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GT 430 or AMD 6670 or ? - Page 4

post #91 of 161
6/26/11 at 11:29pm
So in summary, the fully unlocked core of each family is:
Core Model CUDA Core TMU ROP Memory PureVideo HD HD Audio
GF119 520 48 8 4 64 bit 5 Yes
GF108/GF118 430/530/440 96 16 8? 128 bit 4 Yes
GF106/GF116 440 OEM/545/450/550 192 32 24 192 bit 4 Yes
GF104/GF114 460/560 384 64 32 256 bit 4 Yes
GF100/GF110 465/470/480/570/580 512 64 48 384 bit 4 No
GF108/GF118
Model CUDA cores Core Cl Shader Cl ROP MC Mem Mem Cl Mem BW TDP Length Street Price
GeForce GT 430 DDR3 96 700 MHz 1400 MHz 4 128 bit DDR3 800 MHz 25.6 GB/s 49W 5.7 in (LP) $60
GeForce GT 530 DDR3 (OEM) 96 700 MHz 1400 MHz 8? 128 bit DDR3 898 MHz 28.8 GB/s 50W 5.7 in (LP) -
GeForce GT 440 DDR3 96 810 MHz 1620 MHz 4 128 bit DDR3 900 MHz 28.8 GB/s 65W 5.7 in $70
GeForce GT 440 GDDR5 96 810 MHz 1620 MHz 4 128 bit GDDR5 1600 MHz 51.2 GB/s 65W 5.7 in $80
GF106/GF116
Model CUDA cores Core Cl Shader Cl ROP MC Mem Mem Cl Mem BW TDP Length Street Price
GeForce GT 440 GDDR3 (OEM) 144 594 MHz 1189 MHz 24 192 bit GDDR3 900 MHz 43.2GB/s 56W 5.7 in -
GeForce GT 545 DDR3 144 720 MHz 1440 MHz 24 192 bit DDR3 900 MHz 43.2 GB/s 70W 5.7 in $150
GeForce GT 545 GDDR5 (OEM) 144 870 MHz 1740 MHz 16 128 bit GDDR5 1998 MHz 63.9 GB/s 105W 8.25 in -
GeForce GTS 450 GDDR5 192 783 MHz 1566 MHz 16 128 bit GDDR5 1804 MHz 57.7 GB/s 106W 8.25 in $100
GeForce GTX 550 Ti GDDR5 192 900 MHz 1800 MHz 24 192 bit GDDR5 2052 MHz 98.5 GB/s 116W 8.25 in $125
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post #92 of 161
6/27/11 at 12:29am
GeForce GT 545 DDR3, 70W, 5.7 in is attractive, but who would want to pay $150, when GTS 450 can be purchased for $75-$100 AR? I hope other manufacturers follow EVGA and release GT 545 DDR3.
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post #93 of 161
6/27/11 at 1:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Simply because there is no video decoder that can use AMD's UVD and hardware post-processors under madVR. If you want to use AMD's hardware/driver's algorithms, you have to use DXVA/EVR.

I thought that Mathias developed Madvr with an AMD card in his system and went on record as saying that he did not have access to an Nvidia card!

The Video Decoder is an altogether different matter and IMHO really should not be bracketed with Madvr
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post #94 of 161
6/27/11 at 2:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by devoz View Post

Finally I am curious why no AMD comments have come in this whole discussion??
Is the quality of output on an AMD card not able to match what Nvidia developments are throwing up?
No one has said why not just go the AMD 6670 upgrade path?
..after all it is the newest version of my older card(ie 4670).

I stand by my earlier posting, if you have a high quality setup with a big screen AMD simply beats Nvidia for plain video quality. Try installing each card and simply look at white characters on your screen. The picture with all my Nvidia cards of which I have four 6600, 6600GT, 8600 & 440GT shows a very light grey rather than white. I have an AMD 4650, 2 x4670 & 5670 and they all show true white, at least true to the default on both my Pioneer plasma and Sony 90ES PJ.

As mentioned earlier, I really have no idea why the AMD picture is so much better! Frankly the Nvidia card was so much easier to setup out of the box I would have loved to stay with the card, unfortunately neither my partner or I could live with it and so I am back with my AMD 5670 in spite of not being able to decode the latest BBC HD transmissions with the latest drivers (The Nvidia decoded just fine)

So I hope you can see I really could have benefited from staying with the Nvidia 440 card but the image quality just di not hack it.

