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Cambridge Audio Minx Satellite Speakers and Home Theater Systems Discussion Thread - Page 21

post #601 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Your argument is not with me, Jim, but with the facts (e.g. rhythm in Shakespeare) and the opinions of countless people whose lives are all about language and literature.

There really are no facts associated to an individuals interpretation of an art form; it's purely subjective, just like our respective opinions. Salvador Dali is considered an artist, but his works seem to be nothing more then a painted version of an acid trip to me. To others I'm sure he's considered brilliant, some of whom probably make their living debating such things. But none of that really means anything to me - I simply don't see in Dali what some others may.

Don't think I'm arguing either; it's just a difference of opinion. That's why there are so many variations of things in this world, because people find a connection in their own unique way. Not feeling the same as another person isn't necessarily an argument. No worries buddy - it's all good. smile.gif
post #602 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Well, so much for my theory of Sub placement. rolleyes.gif
Today, I plan on testing Subwoofer placement (I will be moving them from their current positioning) with a lower crossover point of 150 hz.
post #603 of 1868
"Well, so much for my theory of Sub placement. rolleyes.gif
Today, I plan on testing Subwoofer placement (I will be moving them from their current positioning) with a lower crossover point of 150 hz"

So does that mean no watermelons today? eek.gif
post #604 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

So does that mean no watermelons today? eek.gif

No, I just had to eat it earlier today. biggrin.gif
post #605 of 1868
Thread Starter 
post #606 of 1868
"No. I just had to eat it earlier today."

It's obvious, from that answer, that you're a serious student and practitioner of AV science. eek.gif
Edited by taichi4 - 6/10/12 at 9:43pm
post #607 of 1868
Hey guys, I think I am going to pull the trigger on the Cambridge Mins. I am thinking about going with the 21's for my LCRs and the 11's for the rears.

Receiver wise, I am either going with the Denon 2312 or 1913.

Sub, I was thinking the Polk PSW505.

Can you guys tell me your thoughts about my setup that I would be purchasing, I have a 15x18 room with ten foot ceilings, I listing to 70% movies & TV / 30% music. I have read through most of the posts on this thread, a wealth of information thanks for that, BTW Perpendicular I do not have room for a dual sub setup (LOL). Please let me know your thoughts.
post #608 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Hey guys, I think I am going to pull the trigger on the Cambridge Mins. I am thinking about going with the 21's for my LCRs and the 11's for the rears.
Receiver wise, I am either going with the Denon 2312 or 1913.
Sub, I was thinking the Polk PSW505.
Can you guys tell me your thoughts about my setup that I would be purchasing, I have a 15x18 room with ten foot ceilings, I listing to 70% movies & TV / 30% music. I have read through most of the posts on this thread, a wealth of information thanks for that, BTW Perpendicular I do not have room for a dual sub setup (LOL). Please let me know your thoughts.

Hi and welcome to the CA Minx Thread! I'm going to assume you live somewhere in Europe because, from what I was told, the Min 11 & 21 are not available in North America yet and won't be until sometime this Fall.

As for your setup, either AVR would work. The Polk Sub I'm not too sure about. I would be concerned about the size of the driver trying to keep up with the tiny drivers in the satellites and blending well in frequency response. There are times when I hear my Sub's 8" drivers slightly lagging. That's one of the reasons why I moved the frequency down from 200 to 150 hz today. But enough about me!biggrin.gif I would definitely try and stay with one of CA's own Subs. The X300 would be perfect for your size room. wink.gif
post #609 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Hi and welcome to the CA Minx Thread! I'm going to assume you live somewhere in Europe because, from what I was told, the Min 11 & 21 are not available in North America yet and won't be until sometime this Fall.
As for your setup, either AVR would work. The Polk Sub I'm not too sure about. I would be concerned about the size of the driver trying to keep up with the tiny drivers in the satellites and blending well in frequency response. There are times when I hear my Sub's 8" drivers slightly lagging. That's one of the reasons why I moved the frequency down from 200 to 150 hz today. But enough about me!biggrin.gif I would definitely try and stay with one of CA's own Subs. The X300 would be perfect for your size room. wink.gif

Thanks. As many have mentioned, their subs are rather expensive which is why I wanted to go with a different sub. Could you recommend one other than the polk or cambridge models, I like a little tight boom, I can't stand it when a sub gets distorted. Although, maybe you will find that the polk will do just fine, below are the specs:

Overall Frequency Response 23Hz - 160Hz
Lower -3dB Limit 28Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 125Hz
Crossover Variable low pass 60 - 125Hz, 4th order
Inputs Speaker level 5-way binding posts, line level (filtered) and LFE (unfiltered)
Outputs Speaker level


Oh, and I am in the U.S. I just thought that was all they were selling since that is what's on their website? Stupid me, thanks for letting me know...
post #610 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Thanks. As many have mentioned, their subs are rather expensive which is why I wanted to go with a different sub. Could you recommend one other than the polk or cambridge models, I like a little tight boom, I can't stand it when a sub gets distorted.
Oh, and I am in the U.S. I just thought that was all they were selling since that is what's on their website? Stupid me, thanks for letting me know...

