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Sony Vegas Pro 10 - Advice Needed Editing MTS Files

post #1 of 17
6/4/11 at 10:35pm
Thread Starter 
I've decided to buy Sony Vegas Pro 10 when my free trial is up.
Does anyone have any reccomended settings so that I can get the highest possible quality file output on it?
For some reason when I save in various formats the bitrate will spike very high just like it did with my Panasonics TM900 files. But I am using a Canon HF G10.
Also should I save as an .mp4 with a high bitrate? That seems to be the best setting I can get.
The thing is the raw files do not spike and remain around 24Mbps on my PS3 but after making 2 cuts and saving at say 22Mbps it will spike as high as 42Mbps before the PS3 crashes.

Also SVP10 seems to want to stick with a progressive format if the bitrate increases. I can't seem to get it to do 60i at 21Mbps. It just will not do it. I can make everything 30p which it seems happy to do but not 60i for some reason.

I could really use some helpful advice.
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post #2 of 17
6/5/11 at 8:06am
Have you tried the "custom" settings in the menu for each format?? There, you can change just about every aspect of those "templates".
For example, when you chose to render in MP4, you get the template dialogue, but there is also a "custom" button-hit that button and it will allow you to change virtually all the settings.

If it won't allow you to change one of the settings, then rendering in that format, with what you are trying to do, is not possible. Pick another format-maybe an intermediate format, render that, then re-render to the final codec.

I think by default, anything that is interlaced and dropped into the Vegas time line, will automatically be rendered progressive.
However, if you look at BDV(blue ray disc) format, it will allow you to create a 60i container, because that is the standard for Blue Ray. Also, bit rates higher than about 23?/mb/second, are not handled well by BDV, or the Playstation(which, I think is what you want to play the video on?).

So, try the BDV render option, then select "custom" from that template and try it there.

EDIT; I couldn't figure it out either. When you chose Sony AVC-chose Blue Ray disk 1980X1024 and 60i-then go into the custom menu. One of the first things you will see is a drop down box that says "video format"...change this from AVC to AVCHD-this will allow you more latitude in controlling the bit rate. From what I've read about the PS3-it likes the bit rates to be at or under 23 mb/second. So, render the file with a lower bit rate than that, and try it.
To create a 60i file from a 60P file is going to require you to reverse-telecine the file. For that, you need NeoScene. Download the trial version and see if will let you do what you want to do. The other option with your camera, is to shoot in 60i.......
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post #3 of 17
6/5/11 at 12:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by havasuvideo View Post

Have you tried the "custom" settings in the menu for each format?? There, you can change just about every aspect of those "templates".
For example, when you chose to render in MP4, you get the template dialogue, but there is also a "custom" button-hit that button and it will allow you to change virtually all the settings.

If it won't allow you to change one of the settings, then rendering in that format, with what you are trying to do, is not possible. Pick another format-maybe an intermediate format, render that, then re-render to the final codec.

I think by default, anything that is interlaced and dropped into the Vegas time line, will automatically be rendered progressive.
However, if you look at BDV(blue ray disc) format, it will allow you to create a 60i container, because that is the standard for Blue Ray. Also, bit rates higher than about 23?/mb/second, are not handled well by BDV, or the Playstation(which, I think is what you want to play the video on?).

So, try the BDV render option, then select "custom" from that template and try it there.

EDIT; I couldn't figure it out either. When you chose Sony AVC-chose Blue Ray disk 1980X1024 and 60i-then go into the custom menu. One of the first things you will see is a drop down box that says "video format"...change this from AVC to AVCHD-this will allow you more latitude in controlling the bit rate. From what I've read about the PS3-it likes the bit rates to be at or under 23 mb/second. So, render the file with a lower bit rate than that, and try it.
To create a 60i file from a 60P file is going to require you to reverse-telecine the file. For that, you need NeoScene. Download the trial version and see if will let you do what you want to do. The other option with your camera, is to shoot in 60i.......


I have a Canon HF G10 so it's already 60i not 60p.
I'll try your settings, you are correct the PS3 doesn't like high bitrates. It maxes out around 42mbps and then will crash down to 8-12Mbps until you stop and restart the video.
I have a 60i template set for 23Mbps but it spikes to 42Mbps! I set up one that is 20Mbps but it wants it set as 59.94 progressive for some reason and that one renders pretty well and it doesn't spike.
So you use CABAC or CALVC? High, Main or Baseline?
I hope they come up with fix for these high bitrate files
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post #4 of 17
6/5/11 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

I have a Canon HF G10 so it's already 60i not 60p.
I'll try your settings, you are correct the PS3 doesn't like high bitrates. It maxes out around 42mbps and then will crash down to 8-12Mbps until you stop and restart the video.
I have a 60i template set for 23Mbps but it spikes to 42Mbps! I set up one that is 20Mbps but it wants it set as 59.94 progressive for some reason and that one renders pretty well and it doesn't spike.
So you use CABAC or CALVC? High, Main or Baseline?
I hope they come up with fix for these high bitrate files

CALVC, Main....
If it wants to use 59fps, let it....
Basically, you just want it to play on the PS3, and the only problem you are having is the high bit-rate, correct??
You can force lower bit-rates in the custom render screen. Set you minimum at around 10,000,000, max at around 30,000,000, and average at around 25,000,000, and see what you get.

