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Building a Dinner Theater w/ DIY Speakers, Subs, etc... - Page 11

post #301 of 585
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by datranz View Post

once done, pickup a fog machine and some lazers and you got yourself and night club. that would bring in a lot of traffic, not sure if thats going to be your target audience though.

I did run 300 feet of in-wall DMX cable, for a total of 10 locations for lighting effects. ;-) The idea is for the space to be versitile enough to be used for any purpose we want. My target audience is anyone who wants to spend money at the winery. If that means having a "night club" night once a week...so be it (I must say, club type music really blooms with those F20s).
post #302 of 585
Thread Starter 
With 15 speakers and 3 subs completed, I have only one more F20 to go before the speaker project is finished. This was more involved than I originally planned, though the cost savings still made it worth it. I will be throwing the last of my sawdust this afternoon. Then the fun part of installation and callibration can begin
:-)



The last four 1pi speakers were finished earlier in the week. That makes 12 that are ready to go.
post #303 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

What do you mean?

I mean it might give you goose bumps at a minimum, perhaps a need to change your pants. All meant in a good way.
post #304 of 585
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I mean it might give you goose bumps at a minimum, perhaps a need to change your pants. All meant in a good way.

Oh. :-)

I thought you ment something bad was going to happen like I chose the wrong AVR or amps or something.
post #305 of 585
Thread Starter 
Here is an image (sorry about the quality) that shows everything that I have done so far. You are looking at 15 speakers and 3 subs. Still working on the last sub. I hope to be able to move everything to the winery in about 4-6 weeks. We are having three open houses prior to our grand opening so that people can see the final phases of construction. The first one was May 19, the next one is the 4th of July, and the final one is on Labor Day weekend. I hope to have at least the mains and subs installed in the baffle wall by the 4th of July in order to do some preliminary testing (more like playing around since the acoustical treatments will not be installed by then) and demo them a little. We started putting out advertisements stating that we are opening "Fall 2012". Technically that gives me until December 20 to finish haha ;-)



And then there were 12 :-)
post #306 of 585
Wow.

JSS
post #307 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post


It is hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like you have something blocking the rear of the ports in those speakers. Is that an illusion from the photo, or it there something in there? You'll want to make sure the ports are clear before you start measurements.
post #308 of 585
Thread Starter 
@Beerparty: That is R13 insulation, and is supposed to be there. ;-)
post #309 of 585
I think beer party was still drinking when he posted.
post #310 of 585
Thread Starter 
Updates will be coming in about a week or so. My weekend energies have been recenrly focused on wiring the electricity for the entire winery.
post #311 of 585
Thread Starter 
1 Weeks...3 Weeks (TomAto...TomOto) ;-)

For those of you still with us, I offer my apologies on being slow to post updates. We have been working very hard to get the winery ready for its electrical inspection, and then we can finish spray foaming and have the sheet-rockers do their thing. It feels like we are getting close, but we are going to have to really work hard to open by Labor Day. OFFICIALLY we have advertised we will open "Fall of 2012", so technically I guess I have until December 19 to finish haha.

Since there isn't any electrical that will go behind the baffle wall, I asked them to spray foam the portion of the wall where the baffle wall will be built while they were spraying the rafters. They didn't go wide enough, but I am sure they can get into the extra foot on each side that they missed after the wall is built. This is open cell cell polyurethane spray foam. All of my research says that 6 inches of open cell spray foam is not a sufficient vapor barrier for the rafters, but the installer says that it is. I don't know if the technology changed, or if he is just full of crap, but I guess this is the wrong forum for those questions lol. Most of the spray foam in the rafters is closer to 8 inches thick.

In any case, I hope to be building the baffle wall a week from tomorrow so that I can demo the 4pis and the F20s during our "Construction Open House" on July 4. I still have that last F20 to build. The wood is cut, I just have to put it together...probably on Sunday.

337

337
post #312 of 585
looking forward to seeing that baffle wall....

