2011 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (740/840 series) - Page 120

Originally Posted by Murdock03 

I apologize if this has been answered already, but I saw a previous post with the same question (not from me) many, many, many pages back that never got answered.
Is the speaker bar in the 840 sufficient enough for a center channel when using the center channel setting? I just ordered a 92840 and am debating if I spend the extra money I saved on a center channel or surround speakers (currently have 2 AR Hi-Res tower speakers, and Velodyne sub running on a Denon AVR)

Originally Posted by Murdock03 

I apologize if this has been answered already, but I saw a previous post with the same question (not from me) many, many, many pages back that never got answered.
Is the speaker bar in the 840 sufficient enough for a center channel when using the center channel setting? I just ordered a 92840 and am debating if I spend the extra money I saved on a center channel or surround speakers (currently have 2 AR Hi-Res tower speakers, and Velodyne sub running on a Denon AVR)

Originally Posted by K7JQ 

General concensus, from what I understand, is that all of the speakers in a surround sound system (5.1, 7.1) preferably should be of the same series of the same manufacturer. That way the acoustic characteristics (chamber enclosures, voice coils, cones, frequency response, crossovers, power capacity, impedence, etc) will be properly matched for optimum reproduction of content from each speaker's responsibility (front L/R, center, side L/R in 7.1, rear L/R). Using the sound bar speakers in the 840 as a center channel would theoretically be a compromise, but "usable" nonetheless if a matched system isn't possible. The center channel is a very important part of the system, as it reproduces the dialogue portion, and if not "in tune", would result in muffled, unintelligible voices. It has a different frequency response curve than the other speakers in the system.

Originally Posted by Murdock03 

I apologize if this has been answered already, but I saw a previous post with the same question (not from me) many, many, many pages back that never got answered.
Is the speaker bar in the 840 sufficient enough for a center channel when using the center channel setting? I just ordered a 92840 and am debating if I spend the extra money I saved on a center channel or surround speakers (currently have 2 AR Hi-Res tower speakers, and Velodyne sub running on a Denon AVR)

Originally Posted by Murdock03 

I apologize if this has been answered already, but I saw a previous post with the same question (not from me) many, many, many pages back that never got answered.

Is the speaker bar in the 840 sufficient enough for a center channel when using the center channel setting? I just ordered a 92840 and am debating if I spend the extra money I saved on a center channel or surround speakers (currently have 2 AR Hi-Res tower speakers, and Velodyne sub running on a Denon AVR)

Originally Posted by Murdock03 

Thanks for the responses. One thing that ultimately made my decision (in the short term at least) was an inability to accurately determine how much space I would have for the center channel. I have a new TV stand to accompany the new Mits and with the limited space (~ 5" head room) I figured I could try the center channel on the Mits for the time being and if its inadequate, then purchase a separate one. Actually I decided to spend the extra money I saved on a new Denon AVR to replace my 789 model and also added a pair of Boston Acoustic surround speakers. To me, I could forgo the money for the center for the time being in order to get an upgraded receiver so I didn't have to run a ton of cables (to get 3D capability with my old AVR I would have had to run an HDMI to Mits, optical to receiver as well as analog to receiver for whole house system).
But, never the less the answers were extremely helpful! Now......what 3D glasses to I purchase?? The X104's?

Originally Posted by Murdock03 

Thanks for the responses. One thing that ultimately made my decision (in the short term at least) was an inability to accurately determine how much space I would have for the center channel. I have a new TV stand to accompany the new Mits and with the limited space (~ 5" head room) I figured I could try the center channel on the Mits for the time being and if its inadequate, then purchase a separate one. Actually I decided to spend the extra money I saved on a new Denon AVR to replace my 789 model and also added a pair of Boston Acoustic surround speakers. To me, I could forgo the money for the center for the time being in order to get an upgraded receiver so I didn't have to run a ton of cables (to get 3D capability with my old AVR I would have had to run an HDMI to Mits, optical to receiver as well as analog to receiver for whole house system).
But, never the less the answers were extremely helpful! Now......what 3D glasses to I purchase?? The X104's?