As for the Nvidia 440 needing GDDR5, mine is a DDR3 and the GPU never seems to exceed 55% whatever I throw at it!
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post #95 of 161
6/27/11 at 3:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

I stand by my earlier posting, if you have a high quality setup with a big screen AMD simply beats Nvidia for plain video quality. Try installing each card and simply look at white characters on your screen. The picture with all my Nvidia cards of which I have four 6600, 6600GT, 8600 & 440GT shows a very light grey rather than white. I have an AMD 4650, 2 x4670 & 5670 and they all show true white, at least true to the default on both my Pioneer plasma and Sony 90ES PJ.

As mentioned earlier, I really have no idea why the AMD picture is so much better! Frankly the Nvidia card was so much easier to setup out of the box I would have loved to stay with the card, unfortunately neither my partner or I could live with it and so I am back with my AMD 5670 in spite of not being able to decode the latest BBC HD transmissions with the latest drivers (The Nvidia decoded just fine)

So I hope you can see I really could have benefited from staying with the Nvidia 440 card but the image quality just di not hack it.

As for the Nvidia 440 needing GDDR5, mine is a DDR3 and the GPU never seems to exceed 55% whatever I throw at it!

Thanks Beamer...the main issue I have with AMD..is the drivers
it can be a real lottery as to which ones work.

I am using 11.5a...and as I said I get occasional driver failure
..where the screen goes black and it then eventually
rescues itself(the driver) ...the picture returns
and it tells you there was a driver problem
...seems related to flash somehow in my case
...and then earlier ones(10.XX had issues with HDMI HD audio)
plus they seem to come out every month...
and mainly seem related to improving game performance.

So I have an Nvidia GT 220 and it doesnt even have latest driver
and works very nicely (good picture displaying on my Sony LCD TV).
Cant say I noticed the issue of grey characters versus white...
but now you have mentioned it ..I will take note

So I do get good picture with the 4670 as well...
but now I have the GTX 550 ...we will see how it with
MadVR ..compares with my existing 4670 setup.
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post #96 of 161
6/27/11 at 3:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by devoz View Post


Thanks Beamer...the main issue I have with AMD..is the drivers
it can be a real lottery as to which ones work.

I am using 11.5a...and as I said I get occasional driver failure
..where the screen goes black and it then eventually
rescues itself(the driver) ...the picture returns
and it tells you there was a driver problem
...seems related to flash somehow in my case
...and then earlier ones(10.XX had issues with HDMI HD audio)
plus they seem to come out every month...
and mainly seem related to improving game performance.

So I have an Nvidia GT 220 and it doesnt even have latest driver
and works very nicely (good picture displaying on my Sony LCD TV).
Cant say I noticed the issue of grey characters versus white...
but now you have mentioned it ..I will take note

So I do get good picture with the 4670 as well...
but now I have the GTX 550 ...we will see how it with
MadVR ..compares with my existing 4670 setup.

Fortunatley AMD seem to have nailed the audio driver issues (not before time) and cat 11.6 seems to be working ok for me.

I look forward to your GTX550 results
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post #97 of 161
6/27/11 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

I stand by my earlier posting, if you have a high quality setup with a big screen AMD simply beats Nvidia for plain video quality. Try installing each card and simply look at white characters on your screen. The picture with all my Nvidia cards of which I have four 6600, 6600GT, 8600 & 440GT shows a very light grey rather than white. I have an AMD 4650, 2 x4670 & 5670 and they all show true white, at least true to the default on both my Pioneer plasma and Sony 90ES PJ.

Could be a video vs. PC levels (16-235 vs. 0-255) issue.
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post #98 of 161
6/27/11 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

Could be a video vs. PC levels (16-235 vs. 0-255) issue.

All my equipment is setup with greyscale patterns.
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post #99 of 161
6/27/11 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

All my equipment is setup with greyscale patterns.

Flat grayscale tells you nothing about whether your levels correspond at the source and display.
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post #100 of 161
6/27/11 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
GeForce GT 545 DDR3, 70W, 5.7 in is attractive, but who would want to pay $150, when GTS 450 can be purchased for $75-$100 AR? I hope other manufacturers follow EVGA and release GT 545 DDR3.
I bought a GT 545 DDR , they are 1.5 gibabytes of ram by the way. It was $139 with a $10 mail in rebate.. I can' t say why.. haven't looked at settings but as a drop in no driver change replacement for a 430.. the 545 is sharper with better black.. TDP is what made it interesting to me.. the better video was a surpise. First one had a bad fan.. ran fine for about 8 hours and than started causing reboots. Looked and saw the fan was not moving, gave a starting sping and then the fan ran but seemed slow. Loaded EVGA Precision set the fan manually to 100 percent and the temp would rise to 100 C and the reboot.