Well, if you don't want distortion, don't get the Polk. Unless it's small, like the X200, it's almost always poor at any frequency, let alone, the very lowest frequencies. I'm almost certain that it will be a poor match with the Min 10, 11, 20 or 21. How much are you willing to spend. The X200 should get you by for a while and who knows, you may like it a lot! It's small but should pack a wallop in your size room.

You're not stupid! It's the manufacturer who should be blamed for poor decision making on availability.
post #611 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Could you recommend one other than the polk or cambridge models, I like a little tight boom, I can't stand it when a sub gets distorted.

The Budget Sub Guru, Jim, should be able to help you with this one. I'm sure he'll poke his head in here tomorrow and give you a recommendation.
post #612 of 1868
I'd strongly consider the Energy S10.3 that newegg has on sale now. Great sub for a great price, but the sale ends today so you'd have to act fast. My only concern would be the S10.3 is starting to run out of steam before the Min 20 is into it's comfort zone. That has the potential of being an issue when trying to set a crossover point.

What's your budget? There may be other alternatives.
post #613 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I'd strongly consider the Energy S10.3 that newegg has on sale now. Great sub for a great price, but the sale ends today so you'd have to act fast. My only concern would be the S10.3 is starting to run out of steam before the Min 20 is into it's comfort zone. That has the potential of being an issue when trying to set a crossover point.
What's your budget? There may be other alternatives.

Thanks for your input! My budget would be about $300 for the sub, I know how important a sub can be to music and HT's. That Energy looks nice, but it looks like it drops off at 120hz, is that right? From what I am gathering, it seems that I would be setting the crossover to about 125hz to 140hz. FYI I am a noob, jumping ship from a Yamaha ysp-1100.
post #614 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Thanks for your input! My budget would be about $300 for the sub, I know how important a sub can be to music and HT's. That Energy looks nice, but it looks like it drops off at 120hz, is that right? From what I am gathering, it seems that I would be setting the crossover to about 125hz to 140hz.

Your new AVR will probably set the Mins to a higher crossover. Just move it down to a lower one. I would recommend you get the larger Min 20's for your front three satellites as a minimum. This way, if you listen at normal levels, you can drop the crossover to 120 hz.
post #615 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Thanks for your input! My budget would be about $300 for the sub, I know how important a sub can be to music and HT's. That Energy looks nice, but it looks like it drops off at 120hz, is that right? From what I am gathering, it seems that I would be setting the crossover to about 125hz to 140hz. FYI I am a noob, jumping ship from a Yamaha ysp-1100.

Hi,

I have done a lot of frustrating searching for a suitable sub for the Min Satellite Speakers & outside of the USA options are limited! So far in The USA, I have found the following "reasonably(?)" possible options:

1) Mirage MM8 & MM6
2) Emotiva X-Ref10 & XRef12
3) NHT B10-d & B12d
4) Most PSB Subwoofers (it seems)
5) Proficient GS10, GS6 & S10
6) Most Pinnacle models
7) EMPTek - all models
8) Earthquake Nova FF10?
9) Dynaudio Sub250
10) B&W AS610
11) Martin Logan Dynamo 700W
12) Anthony Gallo TR1-D & TR3-D (new models with beefier amps)
13) SVS SB12-NSD

There might of course be plenty of others! I am not sure if a subwoofer with a 12" Drive would work well with such small speakers - I notice on the Orb website they state it would probably not unless it was a very high quality one so maybe Jim ando/r Jeff could comment on this. Please bear in mind that my searches were based on a small form factor sub & very preferably sealed+front firing. Most of the above are out of the question for me as the cost to import & taxes & customs fees etc will rape me dry!

I do not know if there is XTZ in the USA but they have a couple of possibly suitable subs - the 99W10.16 & 99W12.16 (love to hear your opinion on these Jim!). Jeff, you wondered about the performance of the BK XLS200 MKII & if it might work well with the Min's considering the feedback they gave me - I have found an online review with the measurements & graphs - maybe Jim & yourself can have a detailed look & see what you think?

