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The Plains Theater - Page 28

post #811 of 959
3/14/13 at 2:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

JPA I had the same problem sourcing my hat channel. There was no writing anywhere and I was only clued in after I noticed that it was not hemmed. After much back and forth I finally had a new batch delivered and I noticed immediately that the old stuff weighed like twice as much. It was not even close. There was also an obvious difference in the flex.

Anyways the point of my post is that my new hat channel has the number stamped on it and it matches up perfectly with the number in teds spec sheet for the hat channel.

So I would order it by giving them the spec numbers and tell them you want it stamped right on there so you can confirm and finally put this to bed.

Had I known it was going to be an issue, I would have done exactly that. Unfortunately, at this point I would have to order about twice as much as I would need in order to get it made. That's what my local supplier finally broke down and suggested.

I ended up weighing a stack of it, and sure enough, 20 twelve foot sticks of the "correct" channel comes in at one or two pounds less than the spec sheet says (I chalked that up to my scales) while the other stuff was just under twice that. So there's no question about the difference.


And Fred, that's exactly how I felt. A geographical oddity smile.gif
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post #812 of 959
3/14/13 at 2:43pm
You could have just come to Atlanta. Of course, I have no idea where to send you to find it near here.
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post #813 of 959
3/14/13 at 2:50pm
Thread Starter 
Don't worry. I'm sure it would still take two weeks, but at least the company would have been much better smile.gif
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post #814 of 959
3/15/13 at 8:06pm
Thread Starter 
I couldn't stand it. I had to do SOMETHING on my vacation. I picked up some 4" insulated flex and routed it to where I THINK my PJ will go. I've already got my conduit and wire for my power bridge up there. Fortunately, if I go with a hushbox I'll have a foot or two wiggle room since the box will cover everything.

Here you can see my new flex, my conduit (the gray pipe), the 14-2 (the white wire back there), and the 22 ga hat channel I'm trying to replace smile.gif



Looking back the other way, I've routed my flex along with everything else back to my equipment closet.



And here's my poor equipment closet. Right now it just has my media server in there along with the other random junk and piles of wire going all over the house.



The dead vent for my powered return will cover the right wall in there. I haven't decided if I will connect that 4" to its own small fan, or if I'll plumb it in with the room return. It will just depend on whether I have any extra capacity and how quiet it is I suppose.

Well, back to my vacation. rolleyes.gif
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post #815 of 959
3/16/13 at 4:08am

The only issue I see with you running the 4" flex pipe through the ceiling to the projector is that you now have a big hole in the ceiling for sound to get in and out of the room.  Is there not a way to run it inside the room through a soffit to the projector area?

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post #816 of 959
3/16/13 at 4:09am
Lookin good JPA!

If you put in a separate PJ fan, have you given any thought to controlling it?

Tim
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post #817 of 959
3/16/13 at 4:29am
The last built I put a boot ont he end of it and it was in the projector box, if you can run it in the soffit, at least you don't have the hole as Nick describes. I put the attic fan temperature switch in the project box and put an inline fan back on the other end of it to draw the heat out. This time around I'm doing the cool cube in the soffit trick (and trying to figure out the best way to connect the 4" to the return line).

Enjoy the vacation.

Bud
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post #818 of 959
3/16/13 at 5:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Well, the hat channel saga continues. Anyone care to venture a guess as to where this is going? smile.gif

Yep, you guessed it. Still no 25 ga. hat channel. I made the drive today to the next drywall supplier. It only took 45 minutes, so a little better than I expected. However, while this place had 25 ga channel, it did not have hemmed edges. FAIL mad.gif

They did point me to another place in the same town, and I figured, "why not; I'm already out here." I found this second place, and nope, they don't have it either. BUT, they at least recognized the stuff. Said they could order it, but they'd have to wait until they had a big enough order to put it on the truck. Hopefully only another three days or so. Baby steps. We're getting there in baby steps smile.gif They did seem surprised that I was using 25 ga on the ceiling. They're familiar with Genie clips, so I don't know if they use 20 ga on the ceiling instead.