JSS
post #313 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

1 Weeks...3 Weeks (TomAto...TomOto) ;-)
For those of you still with us, I offer my apologies on being slow to post updates. We have been working very hard to get the winery ready for its electrical inspection, and then we can finish spray foaming and have the sheet-rockers do their thing. It feels like we are getting close, but we are going to have to really work hard to open by Labor Day. OFFICIALLY we have advertised we will open "Fall of 2012", so technically I guess I have until December 19 to finish haha.
Since there isn't any electrical that will go behind the baffle wall, I asked them to spray foam the portion of the wall where the baffle wall will be built while they were spraying the rafters. They didn't go wide enough, but I am sure they can get into the extra foot on each side that they missed after the wall is built. This is open cell cell polyurethane spray foam. All of my research says that 6 inches of open cell spray foam is not a sufficient vapor barrier for the rafters, but the installer says that it is. I don't know if the technology changed, or if he is just full of crap, but I guess this is the wrong forum for those questions lol. Most of the spray foam in the rafters is closer to 8 inches thick.
In any case, I hope to be building the baffle wall a week from tomorrow so that I can demo the 4pis and the F20s during our "Construction Open House" on July 4. I still have that last F20 to build. The wood is cut, I just have to put it together...probably on Sunday.
337
337
I was just reading that using open cell foam under your roof sheathing is a bad idea because the open cell can soak up water and rot the sheathing from the underside. It said only to use closed cell foam there. Having said that, using iso-foam is still a relatively new industry and there is a whole lot of debate on what foam to use and where you can and cannot use it.
post #314 of 585
Thread Starter 
@flying fool: I have read on it fairly extensively and almost everyone says that closed cell is a vapor barrier and that open cell is not. They all say that open cell is a better sound retarder than closed cell (which should seal our building up pretty tight acoustically). I HAVE read that you CAN use open cell in the rafters, but that you must follow it up with a special type of paint to provide the vapor barrier qualities that one needs in a non-ventilated application. If it does not work as the installer says, we can always cut holes in the roof and install ventilation. I just paid $30k for new shingles, so I am not too worried about leakage in general.
post #315 of 585
You can use open cel or closed cel. Open cel is cheaper and if there is a leak, you know it because the water seeps through.

Closed cel has better R-value. If there is a leak, you won't know it. Water will sit on top of the foam and rot the sheathing.

Most plain old latex paints are vapor barriers. You don't need ventilation when you have foam in direct contact with the underside of the sheathing.

Depending on geographical location, you may not even need a vapor barrier.

Tim
post #316 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

I was just reading that using open cell foam under your roof sheathing is a bad idea because the open cell can soak up water and rot the sheathing from the underside. .
The cause of the rot is condensation that takes place in cold weather, when moist air from inside the house meets the cold sheathing. There are a number of ways to prevent this, from vapor barriers to using an inch thick layer of urethane or polystyrene sheet foam directly under the sheathing. This is mainly a concern with the roof, but the same caution applies to walls. There are a number of sites that show how to correctly insulate. With foamed in place closed cell foam there's no concern.
post #317 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

You can use open cel or closed cel. Open cel is cheaper and if there is a leak, you know it because the water seeps through.
Closed cel has better R-value. If there is a leak, you won't know it. Water will sit on top of the foam and rot the sheathing.
Most plain old latex paints are vapor barriers. You don't need ventilation when you have foam in direct contact with the underside of the sheathing.
Depending on geographical location, you may not even need a vapor barrier.
Tim
Flat latex paints are not a vapor barrier. If you go with at least a semi gloss or gloss then you get the cross linking that provides the vapor barrier. According to this article closed cell foam is the one that meets all of the criteria for use underneath roof sheathing. Again, there is still a lot of debate over what is best.

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/green-building-blog/closed-cell-foam-beats-open-cell-foam
post #318 of 585
Closed cel is a great solution- integral vapor barrier and higher R-value per inch. Great until you have to pay for it.

While you are absolutely correct that closed cel is the only foam that meets the requirements, the statement is misleading. It is the only foam that meets the code as a stand-alone product. Open cel also meets the requirements but requires a vapor barrier to be installed over the foam (a la latex paint). Cost is usually the determining factor, although having mechanical equipment space exposed to the foam can also sway the decision.

