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Building a Dinner Theater w/ DIY Speakers, Subs, etc... - Page 17

post #481 of 585
I thought I had read somewhere here that these HDMI over Ethernet devices were very sensitive to differences in lengths in the two cables. As such it was recommended to run premade cables of the exact same length.
post #482 of 585
Dutch, get a redmere cable from monoprice.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025501&p_id=9173&seq=1&format=2

I recently bought the 30ft version and it works way better then the extenders.
post #483 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

Dutch, get a redmere cable from monoprice.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025501&p_id=9173&seq=1&format=2
I recently bought the 30ft version and it works way better then the extenders.

yep 60 footer for less than $80. i know you said the area is finished now but...........
post #484 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

Try a lower resolution, like 1080i, 720p, or 480p. If the problem is still there at all these resolutions then there is a problem with the cable or cat6 extender.


 Did you try this?

post #485 of 585
Thread Starter 
Mrkazador...I tried it, but it seems like the projector auto detects the incoming signal. I tried to lower th resolution, but did not see an option to do so. At any rate, I purchased a different extender from monoprice that is being overnighted and will arrive tomorrow. It says it is good up to 200ft and it came highly recommended by another forum member. Hopefully it will fix the issue.
post #486 of 585
I am just now seeing this thread.

Something that needs to be pointed out now is that the original poster needs to re-think his business model. From an earlier post, it sounded as if he was planning to sell $25 tickets that include both the admission to the screening and a dinner. That is probably a bad idea--film distributors will take a percentage of the ticket price (usually versus a minimum guarantee), which means that he will be paying a small fortune for screening rights and giving up food revenue. This is why you never see movie tickets sold with popcorn included--the theatre wants to keep all of the concession revenue and only share the film admission with the distributor. Typical terms on a later-run movie that _might_ be available on Blu-Ray would be something ike $300 vs. 35%; this means that you guarantee $300 to the distributor, or you pay 35% of the ticket _gross_, whichever is higher. This is why a single-price movie/dinner combination won't work.

From an operational point of view: as a commercial theatre (if this is what the original poster wants to be), you need 35mm or D-cinema. Not Blu-Ray. Some late-run titles _might_ be available on Blu-Ray, but most titles will not be available until their Blu-Ray release date. Perhaps the original poster is fine with this, but it is something to note. Also Blu-Ray is not really an exhibition format--it is not reliable enough for commercial screenings, and it is often dumbed-down for home use (sound is often not the same as the theatrical mix, for example).

From a technical point of view, there are a bunch of issues here, as well as some bad advice in this thread:

- throw distance has _nothing_ to do with screen luminance; it is all about image size, lens speed (which may not be the same for all focal lengths), screen size, and screen gain

- 5K lumens is fine for this size screen

- why a 16x9 screen? almost zero feature films exist in this aspect ratio; most current releases will be either 1.85:1 or 2.39:1; the screen should be in one of these formats, with a masking system to create the other (as well as 1.37:1 and 1.66:1, for older films and European films, as needed).

- the projector choice was poor--it's clearly a unit designed for home use (no interchangeable lenses, no douser/shutter, single-chip DLP, no HD-SDI input, etc.); a professional 3-chip DLP unit (preferably one of the new S2K D-cinema units, at about $30k) would have been a much better choice and would be more flexible and reliable

- the sound processor should be a Dolby CP650/CP750, Ultra-Stereo JSD-80/100, or some similar unit designed for professional use that will be reliable and serviceable for many years; home-type equpiment has no place in commercial theatres

- there should be a video monitor and sound monitor in the rack for previewing and troubleshooting

- amps usually go in the bottom of a sound rack for stability reasons--you don't want that rack to tip over and kill someone; just make sure that it's not top-heavy

- no comment on the speakers, but I get the impression that the original poster was planning to use the same system for both movie sound and for other events--this is a bad idea (unless "other events" just means low-volume background music); he'll understand why as soon as someone blows a center-channel horn diaphragm by doing something stupid

