X-Rite's Revolutionary New Colorimeter - Page 24

Now that is a pretty picture, Ted.

I must admit, I hadn't thought of that. On other hobby-related forums I frequent, such a request is always for pics of the item being discussed.

All these pretty straight lines. Just remember that the meters we are talking about here all have errors and even after correcting for a measured oiffset or two, the meters all will still have errors. All these plotting graphs and lines programs are drawn assuming the probe measures perfectly. All the graphs show is how close you adjusted to what the probe read, not to the actual correct value. So better results could actually be worse, it all depends on the specific probe.

Nothing is perfect, Expensive Spectros (10.000$) have also problems at readings.

I can't trust a Colorimeter with offsets for measuring a specific display.

I'm always using a spectro as reference to teach the colorimeter.

For my Posted Calibration Report, I have used a Chroma 5 (Profiled from i1PRO) for Grayscale and only i1PRO for Color Gamut.

i1PRO + Chroma 5 are approved from THX Calibrations also and it's the minimum accepted hardware they are recommend.

i1PRO has a max 1.0dE from a reference JETI Spectro, that means the results from these instruments are accepted.

I will do a new 20-Step Grayscale using my SpectraCAL C6 the following days.

@ 100% you had over 100fl...is this correct?

It's cd/m2.

112 cd/m2 @ 100% White
135 cd/m2 @ 109% White

Shouldn't something like a C6 or i1 Display 3 PRO come close to the i1PRO in terms of color accuracy on any given display? Or is it actually more sensible to buy the standard version of the meter (OEM i1Display or i1 Display 3) and just use an i1PRO to profile it on the specfic display being calibrated at the beginning of that specific calibration session?

Except for long shot luck, a decent colorimeter profiled to an i1Pro will be more accurate than a C6 or a D3 with profiles from SpectraCal or Chromapure. It "becomes" the i1Pro for that particular display.

Ted,

Was that calibration done with 4.4 with the C6 profiled?

C6 has a Four Color Matrix NIST certified correction table based to an average spectral response of a large number of sampled spectral responses or LCD displays, or Plasma or LED ect.

iDisplay PRO have some correction tables using Four Color Matrix also, based to a specific LCD Brand Display, like a Sony LCD or a Samsung LCD etc, not an average of many sampled as the C6.

Using A Spectro will give you better results because you are reading the spectral response of your display you want to profile and the things are more tight.


More info about using a profiled colorimeter (taken from a specific LCD) to measure another LCD displays can be found reading that NIST Experiment:

NIST Article of Four-Color Matrix Method For Correction Of Tristimulus Colorimeters - Part 2, (In Part 1 they have used only CRT displays for testing, in Part 2 they are using LCD-CRT-OLED)

Expensive Colorimeter like Klein K-10 (6000$) can be more accurate if it's profiled from a i1PRO or a better spectro.

It's from C5+i1PRO.

I will do the calibration again using C6 this time soon.

C6 + i1PRO are working very good together with CalMAN 4.4 Beta.

I'm profiling C6 and i'm having only 0.01 - 0.02 dE76 difference measuring White with i1PRO Alone or C6 Profiled. I'm using 2 laptops, one with i1PRO and another with C6 profiled and i can check if the profiling is accurate instantly.

C6 has very good and large optics, seeing more pixels than the i1PRO if they are both mounted on-screen, i1PRO needs a small distance from the screen to match the FOV of the C6.

Perhaps not conclusive but an awakening none the less. At CEDIA I asked Derek Smith point blank if a D3 profiled to an i1Pro would be more accurate than a C6 and his answer was "Yes". Perhaps the more correct answer would have been "Maybe."

I like the Jeti that I recently used in certification training. One of my classmates bought one and I'll be next if I start doing some business with my new retirement "occupation".

Thanks, Tom.

No that's a D3 profiled to a Jeti being more accurate than an i1 on the same display.

ChromaPure's "PRO" are have a correction table applied on top of them. Since the numbers here are on the very similiar plasma to the one correction the table was created on, all you're really seeing is the repeatability of the D3 and the difference between a 10nm i1 Pro and 1nm Jeti spectro.

not quite; the PRO correction table was created with the Panasonic and the comparison was done on the Pioneer

I'd like to see an similar experiment with LCDs, since those vary quite a bit more than plasmas.

Today I did a large scale test measuring some different types of displays with my i1PRO + SpectraCAL C6 using my C6 profiled from i1PRO.

Several displays of Plasma, LCD, LED are used for this test.

I have started the test using one Plasma as a Reference (Pioneer KURO LX6090H) to profile the C6 using the i1PRO and that saved profiled i used it later to measure another 2 plasma from Panasonic (50VT20) & LG (50PV350). I measured that 2 Plasma's with i1PRO Stand-Alone to check if the profile i have take from KURO is accurate when it used for measuring another brand Plasma displays.

Later i did the same using an LG LCD (37PK450) which i profiled the C6 using the i1PRO again.

