or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › 2011 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (740/840 series)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

2011 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (740/840 series) - Page 9

post #241 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

Actually, they are still square shaped, but they are rotated 90°. Some people call a square rotated 90° a diamond, to me a diamond suggests a shape that is taller than it is wide (or vice versa), but for this purpose we'll just consider it semantics.

Forgive me for jumping in, here, but I think you mean 45°, no? Otherwise, you'd be back at a square.
post #242 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by micah67 View Post

Forgive me for jumping in, here, but I think you mean 45°, no? Otherwise, you'd be back at a square.

LOL, yes, you are correct.
post #243 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipnotiq View Post

interesting, but what information do you have that shows the mirrors are not square shaped?

Read the pdf in my signature. It provides links to all the information, such as
http://www.informationdisplay.org/is.../art5/art5.pdf

Info can also be found here http://www.eetimes.com/design/signal...hm-An-overview

Quote:


In order to realize program goals of creating higher resolution devices while simultaneously decreasing system costs, TI developed an innovative new DMD. This new DMD utilizes an offset diamond pixel layout utilizing mirrors which are rotated 45 degrees with respect to those in an orthogonal DMD



So as not to derail this thread, more discussion can be found here.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post20625259
post #244 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

Understood. There is no "conventional" way to describe it. We call it 960x1080 to put it inter terms that we can understand relative to the more typical orthogonal arrangement. It could just as easily be called 1920x540. It just depends on whether you to count by shifting every other column, or every other row.

The "row pairs" and "column pairs" that TI likes to describe them as are misleading. That results in counting pixels twice... ...Yes, and if you take a pen and "check off" each pixel as you count it, you will see that you would be attempting to count some pixels "twice" if you count them that way.

Twice, as in once vertically and once horizontally? You would count twice with an orthogonal grid as well.
Quote:


Yes, but only after two sub-frames are projected. In 3D mode, each eye only sees every other sub-frame. Each sub-frame only contains 1,036,800 pixels.... you can call that frame 960x1080, or 1920x540, or however you want to define it dimensionally.

No you can't. 960x1080 lines is 1/2 vertical resolution, 1920x540 lines is 1/2 horizontal resolution. Checkerboard is 1/2 diagonal resolution. As such, it is still 1920x1080 lines, even in 3D. Light from the mirrors is projected at twice the pixel size, and because of the diamond shapes, the diamonds interleave with each other, making 1920 x 1080 lines with half the mirrors (and half the information). For 2D, the resultant image is blended with its counterpart in the other subframe, rendering all of the 2D (2MP+) pixel information.
Quote:


But the end result is it's only about 1MP.

Yes, 1/2 the pixels, but the genius is that it is 1920x1080 lines even in 3D. Just count them.
Quote:



Or... the short answer is: I can see it. The loss in resolution is very apparent if you sit close enough. Put up an image with very fine detail. If you have an HTPC, any windows screen is a good source, since much of the text is only 1 pixel wide. Put it in 3D mode, and put on the glasses. All the missing pixels become immediately apparent. Through more typical video content, it's not normally noticeable unless you sit very close. But it's clearly there.

The "missing pixels" are covered by the corners of the mirrors (one cannot see them), and it's clearly better than side by side (960x1080 per eye), or top/bottom (1920x540 per eye) where entire lines are indeed missing.
Quote:


...You will then understand why it's difficult to classify the resolution in a standard "X" by "Y" dimension...

No, it's because DLPs don't have pixels, they have diamond shaped mirrors. The diamonds are twice the size as a pixel and interlock, due to their shape.

http://www.dlp.com/downloads/Introducing%20DLP%203D%20HDTV%20Whitepaper.pdf
Quote:



One technical hurdle in achieving cost effective stereoscopic displays is that stereoscopic displays require two times the imaging bandwidth of the standard 2-D displays. For a 1080p television set, this means that two 1080p input streams are required. Current solutions to this hurdle are to either cut the horizontal resolution by 1/2 [960 x 1080] or cut the vertical resolution by 1/2 [1920 x 540]. Using these solutions allows for the transmission of two images using the currently available bandwidth but sacrifices either the horizontal or vertical resolution of the image. The solution created by Texas instruments maintains both the vertical and the horizontal resolution. This solution thus produces the highest quality and highest resolution displays available for stereoscopic viewing.
post #245 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipnotiq View Post

the bad news is that mitsubishi changed their emitter code from previous years to a new code this year. that means that glasses that worked on last years TVs will not work on this years TVs without using a seperate IR emitter.