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5751-bk-xls200-df-mk2.html

Now, if anyone is coming to London for the Olympics, who will be kind enough in bringing over a couple of X-Ref10's for me!!!

Bazzy!
post #616 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

I have done a lot of frustrating searching for a suitable sub for the Min Satellite Speakers & outside of the USA options are limited! So far in The USA, I have found the following "reasonably(?)" possible options:

You're not kidding - it seems you have been busy. That's quite a list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

There might of course be plenty of others! I am not sure if a subwoofer with a 12" Drive would work well with such small speakers - I notice on the Orb website they state it would probably not unless it was a very high quality one so maybe Jim ando/r Jeff could comment on this. Please bear in mind that my searches were based on a small form factor sub & very preferably sealed+front firing.

I suspect Orb said that because they don't sell a sub with a 12" driver.

As you mentioned a higher quality sub would be necessary, but I think it's doable. My propensity is for acoustic suspension, so that's what I'd be looking for, but I suspect there are some bass reflex that would meld properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Most of the above are out of the question for me as the cost to import & taxes & customs fees etc will rape me dry!

Well now, thanks for the lovely image! eek.gifsmile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

I do not know if there is XTZ in the USA but they have a couple of possibly suitable subs - the 99W10.16 & 99W12.16 (love to hear your opinion on these Jim!).

It's funny you should mention XTZ. Check out this link... wink.gif
post #617 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Well, so much for my theory of Sub placement. rolleyes.gif
Today, I plan on testing Subwoofer placement (I will be moving them from their current positioning) with a lower crossover point of 150 hz.

I still haven't moved the Subs yet. Was testing today with some lower crossover points and you won't believe where (what frequency) I'm testing the Minx now. I won't divulge the information because I may move the Subwoofers from their current position (in a day or two) and more testing takes place.
post #618 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Your new AVR will probably set the Mins to a higher crossover. Just move it down to a lower one. I would recommend you get the larger Min 20's for your front three satellites as a minimum. This way, if you listen at normal levels, you can drop the crossover to 120 hz.


Sorry for the delay, I have been out of town. I am planning on getting the three 20's for the fronts and two 10's for the rears, hopefully it will sound good, or would you say just go with 20's all around, if so, for what reasons.

I did get your email, just doing more research thanks...
post #619 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi,
I have done a lot of frustrating searching for a suitable sub for the Min Satellite Speakers & outside of the USA options are limited! So far in The USA, I have found the following "reasonably(?)" possible options:
1) Mirage MM8 & MM6
2) Emotiva X-Ref10 & XRef12
3) NHT B10-d & B12d
4) Most PSB Subwoofers (it seems)
5) Proficient GS10, GS6 & S10
6) Most Pinnacle models
7) EMPTek - all models
8) Earthquake Nova FF10?
9) Dynaudio Sub250
10) B&W AS610
11) Martin Logan Dynamo 700W
12) Anthony Gallo TR1-D & TR3-D (new models with beefier amps)
13) SVS SB12-NSD
There might of course be plenty of others! I am not sure if a subwoofer with a 12" Drive would work well with such small speakers - I notice on the Orb website they state it would probably not unless it was a very high quality one so maybe Jim ando/r Jeff could comment on this. Please bear in mind that my searches were based on a small form factor sub & very preferably sealed+front firing. Most of the above are out of the question for me as the cost to import & taxes & customs fees etc will rape me dry!
I do not know if there is XTZ in the USA but they have a couple of possibly suitable subs - the 99W10.16 & 99W12.16 (love to hear your opinion on these Jim!). Jeff, you wondered about the performance of the BK XLS200 MKII & if it might work well with the Min's considering the feedback they gave me - I have found an online review with the measurements & graphs - maybe Jim & yourself can have a detailed look & see what you think?
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5751-bk-xls200-df-mk2.html
Now, if anyone is coming to London for the Olympics, who will be kind enough in bringing over a couple of X-Ref10's for me!!!
Bazzy!


I wish I would have done my research before hand, I was just in London a couple of weeks ago...
post #620 of 1868
Since I am somewhat of a noob, I need help deciphering this information. This is a sample spec from a random sub I pulled off the web. The areas in question are below. Any help would be appreciated!

Overall Frequency Response 23Hz - 160Hz
Lower -3dB Limit 28Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 125Hz
Crossover Variable low pass 60 - 125Hz, 4th order


I know a lot of your guys go with the 8" subs, but I would like at least a 10" sub, thoughts?
post #621 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Sorry for the delay, I have been out of town. I am planning on getting the three 20's for the fronts and two 10's for the rears, hopefully it will sound good, or would you say just go with 20's all around, if so, for what reasons.
I did get your email, just doing more research thanks...