- I question the wisdom of having the video projector under the balcony--it will produce noise and heat, both of which should be kept away from your patrons; also, it will need to be serviced (or have the lamp(s) replaced at some point, and you probably do not want to drag out a ladder to do this in view of the customers

I realize that it may be too late to change some of these things, and I do not want to burst anyone's bubble; I did think that it was a good idea to post some realistic advice here, since it is obvious that few people in this thread have experience with commercial cinema exhibition, which is a significantly different beast than home screening rooms.
post #487 of 585
A couple more thoughts;

- you will want/need an automation system to control house lights, fader settings, format changes, etc., unless you want to pay a projectionist to babysit the equipment at every screening (though I'm not sure how you would automate Blu-Ray)

- in the pictures, the screen looks to be an uncomfortable distance off of the floor; you will have to check the sightlines from every seating position (while seated, not while standing) and confirm...that one is a judgment call

- curtains for the screen (regular curtains, in addition to masking curtains) would look nice and protect the screen from damange when non-movie events take place

- if you are stuck mounting the video projector under the balcony (instead of in a projection booth), at least consider enclosing it in a soundproof and ventilated box to keep it from annoying your patrons

- if you are stuck with consumer-grade equipment (video projector, Blu-Ray player, processor), then at least have a backup for everything to ensure that you never have to give out passes or refunds to customers due to equipment malfunction; trust me, there is nothing worse than that
post #488 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by bippy View Post

. . . I do not want to burst anyone's bubble
They are serving wine, not champagne. Shouldn't be an issue. This is also in Sully, IA. It will be the best theater most patrons have ever attended. The 16:9 screen is for football! cool.gif
post #489 of 585
Is there any update to the New Years Eve kickoff? How did everything go?
post #490 of 585
Thread Starter 
hummmmm...I have clearly been away from my thread too long. I didn't get any email notifications that there were pending replies here.

To start...the New Years Eve party was subdued but nice. I am still finishing up the flooring on the rear of the balcony and on the stage. I am still designing the stage lighting, but have a decent idea how it will be finalized.

I ended up using these Cat6 extenders, and they work perfectly without issue: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=6532&seq=1&format=2&ref=cj

I will address "bippy's" comments in a moment. Don't worry...I'll try to be polite ;-)
post #491 of 585
Thread Starter 
Dear Bippy....my response to your post is in blue/red below:

Something that needs to be pointed out now is that the original poster needs to re-think his business model. From an earlier post, it sounded as if he was planning to sell $25 tickets that include both the admission to the screening and a dinner. That is probably a bad idea--film distributors will take a percentage of the ticket price (usually versus a minimum guarantee), which means that he will be paying a small fortune for screening rights and giving up food revenue. This is why you never see movie tickets sold with popcorn included--the theatre wants to keep all of the concession revenue and only share the film admission with the distributor. Typical terms on a later-run movie that _might_ be available on Blu-Ray would be something ike $300 vs. 35%; this means that you guarantee $300 to the distributor, or you pay 35% of the ticket _gross_, whichever is higher. This is why a single-price movie/dinner combination won't work. From an operational point of view: as a commercial theatre (if this is what the original poster wants to be), you need 35mm or D-cinema. Not Blu-Ray. Some late-run titles _might_ be available on Blu-Ray, but most titles will not be available until their Blu-Ray release date. Perhaps the original poster is fine with this, but it is something to note. Also Blu-Ray is not really an exhibition format--it is not reliable enough for commercial screenings, and it is often dumbed-down for home use (sound is often not the same as the theatrical mix, for example).

Do you really think I would go to all of this effort to build a baffled movie screen, and spend a year building all of these speakers if we had not already researched options for legally screening major motion pictures at our winery? The cost is fixed per viewing, regardless of how much I sell tickets for. These are movies that have already been released to Blu-ray; and they do come in a blu-ray format. Cheers.