I think you can buy those used on ebay. it should be cheap. just make sure to disable the internal emitter if you use the external one.

Oh no........
Will XpanD X102 DLP Link 3D glasses we just got for our 73740 not work with the new internal emitter?

I'm new to all this 3D stuff so I went with the 3D glasses(safe route) they always showed with the Mitsubishi's on the Shopping Networks. Guess we might have to get an external emitter to read these XpanD X102's since they changed the code on the new sets.
post #246 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrelyBama View Post

Oh no........
Will XpanD X102 DLP Link 3D glasses we just got for our 73740 not work with the new internal emitter?

I'm new to all this 3D stuff so I went with the 3D glasses(safe route) they always showed with the Mitsubishi's on the Shopping Networks. Guess we might have to get an external emitter to read these XpanD X102’s since they changed the code on the new sets.

You are fine. DLP-Link is different from IR and has not changed. (neither has the IR spec)
post #247 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

You are fine. DLP-Link is different from IR and has not changed.

Wooo hooooo
I was worried, and was about to go Google crazy while watching the game

Thanks.............
post #248 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipnotiq View Post

the bad news is that mitsubishi changed their emitter code from previous years to a new code this year. that means that glasses that worked on last years TVs will not work on this years TVs without using a seperate IR emitter...

Where did you get that information? It is incorrect. From Mitsubishi:

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/spe...G-EX103-V2.pdf

Quote:


3D Glasses Key Features 3DG-X103 3DG-EX103
Compatible with Internal IR emitter in 2011 and later Mitsubishi 3D TVs Yes
Compatible IR emitter in Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 and 3DC-100S 3D Starter Pack Yes


And besides, if you have pre-2011 IR glasses, you also have the emitter, so it's a wash either way.
post #249 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

What is on top of the tv? Is it the ir 3D emitter or what?

Nintendo Wii infrared emitter
post #250 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
Where did you get that information? It is incorrect. From Mitsubishi:

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/spe...G-EX103-V2.pdf




And besides, if you have pre-2011 IR glasses, you also have the emitter, so it's a wash either way.
its not incorrect. mitsubishi changed the IR spec from samsung to panasonic for the 2011 product. its common knowledge.
post #251 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
Twice, as in once vertically and once horizontally? You would count twice with an orthogonal grid as well.
No you can't. 960x1080 lines is 1/2 vertical resolution, 1920x540 lines is 1/2 horizontal resolution. Checkerboard is 1/2 diagonal resolution. As such, it is still 1920x1080 lines, even in 3D. Light from the mirrors is projected at twice the pixel size, and because of the diamond shapes, the diamonds interleave with each other, making 1920 x 1080 lines with half the mirrors (and half the information). For 2D, the resultant image is blended with its counterpart in the other subframe, rendering all of the 2D (2MP+) pixel information.Yes, 1/2 the pixels, but the genius is that it is 1920x1080 lines even in 3D. Just count them.The "missing pixels" are covered by the corners of the mirrors (one cannot see them), and it's clearly better than side by side (960x1080 per eye), or top/bottom (1920x540 per eye) where entire lines are indeed missing. No, it's because DLPs don't have pixels, they have diamond shaped mirrors. The diamonds are twice the size as a pixel and interlock, due to their shape.

http://www.dlp.com/downloads/Introducing%20DLP%203D%20HDTV%20Whitepaper.pdf
I think there is some misunderstanding somewhere about diamond shape versus diagonal positioning.
The mirrors are square.
The are just arranged in a diagonal line to each other. but yes, there is 960 by 540 mirrors.
This information was basic stuff 10 years ago, why are people confused about it now?
post #252 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by trapperjohnMD View Post
I think there is some misunderstanding somewhere about diamond shape versus diagonal positioning.
The mirrors are square.
The are just arranged in a diagonal line to each other. but yes, there is 960 by 540 mirrors.
This information was basic stuff 10 years ago, why are people confused about it now?
The term diamond was a short way of saying a square turned 45 degrees, just as a baseball diamond is really a square turned 45 degrees. I guess I should have called it a right-angled rhombus, but I chose to call it what TI called it.

