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Onkyo TX NR709 Owners' Thread - Page 26

post #751 of 2234
1/22/12 at 12:48pm
Hi oleus, FYI some Onkyo x07 model did have wrong mic shipped but can't say about the x09 model. (read press release).
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post #752 of 2234
1/22/12 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Ok, got ya. My 709 is only 2 weeks old, and it came with the silver mic too. After I un-boxed it, I hooked up the HDMI main out to my TV so I would have a GUI, then I installed the latest firmware via USB before another cable was plugged in, or setting was changed. I use Audyssey EQ all the time, and I'm still experimenting with Dynamic EQ...Sometime on, sometimes off. I'm not experiencing what you are.

The latest firmware is 1111 1077 0211 1105
My unit shipped with 1061 0677 0210 8104

thanks d bone - that's the firmware i'm running too. and i guess i can rule out the mic being a problem too.

now...i *did* set up all of my inputs, rename sources, etc, before running the audyssey calibration. and i probably did have another cable plugged into before running the firmware update, are those steps necessary?

wondering if a factory reset would be worth trying.
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post #753 of 2234
1/22/12 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi oleus, FYI some Onkyo x07 model did have wrong mic shipped but can't say about the x09 model. (read press release).

Interesting! thanks JChin!

mine has the silver connector, so it's "correct" but it's interesting nonetheless since i thought maybe a mic issue was involved in this weirdness.. everything sounds great, until i plug in that mic and let it do its "work" :-)
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post #754 of 2234
1/22/12 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

thanks d bone - that's the firmware i'm running too. and i guess i can rule out the mic being a problem too.

now...i *did* set up all of my inputs, rename sources, etc, before running the audyssey calibration. and i probably did have another cable plugged into before running the firmware update, are those steps necessary?

wondering if a factory reset would be worth trying.


I downloaded the manual, and read it cover to cover several times before my unit arrived. At least twice, the manual states that the power cord should be plugged in last, after all connections are made, both cable and speaker.

Before I bought my 709, I read about HDMI failures and the like, so I made sure that my unit was completely and entirely hooked up and moved into place before I powered on the unit.

Maybe a factory reset followed by and update, then power down, then hookup and move into place, followed by a power up would "fix" it? Depending on how hard you unit is to move, and re-cable, I think you would have nothing to lose.


Also, before you do the above, could you describe your mic set up procedure step by step?
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post #755 of 2234
1/22/12 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

I downloaded the manual, and read it cover to cover several times before my unit arrived. At least twice, the manual states that the power cord should be plugged in last, after all connections are made, both cable and speaker.

Before I bought my 709, I read about HDMI failures and the like, so I made sure that my unit was completely and entirely hooked up and moved into place before I powered on the unit.

Maybe a factory reset followed by and update, then power down, then hookup and move into place, followed by a power up would "fix" it? Depending on how hard you unit is to move, and re-cable, I think you would have nothing to lose.


Also, before you do the above, could you describe your mic set up procedure step by step?

first off i did the whole setup / upgrade / audyssey steps on my first 709 with absolutely no issue, but i'm also 99% sure that i hooked every cable up before plugging in the power this time.

also, having done a factory reset on my first unit that had the one surround channel stop working, i don't think the firmware gets reset so i wouldn't be doing the update procedure even if i reset it this time.

as for the mic process, i followed the normal procedure - plugged in the mic, and went through the 8 target points (hovering around ear level on a tripod in my main listening zone). tried it 5 or 6 times yesterday with the same exact super-tinny sounding result, even after resetting the crossovers and channel levels. turning audyssey off on the final attempt brought my 709 back into wonderful sounding greatness.
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post #756 of 2234
1/22/12 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

first off i did the whole setup / upgrade / audyssey steps on my first 709 with absolutely no issue, but i'm also 99% sure that i hooked every cable up before plugging in the power this time.

also, having done a factory reset on my first unit that had the one surround channel stop working, i don't think the firmware gets reset so i wouldn't be doing the update procedure even if i reset it this time.

as for the mic process, i followed the normal procedure - plugged in the mic, and went through the 8 target points (hovering around ear level on a tripod in my main listening zone). tried it 5 or 6 times yesterday with the same exact super-tinny sounding result, even after resetting the crossovers and channel levels. turning audyssey off on the final attempt brought my 709 back into wonderful sounding greatness.

Well, it sounds like you did everything correctly. It has to be something in the way Audyssey is EQing your system. I guess ultimately, if you are happy with the sound with Audyssey off, then that's all that matters.