The International Residential Code clearly describes 3 scenarios for unvented attic assemblies: 1) closed cel, 2) open cel + vapor barrier 3) rigid directly on top of sheathing.

That being said, if you are in Climate Zones 1-4 you don't need a vapor retarder. Ref 2012 IRC 601.3

Tim
post #319 of 585
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the spray foam info gentlemen. I aim to get the conversation back on track now. Below are a couple of images of the baffle wall's construction. The wall's foundation, which houses the four F20 subs, is 169" wide and is 63" tall. I built two subs with the access panel on the left and the other two on the right. This allowed me to create a permanent installation while giving me the flexibility to change out the drivers, should they ever fail or need replacement for any reason.

The subs are screwed to a 3/4" platform of OSB in order to raise them to the level of the finished hardwood floor that will be installed at a later date. They are also glued/screwed to the 2x6 supports for the baffle wall (or perhaps it might be more accurate to state that the baffle wall supports are screwed to them). I had originally planned to keep them "floating" under the baffle wall, but it ended up being much easier to do it this way. Time will tell if I made the right choice.

The left and right mains are angled inward at 9 degrees with a focal point that is a distance of 2/3 the length of the room away from the baffle wall. The platform on which they rest is 3/4" OSB, and with their final resting place determined; I screwed them down to this platform from underneath ensuring they will not move. From here, I will proceed building the baffle wall around them. The plan is to frame around the 4pis, leaving them to protrude 3/4" past the finished wall so that they will be flush with the acoustical treatments that will be applied. The final size of the screen will be a maximum of 169" wide x 95" tall (194" measured diagonally).

P.S. Don't worry about the safety of my 4pis with consideration to the fact the interior is still under construction. 1/2" OSB will cover the front of the baffle wall until the space is finished, and will then be replaced by the AT screen. :-)

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393
post #320 of 585
Thread Starter 
Here are the latest pictures of the baffle wall. The OSB will be covered with 1" black duct liner.

486200_3365521217774_2071171563_n.jpg

425144_3365525097871_1007937077_n.jpg

306600_3365527217924_954808411_n.jpg

293814_3365526457905_488046567_n.jpg
post #321 of 585
Looking great!
post #322 of 585
Thread Starter 
I just purchased 50' of Linacoustic RC duct liner for the baffle wall from the following website: http://www.fabricmatestore.com/p-154-linacoustic-fiberglass-insulation-1.aspx


I have to say...it is not easy to find.
post #323 of 585
Thread Starter 
292444_410944722274414_1155630623_n.jpg
post #324 of 585
Have you had a chance to test anything? Obviously you are no where near finished, but I'd totally have them hooked up playing some jams while I was hanging sheet rock and what not...
post #325 of 585
Thread Starter 
Oh of course! It's the best sound I have ever heard. Can't even turn the bass beyond 65% of its capability before people start to complain (pansies).
post #326 of 585
That is good to hear. Glad the F20s deliver.

JSS
post #327 of 585
Thread Starter 
As we wrap up the wiring (electrical, video surveillance, speaker wire, security system, etc) I find myself faced with the question of the best way to connect the AVR to the theater projector (~50') and the HDTV or the rear wall of the bar in the wine tasting room (~80-100').

I saw some dialogue on this in a different part of the forum, but it seemed two years old. I thought to use Cat6, but are some people having issues with this? Long HDMI cables are thick, hard to bend, and need amplifiers at that distance, no?

Time to get educated on AV distribution. :-)
post #328 of 585
cat 6 can have issues. I have had better luck with long hdmi cords and amplifiers. That being said, what's stopping you from having the source for the video close to the avr or using a IR emitter?
post #329 of 585
Thread Starter 
You can read through this thread and find the blueprints to see why the AVR cannot be next to the projector.
post #330 of 585
I think you should probably be ok with a long HDMI run and probably won't need an amp at the 50' distance, but the longer run will need one. Are you trying to avoid using HDMI amps? Sorry if you mentioned you didn't want to use one (two). For your set-up, you probably want to "do it right" being it's a business. You don't want ANY problems.

Here's an article regarding it from Blue Jean. Not sure it's relavent anymore, but worth a glance.


good luck,
dbl
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