There are 960 distinct column pairs and 540 distinct row pairs.
post #253 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by trapperjohnMD View Post
its not incorrect. mitsubishi changed the IR spec from samsung to panasonic for the 2011 product. its common knowledge.
I must've missed that. Got a link?
post #254 of 3948
So those with the 82840.. post your calibration numbers.
post #255 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

So as not to derail this thread, more discussion can be found here.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post20625259

Done.
post #256 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

So as not to derail this thread, more discussion can be found here.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20625259#post20625259

Done.

Thanks. I'll see ya there.
post #257 of 3948
I have not seen any reviews on the 3D yet... Please post if you see any improvement over last years models. Also how is the 2D to 3D conversion?
post #258 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by trapperjohnMD View Post

mitsubishi changed the IR spec from samsung to panasonic for the 2011 product. its common knowledge.

From an email sent by Xpand Tech Support regarding the X103 Universals...

"With new Mitsubishi TVs (2011 sets) you should be using setting #4 for Universal Glasses (same as Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp).

With old Mitsubishi TVs (2010 or earlier) you should be using setting #1 (same as Samsung)."
post #259 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoombs View Post

From an email sent by Xpand Tech Support regarding the X103 Universals...

"With new Mitsubishi TVs (2011 sets) you should be using setting #4 for Universal Glasses (same as Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp).

With old Mitsubishi TVs (2010 or earlier) you should be using setting #1 (same as Samsung)."

Thanks. I had suspected that the old glasses might still be compatible since the X103s worked on both emitters. But that suspicion was also tempered by the knowledge that X103s are switchable. I just never had seen either confirmed.

Sorry Hipnotiq
post #260 of 3948
I posted this information in the LaserVue A95 thread but thought I would share it with all of you. I went to Paul's TV here in West Los Angeles today and got to see the A94, A91, 82840 and the 82" (2010 model don't remember the exact model number) side by side. I wanted to see the new 92" but they did not have a model on display. All were using the Brilliant setting which makes the colors pop but doesn't give a very realistic picture. In speaking to the manager about their flexibility in pricing on the 82840, he said that they have quite a few customers in the industry who have come in and specifically requested the A95 LaserVue. He told me they all have this set professionally calibrated for its true colors and sharp detail. Quite an endorsement considering I was asking him about 82840 which by the way looked very good but not quite as sharp as the LaserVue. Last year's version of both the LaserVue and 82" with matte screens were not even close to the new sets. Those who have bought the last year sets based on their price, I feel, really lost out on the new sets. Yes, the sets do have a quite reflective screen and buyers will need to consider light control as an important factor...but the comparison left not doubt about which sets were more impactful. While my initial interest was to get either the 82840 or the 92840, after seeing the A94, I think I will start looking at pricing for the A94. I currently have a 73734 that has developed a problem with pin pricks of light after I changed the bulb. Have sent an e-mail to Mits but don't expect much in the way of a reply nor an inexpensive solution. Paul's TV manager speculated that it had to do with the lense. But who knows. The bottom line is the best TV out there right now is the A94 LaserVue. Kuro's are no longer being made...so who cares about their blacks. The Manager at Paul's TV seemed to think that the A94,after calibration, would be Kuro like with regard to blacks and much better with color.
post #261 of 3948
would anyone know if the Samsung SSG-2100AB 3D Glasses work with the 73840 with internal Emitter
post #262 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freestyle 10461 View Post

would anyone know if the Samsung SSG-2100AB 3D Glasses work with the 73840 with internal Emitter

Ijust ordered the 73840 from magnolia hi fi its like 20 days out and that sucks but in can put in on my bestbuy card with 36 month no int. does in come with everything for 3d.how is the PQ for games and blueray any help would be great and my stand is 21" tall how tall is your stand and do you think 21" is to tall.thanks for the help.
post #263 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

This is from the 2009 Mits owners thread - note the disclaimer "Enter the Service Menu at your own risk." I corrected the geometry best I could on my 82837.


