in the cinemas didn't look as dim and brown as the 3D BD.
post #1901 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papai2011 View Post

I ave to agree though, that the 3D version in the cinemas didn't look as dim and brown as the 3D BD.

Looked pink to me.
post #1902 of 1995
Now my capture card works again...
here you are the "when dinosaurs ruled the world" screenshot; taken with another laserdisc player, CLD-D925, then with avisynth a bit of sharpening, denoising, then upscaled to match the 2011 BD screenshot:



as you can see, colors are better than the previous laserdisc image, similar to the 2011 BD but without that pinkish tone; this time the cropping is different, because there are a little more picture on the top and right side, and a bit less on the left and bottom side - don't know if this is because this particular scene has italian subtitles...
post #1903 of 1995
I was able to sample a 2D extraction of the 3D Blu-ray transfer. My first thought was how controversial this was going to be. My second thought was how much time and effort must have gone into this transfer.

Yes, it is essentially grain-free. This makes for the best 3D, and that is what this release is for. That aside, for sheer eye candy, this movie has never looked this good. Ever. As close to "perfect", digitally speaking, as I have seen from a scan of film. For those claiming a loss of detail, I disagree. A lack of grain is not necessarily a lack of detail when the image is being viewed at 2K resolution. This new scan has visibly more depth and detail than the previous Blu-ray. It just doesn't have any visible grain.

Having compared both, I expect I will never watch the older Blu-ray again.

But that's just me.
post #1904 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBob57 View Post

But that's just me.

Indeed.
post #1905 of 1995
Does anyone have a good collection of screencaps from the VHS version, or have the capability to do so? From what I understand, the VHS shared the same color correction of the original films release, correct? I know the original was much warmer than the 2011 blu ray, but I am curious if they went too far with this release.
post #1906 of 1995
post #1907 of 1995
The 3-D scheme is inaccurate. Although, the new contrast levels excite me whenever viewing new scans of a catalog title.
Edited by homogenic - 4/18/13 at 2:58pm
post #1908 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by homogenic View Post

The 3-D scheme is inaccurate. Although, the new contrast levels excite me whenever viewing new scans of a catalog title.

It seems easy to throw around terms like "inaccurate" when discussing the director's intent.

In the absence of some other reference, I go with what the director decided.
post #1909 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.laserdisc.ws View Post

Now my capture card works again...
here you are the "when dinosaurs ruled the world" screenshot; taken with another laserdisc player, CLD-D925, then with avisynth a bit of sharpening, denoising, then upscaled to match the 2011 BD screenshot:



as you can see, colors are better than the previous laserdisc image, similar to the 2011 BD but without that pinkish tone; this time the cropping is different, because there are a little more picture on the top and right side, and a bit less on the left and bottom side - don't know if this is because this particular scene has italian subtitles...

Here is the same screenshot from my CLV NTSC (hence poor quality) copy of JP Laserdisc-

This one has more image on top than your PAL LD, but the PAL LD has more image on the Right side and slightly more at the bottom.

Still, both these images look taller and better than the BD and the 3D BD, primarily because the snout of the T-Rex gets cropped in those!-

Edited by Papai2011 - 4/19/13 at 4:49am
post #1910 of 1995
Papai2011, which NTSC laserdisc edition did you use? With which capture card?

Because I have right now captured the DTS laserdisc, and the colors are way better than your capture, looks similar to PAL; here you are, DTS top, PAL bottom:

post #1911 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.laserdisc.ws View Post

Papai2011, which NTSC laserdisc edition did you use? With which capture card?

Because I have right now captured the DTS laserdisc, and the colors are way better than your capture, looks similar to PAL; here you are, DTS top, PAL bottom:


Mine is from a digital copy of the CLV NTSC laserdisc. A friend gave it to me.
Also, the PAL Laserdisc has way better picture quality and colour than the NTSC laserdisc, on a par with the NTSC DVD quality I would say!
post #1912 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papai2011 View Post

Mine is from a digital copy of the CLV NTSC laserdisc. A friend gave it to me.
Also, the PAL Laserdisc has way better picture quality and colour than the NTSC laserdisc, on a par with the NTSC DVD quality I would say!

