or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Building a Dinner Theater w/ DIY Speakers, Subs, etc...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Building a Dinner Theater w/ DIY Speakers, Subs, etc... - Page 15

post #421 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

@cabra...their latest batch came out at 100". But you are correct, it is normally 98". Yay for me!

So do you get any tilt (15-20deg) on the material at the full height of 100"?
post #422 of 585
Thread Starter 
No tilt, but Chris Seymour assured me that moire would not be an issue in spite of no tilt.
Edited by dutchswan0311 - 12/6/12 at 5:36am
post #423 of 585
Thread Starter 
@Popa...

People will buy tickets in advance. We will probably start out with monthly "Dinner & a Movie" events in order to see how popular they are, and then increase their frequency as popularity grows. I would imagine tickets will be in the $25 range, as a catered meal would be served during the movie. Since no one will want to be seated with their back to the screen, our capacity will be decreased for such events. I estimate we can seat about 70 under that paradigm. This also means movie viewing with constant ambient light, which is why I am looking for a good projector that leaves around 25fL of light on the screen in our environment.
post #424 of 585
I'm not edumucated about projectors and screens, but if there's going to be ambient light, isn't a screen with <=1.0 gain preferred?
post #425 of 585
Thread Starter 
I built and installed the screen's border today...and it actually took the whole day. I used 1x6 pine sourced from the local lumber yard. Luckily, they carried 16 footers, so I didn't have to splice the horizontal borders. I wrapped triple black velvet around each 1x6 after cutting them to size and laying them out to ensure a good fit. I then installed each side of the border individually, nailing them to the frame of the baffle wall with a Paslode finishing nailer. The finishing nailes fire in just below the surface of the 1x6, so you cannot see them behind the velvet. I just hope I never need to access the speakers behind the screen, because my overall install is semi-permanent. The final size of the screen is 182" @ 16:9.

Just need to finally pick a projector and order it!

47357_3949443815474_1957509252_n.jpg
post #426 of 585
Thread Starter 
@ bomber: I don't know...but it ain't changing now lol.
post #427 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

@ bomber: I don't know...but it ain't changing now lol.

Haha! I hear ya. Man, I do want to come up and check this place out. Maybe my wife and I can swing it some time.
post #428 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

@Popa...
People will buy tickets in advance. We will probably start out with monthly "Dinner & a Movie" events in order to see how popular they are, and then increase their frequency as popularity grows. I would imagine tickets will be in the $25 range, as a catered meal would be served during the movie. Since no one will want to be seated with their back to the screen, our capacity will be decreased for such events. I estimate we can seat about 70 under that paradigm. This also means movie viewing with constant ambient light, which is why I am looking for a good projector that leaves around 25fL of light on the screen in our environment.

I hate to tell you, but I don't know of a projector on the planet that is going to light that large of a screen from that distance, and look even remotely good doing it. You have everything working against you.

1) Extreme throw distance
2) Very low gain screen (1.0)
3) Very large screen
4) Ambient light

Keep in mind that you also have lamp aging to deal with. Toss on a few hundred hours and you're probably down by at least 10-15% lumens best case scenario, and 40-50% worst case scenario depending on projector.
post #429 of 585
i'm sure you are all over it, but getting the ambient light control as good as possible will really improve both contrast as well as perceived brightness.
Edited by LTD02 - 12/7/12 at 2:26am
post #430 of 585
Thread Starter 
***PSA***

I have been trying to determine the best time to have a "GTG", and have decided to incorporate it into our winery's "by invitation only" New Years Eve bash. Officially, this party is from 8pm to Midnight. I don't want to exclude anyone who has made a contribution to our dinner theater becoming what it is, so if you feel you are one of those individuals who has been of help in one way or another, please RSVP via private message. If you are a forum stalker who has never contrubuted to the thread, please refrain from sending the aforementioned RSVP (apologies). Many of you have really steered me in the right direction on several things, and I hope to hear from you. If you do RSVP, please include your full name and mailing address. While the party is from 8pm to Midnight, I think maybe it should unofficially start earlier in the day for my forum friends, as I think we may want to play with the system a bit before everyone else arrives ;-)

Cheers!
post #431 of 585
Awesome dutch!

Congrats on setting a GTG date. I wonder, would it be an insult to bring a bottle of wine to a winery as a "house warming" gift? smile.gif
post #432 of 585
Thread Starter 
Popa....as long as it's good wine :-)

I know I might be implicated as being biased, but our wine is quite excellent. It would have a lot to live uo to...this housewarming gift lol.
post #433 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

@bass addict: The projector central calculator disagrees with you ;-)

You're right; I'd definitely go with a site that merely takes the mfg information off their website and models it over someone who has experience with different projectors at different throw ratios on lower gain screens.