Originally Posted by K7JQ 

The Mitsubishi recommended 3D glasses is the Xpand 3DG-X103. I have 2 pairs for my 73740, and they work fine with the built-in IR emitter.

Originally Posted by lujan 

My Darbee Darblet will be in tomorrow and I was wondering what others of the 82740 (or other models) have found to be the best setting for the Darbee? Just looking for a good place to start since I've never used this device?

Originally Posted by lujan 

I'm thinking I'm going to have to return my Darblet because the 82740 keeps thinking it's found a new device and wants me to name it so I just select the top item "Device" and then it resets all my Video settings and the 3D no longer works because the "Device" name I selected doesn't apparently allow for 3D. Anyone else have this problem with their Darblet? Am I selecting the wrong name for the device? Should I select "DVD" for example?

Originally Posted by jkalsaria 

I don't see that problem on my setup. AFAIK, it will ask you to name it again only if you switching HDMI input in your TV. I have connected it to AVR since day 1 of my darblet and it newer ask me to give new name, it ask me to give new name when i use another HDMI port on my 92840, which will definitely not gonna carry over settings from one HDMI to another, you will need to redo your settings. AFAIK, this settings will be saved based on HDMI input connected, so each input can have different settings which i like it.

Originally Posted by lujan 

No, I haven't changed the HDMI input on the back of the 82740 so I don't know what's going on with it?

Originally Posted by jkalsaria 

what is the firmware and software version on your Darblet?
have you tried changing HDMI cable?
how long is your HDMI cable?

Originally Posted by lujan 

I have no idea but just got the Darblet. It only started happening when I got the Darblet. The HDMI cable is 6 feet long.

Originally Posted by Murdock03 

I apologize if this has been answered already, but I saw a previous post with the same question (not from me) many, many, many pages back that never got answered.
Is the speaker bar in the 840 sufficient enough for a center channel when using the center channel setting? I just ordered a 92840 and am debating if I spend the extra money I saved on a center channel or surround speakers (currently have 2 AR Hi-Res tower speakers, and Velodyne sub running on a Denon AVR)