- throw distance has _nothing_ to do with screen luminance; it is all about image size, lens speed (which may not be the same for all focal lengths), screen size, and screen gain

I hate to say it, but you are wrong on this one. You do not need to be a Cinematographer to know that distance is directly correlated to brightness on a linear scale. You actually contradict your own statement by then stating "its not about distance, its about image size". The further away you get, the larger the image, the dimmer it gets as the same amount of light is spread over a larger area. Even amateur astronomers (like myself) know that if you double the size of a planet in your telescope by doubling the power of its lens, you quadruple inversely the brightness of the planet you are looking at.

- 5K lumens is fine for this size screen

I agree, having been able to watch a few movies on it at this point. It can even take a lot of artificial ambient light without issue. However, allow full daylight in through our 8 large windows and 3 french doors and viewing is a no go. Simple drapes will be fixing that issue, again, allowing the projector to easily overcome the artificial ambient light here and there.

- why a 16x9 screen? almost zero feature films exist in this aspect ratio; most current releases will be either 1.85:1 or 2.39:1; the screen should be in one of these formats, with a masking system to create the other (as well as 1.37:1 and 1.66:1, for older films and European films, as needed).

Why 16x9? Because:

1. Most High Definition content is presented in this format, and more television will be watched on this screen than movies (for instance; the Super Bowl ;-)
2. 1.78 is pretty darn close to 1.85...and not all 1.85 content is actually 1.85 content....proven by the many movies I have already sampled on our 182" 16:9 screen. Ever watch a 1.85 movie on an everyday 16:9 (1.78) TV? See any black bars on the top and bottom? Didn't think so. At any rate, there was a 1.85 movie in which I had tiny horizontal bars. I simply zoomed in a tad to fill the screen and had an inch or two of bleeding into my triple velvet on either side of the screen. You cannot see the bleeding at all, and you miss absolutely nothing by shaving off ~3" of an image that is 168" wide.
3. Because 16:9 maximizes the size of the screen in all settings. Imagine for a moment that I went anamorphic (which I did consider). Such an aspect ratio does not make the image any larger than what I can produce on a 16:9 screen. However, If my screen was 2.39:1, and I watched HD content, my image size would be SIGNIFICANTLY smaller. Quite frankly, I would rather experience the same size anamorphic image with horizontal bars, than experience vertical bars on much smaller 16:9 content.

- the projector choice was poor--it's clearly a unit designed for home use (no interchangeable lenses, no douser/shutter, single-chip DLP, no HD-SDI input, etc.); a professional 3-chip DLP unit (preferably one of the new S2K D-cinema units, at about $30k) would have been a much better choice and would be more flexible and reliable.

You clearly did not pay any attention what-so-ever to my stated BUDGET. Would I have purchased a BenQ SH960 if I had just won the Powerball? Hardly. To be fair, I would probably sell our little castle winery and actually build an actual castle if I had won the Powerball. At any rate, I am confident we have the best projector that $5,000 can buy that will provide sufficient lumens for our application. The blackest blacks do suffer just a little, but without another HDTV with superior contrast sitting right next to it to compare, you really don't notice it. In fact, I am very satisfied with this projector, and I hardly think it was intended "for home use". I say this because most home projectors do not exceed 1,200 lumens, and have better contrast ratios. This projector is specifically marketed as a large conference room/church projector.

- the sound processor should be a Dolby CP650/CP750, Ultra-Stereo JSD-80/100, or some similar unit designed for professional use that will be reliable and serviceable for many years; home-type equpiment has no place in commercial theatres.