Why don't you put in a JVC RS60 off that site and tell me what you come up with, then go ask someone who has actually used one. I think you'll find the numbers are slightly different to say the least. wink.gif

But go ahead and grab one using that info, and when you are replacing bulbs every couple hundred hours as the picture is barely viewable, you'll see why.
post #434 of 585
Coderguy has a Projector Calculator that I believe is based off his measurements. I used the BenQ W6000 with a 1.2 gain 182" screen with a 28' throw distance. It has the Dynamic Mode (Lamp High) showing as 13.1 fL with it being 10 fL after 500 hours. The Projector Central calculator indicates 13 fL as the image brightness with the same settings. Both of my projectors have been similar to what was predicted by the Projector Central calculator.

bassaddict, you need to go to church more often! biggrin.gif Our church had a BenQ for a while (not sure what model) with a throw distance of probably 40 ft and it lit up a similar sized screen just fine with ambient light in the sanctuary. I think it was around a 5000 lumens projector.

Dutchswan, I looked at the BenQ SH960 and it looks like it would work great for your application. It has great adjustability and I like the dual bulbs since the projector will still work if a bulb burns out during a presentation. If the projector is too bright in Standard mode, it does have Eco mode that will be dimmer. Also, calibration will usually reduce the brightness. Projector People have a guide to picking projectors for churches. It recommends 5000 lumen projectors for crowds of 100-150. Projector People have the SH960 and they will give you a better price if you call.
post #435 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

.
bassaddict, you need to go to church more often! biggrin.gif Our church had a BenQ for a while (not sure what model) with a throw distance of probably 40 ft and it lit up a similar sized screen just fine with ambient light in the sanctuary. I think it was around a 5000 lumens projector.
Dutchswan, I looked at the BenQ SH960 and it looks like it would work great for your application. It has great adjustability and I like the dual bulbs since the projector will still work if a bulb burns out during a presentation. If the projector is too bright in Standard mode, it does have Eco mode that will be dimmer. Also, calibration will usually reduce the brightness.

LOL. I do, and we do have a projector. I guess I assume that one is looking for a reasonably decent picture. I am unaware of a projector that provides what he is trying to accomplish, with more than a couple hundred hours on it.

I guess time will tell. smile.gif
post #436 of 585
here is an excellent description: http://htrgroup.com/main.php?section=brightness

the screen is about 96 sq ft (so 100 for back of the envelope calculations).

the goal is around 16 foot lamberts. if the screen has 1.0 gain, then he needs a projector with >1600 lumens output.

1600 lumens * 1.0 gain / 100 square feet = 16 foot lamberts.

the bulb will dim and manufactures' specs might be optimistic, so having a margin of error would be a good idea.

something with 3000 lumens should cut the mustard, but the less light control, the higher the lumens required in order to prevent losing contrast/getting washout.
post #437 of 585
How is the space lighted? If you can focus a pool of light on each table your guests will have enough light to see their food dishes. Key is keeping the light off the screen
post #438 of 585
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

How is the space lighted? If you can focus a pool of light on each table your guests will have enough light to see their food dishes. Key is keeping the light off the screen

We may have to consider tables with candles on them. I have frequented the Funny Bone Comedy Club in which all of the lights are off except or those that are on the comedian. They serve full meals during shows with nothing more than a small candle on their small tables. I suppose that might work?
post #439 of 585
Thread Starter 
Today I cut five panels of birch plywood in order to finish the baffle wall beneath the movie screen. I then gave them two coats of red mahogany stain, and the first of two coats of urethane. when it is all said and done, you will not see the F20 subs...only their four mouths. Oh and do I ever intend to feed them lol.

I made two of these to be installed over each of the two pairs of F20 subs.


These three panels will go in the middle and the sides of the bafflewall on either side of the pairs of subs.
post #440 of 585
"We may have to consider tables with candles on them."

funny that you should mention that, as that is one option that i was thinking about. red globes would be best.

another option could be very low level lamps ideally with red bulbs that would be just enough to light the table so folks don't spill their drinks, but not enough to light the room or cause a distraction.

very low level rope lighting can be used to light the floor for folks who have to take a potty break.

in place of asking everybody to be quiet because the movie is about to start, just place the original thx "the audience is listening" at full reference through your system. :-)

the only disadvantage that i see in your setup is the seating. free wheeling theater seats aren't cheap and butts/backs get sore after a couple hours. a "get up and walk around" in between dinner and the movie might be a good idea...

just a few random ideas to take or leave.
Edited by LTD02 - 12/7/12 at 10:07pm
post #441 of 585
Candles, in conjunction with a movie screen going, should give enough light to eat your dinner, but are there any fire codes or insurance rules to abide by?
Bathroom lighting may be dictated by local codes, so rope lighting may not be enough near bathrooms and exits? No idea...
Now, dim rope lighting along the perimeter of the floor in the main room and adjacent rooms should be plenty good for navigating around there.