I had to make the 25 mile round trip to Fry's to swap it out this morning.. arrgh.. The replacement is running.. we wil see if this one is good.
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post #101 of 161
6/27/11 at 1:49pm
To be precise, you are talking about DXVA/EVR, right? There must not be a PQ difference between the graphics cards under madVR if everything is tweaked right (well, apart from deinterlacing, for which a NVIDIA higher card with LAV CUVID Decoder is obviously better).
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post #102 of 161
6/27/11 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

To be precise, you are talking about DXVA/EVR, right?

If you are replying to me.. to be precise I meant what I said. So madvr and DXVA/EVR both were better..

To provide more detail I mean that I did not change any driver control panel settings,nor did I change madvr settings.. the settings are the same in that I didn't change them. I don't know the precise before and after card swap settings as I did not make notes. I wasn't expecting any visual difference without cranking madvr up.

The possibility of running higher settings in madvr.. and the TDP were why I bought the card. The settings are the same unless, the card swap caused the nVidia driver to reset some things when the 430 came out and 545 went in..

I can't say with any certainty why except the video looks much nicer..
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post #103 of 161
6/27/11 at 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devoz View Post

Can anyone shed some light on latest MadVR 0.65
...to create the 3DLUTs do I use YCMS?
or do I need to use an external software/hardware calibration tool?

Prior to v0.62 MadVR used a Look Up Table (aka LUT) to generate
the conversion values for YUV to RGB color space conversion.

Shaders are used to calculate the values in realtime in the current version.

In order to get the best use of the 3DLUT, a spectrophotometer is required
and it is best to find a professional calibrator with the right equipment.

The HTPC is not the best place to do a calibration if you have other devices
such as a BD player or TV Set-Top box connected to the display. The best
place is to have is the display itself.
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post #104 of 161
6/28/11 at 5:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post

Prior to v0.62 MadVR used a Look Up Table (aka LUT) to generate
the conversion values for YUV to RGB color space conversion.

Shaders are used to calculate the values in realtime in the current version.

In order to get the best use of the 3DLUT, a spectrophotometer is required
and it is best to find a professional calibrator with the right equipment.

The HTPC is not the best place to do a calibration if you have other devices
such as a BD player or TV Set-Top box connected to the display. The best
place is to have is the display itself.

Yeah Tong Chia...
I was just wanting to confirm that to generate a 3D look Up Table...for my Sony screen(so you get correct conversions as you mention)that without a proper spectrophotometer you cant create a proper LUT ?

...and therefore as I dont have one
I cant take advantage of this part of MadVR. Damn!

or do the shaders generate one..huh? ...Tong Chia ..can you expand on this part??
I only have a HTPC connected to my screen...
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post #105 of 161
6/29/11 at 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devoz View Post

Yeah Tong Chia...
I was just wanting to confirm that to generate a 3D look Up Table...for my Sony screen(so you get correct conversions as you mention)that without a proper spectrophotometer you cant create a proper LUT ?

...and therefore as I dont have one
I cant take advantage of this part of MadVR. Damn!

or do the shaders generate one..huh? ...Tong Chia ..can you expand on this part??
I only have a HTPC connected to my screen...

The 3DLUT is logically 2 parts. RGB color conversion matrix and correction offsets for your display.

MadVR 0.65 does the first part internally now so you are not missing out on the high quality color conversion.

The correction offsets have to be measured with a high degree of accuracy, to get any benefit of correction for your display.
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post #106 of 161
6/30/11 at 12:25am
I am not really clear on which upscaling and downscaling options are the best in madvr.. which function and how many taps? Assuming I have sufficient graphics hp to run it.

Spline 3 or 4 taps seems to be my interpretation.. I tried to google this and got more confused than I was to start with.. some stuff said no more two taps.. and as to which function to use that was even more contradictory. I don't seem to drop any frame by choosing any particular combination.
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post #107 of 161
6/30/11 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post


Prior to v0.62 MadVR used a Look Up Table (aka LUT) to generate
the conversion values for YUV to RGB color space conversion.

Shaders are used to calculate the values in realtime in the current version.

In order to get the best use of the 3DLUT, a spectrophotometer is required
and it is best to find a professional calibrator with the right equipment.