Agree to disagree. I would again go back to my stated budget of $15,000 for a 13' x 14' x 30" baffle wall, 182" screen, 6" screen border, 3 main loudspeakers, 12 surround speakers, 4 horned subs, 1 AVR, 8 crown amplifiers, 1,000 feet of 14 gauge speaker wire, speaker mounts, speaker wall plates, and paint for the speakers. Did I miss anything? Probably. I find my Onkyo works just fine. :-)

- there should be a video monitor and sound monitor in the rack for previewing and troubleshooting

I have thought of this, and have looked at a rack mountable 19" 4:3 monitor, though it might be just as easy to buy a standard 19" monitor and set it on a standard rack mountable shelf. As my Audio/Video budget is completely exhausted, such a thing will have to wait. Besides that, after installing an AVR, Blu-ray Player, DBS DVR, 8 amplifiers (9 after I install the in-ceiling speakers throughout the winery), a DMX Controller, and a 12-input Mixer...I am quickly running out of room in my 7' tall rack. At the end of the day, we are a winery showing movies ;-)

- amps usually go in the bottom of a sound rack for stability reasons--you don't want that rack to tip over and kill someone; just make sure that it's not top-heavy

Have no fear...it's bolted to the wall ;-)

- no comment on the speakers, but I get the impression that the original poster was planning to use the same system for both movie sound and for other events--this is a bad idea (unless "other events" just means low-volume background music); he'll understand why as soon as someone blows a center-channel horn diaphragm by doing something stupid.


1. The rack is locked...ergo no one can turn up the volume but me.
2. The center channel is not used for live music. ;-)
3. The 4pi in combination with their corresponding Crown XLS2000 amps wired in bridged mode would be very difficult to blow...as everyone in the room would experience permanent hearing damage before it could be turned up loud enough to blow a diaphragm. Perhaps someone could turn EVERYTHING all the way to the max without content being played and then have it all come at you all at once when content is started? Yes, I would be in trouble then....but this would almost certainly have to be done on purpose...and again - I refer you back to my first point: the rack is locked.


- I question the wisdom of having the video projector under the balcony--it will produce noise and heat, both of which should be kept away from your patrons; also, it will need to be serviced (or have the lamp(s) replaced at some point, and you probably do not want to drag out a ladder to do this in view of the customers.

It is aesthetically pleasing where I have it mounted. Again, at the end of the day, we are a winery with a big ass screen and bad ass sound ;-)

- you will want/need an automation system to control house lights, fader settings, format changes, etc., unless you want to pay a projectionist to babysit the equipment at every screening (though I'm not sure how you would automate Blu-Ray)

Gee wiz....if only I had ran 700' of DMX cable controlled by a rack mountable DMX controller. And only if I had an AVR with an RS232 port...like an Onkyo 709. 'nuff said. Also, I may WANT such control, but I certainly don't NEED it. I will say it again; we are a winery showing movies.

- in the pictures, the screen looks to be an uncomfortable distance off of the floor; you will have to check the sightlines from every seating position (while seated, not while standing) and confirm...that one is a judgment call.

I have been in many professional cinemas that have their screens even higher than ours, and they did not provide stadium seating either. Our screen height was determined using careful measurements taking into consideration patrons both on ground level, and those in the balcony. I also took into consideration the continuous direction nature of my 4pi mains, and positioned them in such a way that all audience members are within its spectrum, also utilizing JBL's Professional Cinema specifications for speaker placement and positioning.

- curtains for the screen (regular curtains, in addition to masking curtains) would look nice and protect the screen from damange when non-movie events take place.

Perhaps, but the screen is high enough that it should be protected from accidental damage. Besides, the stained birch is looking pretty nice...I would hate to cover it up. :-)

- if you are stuck mounting the video projector under the balcony (instead of in a projection booth), at least consider enclosing it in a soundproof and ventilated box to keep it from annoying your patrons

I have considered this, but not for the reasons you mention. I would be more concerned with tall patrons being able to touch the projector and potentially damage it. Again, this would have to be done intentionally, as it is pretty out of the way to accidental damage. This is a project for later when I am not busy finishing the winery's construction.

- if you are stuck with consumer-grade equipment (video projector, Blu-Ray player, processor), then at least have a backup for everything to ensure that you never have to give out passes or refunds to customers due to equipment malfunction; trust me, there is nothing worse than that.

