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Building a Dinner Theater w/ DIY Speakers, Subs, etc... - Page 6

post #151 of 558
3/5/12 at 5:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sx460 View Post


Since you'll be using discrete amps would it make more sense to use a preamp rather than an AVR since you won't need the amps in the AVR?

The only problem is separates are not very affordable when compared to the functionality of an AVR with pre outs is used instead. Sure there's added
Functions a pre like the Onkyo has over an AVR, but in the OPs case I don't know if there's value in them. RS232 control could be very useful in a commercial installation but that's also available in an AVR. A dual zone AVR would make the AVRs amp less of a sacrifice as it could be used to power some background speakers for mealtime music.
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post #152 of 558
3/5/12 at 5:26am
Thread Starter 
@sx ... +1come on what Mayhem said. There are not many ampless preamps out there. I figured I would just find an AVR with preouts that also has the room EQ properties I need. It would be nice if it even had built-in highpass and lowpass capabilities for the LCR and LFE channels. That said, I saw excellent reviews on the Marantz AV7005, which is what I believe sx was talking about. I just have yet to research what the 7005 offers that an AVR with preouts does not. I want to match the quality of the rest of my system; neither overpaying nor underspending. (I don't want to put Yugo rims on an Aston Martin, but also don't want to chrome up a Yugo.)
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post #153 of 558
3/5/12 at 6:13am
Yes, you are looking for an AVR with XLR outs that has MultEQ available, and if possible, MultEQXT Pro, allowing more than just the 6 or 8 measurement positions. There is a way to get your own Pro kit through Audyssey, rather than having an installer come and set it up.

My question for you:

Will you be using BluRays for presentation or hard drives from the film distributors? This will DEFINITELY affect whether or not an AVR will be a suitable option. If you will be getting hard drives from Paramount/Universal/Sony etc, You may need professional cinema processor(s) to send signals to the amps. Inquire about this to whoever will be providing your content.

JSS
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post #154 of 558
3/5/12 at 7:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Yes, you are looking for an AVR with XLR outs that has MultEQ available, and if possible, MultEQXT Pro, allowing more than just the 6 or 8 measurement positions. There is a way to get your own Pro kit through Audyssey, rather than having an installer come and set it up.

My question for you:

Will you be using BluRays for presentation or hard drives from the film distributors? This will DEFINITELY affect whether or not an AVR will be a suitable option. If you will be getting hard drives from Paramount/Universal/Sony etc, You may need professional cinema processor(s) to send signals to the amps. Inquire about this to whoever will be providing your content.

JSS

If we just do 2nd run movies, then it is blue-ray. The price point for these movies is not quite at the "break even" point for a theater our size, assuming we are full every night, which we may, because as a dinner theater, we will rely on advance ticket sales; as opposed to a regular theater. We may be priced out of 1st run movies, but we don't know yet. It's a good question though. I will have to get back to you on that one.

The point of the dinner theater is not to make money on the movie itself, but on the wine and food.
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post #155 of 558
3/5/12 at 7:22am
Thread Starter 
Speaking of blue-ray - Does anyone know of a good rack-mountable blue-ray player? I suppose they probably make rack mount shelves that you could set one on...as that's probably what we will have to do the the AVR or preamp. Or perhaps they make retrofit kits for non-rack mount components?
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post #156 of 558
3/5/12 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

Speaking of blue-ray - Does anyone know of a good rack-mountable blue-ray player? I suppose they probably make rack mount shelves that you could set one on...as that's probably what we will have to do the the AVR or preamp. Or perhaps they make retrofit kits for non-rack mount components?

The denon AVR's all have optional rackmount ears. Ive had the 2311 and now the 3311 and both have rack ear kits available. I love the functionality of the 3311 and the airplay availability is AWESOME. I can control the AVR from anywhere in my house using an iphone app it's quite convenient.
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post #157 of 558
3/5/12 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Yes, you are looking for an AVR with XLR outs that has MultEQ available, and if possible, MultEQXT Pro, allowing more than just the 6 or 8 measurement positions. There is a way to get your own Pro kit through Audyssey, rather than having an installer come and set it up.

My question for you:

Will you be using BluRays for presentation or hard drives from the film distributors? This will DEFINITELY affect whether or not an AVR will be a suitable option. If you will be getting hard drives from Paramount/Universal/Sony etc, You may need professional cinema processor(s) to send signals to the amps. Inquire about this to whoever will be providing your content.