The HTPC is not the best place to do a calibration if you have other devices
such as a BD player or TV Set-Top box connected to the display. The best
place is to have is the display itself.

You say the best place is the display itself, what do you mean? The only thing that I can think of that actually originates from the display are the menu/osd, and you dont want to use that to calibrate. Even OTA/cable tv or a built in streaming tv content all originates elsewhere. Whenever Ive had professional calibraters adjust my displays (4 times) they've always used bluray discs.
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post #108 of 161
7/10/11 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by devoz View Post

Thanks Beamer...the main issue I have with AMD..is the drivers
it can be a real lottery as to which ones work.

I am using 11.5a...and as I said I get occasional driver failure
..where the screen goes black and it then eventually
rescues itself(the driver) ...the picture returns
and it tells you there was a driver problem
...seems related to flash somehow in my case
...and then earlier ones(10.XX had issues with HDMI HD audio)
plus they seem to come out every month...
and mainly seem related to improving game performance.

So I have an Nvidia GT 220 and it doesnt even have latest driver
and works very nicely (good picture displaying on my Sony LCD TV).
Cant say I noticed the issue of grey characters versus white...
but now you have mentioned it ..I will take note

So I do get good picture with the 4670 as well...
but now I have the GTX 550 ...we will see how it with
MadVR ..compares with my existing 4670 setup.

Any news regarding your testing?
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post #109 of 161
7/10/11 at 8:51am
I've been reading quite a bit recently, and it seems this is a rather technical thread regarding madVR and LAV CUVID, wonder if someone might be willing to give me a crash course of sorts:

What are the benefits of LAV CUVID vs "regular" DXVA?
If we don't need a CMS, what are the benefits of madVR, is it mainly the scaling options and chroma upsampling?


Quote:
Originally Posted by joeydrunk View Post

You say the best place is the display itself, what do you mean? The only thing that I can think of that actually originates from the display are the menu/osd, and you dont want to use that to calibrate. Even OTA/cable tv or a built in streaming tv content all originates elsewhere. Whenever Ive had professional calibraters adjust my displays (4 times) they've always used bluray discs.

But those professionals always calibrate using the settings on the display right? That's the point. The display is the best place to perform any sort of calibration, so long as it's possible. Doing it in the display means:

All sources (so long as their output is "reference") result in the same calibrated display.
The adjustments are done with the highest precision (HDMI/DVI/Component will lose a good bit of precision due to low supported bit depth).

Specifically about display or madVR doing the CMS, if you use madVR, well for one, none of your other sources will benefit. But perhaps bigger than that, the output of madVR is 8-bit RGb due to limitations of PC graphics drivers (32 bit color is 8-bit per channel RGB), where as the result of the CMS calculations requires much more than 8 bits of precision.
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post #110 of 161
7/10/11 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

What are the benefits of LAV CUVID vs "regular" DXVA?

It is an alternate interface to NVIDIA's video engine, with progressive content, I do not notice any difference. between the decoder modes (DXVA vs CUDA)

LAV CUVID offers a line doubling mode when deinterlacing in addition to the regular DXVA frame doubling method.
It is a matter of preference as to which is better. DXVA's method is used by the vendors because of reduced load on the video hardware.

LAV CUVID has the option to deinterlace and line double/interpolate the 60i fields to produce 60fps content.
DXVA combines the fields to produce 30fps and frame doubles the output to produce 60fps.

Quote:
If we don't need a CMS, what are the benefits of madVR, is it mainly the scaling options and chroma upsampling?

Correct. I don't use CMS on MadVR for the reasons you stated.

It brings consistency of the output of the HTPC that was previously lacking
(NVIDIA with their default 16-235 level compression bug and ATI's semi regular breaking of their driver with each new Catalyst release)
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post #111 of 161
7/10/11 at 12:28pm
Does the GTX 550 Ti support True HD/DTS HD?
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post #112 of 161
7/10/11 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post

It is an alternate interface to NVIDIA's video engine, with progressive content, I do not notice any difference. between the decoder modes (DXVA vs CUDA)

LAV CUVID offers a line doubling mode when deinterlacing in addition to the regular DXVA frame doubling method.
It is a matter of preference as to which is better. DXVA's method is used by the vendors because of reduced load on the video hardware.

LAV CUVID has the option to deinterlace and line double/interpolate the 60i fields to produce 60fps content.
DXVA combines the fields to produce 30fps and frame doubles the output to produce 60fps.

Ah, I see, that would seem to be of great use for recorded (1080i) content.

