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Another Erskine-designed masterpiece (if I don't screw it up). - Page 5

post #121 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post

I wish I needed a ladder to get to my basement ceiling. =(

Ha, tell me about it. After demoing a couple walls, the drywall piled up enough for me to stand on top and rip down the ceiling, LOL!
post #122 of 441
If you have 70 dB at 3 feet from a speaker, at 6 feet you have 64 dB, at 12 feet you have 58 db. With a surround speaker (or LCR for that matter), you end up with a significant difference between the seats as you move across the seats in a row. To reduce this effect, you increase the distance between speakers and the ears so the percentage of the difference in distance between speakers and seats is minimized. This is very problematic in small rooms (residential sized spaces). Where you have a small room, with say, two rows of seats, the back row very near the back wall and the front speakers at ear level, in effect, any money you spent on seating for the back row is wasted (get a better projector).

The above is an over simplification to the extent the rate of decay over distance varies with frequency as well.

So now, back to our regularily scheduled program and let Kris proceed with his room without ulcer generating FUD.
post #123 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngho View Post

No, how would sound processing change the physics of how sound drops off as a function of distance?

fyi -
the inverse square law is only applicable in the absence of reflections or reverb.
post #124 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

Ah. I remember the days of car audio; cross firing horns from foot wells to reduce path length and level differences for improved imaging.

That was the famous Richard Clark technique, right? Or maybe he was just an ardent practitioner.

Quote:


In home theater application I guess this is the exact opposite of di-polar speakers spraying a wash of surround sound to reduce localization.

I have found other autosound "tricks" work for the surrounds, too, even with conventional drivers. Aside from positioning the surrounds above the listeners, which increases the path length to the nearest seats as Richard mentioned, try aiming the direct axis of the speakers toward the furthest seats in the room (from that speaker). It helps reduce both the level and the spectral difference for the overall audience. The closer you sit, the more off-axis.

Line arrays are also a good way to mitigate the distance falloff effect. Toole discusses this in detail in chapter 16.4.4 of his Sound Reproduction book.
post #125 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Make one louder to start, problem is every seating position is different. What you end up with is something that is the result of a weighted averaging process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by localhost127 View Post

fyi -
the inverse square law is only applicable in the absence of reflections or reverb.

Fortunately, there's really no need to respond to posts like these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I have found other autosound "tricks" work for the surrounds, too, even with conventional drivers. Aside from positioning the surrounds above the listeners, which increases the path length to the nearest seats as Richard mentioned, try aiming the direct axis of the speakers toward the furthest seats in the room (from that speaker). It helps reduce both the level and the spectral difference for the overall audience. The closer you sit, the more off-axis.

I believe that this should work even better with speakers with more controlled directivity?

Quote:


Line arrays are also a good way to mitigate the distance falloff effect. Toole discusses this in detail in chapter 16.4.4 of his Sound Reproduction book.

Do you have any suggestions to matching the line array surrounds to the front speakers, or do you suggest the use of line array LCRs?

KBlaw2010, the build looks amazing. I'm really enjoying reading and seeing your updates. I hope you'll be able to post some measurement data after you're done!
post #126 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngho View Post

I believe that this should work even better with speakers with more controlled directivity?

I agree. Smooth off-axis response is very desirable. One particular concept, the concentric tweeter/midrange as in KEF or Tannoy might work well for surrounds as they have smooth off axis response both horizontally and vertically.

Quote:


Do you have any suggestions to matching the line array surrounds to the front speakers, or do you suggest the use of line array LCRs?

I feel line arrays are not necessary for the fronts since in typical theaters the distances are much longer to the LCR than the surrounds.
post #127 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBlaw2010 View Post

We have planned to use 815s for the LCRs, 2 P18s for subs, and P6s for surrounds. We are on schedule to move in and install in early January.

Kris

That's more like it, I knew the (2) P10's, had to be a typo. Two double 18's is getting closer

Great design, nice build, you're going to have a very nice room. congrats on all the progress to date.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I agree. Smooth off-axis response is very desirable. One particular concept, the concentric tweeter/midrange as in KEF or Tannoy might work well for surrounds as they have smooth off axis response both horizontally and vertically.

I listened to some of 12" Tannoys recently, set up as mains. I really did enjoy what they had to offer. I think I'd prefer smaller diameter LF drive unit, if I were using them as surrounds, little less beamy as low as possible. Anyway, I hadn't seen anyone mention Tannoy much, and these were install series, mated with LabGruppen power,....quite the combo. They're doing something right, the MF/HF was wonderfully easy to listen to, even at killer live levels. Regarding coaxials, they've been at it for a long, long time.


Thanks
post #128 of 441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

That's more like it, I knew the (2) P10's, had to be a typo.

Thanks

It wasn't a typo. I was hoping to save some money there originally. But your response was so emphatic, it made me re-evaluate.

Of course, I had to sell one of my kidneys to afford the upgrade, but hey, you only need one, right?