On my system Audyssey has a huge effect on my bass for the better, but to be honest, from 100hz on up, it sounds good with or without Audyssey engaged. If I had to keep it off, I would be fine with it.
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post #757 of 2234
1/22/12 at 1:34pm
when i checked the eq setting in the menu after doing audyssey it was set to "off", that's normal, right?

i also saw no other way to turn off audyssey other than running the setup again and choosing "off" on the final page that also gives you the dynamic options.
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post #758 of 2234
1/22/12 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

when i checked the eq setting in the menu after doing audyssey it was set to "off", that's normal, right?

i also saw no other way to turn off audyssey other than running the setup again and choosing "off" on the final page that also gives you the dynamic options.


EQ OFF is normal. You can choose the Audyssey curve or OFF, by going to: Set up > Source Setup > Audyssey > Use left right arrow keys to select, Movie, (high end roll off) Music (flat), or OFF

The setting above is kept differently for each and every input, so it is NOT global.
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post #759 of 2234
1/22/12 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

EQ OFF is normal. You can choose the Audyssey curve or OFF, by going to: Set up > Source Setup > Audyssey > Use left right arrow keys to select, Movie, (high end roll off) Music (flat), or OFF

The setting above is kept differently for each and every input, so it is NOT global.

thanks - just did a quick test to turn audyssey back on and it's crazy how it sounds compared to it off. whatever the glitch is, it has a massive impact on the sound.

it's almost like the center channel's phase is being inverted
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post #760 of 2234
1/22/12 at 2:17pm
Are your speakers 8ohms? Did you change the 6/4ohm setting in the 709? If they are 6 or higher, it should be set to 6. 5 or lower, should be set to 4.

How about the setting where you can select biamp? That should say NORMAL if you speakers aren't biamped.
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post #761 of 2234
1/22/12 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Are your speakers 8ohms? Did you change the 6/4ohm setting in the 709? If they are 6 or higher, it should be set to 6. 5 or lower, should be set to 4.

How about the setting where you can select biamp? That should say NORMAL if you speakers aren't biamped.

they are 4 ohm speakers, tried it on both 4 ohm and 6 ohm settings, no difference. and the settings are normal, not bi-amped.
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post #762 of 2234
1/22/12 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

.... almost like zero LFE is going to the center a compression/limiter filter is on it.

Just to clear some definitions up for you ... the term LFE only describes the LFE channel audio (ie. the 0.1 in DD/DTS X.1 audio) and when setting the LPF for LFE to 120hz, you are allowing the full LFE channel (which tops out at 120hz) to pass through to the AVR. The LFE is a different audio signal than is the low frequency bass that gets sent to the speakers.
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post #763 of 2234
1/22/12 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Are your speakers 8ohms? Did you change the 6/4ohm setting in the 709? If they are 6 or higher, it should be set to 6. 5 or lower, should be set to 4.

Although this is what is listed in the manual, what is actually recommended is that the setting should be left at 6Ω and only changed to 4Ω if the AVR shuts down in protection mode, otherwise you're simply limiting the available current when connecting 4Ω speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

they are 4 ohm speakers, tried it on both 4 ohm and 6 ohm settings, no difference.

See above and leave it at the factory default 6Ω setting.
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post #764 of 2234
1/22/12 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Although this is what is listed in the manual, what is actually recommended is that the setting should be left at 6Ω and only changed to 4Ω if the AVR shuts down in protection mode, otherwise you're simply limiting the available current when connecting 4Ω speakers.



See above and leave it at the factory default 6Ω setting.

Curious, by whom is this recommendation?
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post #765 of 2234
1/22/12 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Although this is what is listed in the manual, what is actually recommended is that the setting should be left at 6Ω and only changed to 4Ω if the AVR shuts down in protection mode, otherwise you're simply limiting the available current when connecting 4Ω speakers.



See above and leave it at the factory default 6Ω setting.

thanks jd - always used 6ohm setting for my 4ohm speakers, only tried 4ohm to troubleshoot the audyssey weirdness i am having with my new 709.

did a factory reset and am going to try another audyssey calibration just to see what happens.

whatever it is, it's been reported by enough people to make me think something is amiss and it's not a crazy isolated instance
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post #766 of 2234
1/22/12 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Curious, by whom is this recommendation?

By anyone that doesn't want to limit the current to their 4Ω speakers.
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post #767 of 2234
1/22/12 at 4:38pm
UPDATE

factory reset - re-do on Audyssey. same results.