I will take my chances. Your point is well taken, but the cost of refunds/rainchecks on a single screening is far exceeded by the cost of duplicating all of my consumer equipment "just in case". Again, at the end of the day, we are a winery showing movies, sporting events, etc.


I have to say I am a fairly discerning customer myself...and without any EQ having yet been done, I think our little dinner theater is freaking awesome. I can assure you that 99% of the population that will ever grace our halls will be less discerning. The other 1% can kiss my arse ;-)

Edited by dutchswan0311 - 1/9/13 at 8:08pm
post #492 of 585
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I realize that it may be too late to change some of these things, and I do not want to burst anyone's bubble; I did think that it was a good idea to post some realistic advice here, since it is obvious that few people in this thread have experience with commercial cinema exhibition, which is a significantly different beast than home screening rooms.

If you want an IMAX experience...go to an IMAX. If you want caviar and a dry red with your movie...come to our winery. Cheers!
post #493 of 585
You have beer as well though right?! tongue.gif
post #494 of 585
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

You have beer as well though right?! tongue.gif

At the moment, no. We are only allowed to sell beer where we make our wine. As the new winery is not quite yet completed, our liquor license will not allow us to sell beer there until our wine making operation has also moved to the new location. But yes...once that happens over the next few months, we will also be selling beer by the bottle. However, we will feature imported beer and native Iowa beers. If you want a Coors or Budweiser...go to a monster truck pull haha j/k.
post #495 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

Are you going to have showings in full light? 5500 lumens is a lot of brightness- especially if you have a high gain screen. That kind of brightness kills your contrast ratio, and dual lamps could get expensive.

even though this is a bit late, I still like your decision, seems you like it too now! I don't know where I've been on this thread for so long. 3 pages all of a sudden shocked me!!! I just scooped the w7000 and it certainly added some light to my image, at the cost of a little detail from the JVC rs40.

Looking good but with all the talk about the projector (and the need to really "commercialize" your setup, how does the SOUND work so far? good ambient effects with the 1pi's? F-20's still treating you right with actual movie viewing? I love what you have done and have several friends that love to tour wineries, so I think a trip up your way is definitely on the docket at some point soon smile.gif What else is going on in town or close to do while we are there? PM me if you don;t want to clog the thread anymore than I already have smile.gif

Congrats most of all, I love the floors, the setup, and at some point, hopefully (obviously) the wine biggrin.gif
post #496 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

At the moment, no. We are only allowed to sell beer where we make our wine. As the new winery is not quite yet completed, our liquor license will not allow us to sell beer there until our wine making operation has also moved to the new location. But yes...once that happens over the next few months, we will also be selling beer by the bottle. However, we will feature imported beer and native Iowa beers. If you want a Coors or Budweiser...go to a monster truck pull haha j/k.

Also, could maybe hook you up with some breweries here in my hometown Asheville, NC that are maybe not local, but as we are "Beer City USA" 4 years running, I might could find some offerings for you that would compliment your menu smile.gif Double Mocha Bacon Stout anyone? haha not my cup of tea but it is gaining a lot of real "Beer" fans around here!!!
post #497 of 585
Thread Starter 
beast...no worries.

Before I mounted and hooked up the 1pi surrounds, I was starting to regret building them, thinking I might have been better off with in-wall speakers since they don't really contain a lot of content during movies. Although, decent in-wall speakers would have killed my budget. I was afraid the 1pis would be a bit imposing on the room aesthetically, but having now installed them and heard them, I have no regrets and they are not an eye sore. They sound great and I can see why some people actually use the 1pi or 2pi as their mains. So, they perform very well as surrounds. That said, when I play music in "All Channel Stereo" mode; holy crap does the room get pounded! The F20s are just plain great. They are great with music and even better with LFE sound affects during movies. I really like them during movies because there's actually not a lot of content below 60Hz in movies. So when the content does finally arrive during a specific scene, you REALLY feel immersed into the move. That explosion feels like it is happening in the room...not because the base is loud, but because you physically FEEL the sound hitting your body. There are a few scenes that do what can be best described as God himself grabbing the edge of the floor and shaking the room like a man trying to shake the dust off a rug. Don't get me wrong...they sound great with music too, but can be a little too imposing at times with music as your ears can feel fatigue after some continuous listening. Perhaps I just need to turn the subs down a bit for musical content.