I'll admit, there's been more than once that I've started to wonder if the good Lord is trying to tell me something smile.gif If this last place doesn't pan out, I'm probably going to take the hint!

If the good Lord did not want you to have a theater he would have named you Logan! eek.gif Sorry Tom but I had to take the softball that was slow pitched to me there. biggrin.gif Especially since you are again making progress and not harassing as much as usual.

Regards,

RTROSE
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post #819 of 959
3/16/13 at 5:41am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the input guys!

I don't intend to use the 4" unless I put in a hush box. My thought is the hush box will be a mini soundproofed container, so the hole in the ceiling should be isolated. Right now, everything is tucked back up in the ceiling out of the way. Do you guys still feel like it would be a problem for my isolation?

I've only thought about controlling the hush box fan in passing. As mentioned, something like a temp switch in the hush box, or possibly just a relay to turn it on when the PJ is on. I'm open to all the suggestions I can get, though smile.gif

RT, I hope you're right about that! I'm known for not taking hints, so I've been wondering a little lately. biggrin.gif
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post #820 of 959
3/16/13 at 6:41am

If you bring the 4" duct between the joists like you have it now and through the ceiling above the projector, it will be a problem.  Sound will come in and out of the theater through this hole.  Where would you put the hush box?  It would need to be built between the joists and sealed at the ceiling where it comes through.

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post #821 of 959
3/16/13 at 7:22am
Thread Starter 
It sounds like you are describing something like a backer box for a can light. I was thinking that a ceiling mounted hush box enclosing the PJ made from two layers of MDF+GG would essentially be a decorative "backer box" inside the room. Aside from the porthole (which may make keep this from working) it seemed like the hush box would provide the sound isolation for the PJ vent.
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post #822 of 959
3/16/13 at 7:27am
You need to use thermostatic control. Most projectors run a couple mins after you turn them off to cool down.

I put a temp probe over my exhaust duct so once it quits blowing the fans turn off.
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post #823 of 959
3/16/13 at 7:29am
I feel like your solution J_P_A is pretty good. It's probably the normal way to do it, and should be good. That said, I have been imagining mine where the hush box basically in continuous with the soffit, so that the exhaust can be within the room and exit from within a better-isolated soffit structure, instead of from the hush box directly.
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post #824 of 959
3/16/13 at 7:40am
The only week point I see in the hush box is the opening for the lens. How does one work around that aspect of the hush box? Will just thick glass work, or is the opening so small it makes little difference?

Regards,

RTROSE
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post #825 of 959
3/16/13 at 8:12am
Thread Starter 
Nick, good point!

Fred, I originally wanted to connect my hush box to the soffit as well. Unfortunately, my PJ will be at 18' and my soffit will be at something like 25'. Side to side is not as far, but it's still several feet away. I haven't ruled that out, though. Just trying to give myself options smile.gif

RT, yep, the opening at the front is a problem. I was planning to use some low loss glass up there, but it will not provide much sound isolation. It will certainly complicate the box design.

I'm open to suggestions biggrin.gif
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post #826 of 959
3/16/13 at 8:31am
If there is an improvement to be made, short of keeping the vent inside the room, building a soffit extension for the 6 or so feet between the hush box and the soffit, maybe it's to build that same structure, inside the joist bay. It would be a decoupled, DD, GG plenum of sorts, connecting the top of the hush box to the top of the soffit.
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post #827 of 959
3/16/13 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

I've only thought about controlling the hush box fan in passing. As mentioned, something like a temp switch in the hush box, or possibly just a relay to turn it on when the PJ is on. I'm open to all the suggestions I can get, though smile.gif

Make sure you have a standard HVAC 2--wire or an extra pair on one of your Cat-5s to extend the thermostat wire if the lead is not that long.

I just got back from more weeks of work travel and catching up here on the Forum....you've made some very nice progress! I'll have some posts in my thread soon enough as I am on a 4 week travel moratorium until our little one comes along. I'll have to burn the extra time somehow and, like you, why not in the theater, right?? smile.gif
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post #828 of 959
3/16/13 at 12:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

If there is an improvement to be made, short of keeping the vent inside the room, building a soffit extension for the 6 or so feet between the hush box and the soffit, maybe it's to build that same structure, inside the joist bay. It would be a decoupled, DD, GG plenum of sorts, connecting the top of the hush box to the top of the soffit.