Quote:


the recordable Blu-ray Disc standard's initial data rate of 36 Mbit/s is more than adequate to record high-definition broadcasts from any source (IPTV, cable/satellite, or terrestrial). BD Video movies have a maximum data transfer rate of 54 Mbit/s

The above quote is from Wikipedia. As a general rule, I've heard of average bit-rates being around 23Mb/second.

60i can be pretty frustrating to work with. I'm not that up on the PS3 playing ability.
So, I'm just suggesting some things to try to see if you can get it to play.

I thought in the other thread, you just wanted to trim the video, leave it as what it was recorded at(60i?), and render to mts. Well, I tried that with a 60P file I had from my since sold TM700, and it wouldn't do it-just crashed with a screen saying it can't do that.

There are a lot of templates in Sony Vegas, and each one of them has sub-templates you can change via the custom settings button. However, it will only let you do so much-and sometimes it looks like your good to go, and it crashes.
Good luck.
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post #5 of 17
6/5/11 at 4:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by havasuvideo View Post

CALVC, Main....
If it wants to use 59fps, let it....
Basically, you just want it to play on the PS3, and the only problem you are having is the high bit-rate, correct??
You can force lower bit-rates in the custom render screen. Set you minimum at around 10,000,000, max at around 30,000,000, and average at around 25,000,000, and see what you get.


The above quote is from Wikipedia. As a general rule, I've heard of average bit-rates being around 23Mb/second.

60i can be pretty frustrating to work with. I'm not that up on the PS3 playing ability.
So, I'm just suggesting some things to try to see if you can get it to play.

I thought in the other thread, you just wanted to trim the video, leave it as what it was recorded at(60i?), and render to mts. Well, I tried that with a 60P file I had from my since sold TM700, and it wouldn't do it-just crashed with a screen saying it can't do that.

There are a lot of templates in Sony Vegas, and each one of them has sub-templates you can change via the custom settings button. However, it will only let you do so much-and sometimes it looks like your good to go, and it crashes.
Good luck.


I tried that and set it as you said except there is no minimum bitrate setting.
So I set Max to 30Mbps and Average to 22Mbps
It played like 24p on my PC but on the PS3 there was no picture.
What I need to do is cut out the stuff that shouldn't be there like me saying "ok, shut the camera off" or things getting in the shot that shouldn't or just editing out mistakes and then rendering it.
For now I just want simple as I don't want lossy quality.
Sure I'd like to do effects and the like but not at the expense of quality.
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post #6 of 17
6/5/11 at 4:45pm
that's what editing is-cutting out what you don't want. and it sounds like vegas can't do it.
you might try the software that comes with the panasonic camera's if you have it-hd writer i think is what its called.
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post #7 of 17
6/5/11 at 5:07pm
"I hope they come up with fix for these high bitrate files"

I have seen this compliant a number of times, and I don't get it - high bitrates are desirable. The GH1 was hacked to get bitrates, as high as 70Mbps. What is needed is a fix for your playing problem.

Here is my advice:

1. If you want lossless editing, get Corel Vidoe Studio X4. It does smart rendering of mts files so there will be no loss from trimming and combining, except at the edit points.

2. This "high bitrate" problem you claim the PS3 has that is preventing you from enjoying good quality (28Mbps and higher AVC videos) has a very simple solution: get a Sony bluray player and play your highest bitrta files through the usb port. You can get the cheapest player, just over $100. The days when the PS3 was at the fronteir for video are over, done, If you have invested so much money in a top currentcamcorder, why hold yourself back wit this archaic playing hardware.

Maybe I missed something, but it seems to me going for a $500 editor makes no sense when you can get a $70 editor and a $140 bluray player and get everything you want - lossless mts editing and ability to play the highest bitrates (a good thing).
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post #8 of 17
6/5/11 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post


2. This "high bitrate" problem you claim the PS3 has that is preventing you from enjoying good quality (28Mbps and higher AVC videos) has a very simple solution:

I have a ps3 and I can't say i have bitrate issues at all. The Blu Ray spec allows for a max of about 48Mb/s, and I have seen it go to 45 with no issues at all.