I should add that, after I bought the PAL DVD, I preferred to continute watching the PAL laserdisc, for its better colors and soundtrack, and watch the PAL DVD only for the supplemental material...

Maybe I should start a "Jurassic Park laserdisc project"...
post #1913 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.laserdisc.ws View Post

I should add that, after I bought the PAL DVD, I preferred to continute watching the PAL laserdisc, for its better colors and soundtrack, and watch the PAL DVD only for the supplemental material...

Maybe I should start a "Jurassic Park laserdisc project"...

Oh yes, that'd be cool, but what about the hardcoded italian subtitles? You can't fix that unless you use another English PAL Laserdisc source, cause all the DVDs and Blurays are cropped!
Can you tell me which LD player you got(the model no.), and what process do you use, or will, in order to capture the laserdisc movie as a video file in your HDD?
I'm interested in doing something like that myself, hence asking your opinion on the matter!
Edited by Papai2011 - 4/19/13 at 11:06am
post #1914 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papai2011 View Post

Oh yes, that'd be cool, but what about the hardcoded italian subtitles? You can't fix that unless you use another English PAL Laserdisc source, cause all the DVDs and Blurays are cropped!
Can you tell me which LD player you got(the model no.), and what process do you use, or will, in order to capture the laserdisc movie as a video file in your HDD?
I'm interested in doing something like that myself, hence asking your opinion on the matter!

I've done it before with another movie - I can't write here which one, it's only a movie that was released on theaters, then on special edition on theaters and video, then on DVD, than on BD, each time with, ehr, "improved" features... I repeat, I can't write here the title biggrin.gif, but I will do EPV and EPVI if there is enough interest...

Well, let's talk about JP: I will use several PAL italian laserdiscs (three copies at least) for the whole movie, and the PAL UK boxset laserdisc for the scenes with subtitles; if the colors of the UK and IT will match, I'll use only the frames with subtitles, otherwise if colors are consistent enough but not identical, I'll use the whole scenes with subtitles from the UK. The DTS US NTSC will be used for audio only. I have also the US NTSC CLV and CAV, but I think I will not use them for video. I could, perhaps, use the "making of" NTSC laserdisc, but as it is available on the BD, I don't know how much could be useful...

Process: I use avisynth and virtualdub; the captures will be median/averaged to have less video noise, then a bit of sharpening and noise reduction, upscale to 720p to release the final product as AVCHD 1280x720 @23.976fps - video coded as AVC/H.264 at least at 7000kbps (probably more); soundtracks will be italian (of course, as I'll do it for myself and my familiy and friends), english (still don't know if UK is better than US NTSC laserdisc), and surely english DTS (for BD only) - further soundtracks will be used ONLY if someone could provide them and ONLY if they are from laserdisc - so it could be from french, german, spanish PAL laserdiscs, as they exists - the soundtracks will be AC3 2.0 384kbps Dolby Surround encoded on AVCHD, and PCM 2.0 1536kbps Dolby Surround encoded + DTS 5.1 full bitrate on BD; subtitles (forced and full) will be present accordingly to related soundtracks - I'd like to use literal subtitles (matching the dialogues word-by-word).

I have several laserdisc players; for the project I wrote before, I decided to use Pioneer CLD-D925, S-video out; capture card is based on the Philips SAA713x, a quite good capture card, but the comb filter in the laserdisc player seems to work better. If I'll do this project, maybe I will use another laserdisc player, like the Pioneer LD-V4300D, an industrial player with linear motor like the Pioneer HLD-X0, or a simple Pioneer CLD-600, as it has no digital "frills" like the 925; I have to check my old CLD-2950, as it seems its belt must be changed...