That's an interesting idea. I'll have to think on that a bit. Maybe spend some time staring at it. I will say that I'm still holding out hope that I can come up with something to allow me to run my duct inside the room. I want to get the room drywalled and my riser in to see how much head height I can sacrifice without it being obtrusive. I've been toying with the idea of a sort of faux coffered ceiling using some very minimal trim to hide some rope lighting. If I do that, I may be able to squeeze in a 2" by 4" hollow cavity that I could use as a duct for the hushbox. But again, I want to get an idea of just how crowded my ceiling is going to feel back there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Make sure you have a standard HVAC 2--wire or an extra pair on one of your Cat-5s to extend the thermostat wire if the lead is not that long.

I just got back from more weeks of work travel and catching up here on the Forum....you've made some very nice progress! I'll have some posts in my thread soon enough as I am on a 4 week travel moratorium until our little one comes along. I'll have to burn the extra time somehow and, like you, why not in the theater, right?? smile.gif

I have an extra thermostat wire in the theater JIK, and I've got CAT 6 run to just about everywhere in the house. With the conduit there, I can always pull the extra wire for the temp unit.

I think I've mentioned it before, but try to get some rest before the baby gets here! I was exhausted when our first son got here and it made the first several weeks TOUGH. Pay attention to mama, too. This is going to sound like a wive's tale or something, but my wife went from having loads of energy to wanting to take naps the last couple days before our first son was born. I still contend it was her body prepping for the big day smile.gif Keep us updated! Oh, and keep us updated on the theater front, too tongue.gif
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post #829 of 959
3/16/13 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

It sounds like you are describing something like a backer box for a can light. I was thinking that a ceiling mounted hush box enclosing the PJ made from two layers of MDF+GG would essentially be a decorative "backer box" inside the room. Aside from the porthole (which may make keep this from working) it seemed like the hush box would provide the sound isolation for the PJ vent.

 

That makes sense.  I was thinking you were just going to have an open box with the vent pulling air in above the projector.  If you use the double wall construction, it will be much quieter.  As far as the lens hole letting sound in, do you have enough room to make the box wider and force the air to wind through a couple of turns to help control the sound a bit more before it goes up through the duct?

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post #830 of 959
3/16/13 at 3:45pm
Thread Starter 
Oh yes! There's plenty of real estate up there smile.gif. I was sort of thinking that too, but I don't remember seeing anyone else do it. So I have no idea how well it would work.
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post #831 of 959
3/16/13 at 5:50pm
JPA, why did you decide not to use the rectangular bump out at the back of the theater for a projector booth? That whole room could be the hushbox. If you ran supply & return to the room, it could be completely sealed off as best possible.

You have had made some good progress. Catching up wink.gif
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post #832 of 959
3/16/13 at 6:12pm
Thread Starter 
That was the original plan. Unfortunately, that puts the lens around 27'. Just too far away, I'm afraid. Ill already be pushing it for enough light output. It would have been ideal, though smile.gif
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post #833 of 959
3/16/13 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

I'm still holding out hope that I can come up with something to allow me to run my duct inside the room. I want to get the room drywalled and my riser in to see how much head height I can sacrifice without it being obtrusive.
Are you saying you'll open the ceiling after you build the riser if you can't keep the vent in the soffit? Or do you think you'll build with the 4" duct you've just placed and consider sealing it off if it proves superfluous? Both approaches have their draw backs.
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post #834 of 959
3/16/13 at 9:13pm
Thread Starter 
I'm planning to attach that 4" conduit to a sort of mini backer box on the back of my ply where the PJ will go. I'm going to do the same with my conduit and a box for an electrical box. However, I'm not planning to cut out the opening in my plywood, so these will be in my ceiling attached to the back of the ply but not penetrate the ceiling. Once I've verified where my PJ will go, all I have to do is cut out the DW and ply just large enough for the opening in the backer boxes.