@Dutch. What kind of room treatments (sound deadeners, etc...) are being used in your main room?
post #442 of 585
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Candles, in conjunction with a movie screen going, should give enough light to eat your dinner, but are there any fire codes or insurance rules to abide by?
Bathroom lighting may be dictated by local codes, so rope lighting may not be enough near bathrooms and exits? No idea...
Now, dim rope lighting along the perimeter of the floor in the main room and adjacent rooms should be plenty good for navigating around there.
@Dutch. What kind of room treatments (sound deadeners, etc...) are being used in your main room?

There are two sections to the main level; the East side that contains the two public restrooms, the gift shop, the tasting room/bar, and the kitchen. The West side contains the main foyer, the ballroom, the balcony, the bistro (under the balcony), and the stage. I would anticipate the East side maintaining normal lighting levels while the west side has the lights turned down.

As far as acoustical treatments, I have not decided yet. The ceiling is clearly setup by having the rafters open to the room, and nearly 8" of open cell spray foam exposed (albeit painted black with a fire retardant paint to meet local fire codes). The three french doors and three windows on the south wall (the 45' wall) will have heavy drapes well suited to sound dampening. The north side has only the three large windows in the stage to contend with, which will also have heavy drapes. The East wall contains a french door that leads from the bistro (under the balcony) to the tasting room/bar. I am not certain what kind of treatment this door will receiving.

To be frank though, the overall room already feels fairly well controlled, and we don't even have the drapes up yet. I think the combination of the open rafters, the balcony breaking up the rear of the room a bit, and the fact that the Pi Speakers are fairly directional has lead to not a whole lot of reflection off the North and South windows/doors. I am pretty sure we will not have any further acoustic treatments installed before our New Years Eve party, so anyone from AVS that accepts our invitation will be able to offer their in-person thoughts on this topic more effectively. :-)
post #443 of 585
Thread Starter 
I have all but decided to get the BenQ SH960. At this point it is all about sourcing the projector at a good price, and from a reputable dealer that can have it to me by December 21. Several websites I have purchased from in the past have it at $5,000, but there are also several unknown to me that have it in the $3,400 - $4,000 range. A couple of them have 400+ reviews, but it seems many reviewers comment on about how it is a hassle to get it shipped and have it arrive. Everyone seems to get their item, but some claim it can take anywhere from 2-6 weeks to arrive. Then there is always the question as to whether or not the manufacturer's warranty is valid if you do not buy it from an authorized dealer. In the end, I think I need to have this thing ordered by Monday at the latest.
post #444 of 585
Thread Starter 
Does anyone see the urethane on the birch under the screen being an issue with regard to light reflection?

16190_3956735237755_205284911_n.jpg
post #445 of 585
Not sure if I'm allowed to reply not being in your circle of friends biggrin.gif. I had a similar setup with forward facing wood stain and it did cause some nasty reflections. The good news is it shouldn't affect contrast any.
post #446 of 585
Hey Dutchswan,

I just wanted to take a moment to comment on your project, I originally came across your thread when I built my F20 last year and have been lurking ever since! Any way I think your whole setup is awesome and cant wait to see it completed. I know some others have mentioned it but I think a candle in the center of each table would be sufficient lighting to eat while watching a movie. Keep up the good work!
post #447 of 585
Thread Starter 
Thanks cheez. :-)

I checked out your build thread...looking good! Makes me wish our space was a dedicated theater. Cest la vie.
Edited by dutchswan0311 - 12/9/12 at 6:45am
post #448 of 585
Thread Starter 
Meh...I changed my mind. Any fan of this thread is invited to New Year's Eve. There are learners (like me), and contributors (like many of you). Why should contributors have all the fun?? I still need an RSVP though ;-)
post #449 of 585
Thread Starter 
Well...I pulled the trigger on the BenQ SH960. It will ship tomorrow and hopefully arrive by Thursday.
post #450 of 585
jon ill confirm where its shipping from in the am and get you a tracking number. for the money spent i dont think there is a better choice for you. while i think all of us would agree in thinking that you could use as many fL as possible but theres only so much you can do with your budget....its a good starting point...on video to a very cool project.
good luck to you
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Building a Dinner Theater w/ DIY Speakers, Subs, etc...