JSS

I believe the amplifiers the OP was leaning towards had RCA/line level inputs as well as XLR. For such short cable runs as inside a rack, the balanced line offer no real advantage. But understanding your point on media, showing 1st run content other than independent films would be quite cost prohibitive.....although the OPs clients are likely OK with spending $100+ for a bottle of $20 wine so a $25 movie ticket might be within reach.
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post #158 of 558
3/5/12 at 10:48am
Thread Starter 
It looks like the Denon AVR2112CI has everything we would need for $649 at Best Buy. The main things I was looking for were:

7.2 Channel Pre-outs
Audyssey MultiEQ XT
2 HDMI 1.4 Outputs

Would this AVR be missing any elements essential to our application?
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post #159 of 558
3/5/12 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

It looks like the Denon AVR2112CI has everything we would need for $649 at Best Buys. The main things I was looking for were:

7.2 Channel Pre-outs
Audyssey MultiEQ XT
2 HDMI 1.4 Outputs

Would this AVR be missing any elements essential to our application?

Does it have airplay? I promise you will want to have that
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post #160 of 558
3/5/12 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

It looks like the Denon AVR2112CI has everything we would need for $649 at Best Buy. The main things I was looking for were:

7.2 Channel Pre-outs
Audyssey MultiEQ XT
2 HDMI 1.4 Outputs

Would this AVR be missing any elements essential to our application?

The 2112CI does not have 7.2 preouts...only Zone 2 and SW pre-outs, at RCA line level.

Make sure the receiver you choose has online firmware upgrade-ability. Doing firmware upgrades otherwise is a hassle.....esp Denon.

One more thing. If you plan on running the line outs directly to pro amps, make sure you have the headroom not to clip the line outs if any EQ the receiver places on the signal is boost, and enough headroom to properly drive the pro amps.

JSS
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post #161 of 558
3/5/12 at 11:49am
I remember seeing a Behringer device that accepted rca and converted to xlr. It was similar to this one...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...umber=248-6306
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post #162 of 558
3/5/12 at 2:11pm
The Onkyo 709 is the budget solution with both 7.2 pre outs and RS232 control as well as Apps for background music and DNLA streaming for playback of stored media such as in house previews or whatever you can come up with.....plus aid. MultieQ XT
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post #163 of 558
3/5/12 at 7:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

I remember seeing a Behringer device that accepted rca and converted to xlr. It was similar to this one...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...umber=248-6306

The Behringer EPQ2000 & EPQ1200 amps have RCA inputs. I am guessing that means an RCA to XLR converter is rendered unnecessary.
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post #164 of 558
3/5/12 at 7:49pm
Thread Starter 
If I am grouping all four F20s together under the screen, is there really any advantage to a 7.2 AVR over a 7.1 AVR?
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post #165 of 558
3/5/12 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

If I am grouping all four F20s together under the screen, is there really any advantage to a 7.2 AVR over a 7.1 AVR?

If the receiver was able to calibrate each of the subwoofer outs independent, the yes very valuable indeed regardless of co-location. Sadly the recommended Onkyo sub outs are parallel so no sonic advantage. But the Onkyo is the most affordable AVR currently available
that offers all of the functionality that you'll need. And I noted your amp choice with RCA/Line inputs earlier....the Onkyo and the Behringers will play very nicely together.
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post #166 of 558
3/6/12 at 3:24am
I think you have a winner...

JSS
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post #167 of 558
3/6/12 at 3:59am
Thread Starter 
Only one thing on the 709....I am not sure all of the preouts are what we are thinking. I don't se RLS and RRS. They are labeled as FH and FW.
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post #168 of 558
3/6/12 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

Only one thing on the 709....I am not sure all of the preouts are what we are thinking. I don't se RLS and RRS. They are labeled as FH and FW.

They're assignable . Download the manual from the Onkyo site.
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post #169 of 558
3/6/12 at 10:48am
Thread Starter 
Okay, the Onkyo TX-NR709 it is. I have done additional research, and with the vote of confidence from those who participate in this thread; I see no reason to spend any more. Most reputable online places has it for $799 + Shipping. Best Buy shows a regular price of $899, but their website shows it is on sale for $649, and the one next to my house has them instock. So, with the speaker and subwoofer configuration figured out, the Behringer EPQ2000 & EPQ1200 to run them, and the Onkyo 709 to push the signals; what is left to decide? Am I missing anything below? Any suggestions on what to use for the blu-ray player and projector?