If you want higher than that then you can't put it on Blu Ray because you're now beyond the Blu Ray spec.
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post #9 of 17
6/5/11 at 8:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

"I hope they come up with fix for these high bitrate files"

I have seen this compliant a number of times, and I don't get it - high bitrates are desirable. The GH1 was hacked to get bitrates, as high as 70Mbps. What is needed is a fix for your playing problem.

Here is my advice:

1. If you want lossless editing, get Corel Vidoe Studio X4. It does smart rendering of mts files so there will be no loss from trimming and combining, except at the edit points.

2. This "high bitrate" problem you claim the PS3 has that is preventing you from enjoying good quality (28Mbps and higher AVC videos) has a very simple solution: get a Sony bluray player and play your highest bitrta files through the usb port. You can get the cheapest player, just over $100. The days when the PS3 was at the fronteir for video are over, done, If you have invested so much money in a top currentcamcorder, why hold yourself back wit this archaic playing hardware.

Maybe I missed something, but it seems to me going for a $500 editor makes no sense when you can get a $70 editor and a $140 bluray player and get everything you want - lossless mts editing and ability to play the highest bitrates (a good thing).


Yeah, I guess you are right I do need to upgrade my player from the PS3.
The Sony BDP-580 is on sale for like $170 it's supposed to be able to handle the higher bitrates.
I'm downloading Corel right now and hopefully it will work easily. I love the way SVP10 works but I want high quality files and to be able to play them..
My wife is not keen on all the cash I am spending but no choice.
So do the Sony Blu-Ray players support up to 70Mbps?!
Thanks for the suggestions Mark.
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post #10 of 17
6/5/11 at 8:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney View Post

I have a ps3 and I can't say i have bitrate issues at all. The Blu Ray spec allows for a max of about 48Mb/s, and I have seen it go to 45 with no issues at all.

If you want higher than that then you can't put it on Blu Ray because you're now beyond the Blu Ray spec.


Wow really? Mine will crash ifit gets too high. I can see when it spikes and soon after the bitrate plummets and stays low until you stop and restart the file say with the X button.
I just want the same quality as I am getting originally.
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post #11 of 17
6/5/11 at 8:41pm
I agree 100%. I use Corel Videostudio x4 too. I tried Adobe premiere pro and cyberlink's Power Director. Adobe is to complicated and not all in one. PD is super fast rendering but crashed every 30 min. Seriously.
Videostudio does all I need. I prefer burning AVCHD DVD5 discs. Higher quality than mp4 and cheaper. The video time is shorter but I'm not charging admission and making popcorn.
It took me some time to accept that a $50 software was actually better for my needs. I think it's a perfect match for AVCHD prosumer camcorder editing and rendering.
Takes me 2.5 min to render 1 min video to AVCHD 22700 Mbps file on an AMD Phenom II x4 955. 4.5 on my laptop x4 n970. Newegg= $630

Good luck!
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post #12 of 17
6/5/11 at 9:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icyman View Post

I agree 100%. I use Corel Videostudio x4 too. I tried Adobe premiere pro and cyberlink's Power Director. Adobe is to complicated and not all in one. PD is super fast rendering but crashed every 30 min. Seriously.
Videostudio does all I need. I prefer burning AVCHD DVD5 discs. Higher quality than mp4 and cheaper. The video time is shorter but I'm not charging admission and making popcorn.
It took me some time to accept that a $50 software was actually better for my needs. I think it's a perfect match for AVCHD prosumer camcorder editing and rendering.
Takes me 2.5 min to render 1 min video to AVCHD 22700 Mbps file on an AMD Phenom II x4 955. 4.5 on my laptop x4 n970. Newegg= $630

Good luck!


I've been using it and so far I can't figure out squat with Corel. You can't cut anything and all it allows you to do is save at 720 and nothing seems to fix that.
This is the least intuitive and frustrating software I've ever used next to Adobe and even that was a bit easier to figure out.
If it's great I can't see how to edit anything.
It looks like you just split the file over and over and god only knows how you'd join it since I didn't see a join command.
This might actually be great if I could get some info on it, but even YouTube offers little help for it.

Is there a video tutorial that shows you how to do simple edits and custom saves?
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post #13 of 17
6/6/11 at 4:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post
I've been using it and so far I can't figure out squat with Corel. You can't cut anything and all it allows you to do is save at 720 and nothing seems to fix that.
This is the least intuitive and frustrating software I've ever used next to Adobe and even that was a bit easier to figure out.
If it's great I can't see how to edit anything.
It looks like you just split the file over and over and god only knows how you'd join it since I didn't see a join command.
This might actually be great if I could get some info on it, but even YouTube offers little help for it.