BUT after hearing the same weird results i went and changed my cable source setup to "MUSIC" instead of "MOVIE" for the audyssey preference and it sounds great!!!!!!!! switched back to "movie" just to make sure and it sounded ridiculously hollow/missing, so I'm going to experiment again with the calibration and select "MUSIC" at the end for the universal setting, then experiment with different sources with the "music" setting and it being totally off to see what i hear.

so i have at least isolated this to whatever it is calibrating for MOVIE to be the culprit...

what a weird issue. it's immediately apparent that the audyssey "music" setting isn't affected by whatever weirdness is going on.
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post #768 of 2234
1/22/12 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

By anyone that doesn't want to limit the current to their 4Ω speakers.

Fair enough


Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

UPDATE

factory reset - re-do on Audyssey. same results.

BUT after hearing the same weird results i went and changed my cable source setup to "MUSIC" instead of "MOVIE" for the audyssey preference and it sounds great!!!!!!!! switched back to "movie" just to make sure and it sounded ridiculously hollow/missing, so I'm going to experiment again with the calibration and select "MUSIC" at the end for the universal setting, then experiment with different sources with the "music" setting and it being totally off to see what i hear.

so i have at least isolated this to whatever it is calibrating for MOVIE to be the culprit...

what a weird issue. it's immediately apparent that the audyssey "music" setting isn't affected by whatever weirdness is going on.

Getting closer. Make sure your 1st mic measurement is where YOU sit, center of your head at ear height, because that's the one that sets speaker trim levels and speaker distances. After that, just make a bubble around your listen area, while not setting it too close to walls, or under tables ect..

Movie = high end roll off / Music = flat response.
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post #769 of 2234
1/22/12 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Fair enough




Getting closer. Make sure your 1st mic measurement is where YOU sit, center of your head at ear height, because that's the one that sets speaker trim levels and speaker distances. After that, just make a bubble around your listen area, while not setting it too close to walls, or under tables ect..

Movie = high end roll off / Music = flat response.

understood, but trust me, the "wrong" result i'm getting with the "movie" setting sounds so bad it's not even funny. it's not any kind of placement issue, it's something terribly wrong with however my 709 is calculating the results. it probably isn't a measurement issue with the mic/709 either, if the MUSIC mode sounds right. (and i used the movie preset with my first 709 with no issues)

the best way i can describe the funky sound is that 80% of the sound fidelity is missing, the surrounds are pumped up and tinny, and the center speaker sounds like an AM radio broadcast.
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post #770 of 2234
1/22/12 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

understood, but trust me, the "wrong" result i'm getting with the "movie" setting sounds so bad it's not even funny. it's not any kind of placement issue, it's something terribly wrong with however my 709 is calculating the results. it probably isn't a measurement issue with the mic/709 either, if the MUSIC mode sounds right. (and i used the movie preset with my first 709 with no issues)

the best way i can describe the funky sound is that 80% of the sound fidelity is missing, the surrounds are pumped up and tinny, and the center speaker sounds like an AM radio broadcast.


lol! (not at you, with you) I believe you.
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post #771 of 2234
1/22/12 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Fair enough




Getting closer. Make sure your 1st mic measurement is where YOU sit, center of your head at ear height, because that's the one that sets speaker trim levels and speaker distances. After that, just make a bubble around your listen area, while not setting it too close to walls, or under tables ect..

Movie = high end roll off / Music = flat response.

d-bone first of all thanks for your help/input with this

your clarification on what the two different options do has me thinking...if Movie is supposed to roll off the high end, it's almost like what i'm hearing is exactly the opposite of that. everything BUT the very high end rolled away. these clues are fascinating
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post #772 of 2234
1/22/12 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

lol! (not at you, with you) I believe you.

yeah, i almost want to record a youtube clip so i can demonstrate the sound.

SO, i just re-did audyssey again, this time switching to MUSIC at the end (and turning off dynamic EQ, since i have never liked how that works with my outlaw subs at low volumes)..and it sounds FANTASTIC lol. So weird!!

so is there any reason not to just leave it on MUSIC as my audyssey setting? i do as much music listening down here as i do movie-watching anyway...

on a side note, i got a WIDE variety of crossover measurements from audyssey each time i tried it (about 10 over the last 24 hours). i wonder what's up with that? i seem to remember this being typical, it just makes me wonder just how "accurate" any given measurement is.
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post #773 of 2234
1/22/12 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

yeah, i almost want to record a youtube clip so i can demonstrate the sound.

SO, i just re-did audyssey again, this time switching to MUSIC at the end (and turning off dynamic EQ, since i have never liked how that works with my outlaw subs at low volumes)..and it sounds FANTASTIC lol. So weird!!

so is there any reason not to just leave it on MUSIC as my audyssey setting? i do as much music listening down here as i do movie-watching anyway...

on a side note, i got a WIDE variety of crossover measurements from audyssey each time i tried it (about 10 over the last 24 hours). i wonder what's up with that? i seem to remember this being typical, it just makes me wonder just how "accurate" any given measurement is.