Quote:
Correct. I don't use CMS on MadVR for the reasons you stated.

It brings consistency of the output of the HTPC that was previously lacking
(NVIDIA with their default 16-235 level compression bug and ATI's semi regular breaking of their driver with each new Catalyst release)

Cool, the levels inconsistency has been one of my biggest complaints with PC playback for quite a while now.
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post #113 of 161
7/11/11 at 2:59am
Thread Starter 
Beamer....Had to wait for some other additions to arrive...
installing the new GTX 550 in next few days...

BigZAJ...yes it does support True HD/DTS HD...
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post #114 of 161
7/11/11 at 3:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by devoz View Post

Beamer....Had to wait for some other additions to arrive...
installing the new GTX 550 in next few days...

BigZAJ...yes it does support True HD/DTS HD...

Bitstreaming is the easy part, getting picture quality => than the AMD card is another matter

I wait with baited breath
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post #115 of 161
7/11/11 at 3:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I've been reading quite a bit recently, and it seems this is a rather technical thread regarding madVR and LAV CUVID, wonder if someone might be willing to give me a crash course of sorts:

What are the benefits of LAV CUVID vs "regular" DXVA?
If we don't need a CMS, what are the benefits of madVR, is it mainly the scaling options and chroma upsampling?

But those professionals always calibrate using the settings on the display right? That's the point. The display is the best place to perform any sort of calibration, so long as it's possible. Doing it in the display means:

All sources (so long as their output is "reference") result in the same calibrated display.
The adjustments are done with the highest precision (HDMI/DVI/Component will lose a good bit of precision due to low supported bit depth).

Specifically about display or madVR doing the CMS, if you use madVR, well for one, none of your other sources will benefit. But perhaps bigger than that, the output of madVR is 8-bit RGb due to limitations of PC graphics drivers (32 bit color is 8-bit per channel RGB), where as the result of the CMS calculations requires much more than 8 bits of precision.

I thought he was talking about using content that originated on the dispaly not the settings on the display, yes of course the displayis is the best place to calibrate. You still will absoluly benefit from tweaking madvr it just won't have an impact on other sources.
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post #116 of 161
7/11/11 at 10:52am
I'm really pondering a jump from my AMD 6670 to NVidia GTX 550. The main reason is that about 80% of my movie watching is ripped blu-rays @ 23Hz. The skips with the AMD card are really bugging me the more I notice them.

Additionally the remainder of my watching is ripped TV shows using MPC-HC, most of them are older series in SD. Will the MPC-HC options available to me with the NVidia really outperform the AMD in this aspect?
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post #117 of 161
7/12/11 at 5:50am
Thread Starter 
Damn and blast!
My case has a recess/ridge next to the PCI slots
and guess what ...with the new GTX 550 installed
the accompanying mini HDMI to HDMI adapter wont fit!! arggh
The mini HDMI slot is just too close to the case recess

So unless I want to grind some of the case off(which may fix it)
or slice some of the Mini HDMI adapter off
it looks like I have to get another card...

I will have to take the case to the supplier and see
on the spot what options I have...
The GTS 450s all have this same arrangement(ie mini HDMI)
maybe back to the GT440...
or even go to an AMD 6670
We'll see tomorrow...
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post #118 of 161
7/12/11 at 5:56am
Best/easiest/cheapest solution I believe :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-074-_-Product

Won't a mini-HDMI cable fit ?
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post #119 of 161
7/12/11 at 7:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaaden View Post

Best/easiest/cheapest solution I believe :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-074-_-Product

Won't a mini-HDMI cable fit ?

Thanks..Shaaden...I'm in Oz...and would love a newegg here!
I would need a 3 metre cable ...and the present one I have is a goodie
and cost me $80
so I will first see if maybe the ASUS GT440 that Renethx suggested originally
is able to solve the issue..ie it doesnt have the hdmi position
on the card problem.
It seems to use a full size input...so hopefully its like my current
AMD4670...and isnt too close in its HDMI position.

The next solution which is rather more drastic...and that is wait
and stick with my current card...and save for a NEW Case..without these
issues.
I was planning on a major upgrade early next year(including the case)
but part of that may have to be bought forward.

First we'll see what the GT 440 is like..
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post #120 of 161
7/12/11 at 2:38pm
I want to run madvr but need to make sure my hardware will not be undersized.

I have a G620 Processor and GT430. I know from reading the posts that this combo will probably not work well.

Am I better off going to an i3 2100 or using the G620 and getting a better video card? What would work with the G620?
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