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Building a Dinner Theater w/ DIY Speakers, Subs, etc... - Page 7

post #181 of 585
Thread Starter 
-or-

I could go with the XLS2000 and the XLS1000. These amps look very nice and have the ability to set high/lowpass between 50Hz - 3kHz. This means I could high pass the 4pis and lowpass the F20s using just the amps. That sounds pretty cool. Retail price takes my amp budget from $2,244 with the Behringers to $2,995 for these Crowns (assuming I cannot find better pricing), but maybe it is worth the extra $750??? Thoughts?


post #182 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

Okay everyone...here I go again. Before I make my final decision to purchase something, I focus all of my energy on researching that particular product, as opposed to the various contenders in general. Further research on the Behringer EPQ series (or Behringer in general) reveals that no one likes this brand? Is Behringer the red headed step amp of the pro AV world?

I decided to build the rack that will house my amps instead of buying one for $500. I suppose I could apply the difference on "better" amps, if the Crowns I am about to mention are that. What if I did the following substitutes:

Crown XLS-602 (1x1200w@8ohm) instead of Behringer EPQ2000 (1x1400w@8ohm)
Crown XLS-602 (2x600w@4ohm) instead of Behringer EPQ1200 (2x425w@4ohm)
Crown XLS-602 (1x900w@8ohm) instead of Behringer EPQ1200 (1x850w@8ohm)

The Crowns do not have RCA inputs, but then I suppose I could use something like these cables to do the trick?

Update: According to Crown's website, those models are all discontinued. Man I'd hate to go back to the drawing board.

Please don't sweat the Behringer amps for your installation. They'll be just fine in a fixed installation. As far as
post #183 of 585
The crown amps look good. On board filters is nice. RCA inputs good.
post #184 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

The crown amps look good. On board filters is nice. RCA inputs good.

The OP did save some $$$ on the AVR so the Crown amps aren't much of a stretch and the added functionality and remote software might make it worth while.
post #185 of 585
Too bad Dutch, I just sold my crown xls2000 :/ I still have an xls5000 but that would be used basically for sub duty, and it doesnt have the onboard XO processing like the drivecore series has
post #186 of 585
Thread Starter 
So, I was searching for the "amplifiers measured" thread in the amp forum here to see how the aforementioned amps actually measure up in their output. I couldn't find it (if someone knows where it is at and wants to link to it, I would be most appreciative). While over there, I did run across a couple of threads talking about how hot Onkyo receivers get and how they are unreliable and have a high failure rate. I am always careful about reading into negative reviews because the people speaking up are usually more passionate about hating their product that failed than people who love theirs are about speaking up in equal numbers. That is to say you can probably find negative reviews about every product because every product has a failure rate. It would be more helpful to see a neutral 3rd party (consumer reports?) report on statistical failure rates of all AVR brands so that a more informed decision could be made. That said; should I be worried about the performance of my unopened Onkyo TX-NR709?
post #187 of 585
I read the same things too. So I bought an Emotiva UPA-7 to run everything but a zone 2 that my Onkyo NR1007 still ran.

After A/B the speakers with the Onkyo running them all, then the Emotiva....I couldn't find a difference in sound.

Just sold the Emotiva amp.

Using the Onkyo exclusively, no issues, it is only mildly warm.

My A V rack is open....many of these people with overheating issues shove these AVR and amps in an enclosed space with no air flow. Just dont do that.
post #188 of 585
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

I did run across a couple of threads talking about how hot Onkyo receivers get and how they are unreliable and have a high failure rate. I am always careful about reading into negative reviews because the people speaking up are usually more passionate about hating their product that failed than people who love theirs are about speaking up in equal numbers. That is to say you can probably find negative reviews about every product because every product has a failure rate. It would be more helpful to see a neutral 3rd party (consumer reports?) report on statistical failure rates of all AVR brands so that a more informed decision could be made. That said; should I be worried about the performance of my unopened Onkyo TX-NR709?

Now that I think about it, I do have a couple more comments about the possibility of my new Onkyo 709 failing. I may not be an amp/AVR guy; but I am a computer guy and I know that most computers that fail do so because of overheating. The cheaper the components, the less resilient they are to heat and thus they end up having higher failure rates. I would imagine also that, while many of the resistors and capacitors in the Onkyo are not top of the line, 99% of people who purchase them are probably not using the pre-outs and are using the AVR's amps to drive their speakers. Using the preouts, and driving my speakers with separate pro-amps will probably allow the AVR itself to run quite cool with its amps unused; thereby drastically reducing the likelihood of failure to a negligible consideration.

Thoughts? Does anyone disagree with my assessment?
post #189 of 585
The digital chips pump out a lot of heat too. Make sure you have good air flow around the onkyo and be sure it's not baking in heat from other equipment. Some fan forced cooling might be a good idea.

Since you are a commercial venue, having a backup plan might be a good idea. Identify which components are mission critical and have a work-around in case of failure.

Projector (spare lamp)
Processor (maybe a used preamp that could be patched in in a pinch)
Amplifiers (have a plan ahead of time to reassign channels if an amp fails, or a spare amp in the rack)
Bluray player (spare on hand)
What else is a show stopper?

You should also do a lot of burn in before you have paying guests in the house. The painters would love some heavy metal blasting from your system while they're doing their finishing touches.
post #190 of 585
Thread Starter 
As not only a cost saving measure, but also as a customizing issue; I decided to build my own rack for the amps, AVR, Blu-ray, etc. Guitar Center sells the rails, so I purchased some. I will probably start on the rack after the second F20 is finished (almost done with it) and before starting on the third F20.