Last thing: IF this project will be started, and IF it will be appreciated enough, I could always think about JP:TLW (same things as JP, apart the subtitles scenes will be taken from the english NTSC laserdisc, until I could locate a PAL UK one)

What do you think?
post #1915 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.laserdisc.ws View Post

I've done it before with another movie - I can't write here which one, it's only a movie that was released on theaters, then on special edition on theaters and video, then on DVD, than on BD, each time with, ehr, "improved" features... I repeat, I can't write here the title biggrin.gif, but I will do EPV and EPVI if there is enough interest...

Well, let's talk about JP: I will use several PAL italian laserdiscs (three copies at least) for the whole movie, and the PAL UK boxset laserdisc for the scenes with subtitles; if the colors of the UK and IT will match, I'll use only the frames with subtitles, otherwise if colors are consistent enough but not identical, I'll use the whole scenes with subtitles from the UK. The DTS US NTSC will be used for audio only. I have also the US NTSC CLV and CAV, but I think I will not use them for video. I could, perhaps, use the "making of" NTSC laserdisc, but as it is available on the BD, I don't know how much could be useful...
... IF this project will be started, and IF it will be appreciated enough, I could always think about JP:TLW (same things as JP, apart the subtitles scenes will be taken from the english NTSC laserdisc, until I could locate a PAL UK one)

What do you think?

Great, just great! But be careful about one thing- All PAL(25 fps) videos run faster than NTSC (29.97 fps) video. They have 4% speedup issues. As a result the audio pitch also changes. When you are encoding the PAL laserdisc video, make sure to check the runtime, it'll be around 2hrs and 2 mins approx(though nothing will be cut, just fast). Then you will need to change the framerate of that PAL video to 24 fps. You will need to do the same for the sound too I guess, to match the 24fps video.
Then sync them together, look for audio discontinuities and stuff, and you're done- You'll have the uncropped Laserdisc movie, and have the original DTS soundtrack muxed as one. As near to perfect as possible.
Then let us have it as well, only if you want to share it of course. It'll be the ultimate JP version, untill they release a 4K version of that that is, which they're not doing anytime soon!
So cheers, it'll be a good thing if you do it. Good idea!
post #1916 of 1995
I'm aware of the "PAL speedup affaire", don't worry!
I told you I've done before, with FIVE languages, so...

It will be a HARD work to do if I'll decide to start the project...

Well, if I will start it, I'll definitely post here news about the work in progress!

I'd like to receive further feedback (good and bad), because, as I wrote before, there are a lot of people who think this is just a futile project... confused.gif
post #1917 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.laserdisc.ws View Post


Well, if I will start it, I'll definitely post here news about the work in progress!

I'd like to receive further feedback (good and bad), because, as I wrote before, there are a lot of people who think this is just a futile project... confused.gif

I don't think so! Its a great project to undertake for a fan! Go ahead and keep us posted about it!
Oh and do use the JP DTS laserdisc track, if you find that one. The majority opinion is that it is the original untampered theatrical DTS track!
Edited by Papai2011 - 4/19/13 at 11:47pm
post #1918 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papai2011 View Post

I don't think so! Its a great project to undertake for a fan! Go ahead and keep us posted about it!
Oh and do use the JP DTS laserdisc track, if you find that one. The majority opinion is that it is the original untampered theatrical DTS track!

I DO have JP DTS, and if I'll start the project, it WILL be used for sure!

Well, one positive feedback! Any other is interested?!?
post #1919 of 1995
I discovered that the 3D BD has at least one scene that was cut: when T-Rex starts to eat a gallimimus, the 3D BD has at least a six second cut, in comparison to PAL laserdisc, PAL DVD and NTSC DTS laserdisc... are there any other known cut?
post #1920 of 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.laserdisc.ws View Post

I discovered that the 3D BD has at least one scene that was cut: when T-Rex starts to eat a gallimimus, the 3D BD has at least a six second cut, in comparison to PAL laserdisc, PAL DVD and NTSC DTS laserdisc... are there any other known cut?

Can you provide a screenshot comparison?
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