That's great news! I have mine set to Music on all of my inputs. I really like the THX Cinema mode for 5.1, and DPL II + THX Cinema mode for 2.0. The Music mode works great with the THX modes, because THX forces an upper end roll off on its own, so I don't want a double roll off with Movie mode.

I have run Audyssey about 10 times myself before settling on my current config, and it alternated my X-over settings from 80-100hz each time. I manually reset them to 100hz, as that is where it should be regardless of what Audyssey says.
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post #774 of 2234
1/22/12 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

That's great news! I have mine set to Music on all of my inputs. I really like the THX Cinema mode for 5.1, and DPL II + THX Cinema mode for 2.0. The Music mode works great with the THX modes, because THX forces an upper end roll off on its own, so I don't want a double roll off with Movie mode.

I have run Audyssey about 10 times myself before settling on my current config, and it alternated my X-over settings from 80-100hz each time. I manually reset them to 100hz, as that is where it should be regardless of what Audyssey says.

yep, DPL2+THX Cinema is a favorite of mine as well..

just because i'm curious, have you tried switching to MOVIE mode on any of your inputs since the update? since you have a new 709 with the latest firmware i'm just curious if there is any chance you hear the awfulness on the MOVIE preset at all.

thanks again for your help/input. my next step is to try a bunch of different input sources and toggle between MUSIC/OFF and see what i hear.. i've always used audyssey when available in the past and it wasn't until this recent snafu that i considered just leaving it off (and it sounded great without it).. from initial impression the surrounds are beefed up with audyssey on, not in a bad way, but it's definitely more aggressive sounding. i'll take more aggressive over AM radio-sounding any day!
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post #775 of 2234
1/22/12 at 6:01pm
Your welcome, I'm glad you have found a solution. Yes, as a matter of fact, after reading your last few posts, I tested all of my inputs with the Movie setting, and they all sound good. I even turned off THX, and went with straight decoding/DPL II, and everything was normal. Sounds like you found your ideal config, and maybe the next update will fix the Movie setting.
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post #776 of 2234
1/22/12 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Your welcome, I'm glad you have found a solution. Yes, as a matter of fact, after reading your last few posts, I tested all of my inputs with the Movie setting, and they all sound good. I even turned off THX, and went with straight decoding/DPL II, and everything was normal. Sounds like you found your ideal config, and maybe the next update will fix the Movie setting.

cool, thanks for checking. we are watching the nfc championship game and going back and forth between the MUSIC setting and OFF...no contest. The Audyssey setting sounds a lot better. stronger center channel (brighter, but fuller), with better surround integration and better activity with the mains. With it OFF it still sounds 1000 times better than the MOVIE setting, which is why i was willing to settle, but glad i am at least able to enjoy the audyssey calibration now since it is apparently doing some real work with the sound as opposed to leaving it totally OFF.
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post #777 of 2234
1/22/12 at 6:33pm
I'm watching the game too, going back and forth between straight DD 5.1 and THX Cinema to test the crowd noise........THX wins for me, hands down. I have direct radiating SuperZero 2.0s, in a 5.1 layout, and the THX Cinema mode creates a much more enveloping sound field...............My wife is gonna shoot me if I push another button!
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post #778 of 2234
1/22/12 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

I'm watching the game too, going back and forth between straight DD 5.1 and THX Cinema to test the crowd noise........THX wins for me, hands down. I have direct radiating SuperZero 2.0s, in a 5.1 layout, and the THX Cinema mode creates a much more enveloping sound field...............My wife is gonna shoot me if I push another button!

agreed - the THX surround modes for NFL in particular bring out the crowd surrounds like crazy and it's nicely isolated without crosstalk from the mains.

my wife was gonna shoot me if she heard the audyssey pings again lol, she hates football but is gladly watching the game instead of me calibrating speakers :-)
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post #779 of 2234
1/22/12 at 6:48pm
lol! Both my wife and daughter absolutely hate the pings........Probably something to do with me, locking them in the shed till its alll done.
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post #780 of 2234
1/22/12 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

lol! Both my wife and daughter absolutely hate the pings........Probably something to do with me, locking them in the shed till its alll done.

LOL

ps - i went back to "movie" mode many times and i am 99% convinced whatever curve/map its using is exactly inverted from what it's supposed to be doing, so it's probably one random digit off in a long line of code somewhere.
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