Is there a video tutorial that shows you how to do simple edits and custom saves?
well, as with any new software, even if it is intuitive, it still has a learning curve. I was successful in finding what I needed form google and youtube. but I think there is a tutorial in the program. when it starts there is a pop up window(info window), click on "Learn". You can also click on "Help" with lots of reading.
when editing a clip, you can edit the individual clip or edit as a whole movie. I prefer to use 'split'. then I right click on the segment I want to remove. May not be the best way I want to do it but it works. I don't 'Join' the files as such. after I'm done editing everything, I render the video. I've rendered to DVD, AVCHD-DVD5 and mp4(for youtube). If you are trying to join the files together and keep it in the .mts format, I've never tried to do that and don't know if it will. I don't see the point as it's an unusable format for me.
What I like about videostudio is the import feature with different folders. I can keep my different project/recordings separated and within each folder there are "subfolders" for video, pictures and audio. I can pick which subfolder that I want displayed, one, two or all.

I spent about 5 hours learning a making my first 4 minute video. I think we should start a videostudio thread.
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post #14 of 17
6/6/11 at 8:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icyman View Post
well, as with any new software, even if it is intuitive, it still has a learning curve. I was successful in finding what I needed form google and youtube. but I think there is a tutorial in the program. when it starts there is a pop up window(info window), click on "Learn". You can also click on "Help" with lots of reading.
when editing a clip, you can edit the individual clip or edit as a whole movie. I prefer to use 'split'. then I right click on the segment I want to remove. May not be the best way I want to do it but it works. I don't 'Join' the files as such. after I'm done editing everything, I render the video. I've rendered to DVD, AVCHD-DVD5 and mp4(for youtube). If you are trying to join the files together and keep it in the .mts format, I've never tried to do that and don't know if it will. I don't see the point as it's an unusable format for me.
What I like about videostudio is the import feature with different folders. I can keep my different project/recordings separated and within each folder there are "subfolders" for video, pictures and audio. I can pick which subfolder that I want displayed, one, two or all.

I spent about 5 hours learning a making my first 4 minute video. I think we should start a videostudio thread.

I've spent a great many hours learning SVP10 so 5 hours isn't bad.
I just need it to be able to Render in the same format lossless.
I've been overdoing it what with work and learning all these new programs.
The formats I care aboout are the ones that work for me and where I can play the originals. If I want to dumb it down for YouTube, no point in uploading what no one will see anyway then that's different.
I'll play around with this after my brain cools down as see if I can figure it out a bit more.
I agree we could use a Video Studio Thread It has to be posted with a title that will make people want to use it and not just get lost in the clutter.
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post #15 of 17
6/6/11 at 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

I've spent a great many hours learning SVP10 so 5 hours isn't bad.
I just need it to be able to Render in the same format lossless.
I've been overdoing it what with work and learning all these new programs.
The formats I care aboout are the ones that work for me and where I can play the originals. If I want to dumb it down for YouTube, no point in uploading what no one will see anyway then that's different.
I'll play around with this after my brain cools down as see if I can figure it out a bit more.
I agree we could use a Video Studio Thread It has to be posted with a title that will make people want to use it and not just get lost in the clutter.

Hi Steve, Sony Vegas should be able to do what you want. Unfortunatly I am only a novice with the software. There are some helpfull people at Creative Cow. If you come up with a solution plese let us all know. Thanks
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post #16 of 17
6/7/11 at 12:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladnar2 View Post

Hi Steve, Sony Vegas should be able to do what you want. Unfortunatly I am only a novice with the software. There are some helpfull people at Creative Cow. If you come up with a solution plese let us all know. Thanks


Sony Vegas is great. I did find a solution. I used Power Director 9 and edited the Profile.ini file to get the bitrate I wanted. What I have is as close as I am going to get to the original and I have capped the bitrate at 30Mbps and it no longer crashes on the PS3.
i'm going to try some TM900 files and see if I can get them to look great and not crash.
I've also sorted out all my old 320x200 avi files from way back. Yes they went from 61MB to 400MB but they are joined and look exactly the same as the originals.
I'm ging to experiment more later but for now this works and it's pretty easy.
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post #17 of 17
6/9/11 at 5:32pm
Thread Starter 
Ok I took some really old 320x240 15fps motion jpegs from my old Canon S400 P&S and edited them a bit with Vegas Pro. These are basically very early SD only videos but I thought I'd post it on here so my editing techniques could be ripped apart.

I would be interested in any comments other than 320x240 sucks. That's all I had when I lived over there so it's what I used.

This video is mostly a test of preserving the really old stuff and when I do the 1080i videos I should have it nailed down a bit better.
Also my first time doing a conversion and adding a sound track.

Let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOTnfeiGHtE
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