I measured Several LCD displays : Sony 32CX520, LG 22LK330, Samsung 40D503, Sony 40HX800, Toshiba 37XV733, with that C6 Saved Profile and with i1PRO standalone also.

At Last i used again a LED Samsung 40D8000 as LED Reference to make a new profile and i have measured agsin several LED's like : LG 55LW650, LG 42LV5500, Sharp 40LE924, Samsung 40C7000. I have measured with i1PRO (standalone) these LED's also to compare the results later.

Before the test, all displays had a 2 hour of warm.

All measurements taked place with both meters mounted onscreen.

For the C6 a Vangard Tripod with C6 Tripod Mount Adapter is used.

Painter's Tape from 3M is used for all displays to both meters to have good contact with the screen.

Before each profile or measurement i took a dark reading for i1PRO.

C6 operated using the factory default 5 Samples value per reading.

i1PRO operated using 5 Samples value with Low Light Trigger Enabled with '1000' Value (To be enabled at all readings).

I used AVSHD Disk with the Same Blu-Ray Player for all the readings.

5 second of delay has applied before each pattern measurement for stability.

I'm posting the results from CalMAN 4.4 Beta i have found:

The xy readings are close, the lumunance differencies had larger difference.

I can say that i can trust a colorimeter profiled from a spectro to do different brand of displays but at CMS there are differencies in Absolute Luminance of the Primary colors (if i had tested the Secondaries also i bet that the difference would be larger there in luminance.) Since the Absolute Luminance is the most important in CMS i can't a trust a profiled colorimeter to do a CMS. Spectro will do a better job there.

Because it was not clearly visible to these luminance charts the differencies in luminance levels, i used photoshop to add the numbers manually.

BTW Profiling maybe will not work from the first try, you need a lot of checks to confirm that it's co close to the reference you used. In this test i didn't had enough time to do a more accurate profilling. I tryed 2-3 to each display type and i saved the most closer to the reference. A lot of details are critical, Position of the meter, time of each pattern displayed at screen must be equal for plasma displays to prevent the temporal burn-in, some displays are using something like dimming the image after some time of displaying the same pattern , and a lot of other problems.

If anyone needs that CalMAN Saved Measurement file i can send to him with PM.

Plasma Displays:





LCD Displays:











LED Displays:

So, it seems like the profile is working quite OK now.
Now, what would be interesting is for you to do a C6 alone and see how that compared. Tom did something on a smaller scale with the i1D3-PRO, and found that they are not as bad. With your vast display available, that could also tell us how the C6 alone (without profile) fare compared to i1PRO (so for those of those that does NOT have an i1PRO, we can see if we feel like we need that). Seriously, if dE difference is less than 0.2, I don't care.

Hello,

If I buy the retail version of i1Display Pro (and am thus constrained to use the i1Profiler), will I be able to calibrate my home theater projector with i1Profiler? In particular, will i1Profiler allow me to just take readings off the screen of calibration patterns form a DVD or blu-ray? Or does i1Profiler require the computer on which it is installed to be connected to the projector because the program feeds the meter its own patterns, and basically works only in an "automatic" mode?

Thanks,
Ales

You won't be able to calibrate your projector using i1Profilier.
And if you buy a retail version of i1Display Pro you can't use it with Chromapure or Calman. If you buy an OEM version of i1Display Pro you can use it with Chromapure or Calman but not i1Profilier.

That sucks so bad... There has to be a way to use both, I can't believe X-Rite would make their own product with such a stupid limitation

It is indeed an X-Rite limitation. Supporting both in our software would be trivially easy, if X-Rite granted us a license to support the retail version.

Wouldn't it possible to use Graeme Gills driver to access the retail device if you would support his driver?

Hahh, nice joke!
I think they would become outcasted and never get any new licences from X-Rite again (as a punishment).

By the way, it would also be very nice to use ArgyllCMS's ColorMunki drivers in CalMan (with Adaptive High Resolution mode support -> yes, it's out of the spec oversampling and interpolation but it works pretty good in practice.)

Thanks, Geof. I know that the i1Display Pro retail version cannot be used with Chromapure or Calman because Xrite doesn't allow the programs to access the meter's firmware (or something to that effect). I thought about what you said and believe I understand why I can't use i1Profiler for my projector.

i1Profiler doesn't really calibrate displays or projectors--it basically tweaks video cards. For example, if my projector boosts red color relative to green and blue, i1Profiler would tweak the settings of my video card to reduce red color. That way, white would appear white on the projector as long as the projector is fed from the video card. This of course would do nothing for me if I watch movies using a blu ray player. The projector would still boost red.

Will the Display 3 with Chromapure also calibrate my LCD HD computer monitor?

Most likely No!
But this is not the fault of the Display 3 or Chromapure.

I need something that does both, can the Display3 perhaps be used with another software after I calibrate my TV? I have an Asus VH236H thats a nightmare to tweak.