[DECIDED]
1. (3) 4pi Loudspeakers for LCR
2. (12) 1pi Loudspeakers for Surround
3. (4) F20 Subs for LFE
4. (3) Behringer EPQ2000 for LCR
5. (5) Behringer EPQ1200 for Surrounds & LFE
6. (1) Onkyo TX-NR709 AVR

[UNDECIDED]
7. (1) Blu-ray Player?
8. (1) BenQ SH960 Projector?
9. (1) 180" AT Screen?
10. Other Components?
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post #170 of 558
3/6/12 at 2:17pm
Oppo bluray player.
Seymour AV DIY screen.
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post #171 of 558
3/6/12 at 2:23pm
Thread Starter 
Just purchased the Onkyo at Best Buy. Its the only store in Iowa that had one...and I got the last one. I realize you can buy them on their website too, but I still feel lucky haha.
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post #172 of 558
3/6/12 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

Okay, the Onkyo TX-NR709 it is. I have done additional research, and with the vote of confidence from those who participate in this thread; I see no reason to spend any more. Most reputable online places has it for $799 + Shipping. Best Buy shows a regular price of $899, but their website shows it is on sale for $649, and the one next to my house has them instock. So, with the speaker and subwoofer configuration figured out, the Behringer EPQ2000 & EPQ1200 to run them, and the Onkyo 709 to push the signals; what is left to decide? Am I missing anything below? Any suggestions on what to use for the blu-ray player and projector?

[DECIDED]
1. (3) 4pi Loudspeakers for LCR
2. (12) 1pi Loudspeakers for Surround
3. (4) F20 Subs for LFE
4. (3) Behringer EPQ2000 for LCR
5. (5) Behringer EPQ1200 for Surrounds & LFE
6. (1) Onkyo TX-NR709 AVR

[UNDECIDED]
7. (1) Blu-ray Player?
8. (1) BenQ SH960 Projector?
9. (1) 180" AT Screen?
10. Other Components?

Yes you still need to decide when I can come and listen to the system

Sounds like it is really coming together.
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post #173 of 558
3/6/12 at 3:17pm
I agree with Seymour AV for your AT screen. They are located in Ames, IA so you would be keeping business fairly local.
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post #174 of 558
3/6/12 at 3:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

I agree with Seymour AV for your AT screen. They are located in Ames, IA so you would be keeping business fairly local.

I think it is really cool that there are all of these places that are fairly local that have what we need. I will check Seymour AV out :-)
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post #175 of 558
3/6/12 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post


I think it is really cool that there are all of these places that are fairly local that have what we need. I will check Seymour AV out :-)

I lived in Ames for years, how had I never heard of them, rediculous. That's cool.
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post #176 of 558
3/6/12 at 10:45pm
Thread Starter 
Seymour AV ... you can make your own screen by buying the materials from them? Yes Please.
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post #177 of 558
3/6/12 at 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

Seymour AV ... you can make your own screen by buying the materials from them? Yes Please.

Yes, please....
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post #178 of 558
3/7/12 at 4:43am
Choosing the remaining components should depend on what else you want the system to do.......background music?.....on screen information or advertising? I imagine system control is going to be important too. Possibly motorized curtains for the screen?....lighting scenes?....these can all be done with an effective control solution. There's a forum here where the guys are pretty smart when it comes to macro control. I suggested the Onkyo as it has RS232 control. Not sure about the projector but I would suggest one with it as well. You may have to think about an auto masking system for widescreen, CinemaScope, etc. A dedicated PC is probably going to be required if any of the above apply. There's an excellent HTPC forum here where the guys are as good as they come.
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post #179 of 558
3/7/12 at 3:26pm
I cringe at the thought of using an auto eq on a system like this and want to reiterate some of the previous recommendations for getting a member with experience with REW (or better a member of the HAA) to come out and calibrate the system. I'm not sure what your options are going to be because I don't see any manual parametric eq in your chain though. A DCX2496 or two would solve any potential signal level issues and allow for a competent calibrator to fix any glaring acoustic issues.
Just my two cents.
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post #180 of 558
3/7/12 at 3:41pm
Thread Starter 
Okay everyone...here I go again. Before I make my final decision to purchase something, I focus all of my energy on researching that particular product, as opposed to the various contenders in general. Further research on the Behringer EPQ series (or Behringer in general) reveals that no one likes this brand? Is Behringer the red headed step amp of the pro AV world?

I decided to build the rack that will house my amps instead of buying one for $500. I suppose I could apply the difference on "better" amps, if the Crowns I am about to mention are that. What if I did the following substitutes:

Crown XLS-602 (1x1200w@8ohm) instead of Behringer EPQ2000 (1x1400w@8ohm)
Crown XLS-602 (2x600w@4ohm) instead of Behringer EPQ1200 (2x425w@4ohm)
Crown XLS-602 (1x900w@8ohm) instead of Behringer EPQ1200 (1x850w@8ohm)

The Crowns do not have RCA inputs, but then I suppose I could use something like these cables to do the trick?

Update: According to Crown's website, those models are all discontinued. Man I'd hate to go back to the drawing board.

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