Originally Posted by GEP 

If explained, the majority of people still would ask "What?!?"
1. DeepField Imager darkens near blacks selectively to give a higher contrast feeling to the picture - some people call this Black Crush because it "crushes" the dark grays down to black. It may also boost the near brightest areas to the brightest for that scene. However it is seems to be slightly more than simply darkening the dark grays or brightening the brights. If you want pure contrasts and gray scale, then this alters that so it cannot be a pure gray scale.
If your TV offers this feature, it also offers a demo mode. Look at the demo mode and decide for yourself - it is your TV, not the purists here.
2. Film Mode is "2:3 Pull Down Compesation" and is for interlaced incoming signals 480i and 1080i. In order to save signal bandwidth, interlaced signals will divide a frame in to two fields, Field A and Field B, and send these separately. Field A is only the odd numbered horizontal lines of the picture. Field B is only the even numbered horizontal lines. A new field is delivered to the TV every 60th of a second, so because there are two fields for every single frame, there are 30 full frames per second. The TV is a progressive display, not an interlaced display. This means the TV needs to receive the two fields and then combine them into one progressive frame (the display of all of the lines at the same time). The TV and standard TV Broadcast signals are at 60Hz. This means the TV shows 60 frames per second. This also means the TV shows each of the original 30 frames twice to up convert this to 60 frames per second. Video created in a TV studio is 30 frames per second, and if interlaced, 60 fields per second so combine the two fields and then repeating each frame once is the easy part.
However standard film is created at 24 frames per second not 30 or 60 frames per second. This means at the source of the signal they need do a special pattern called 2:3 pull down (some reverse this and call it 3:2 pull down). That would be using repeats to change the frame rate. It works this way:
Frame one is sent and then repeated once, Frame two is sent and then repeated twice, Frame three is sent and repeated once, and Frame four is sent and repeated twice.
1-1-2-2-2-3-3-4-4-4-etc.
Now to send interlaced signals they select just the correct lines for each Field either "e" even lines or "o" odd lines.
1e-1o-2e-2o-2e-3o-3e-4o-4e-4o etc. The reason even is always followed by odd is because that is the way the old fashion CRTs scanned the face plate.
Both of these process are call the frame "cadence" In order to combine the correct Fields of even and odd lines the TV needs to skip several fields and also identify when a frame was lead by an odd instead of an even field. The process of indentifying this cadence and compensating for the combining of lines and the progressive display is call 2:3 pull down compensation or correction. This means that the correct fields were used to combine so you do not have (for example) the even lines from 2e (third repeat) combined with odd lines of 3o (first field).
The Auto setting tells the TV to look for and use the flags in "properly" created digital interlaced signal to identify the fact that there is 2:3 pull down and to compensate. If there are no flags the TV often can still identify these signals by analyzing other factors. However, there can be errors in identification. The OFF setting tells the TV to always use the combination technique it would use for signals originally made in TV studios (30 frames per second).
This feature should be used, and OFF selected only when you can see the TV has made an error. The error is usually something jagged edges or a combing effect on edges.
3. Edge Enhancement - there are several ways to make the edges of objects in the image look sharper. However, most TVs use a technique of looking at the brightness transition at that edge and then adjusting the brightness of the few pixels adjacent to the edge. For instance if the color on the left of the edge is a brightness level of 16 out of a possibility of 30 - low dark and high bright (these are made up numbers for illustration) and the edge itself is 12. The TV may boost a few of the bright pixels adjacent to the edge to brightness 20. This makes the edge at 12 look a little sharper but those few pixels that are artificially bright become a "halo". I know nothing about the Darbee unit so I cannot say how it enhances edges - it should be noted that any edge enhancement is artificial but that does not mean it is bad - no original signal is perfect in the first place.
4. Video Noise means "Video Noise Reduction". Video noise is visible in the picture as tiny dots, snow, grain, slight bug looking crawling etc. It is the unintended "crap" that is in the signal. Remember this is no such thing as a perfect signal. Usually because this noise is very random the TV can identify a lot of this "crap" and correct for it. One of the methods (and there a lot of methods) is to limit higher frequencies of the video signals, however since the fine detail is in the high frequencies, too much limiting of the high frequencies also softens the picture. Usually the best signals are from sources like Blu-ray where there is much less places for the crap to be introduced, so you might want OFF for that source. However, as with everything - there are good Blu-rays, excellent Blu-rays, and poor Blu-rays.

Originally Posted by Alex F. 

Gentlemen:
I didn't receive any responses on the 2012-series thread. so I am posting here in the hope of obtaining some help:
After completing an initial calibration on our new 82742, I find the picture has a subtle grainy texture on all sources (Blu-ray and DirecTV HD, both 1080p and 1080i). In all other aspects of performance the TV looks great. But the Mitsubishi lacks the creamy, smooth, liquid, crystal-clear picture of the Hitachi 65” RPTV it replaces.
The “sandy” grain structure of the Mitsubishi’s picture cannot be eliminated or even slightly altered by reducing the sharpness to zero or utilizing the onboard filter settings. The grain is seen as shimmering little "dots" when the screen is examined up close (from about 2 feet away). From a 13-foot distance, clear white skies look like fine sandpaper and close-ups of faces have a sand-like texture. It reminds me a bit of an LCD television's screen-door effect.
I keep wondering if the grain is a result of a noisy video amplifier (it appears to be luminance noise, not chroma noise, as it is visible on black & white sources, too). The TV has had about 25 hours of use since taking delivery on Wednesday--does the unit require more burn-in time? Or is this a normal picture for Mitsubishi and the DLP format in general?
Thank you!

Originally Posted by redonly 

Originally Posted by Alex F. 