I am curious why opinionated Mr. Bippy didn't have anything to say about my sound system. I spent 90% of my time building the speakers, not to mention 70% of my budget on sound.

All in all, everyone at the winery agrees that our little dinner theater has gone from a nice idea to one of the centerpieces that set us aside from other winery experiences.

With regard to NC beers....interstate sales and/or transport of alcohol is a tricky and complicated. There are reciprocity laws, interstate licensing fees, etc. Your suggestion is something to consider though. First we have to get our own wine production moved to the new winery though lol.
Edited by dutchswan0311 - 1/9/13 at 8:47pm
post #498 of 585
I was wondering how you would reply to the criticism- and you handled it wonderfully.
post #499 of 585
Thread Starter 
beast...I forgot to answer a couple other questions you had. Sully is a town with a population of 900 conveniently positioned in the very center of the state a mere 10 minutes south of Interstate 80. We are the only thing to do in town. However, Des Moines is only 30-40 minutes directly west of the winery (I actually live in Clive...a western suburb of Des Moines). We have major music groups come to Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines...America's crossroad where Interstate 80 (which connects the East and West coasts) intersects with Interstate 35 (which connects Canada and Mexico). There is a Dutch town of about 10,000 called Pella that has a tulip festival every May. Literally as many as two million people will tour the town during the week of the tulip festival (not to mention May is the nicest month of the year in Iowa). Pella is only fifteen minutes South of Sully, which is the location of the winery. Des Moines also has an amusement park, a zoo, etc.
post #500 of 585
Thanks for the reply! Glad you are happy with the speakers and I will be sure and look into the concert line-up. That sounds way more fun that tulips biggrin.gif haha.
post #501 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

At the moment, no. We are only allowed to sell beer where we make our wine. As the new winery is not quite yet completed, our liquor license will not allow us to sell beer there until our wine making operation has also moved to the new location. But yes...once that happens over the next few months, we will also be selling beer by the bottle. However, we will feature imported beer and native Iowa beers. If you want a Coors or Budweiser...go to a monster truck pull haha j/k.

Sounds like a great place to spend an evening. Iowa is becoming (has become?) a good place for both wine and beer aficionados. cool.gif
post #502 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

Dear Bippy....


I have to say I am a fairly discerning customer myself...and without any EQ having yet been done, I think our little dinner theater is freaking awesome. I can assure you that 99% of the population that will ever grace our halls will be less discerning. The other 1% can kiss my arse ;-)

This is about where I would have left it. You've got more patience than I do.

The winery looks great. You have done a fantastic job.
post #503 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

beast...I forgot to answer a couple other questions you had. Sully is a town with a population of 900 conveniently positioned in the very center of the state a mere 10 minutes south of Interstate 80. We are the only thing to do in town. However, Des Moines is only 30-40 minutes directly west of the winery (I actually live in Clive...a western suburb of Des Moines). We have major music groups come to Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines...America's crossroad where Interstate 80 (which connects the East and West coasts) intersects with Interstate 35 (which connects Canada and Mexico). There is a Dutch town of about 10,000 called Pella that has a tulip festival every May. Literally as many as two million people will tour the town during the week of the tulip festival (not to mention May is the nicest month of the year in Iowa). Pella is only fifteen minutes South of Sully, which is the location of the winery. Des Moines also has an amusement park, a zoo, etc.

My wife played soccer at Central College in Pella but I have yet to attend the Tulip Festival and throw on some wooden shoes. Should be fun to visit your winery next weekend.