FYI: The Mirage MM-8 & Energy ESW M8 are the same subwoofers.

I, myself, use three 20's for the fronts and two 10's for the rears. In the future, I'm thinking of adding four Min 11 satellites and keeping a 20 for the CC. You darn Bazzy! mad.gifbiggrin.gif
post #622 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Since I am somewhat of a noob, I need help deciphering this information. This is a sample spec from a random sub I pulled off the web. The areas in question are below. Any help would be appreciated!
Overall Frequency Response 23Hz - 160Hz
Lower -3dB Limit 28Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 125Hz
Crossover Variable low pass 60 - 125Hz, 4th order
I know a lot of your guys go with the 8" subs, but I would like at least a 10" sub, thoughts?

What you want to look for in a sub is if it has a 12 or 24 db octave rolloff. Or, if you are using an AVR, and from what I understand, is that most perform a rolloff at 12 db. A 12 db rolloff is not as steep and is a gradual rolloff below a set frequency. Right now, I'm experimenting with a 100 hz crossover in my AVR, So, you should be fine at 120 hz on your Denon with the above sub.
post #623 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

FYI: The Mirage MM-8 & Energy ESW M8 are the same subwoofers.
I, myself, use three 20's for the fronts and two 10's for the rears. In the future, I'm thinking of adding four Min 11 satellites and keeping a 20 for the CC. You darn Bazzy! mad.gifbiggrin.gif

What do you think about the 10's in the rear, are you completely happy with your setup?
post #624 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

What you want to look for in a sub is if it has a 12 or 24 db octave rolloff. Or, if you are using an AVR, and from what I understand, is that most perform a rolloff at 12 db. A 12 db rolloff is not as steep and is a gradual rolloff below a set frequency. Right now, I'm experimenting with a 100 hz crossover in my AVR, So, you should be fine at 120 hz on your Denon with the above sub.


Hmmm, a lot of subs specs do not mention a octave roll off? What is that exactly?
post #625 of 1868
Oh yeah, I also ended up getting a Denon 2312 for a good price, 105 discretely pushing watts powering each channel...arh Arh Arh (Tim Allen man grunt)
post #626 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

What do you think about the 10's in the rear, are you completely happy with your setup?

I'm never completely happy....and I'm always looking at room for improvement. wink.gif
post #627 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Hmmm, a lot of subs specs do not mention a octave roll off? What is that exactly?

Too technical for most consumers. So, don't worry about it and let the Room Correction on your AVR do it's thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Oh yeah, I also ended up getting a Denon 2312 for a good price, 105 discretely pushing watts powering each channel...arh Arh Arh (Tim Allen man grunt)

That's great! I saw Amazon's Deal of the Day was the Denon 3312 for half off retail.
post #628 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Too technical for most consumers. So, don't worry about it and let the Room Correction on your AVR do it's thing.
That's great! I saw Amazon's Deal of the Day was the Denon 3312 for half off retail.

I saw the price on the 3312 today also, I can't stand it when you see a better deal after you pull the trigger.

So you think that the sub specs I listed above to run fine with the Mins?

How do the crossover low pass and overall frequency differ?
post #629 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

Crossover Variable low pass 60 - 125Hz, 4th order

This tells me there is a 24 db rolloff.
Does this particular Sub have a bypass or off setting on the crossover?
post #630 of 1868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Roop View Post

I saw the price on the 3312 today also, I can't stand it when you see a better deal after you pull the trigger.

I pulled this off a Denon Thread here on AVS comparing the two AVR's. If you don't see anything on the list you'll use, the 2312 should be fine.

Stepping up from the 2312ci to the 3312ci adds:

* Dual HDMI outputs that can be active simultaneously
* Pre-outs for all channels
* Audyssey DSX with speaker terminals for all 11 speakers (however only 7 can be active at once)
* AL24+ processing on FL/FR channels for greater 2ch music fidelity
* A dedicated PHONO input with pre-amp stage
* HD Radio
* Ability to scale sources to 1080p/24
* Ability to cross-convert analog video signals (e.g. s-video in to component out)
* Enhanced multizone / CI capabilities:
--- 3 zones instead of 2
--- Composite video output to Zone 2
--- Ability to send digital 2.0 PCM audio (optical/coax only, not HDMI) to Zone 2/3
--- dual 12v trigger outs
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