When small interaxials just don't cut it! - Page 13

Originally Posted by Don Landis

Frank, I agree with that in part. For example, Making a Bloggie with the lenses on opposite sides rather than 3/4" IA could give the Bloggie 3D a range of 2' to 30 ft as opposed to 6" to 12 ft.

However, in the case of the Sony and JVC, expanding the IA would compromise the compactness of the camcorder. I certainly would not desire that.

I can't wait until Tuesday when my second TD 10 arrives. I'll send you a photo of the completed bench with the two mounted when it arrives. Then I start experimenting and learning the new work flow.

I have a completely second use for this system that should blow you away if I can get it to work. It will be original and unique. There is a second part that I want to do with this new use but I don't have the camcorders in my arsenal to test that part of it. If I get the first part working, I will PM you the details on what I would like you to try. I will know shortly after the Lanc sync arrives. Your part of the test will require two Lanc Sync boxes which I think you have, so don't sell them yet.

Originally Posted by Don Landis

Here's a hint- The alignment controls ( bench set screws) play an important part in this and I had to design my bench with additional travel for each camera to make this work. I also spent some time today searching the internet and find nobody doing this.

Originally Posted by Don Landis

Spent most of the day playing with the twin TD10 cams on the bench.

Managed to get two measured tests done and one finalized with the TD10's in 2D mode. I did some varied ranges of 10' 30' 100' 200' and 500' distance. With the 8" IA I could get excellent 3D separation of objects out to beyond 200' but not much beyond 500' I was shooting from the back yard through cuts in the trees. The close up objects were very poor with almost ghost like transparency at 10' but fairly decent at 50' and beyond.

What was very impressive is the range of 100' to 500' as compared to using the TD10 in 3D mode for those same distances that looked almost flat.

The two camcorders were set for full auto in 2D mode and shooting full wide angle. However, I used the grid cross hairs and full zoom at object at 100ft away to do my physical calibration and alignment. I ran into one snag at full telephoto that I needed some brass shims to correct for this test. I am now modifying the bench cam mounts with a rear set screw to fix this. The indoor 10 ft calibration never saw this error but at 100 ft and full telephoto it was out nearly 1/4" in the screen!

Another thing that either I missed in the class on this or it was never covered was that the full high quality PS mode in 2D of the TD10 can not be used for pair as stereoscopic 3D because the only file formats allowed seem to be avi's and AVC. I think the manual says MOV as well. So, I had to render the test shots down to 1080 24p x 1920 AVC file to pair and complete the evaluation.
Frank- what files format and camera settings did you use in your twin TD10 tests?

I do not have the Lanc synchronizer yet so what I did was just start both cams together by hand ( optical stabilizer off ) and then walked in front of the rig with a clap board and later synced with that reference. I shot 3 minutes and it stayed pretty well throughout. I think the camera's auto adjustment speeds may be an issue so maybe once both cams are on target, they might better be switched to manual so there is no drifting by one cam vs. the other.

I'm going to work with the 16" IA files tomorrow to see what they look like. But, based on the results of the 8" I may need to move to a larger 3D distance location like you did on the lake, Frank. My bench allows for up to 24" IA. I can always cut another longer but wanted to keep this rig under 28" long to fit in my suitcase for travel convenience.

Originally Posted by Don Landis

Here's two quick anaglyphs, pretty much the same scene from same camera position. Both in full wide. One is of the 8" IA and the second is one of the TD10's in 3D mode.

It is quite obvious the 8" IA yields lots of negative parallax while not sacrificing distant 3D. The bush with the flowers is about 35 ft away. In the TD10 everything is in positive parallax well behind the screen plane. The 8" IA also preserves the far off z axis separation too.

The originals are 1080 x 1920 of course but AVS made me reduce the size.

Originally Posted by Don Landis

I'm not sure I understand this.

Anyway- Here is the IA 16" image of about the same shooting position and angle. As expected the 16" made the foremost bush a little more ghost like as I think I'm nearing the no-go zone for cameras to subject in the super wide IA. However. I'm seeing quite a bit better separation in the distant objects ( trees) at nearly 100 ft. It's harder to see on the anaglyph but the Vizio looks fantastic ( IMO)

I'll get you a picture soon of the camera mount to the bench. I use the dove tail manfrotto quick disconnect at the center to mount the bench to the tripod head.

Frank- I decided to keep the cameras standard on mounting and just eyeball the alignment although my machining is fairly squared up. Still, I rely on the black knobs to do the actual alignment using the cameras at full telephoto, the grid cross hairs, and a distant target at about 100 ft.

I have everything apart now so I'll shoot come closeups for you to see how my simple mounts are designed.

Later...

Originally Posted by Don Landis

Did you find the IA 16 reversed and the IA 8 OK? When I just grabbed that I thought it was reversed. Should have checked. I think I had my right image on top when I paired them for the IA 16. Sorry.

PS- I did run the auto correct on the paired images. It works pretty slick. I'm very happy so far with the results, and the clap board is working great for sync.

Here are the design details. Easier to show you the pictures than to explain.

Have to leave for a bit to run some errands but I'll pull some SBS's later.

Originally Posted by Joseph Clark

Very cool, Frank. I'll look forward to seeing some footage shot with this setup.

Originally Posted by Don Landis


Frank- Can you tell me how long the Lanc cables are on the Lanc Shepherd? The Manfrotto adapter cables I bought are only 7" and I'm worried that the cables will be too short to reach the cameras when spread to 24" IA.

Frank- I don't understand what the advantage of adding "Manfrottos" between the camcorders and my bracket will do for me. The bracket is quick to install now and adding additional metal seems to me is just adding more weight and assembly time. To mount my cameras requires using two screws, the 1/4-20 hex head and the white knob lock down. I spent quite a bit of time working on simplifying the design so I can quickly set it up and calibrate it in the field with minimum effort. Show me there is an easier way.

Originally Posted by Don Landis

On the Manfrotto mounts- do you have a link or model number I can check out?

Originally Posted by Don Landis

Thanks. What do you think of this as a lower cost alternative?-

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...tem_Quick.html

Originally Posted by Don Landis

The main complaint I have with Manfrotto is they have too many different designs for these quick connect plates. I know of 7 different ones in this camcorder size class alone! ( the size class that uses the single 1/4-20 screw with locating pin) When it comes to Sony pro camera plates. they have 1 that fits all their cameras and camcorders. Even some other brands have adopted the Sony plate for their broadcast cams. Pretty nice considering the camera has to have its base match as there is no plate, just the adapter that mounts to the tripod.
So, if I add three of these manfrotto quick connects to my twin bench I would also need to add one to my monopod and one to my tripod head so I can move from one platform support to another. Too bad Manfrotto doesn't make a base that matches my tripod head so one plate mounted to the camera could fit into several support systems. The purchase count is 4 adapters and one additional camera plate for the SR12. Cost becomes a factor of 4+ quickly.
Decision- I'll stick to the 1/4-20 screw for now. (until field testing proves too much trouble.)

Originally Posted by Joseph Clark

My adjusted stereo base extender is on its way (they're actually sending me a brand new one). I don't expect pixel perfection in a mechanical device such as this, but I've had no need to use the auto calibrate feature in Vegas. How does it work? Is it like the auto featue in Neo, which "zooms in" automatically to align the stereo pairs after you make adjustments?