Thanks for helping me get my priorities straight.
post #129 of 441
(subscribed) looks good so far
post #130 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBlaw2010 View Post

It wasn't a typo. I was hoping to save some money there originally. But your response was so emphatic, it made me re-evaluate.

Of course, I had to sell one of my kidneys to afford the upgrade, but hey, you only need one, right?

Thanks for helping me get my priorities straight.

Glad to help. With the previous spec, (4)10"s for that many cubes just wasn't going to cut it for subwoofer duty. You had much more displacement above the crossover, than below. I don't think you're going to regret the increase in capability in that room.

I spent some time with Gerben, discussing several aspects of Procella's line while at CEDIA. Amidst the very hectic atmosphere, he was generous with his time. I enjoyed their room, however most of all, I was pleasantly surprised to see the internal amplifiers on the subwoofers were made by Powersoft. Powersoft, somewhat of a phenom in amplifiers with incredible products that pack record amounts of high quality, bullet proof dsp contoured power into extremely small units. Their K20 is truly an incredible piece in the world of pro audio. 18,000 watts into 4 ohms from a single rack space

I'm looking forward to seeing the continued progress of the space, I'm sure as move in time nears, things will get quite exciting. Again, I really like the design, especially the sidewall config/angles, nice. It's all about the room, and it appears you're in great hands. I only wish I was in a position to begin a new build. Exciting stuff.

Good luck
post #131 of 441
Thread Starter 
The interior framing and electrical passed inspections this week, so we are on to insulation and drywall of the interior walls and ceiling next week.

In the meantime, I got a little more work done. I started putting up Insulsheild Black on the baffle wall and in the projector box. Here are some cell phone pics. Sorry for the quality--I will post better ones later.

400' roll of Insulsheild Black



Baffle Wall



I added the Insulsheild to the inside of the projector box and also made a small shelf inside for a Cool Cube to vent air to the HVAC return.






And I installed an intake diffuser on the other side of the cabinet.

post #132 of 441
Hello, looking at your pictures, can you tell me where I can find that cooling unit? Thank you.
post #133 of 441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccapozzoli View Post

Hello, looking at your pictures, can you tell me where I can find that cooling unit? Thank you.


http://www.activethermal.com/Cool-Cube.htm
post #134 of 441
Thread Starter 
Here are some better photos.

Start of Baffle Wall:





Lighting:



HVAC Supply in front of room:



Cool Cube in PJ cabinet:



post #135 of 441
The boot print is an excellent added touch. LOL
post #136 of 441
What are the speaker backer boxes for?
post #137 of 441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

What are the speaker backer boxes for?

We had to cut into the isolation shell in a couple of places. So, I built the speaker boxes made from double MDF and GG.
post #138 of 441
Thread Starter 
Here are some photos of the insulation in the interior walls and the start of drywall. (Sorry two are side ways. Could not get them to rotate properly)







post #139 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBlaw2010 View Post

Here are some photos of the insulation in the interior walls and the start of drywall. (Sorry two are side ways. Could not get them to rotate properly)

Did the rotozip get away from you? That happened to me more than I care to admit! I finally went to using the handsaw because I could not figure that thing out.

Room is looking good.
post #140 of 441
Really like the tiered lines, nice,....coming together.

Continued good luck
post #141 of 441
Looking good. Where did you get that intake diffuser? Been looking for one like that.

Thanks.
post #142 of 441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragged View Post

Looking good. Where did you get that intake diffuser?

http://nailor.com/onlineCatalog09/CAD-08/CADBLD.pdf
post #143 of 441
Thread Starter 
Drywall crew finished today. I am a very happy boy! Here are the photos:



















post #144 of 441
That tiered look is really going to be sharp - Looking forward to much more !
post #145 of 441
THe drywall crew must really hate you.
post #146 of 441
Lookin great!

Are those nailor diffusers for hvac or bass trapping?
post #147 of 441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post

Are those nailor diffusers for hvac or bass trapping?

They are the HVAC supply. The returns will be cut into the rear soffit. After carpet, we will add two more to the riser to make a bass trap.
post #148 of 441
Looking really good. Can't wait to see more (hint hint ...).

Couldn't see it mentioned in your thread, but what is your ceiling height ??

I'm picking around 11'-12' and each tier is about an 8" drop ??
post #149 of 441
Too cool, looks great. This is going to be one awesome looking room. Probably will not sound that bad either.
post #150 of 441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk8conz View Post

Looking really good. Can't wait to see more (hint hint ...).

Couldn't see it mentioned in your thread, but what is your ceiling height ??

I'm picking around 11'-12' and each tier is about an 8" drop ??

Thanks for the compliments. There has not been much visible progress to photograph recently. We have been in the "planning" stages for the acoustical treatements, fabric, paint colors, carpet, cabinets, etc. I hope to have some good pics to show in the next week or so.

The ceiling of the isolation shell was framed at 12'. After clips, channel, DD, and then the level changes of the tiered ceiling, we average around 10' throughout the room.
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