Gentlemen:
I didn't receive any responses on the 2012-series thread. so I am posting here in the hope of obtaining some help:
After completing an initial calibration on our new 82742, I find the picture has a subtle grainy texture on all sources (Blu-ray and DirecTV HD, both 1080p and 1080i). In all other aspects of performance the TV looks great. But the Mitsubishi lacks the creamy, smooth, liquid, crystal-clear picture of the Hitachi 65” RPTV it replaces.
The “sandy” grain structure of the Mitsubishi’s picture cannot be eliminated or even slightly altered by reducing the sharpness to zero or utilizing the onboard filter settings. The grain is seen as shimmering little "dots" when the screen is examined up close (from about 2 feet away). From a 13-foot distance, clear white skies look like fine sandpaper and close-ups of faces have a sand-like texture. It reminds me a bit of an LCD television's screen-door effect.
I keep wondering if the grain is a result of a noisy video amplifier (it appears to be luminance noise, not chroma noise, as it is visible on black & white sources, too). The TV has had about 25 hours of use since taking delivery on Wednesday--does the unit require more burn-in time? Or is this a normal picture for Mitsubishi and the DLP format in general?
Thank you!

Originally Posted by Alex F. 

Thank you for the reply.
It is possible the screen is the cause. But I have owned and critically examined other high-performance rear-projection sets since 1994 and have never before seen this type of picture. It is not a steady-state effect as I would expect from a screen's structure--it shimmers. It looks like luminance noise.
I spoke to my dealer. He took a very close look at three Mitsubishis on his sales floor (73", 82", and 92"). He said he never noticed it before, but all three units have the noise I described.
I then reinstalled the Hitachi 65S500 RPTV after a week of using the Mitsubishi. The difference was a revelation. The Hitachi's picture is extremely clear and noise-free, almost like looking through a window. The Mitsubishi 82742, on the other hand, is like looking through a dirty window that is in front of a window screen (with shimmering added in).
The Mitsubishi is going back to the dealer for a refund. It will be picked up tomorrow.
I am very disappointed. We really liked the size of the 82" screen and other performance aspects of the Mitsubishi. But the noisy picture quickly made it unwatchable, particularly coming off the sensational picture of the Hitachi.

Originally Posted by Old Ram Fan 

Murdock, i truthfully have to say that our new 92840 has the best built-in sound of any TV we've owned.
With that said, i can't wait to get my 7.1 sound sys hooked up & playing my favorites movies on it! [even if simulated]
Also in AVS you can find this nice guide.
Hope it helps you & others...
""That being said, there are a few widely accepted rules for picking your speakers. WagBoss advises: “Generally, people say that the front three speakers should be the same brand and model line. All front speakers will have a matching center. Surrounds don't matter as much, unless you listen to SACDs or other multi-channel music. For subwoofers, it doesn't matter at all what brand.” Also be sure not to invest too heavily in areas that aren’t as essential, as steveklein suggests: “I think the fronts are significantly more important than the rears/surrounds. Several years ago, I spent about $500 a speaker on my fronts and about $150 a speaker on my surrounds and i've been very happy with the results...IMO, I think it is silly to spend the same amount of money on surrounds as your front soundstage.”""
http://www.avsforum.com/a/what-surround-sound-configuration-is-right-for-you
....

Originally Posted by Alex F. 

Squeaky:
When I evaluate video (and audio) components I always use the same reference discs. In the case of the WD-82742 (vs. the Hitachi) I used Blu-ray discs with the best transfer prints, comparing the same scenes within a given movie. If compression was the culprit it would have been obvious, too, on the 65" screen when viewed at a distance that yields the same magnification of the image as seen on the 82" screen (which I calculated in advance). The Hitachi, as I already stated, was still far better when viewed close up vs. the Mitsubishi far away.
The Hitachi, as of now, is simply a superior product. I hope Mitsubishi can improve their video performance to the point that I want to buy another 82" model in the future. If that happens, I'm there.

Originally Posted by Alex F. 

Squeaky:
When I evaluate video (and audio) components I always use the same reference discs. In the case of the WD-82742 (vs. the Hitachi) I used Blu-ray discs with the best transfer prints, comparing the same scenes within a given movie. If compression was the culprit it would have been obvious, too, on the 65" screen when viewed at a distance that yields the same magnification of the image as seen on the 82" screen (which I calculated in advance). The Hitachi, as I already stated, was still far better when viewed close up vs. the Mitsubishi far away.
The Hitachi, as of now, is simply a superior product. I hope Mitsubishi can improve their video performance to the point that I want to buy another 82" model in the future. If that happens, I'm there.