I think I'm going to order the Crown XLS as today as well.
post #191 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post


Now that I think about it, I do have a couple more comments about the possibility of my new Onkyo 709 failing. I may not be an amp/AVR guy; but I am a computer guy and I know that most computers that fail do so because of overheating. The cheaper the components, the less resilient they are to heat and thus they end up having higher failure rates. I would imagine also that, while many of the resistors and capacitors in the Onkyo are not top of the line, 99% of people who purchase them are probably not using the pre-outs and are using the AVR's amps to drive their speakers. Using the preouts, and driving my speakers with separate pro-amps will probably allow the AVR itself to run quite cool with its amps unused; thereby drastically reducing the likelihood of failure to a negligible consideration.

Thoughts? Does anyone disagree with my assessment?

I'm in the same boat as you with a computer background and would concur with your assessment. Heat is a killer of electronics and in an AVR it would only make sense that the biggest generator of heat is the internal amp (or power supply which increases in heat with more electrical flow). By not using the internal amp it would make sense that heat within the AVR would be reduced significantly.
post #192 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

The digital chips pump out a lot of heat too. Make sure you have good air flow around the onkyo and be sure it's not baking in heat from other equipment. Some fan forced cooling might be a good idea.

Since you are a commercial venue, having a backup plan might be a good idea. Identify which components are mission critical and have a work-around in case of failure.

Projector (spare lamp)
Processor (maybe a used preamp that could be patched in in a pinch)
Amplifiers (have a plan ahead of time to reassign channels if an amp fails, or a spare amp in the rack)
Bluray player (spare on hand)
What else is a show stopper?

You should also do a lot of burn in before you have paying guests in the house. The painters would love some heavy metal blasting from your system while they're doing their finishing touches.

Petew these are great points to have backup hardware. As far as a backup amp is concerned could he use the amp in the AVR as the contingency? Active cooling seems like a good idea. Of course that means more money and it may be audible.
post #193 of 585
I am so in love with this idea!!! I am in the Detroit, MI area but I sincerely hope my work travel will have me in your area when this project is completed!
post #194 of 585
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg121986 View Post

I am so in love with this idea!!! I am in the Detroit, MI area but I sincerely hope my work travel will have me in your area when this project is completed!

Well, it's less than a 10 minute detour off Interstate 80 ... About 30 minutes east of the I-80/I-35 junction (America's crossroads).

post #195 of 585
Thread Starter 
In thinking about the design for my rackmount case, I am thinking about just installing an ultra-quiet 100CFM bathroom fan in the top of the case (vented straight up). That would definitely keep it cool without making any noise lol.
post #196 of 585
Thread Starter 
I just ordered five Crown XLS 1000s and three XLS 2000s, as well as the final three 390HFs.
post #197 of 585
Thread Starter 
I believe this will be my final draft for our winery's dinner theater. The Crowns are on order, and I have all of these enclosures built with the exception of two of the F20s. I will post a picture of all of the speakers and subs together once they are all finished. Any thoughts on how I have everything configured below? Am I forgetting anything?

post #198 of 585
Looks very nice!

JSS
post #199 of 585
Thread Starter 
Do I have this correct?

Here is a closer look at wiring the the Left Surrounds and the Right Surrounds in parallel and serial.


Here is a closer look at wiring the Rear Right Surrounds and the Rear Left Surrounds in parallel.
post #200 of 585
Looks correct.
post #201 of 585
Wow, what a thread. Wish i lived nearby. I just skimmed over the pics, I'll dig deeper later, but this is great ! There will be some smiles in there watchin flix for sure !

Thanx for sharing its progress with us....
post #202 of 585
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Wow, what a thread. Wish i lived nearby. I just skimmed over the pics, I'll dig deeper later, but this is great ! There will be some smiles in there watchin flix for sure !

Thanx for sharing its progress with us....

Thanks for the nice words. You know...I once drove from Des Moines to NY with my wife for a vacation. You just take I-80 the whole way

P.S. Just two tips: (1) It seems like the interstate through most of Illinois is always under construction, and (2) Ohio is a much wider state than what it looks like on the map. Haha.
post #203 of 585
Dutch,

Don't know if you got the info you were looking for concerning the measuring amps thread. It's a sticky at the top of the DIY area. Here's the linky.


dbl
post #204 of 585
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbldare View Post

Dutch,

Don't know if you got the info you were looking for concerning the measuring amps thread. It's a sticky at the top of the DIY area. Here's the linky.


dbl

I guess I had run across that thread....I just thought it would be longer. My amps are not on the list. I also need to figure out how many amps they draw at capacity so I can wire sufficient 20A circuits for them.
post #205 of 585
Thread Starter 
I have updated the build thread on page 1 for anyone who is interested. I changed the exterior pictures, as well as added pictures of the 2nd F20's internal bracing.
post #206 of 585
Wow, that is a ton of high-quality work man! Nice job!
post #207 of 585
Post #1....very nice.

JSS
post #208 of 585
Thread Starter 
F20 #2 is nearly complete. I love my seamless flanges for the access panel . I just need to put some t-nuts in for the access panel (I use head cap screws to fasten the access panel on), a little sanding; and I will be ready to start #3.

post #209 of 585
what part of IA are you in? I find myself there quite often- This week actually!
post #210 of 585
Thread Starter 
It is about 30 minutes east of Des Moines.
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