Mits Geometry Correction Instructions
Enter the Service Menu at your own risk.


- Press "menu"
- While on the menu screen press 2 4 5 7 wait 2 seconds then press 0
- You'll see 5 menu selections at the top of the screen
- Arrow down to "MANUAL KEYSTONE GEOMETRY ALIGNMENT" and press the "enter" button
- You will come to a black screen with overscan lines around the perimeter and two vertical lines at the 4:3 bar location
- Seeing this screen, you'll probably want to adjust the perimeter also which is the first part of these instructions. If not, read on through to the end which will get you to the 4:3 bar adjustment.
- There are adjustment points along the perimeter ("+" marks)
- The first point you're at when you arrive to the screen is the upper left corner
- Adjust that point (if needed) by pressing the up/down/left/right arrow keys in the direction you need that point to move to straighten any irregularities there. You won't see any of the lines move at this point, just the "+" pointer.
- You access the "+" points in a clockwise direction from the starting point by pressing "fast forward" (to the right of "play") on the remote to move to the next adjustment point. Adjust the pointer at the next point if needed in the same manner (up,down,left right) then on to the next point.
- "Fast Rewind" will move you backwards, point to point, headed back to the starting point.
- Since you don't see the results of your adjustments onscreen, you'll have to press "enter" which will return you to the Geometry menu screen, then "enter" again to get you back to the adjustment screen. Then you'll see the results. You'll be going back and forth like this quite a few times. NOTE: If you make an adjustment on a point and press "enter", that adjustment won't take. Make sure before you "enter" out to the menu, that you fast forward or rewind to the next point first.

- To adjust the two 4:3 vertical bars, "fast forward" all the way around to the starting point. Once there, you'll be in the 4:3 bar adjustment mode. The next "fast forward" press will make both 4:3 lines move. Just keep pressing "fast forward / rewind" until you get the bars straight as possible. Press "enter" to get back to the menu screen. If you are finished, press "exit".

I followed these instructions for geometry correction with my 92840, as well as those in the service manual for the 833 series. The 16-point adjustment for the edge geometry works as advertised, but the last part where its says that after adjusting all points and pressing fast forward again, it will take you to the 4:3 mode does not seem to be working. When I go to through all 16 points and press fast forward, it just cycles through all 16 points again.

Here is the exact wording from the 833 Service manual:
"5. After all 16 points are aligned properly, pressing the FASTFORWARD button again automatically activates the 4:3 mode (there is no change in the display). There are 11 patterns, each with a small variation of distortion in the 4:3 mode vertical lines. Continue pressing FASTFORWARD to cycle through the 11 patterns until you find the straightest 4:3 lines, then go to step 6.
6. Press the ENTER button to save the adjustment and EXIT to leave the Adjustment Mode.."

Anyone had luck with current model, and can tell me what I am doing wrong?
post #264 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinj View Post
Ijust ordered the 73840 from magnolia hi fi its like 20 days out and that sucks but in can put in on my bestbuy card with 36 month no int. does in come with everything for 3d.how is the PQ for games and blueray any help would be great and my stand is 21" tall how tall is your stand and do you think 21" is to tall.thanks for the help.
I am surprised about that, as most Mitsubishi dealers are having no issues with inventory on any model.
post #265 of 3948
So, even though I've read through this thread, I continue to be confused about 3D glasses for the 740/840 series.

I know X103's are the recommended glasses, but they are $70+ each, and they don't have any kids sizes.

So, would other IR glasses work? What is it that we need to look for, that they support Panasonic?

For example, NXG Tech NX-3DGR says "For Samsung and Mitsubishi". Should I understand that to mean "pre-2011 Mitsubishi" instead? And as such, these glasses would not work with 740/840? What about Dimensional Optics?

