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Placement & Bi-amping Paradigm Studio 60 w/ Denon AVR-3312CI

post #1 of 14
6/20/11 at 12:31pm
Thread Starter 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1458747/a-photo-tour-of-my-2-1-3-1-5-1-viewing-listening-areas-vpi-project-turntable-plasma-denon-paradigm-peach-tree-b-w

 

updated thread ^

 

I did eventually bi-amp and it did work very well for me!


Edited by RyanA3 - 2/17/13 at 11:53am
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post #2 of 14
6/20/11 at 12:47pm
First off, passive bi-amping with the AVR isn't going to get you any more power. You need to add an external amp if you want more power.

1. There likely is, but 2 sets of regular wire work just as well (although again, arguably no real benefit to this passive bi-amping).

2. You'll likely want to move the speakers away from the wall at least 1-2'. Whether you place them closer to the TV is personal preference, as long as they are both equidistant, you should be fine. You also may want to move the sub to another part of the room to give the FL speaker more space, although if you prefer more bass effect then it's current position should be fine.

3. Uh yeh .. not the way to use the Audyssey mic ... get a tripod or a boom to connect the mic to and then place it at head height in the primary listening position and at the same height and within a 2' radius for the remaining 7 positions. if you are getting a sub channel level of -12db after running AUTO SETUP, it's because the sub is in the corner, so lower the volume knob on the sub and rerun AUTO SETUP (or else relocated the sub).
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post #3 of 14
6/20/11 at 12:47pm
1. Two pairs of regular wires will do fine (but a bigger amp is almost always better than bi-amping).
2. Corners are bad places for speakers and subs.
3. Get a mic stand or a tripod. Not only are leather sofas always bad acoustically but any large mass close to the mic is a complication because of reflections.
4. Go to the "official" Audyssey thread here on AVS and read the setup guide in the first post.
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post #4 of 14
6/20/11 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

First off, passive bi-amping with the AVR isn't going to get you any more power. You need to add an external amp if you want more power.

1. There likely is, but 2 sets of regular wire work just as well.

2. You're correct .. not a good picture from the side .. however, you'll likely want to move the speakers away from the wall at least 1-2'. Whether you place them closer to the TV is personal preference, as long as they are both equidistant, you should be fine.

3. Uh yeh .. not the way to use the Audyssey mic ... get a tripod or a boom to connect the mic to and then place it at head height in the primary listening position and at the same height and within a 2' radius for the remaining 7 positions.

+1 to #3. It took a couple of times running Audyssey to get the best sound out of it. There is a walkthrough somewhere on here that gives you do's and dont's when running Audyssey. These are a couple of the major ones:

1. completely move the furnitiure and use a mic stand or boom for the 7 listening positions
2. turn off anything that can create interference (i.e. cell phones etc.)
3. if you have your lights on a dimmer turn them off as the the buzzing can create interference
4. try not to have any ambient noise ( I did mine in the a.m. when I knew everyone would be sleeping).

Following these rules I felt that Audyssey did its best.
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post #5 of 14
6/20/11 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

1. completely move the furnitiure and use a mic stand or boom for the 7 listening positions

Move the furniture? Nope, you want it exactly where it will be when actually listening to the system. All you want to avoid is having any of those reflective leather surfaces within 18" of the mic. That's why he needs a mic stand.
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post #6 of 14
6/20/11 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Move the furniture? Nope, you want it exactly where it will be when actually listening to the system. All you want to avoid is having any of those reflective leather surfaces within 18" of the mic. That's why he needs a mic stand.

I guess I must have read that wrong from the walkthrough I printed off. Maybe I should rerun mine now. Makes sense now that I think of it. So, if you need to be 18" from reflective surfaces should I recline the back. That is the only way I could think of to get the mic 18" away.
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post #7 of 14
6/20/11 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

I guess I must have read that wrong from the walkthrough I printed off. Maybe I should rerun mine now. Makes sense now that I think of it. So, if you need to be 18" from reflective surfaces should I recline the back. That is the only way I could think of to get the mic 18" away.

Recline it a bit and consider covering it with an absorbent blanket during the test.
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post #8 of 14
6/20/11 at 1:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

First off, passive bi-amping with the AVR isn't going to get you any more power. You need to add an external amp if you want more power.

1. There likely is, but 2 sets of regular wire work just as well (although again, arguably no real benefit to this passive bi-amping).

2. You'll likely want to move the speakers away from the wall at least 1-2'. Whether you place them closer to the TV is personal preference, as long as they are both equidistant, you should be fine. You also may want to move the sub to another part of the room to give the FL speaker more space, although if you prefer more bass effect then it's current position should be fine.

3. Uh yeh .. not the way to use the Audyssey mic ... get a tripod or a boom to connect the mic to and then place it at head height in the primary listening position and at the same height and within a 2' radius for the remaining 7 positions. if you are getting a sub channel level of -12db after running AUTO SETUP, it's because the sub is in the corner, so lower the volume knob on the sub and rerun AUTO SETUP (or else relocated the sub).

so much great info in the replies i got so far. on the mobile, so i'll reply to your note about the -db in the sub right now, and comment the rest asap.

with this avr and the previous elite, I always get like -20db or more with my sub and it always thinks it's 20' away. When it's 10'.

so the recliner situation is huge! thank you and all!

I have many-a-camera tripod, can't wait to run it again!
and i've only run 1 location so far with the audessy. I just found out today that I need to run mulitiple times. I was not very impressed with this receiver (sq wise). no wonder. I need to wake it up. feature-set is incredible though.

maybe I don't need to focus on bi-amping afterall. are my studio 60s even THAT power hungry?

THANKS ALL SO MUCH
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post #9 of 14
6/20/11 at 1:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

I guess I must have read that wrong from the walkthrough I printed off. Maybe I should rerun mine now. Makes sense now that I think of it. So, if you need to be 18" from reflective surfaces should I recline the back. That is the only way I could think of to get the mic 18" away.

if u need to borrom a mic stand or tripod, i'm in lafayette hill.
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post #10 of 14
6/20/11 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

maybe I don't need to focus on bi-amping afterall. are my studio 60s even THAT power hungry?

I have run them with as little as 20wpc but prefer their current 200wpc drive. Remember, if you are using a sub, much of the power requirements are transferred to it.
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post #11 of 14
6/20/11 at 1:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I have run them with as little as 20wpc but prefer their current 200wpc drive. Remember, if you are using a sub, much of the power requirements are transferred to it.

so I should bi-amp them with my receiver, or it's not worth it, as someone else mentioned above?
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post #12 of 14
6/20/11 at 1:47pm
Do not bother.
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post #13 of 14
6/21/11 at 4:23am
Thread Starter 
Moved the sub a bit closer to tv. Fronts too.

Covered the recliner, that the mic was behind/above on a stand, with blankets. Switching from seat to seat, 5x.

I had only done 1 calibration placement. Now 5.

Huge difference. They need to print the manual and include it with every receiver! Paper is sustainable, do it

Thank you all for the support thus far! As always, I'm appreciative!
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post #14 of 14
6/20/12 at 9:11pm
I also purchased the 3312. My question in regards to biamping is: can I run the second set of wires from the 2 front speakers to F-WIDE or F-HEIGHT terminals instead of the SURR-BACK/AMP ASSIGN terminals? I would like to have my cake and eat it too. I want the benefit of 7.1 sound and the added benefit of bi-amping the front floor speakers.
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