If I decide not to use the 4", I'm just out the cost of the flex, but no impact to my soundproofing. If I do use it, the opening is still only 4" (and ill only do that if I have a hush box).

I haven't mentioned all that before because its a little hard to explain without pictures smile.gif
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post #835 of 959
3/16/13 at 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

That was the original plan. Unfortunately, that puts the lens around 27'. Just too far away, I'm afraid. Ill already be pushing it for enough light output. It would have been ideal, though smile.gif

There are projectors with interchangeable lenses. Like DSLR camera. You pick the size screen you want and the throw distance and they equip the projector with the appropriate lens. What size screen did you settle on, and what projector are you considering?
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post #836 of 959
3/17/13 at 5:19am
Thread Starter 
I think my first post got lost in the Internet ether, so let me try again smile.gif

I had no idea that PJs with interchangeable lenses existed. I usually spend most of my time in this forum, but I don't think I've seen it mentioned before. Off to Googles smile.gif

I've been looking at the Epson 6020 and the Panny AE8000 with a 144" wide screen.
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post #837 of 959
3/17/13 at 8:05am
^^^^^Regarding the interchangeable lenses. I have not a clue, but I would haphazzard a guess they are the uber expensive (to me anyway as any PJ over 3-4k is expensive and 10-11k is starting in the uber expensive range) as I do see these PJ in business and especially in religious environments where they are projecting from say 50 to 100 feet away. I know my church has huge PJ's that have probably 5000-10000 lumens with very odd looking lenses. I would guess they are more than 3k in price. biggrin.gif

I have the Epson 8350 and Vik, has the Epson 6020. Having seen Vik's I can say that you could spend a lot more money and achieve very little extra performance, it is a fantastic PJ and the image is stunning. If I were to go with an "upgrade" I would step up to the 6020 without hesitation or reservation. I do truly think that you would have to spend many thousands of dollars more to get a "significant" increase in performance.

Regards,

RTROSE
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post #838 of 959
3/17/13 at 8:56am
Thread Starter 
I immediately saw dollar signs when I read that, too. But it doesn't hurt to look into it. I really like the performance/$ of the 6020 (at least from what I've read), and really, the only reason to consider other options would be to find one that I could mount at the back of the room. I just don't know that I'm willing to shell out $25 k on one right now considering the age of all of our cars smile.gif
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post #839 of 959
3/18/13 at 6:53pm
I think the interchangeable lens models start in the high teens. JVC had one a while back, it listed for $18k. Current ones would be single chip DLP which not everyone likes.

I put the models and the screen width into the PJ Central calculator and it looked like you would have plenty of room to spare on your throw. Do you run out because you're going to use an a-lens to help with the light? Or are you trying to get closer to pick up some brightness? The light level did seem quite low and their numbers don't factor in lower light output from D65 or bulb aging.

The Sony vw1000 might work well for you. I think it is also teens, but I haven't checked lately. In the calculator it comes out higher brightness at long throw than the Epson. Not sure if that's a mistake or due to the difference in optics.
Edited by rabident - 3/18/13 at 7:49pm
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post #840 of 959
3/18/13 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

I put the models and the screen width into the PJ Central calculator and it looked like you would have plenty of room to spare on your throw. Do you run out because you're going to use an a-lens to help with the light? Or are you trying to get closer to pick up some brightness? The light level did seem quite low and their numbers don't factor in lower light output from D65 or bulb aging.

The Sony vw1000 might work well for you. I think it is also teens, but I haven't checked lately. In the calculator it comes out higher brightness at long throw than the Epson. Not sure if that's a mistake or due to the difference in optics.

There was some discussion in this thread a number of posts ago on this exact issue. The Epson is 2400 lumens, the Sony is 2000. Given the huge screen JPA wants to install, that leaves little option to put the projector any further back and still reach the 16 or 17 ft. lambert recommended calibrated brightness. The projector could go all the way to the back of the room, but it just doesn't have enough lumens to light that screen at that distance. The projected picture would be incredibly dim and lack contrast. There would be a picture...just very unimpressive.
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