Or, I guess another way to ask this question is: Does anyone know of any 3d glasses that come in sizes for both kids and adults and works with the 740/840?
post #266 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

I am surprised about that, as most Mitsubishi dealers are having no issues with inventory on any model.

magnolia hi fi does not stcok this tv so they put an order in with mitsubishi it will take 10 days to get to magnolia hi fi warehouse in california and 5 to 10 to seattle.the wait is gona suck but like i said its on my bestbuy card 36 month no int.the only other dealer that has financing is walts and its only 12 months no int.I guess im not a balla like the rest of you guys and pay cash.
post #267 of 3948
Our 73740 is getting delivered today somewhere between 1:00pm & 5:00pm…....
We're excited to get it, and us going from a 32" to a 73" HDTV should give us a way better Movie watching experience. My wife & I can't wait to watch " Legends of the Guardians" in 3D today. Then it’s Avatar time after that, but unfortunately it’s not the 3D version.

I'll play around with the picture settings to get this 73740 looking the best I can, but I'm seriously considering getting it calibrated by a pro after the recommended 100-300 hrs. I still got to do the research on calibrating TV’s, but it seems it's worth it if one wants the best possible picture. I'm going to go see if I can find some recommended picture settings for this Beast to get by with until 300hrs passes. Hmmm...... This got me thinking.
Is there a timer on the TV somewhere so one knows exactly our long it's been used?
post #268 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxster View Post

So, even though I've read through this thread, I continue to be confused about 3D glasses for the 740/840 series.

I know X103's are the recommended glasses, but they are $70+ each, and they don't have any kids sizes.

So, would other IR glasses work? What is it that we need to look for, that they support Panasonic?

For example, NXG Tech NX-3DGR says "For Samsung and Mitsubishi". Should I understand that to mean "pre-2011 Mitsubishi" instead? And as such, these glasses would not work with 740/840? What about Dimensional Optics?

Or, I guess another way to ask this question is: Does anyone know of any 3d glasses that come in sizes for both kids and adults and works with the 740/840?

FYI, the X103 Universals come with three different sized nose-bridge inserts to help with various face sizes. My kids are older, so not sure how it would work for smaller kids.
post #269 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoombs View Post

FYI, the X103 Universals come with three different sized nose-bridge inserts to help with various face sizes. My kids are older, so not sure how it would work for smaller kids.

Hi scoombs, thanks for the response. I am aware of the nose-bridge inserts and I'm certainly going to give it a try (my 73740 is getting delivered tomorrow afternoon!). But, my experience with previous glasses is that the issue has multiple variables, in addition to the nose piece: (1) bulkiness of the frame that makes it uncomfortable for a small kid, (2) not resting on her ears comfortably because it's too wide, (and 3) the distance between the two eyes being too small (resulting her to be distracted by the nose piece entering her vision in large frames). So a smaller frame overall centers her eyes better on the lenses and is also more comfortable in general. We'll give it a try, but I figured I would ask if anyone is aware of alternatives.

So my questions stand: (1) any glass that says "Mitsubishi and Samsung compatible" is not compatible with 2011 models, correct? (2) anyone aware of models that have specific kids sizes and work with 740/840s?
post #270 of 3948
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoombs View Post

I followed these instructions for geometry correction with my 92840, as well as those in the service manual for the 833 series. The 16-point adjustment for the edge geometry works as advertised, but the last part where its says that after adjusting all points and pressing fast forward again, it will take you to the 4:3 mode does not seem to be working. When I go to through all 16 points and press fast forward, it just cycles through all 16 points again.

Here is the exact wording from the 833 Service manual:
"5. After all 16 points are aligned properly, pressing the FASTFORWARD button again automatically activates the 4:3 mode (there is no change in the display). There are 11 patterns, each with a small variation of distortion in the 4:3 mode vertical lines. Continue pressing FASTFORWARD to cycle through the 11 patterns until you find the straightest 4:3 lines, then go to step 6.
6. Press the ENTER button to save the adjustment and EXIT to leave the Adjustment Mode.."

Anyone had luck with current model, and can tell me what I am doing wrong?

I am in the same boat. Instructions for the edge geometry work as described, but I can't get to the 4:3 geometry. Anyone figure out how to get to the 4:3 geometry?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rear Projection Units
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › 2011 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (740/840 series)