Nice work on the reply, I would probably have written "Tool" in various ways in mine.
Edited by HuskerOmaha - 1/10/13 at 4:11pm
post #504 of 585
I never read Bippy's comments to be an attack. I think he was sincerely trying to be helpful but missed the target of what this theater is. Also a little late..
post #505 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I never read Bippy's comments to be an attack. I think he was sincerely trying to be helpful but missed the target of what this theater is. Also a little late..

My interpretation was that he just found the thread, appeared to have read it (really?), and then proceeded to throw some legitimate but mostly inane comments out there that weren't particularly going to be helpful at the point the build was already at. Many people don't take the time to read and digest threads and it bugs me when they go off about this that and the other without figuring out what is going on first.
post #506 of 585
^^i agree with that
post #507 of 585
Ever taken a class with Bippy? He's the one who constantly asks stupid questions to show how smart he is.
post #508 of 585
Umm...wow. I really wasn't trying to be a jerk. I have just seen too many well-meaning but poorly informed people try to make a go at film exhibition, and they usually end up failing miserably. I was hoping that this would not happen here. HuskerOmaha pretty much nailed this--I stumbled on this thread and figured that I would offer some thoughts, based upon my work in the exhibition industry. I am sorry if they were interpreted in the wrong way.

To respond:

- good that you've settled the rights issues; I did not realize that you could book Blu-Ray titles at a flat rate; in that case, the pricing and business model here look much better

- you're still wrong about throw distance affecting image brightness--think of taking a picture of a flat object with a 35mm still camera: you can put the camera ten feet away and use a 50mm lens at f/4 or put the camera twenty feet away and use a 100mm lens at f/4 and the exposure and field of view will be identical...same thing applies to projection--if you double the focal length and the throw distance, the picture size and screen luminance remain the same, assuming that the speed of the lens is the same at both focal lengths; the only time that this does not apply is to extreme throw distances (think drive-ins) where dust particles in the air actually do make a difference

- your rationale for a 16x9 screen makes sense in this case, if the BR material that you are screening is really 16x9; this has never been a standard theatrical format, however, and the "flat widescreen" features that you screen would have originally been composed for 1.85:1 (though we are probably splitting hairs here); all of that said, I still think that masking is pretty much mandatory (have you ever seen a non-drive-in commercial cinema without screen masking?)

- budgets are what they are, but I do fear that you may be going too cheap on the projector; this is something that I would suggest considering upgrading at some point in the future

- same for the sound processor--I fear that this may bite you sometime at an inconvenient moment

- I hope that you are not showing disk menus and such things on the screen...that is just horrible showmanship right there, and I'm not sure how you would avoid this without having a small video monitor in or near the rack, but perhaps you have solved this with your automation system (which I did not realize that you had)

- good to hear that the rack is stable...I have seen some top-heavy racks and they are just scary

- locked-down system to be used by knowledgeable operators only is good for preventing blown speakers

- I'll trust that the screen position is fine...pictures can be deceiving

- I did not comment on your sound system (amps and speakers) because I suspect that it is fine for the application; if anything, it is probably overkill (which is a good thing)

I do wish the original poster the best of luck with his venture. I suppose that my earlier post was a bit of a reaction to exhibitors who do not know or understand the business and who do everything on the cheap, thus giving the entire industry a bad name. I see posts all the time here from people who say that their home setups are better than anything that they have seen or heard in commercial cinemas, and I feel badly that they are probably correct. I really do think that home screening rooms and commercial cinemas should be able to coexist and complement each other, but that cinemas should always strive to offer a superior experience.
post #509 of 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by bippy View Post

- you're still wrong about throw distance affecting image brightness--think of taking a picture of a flat object with a 35mm still camera: you can put the camera ten feet away and use a 50mm lens at f/4 or put the camera twenty feet away and use a 100mm lens at f/4 and the exposure and field of view will be identical...same thing applies to projection--if you double the focal length and the throw distance, the picture size and screen luminance remain the same, assuming that the speed of the lens is the same at both focal lengths; the only time that this does not apply is to extreme throw distances (think drive-ins) where dust particles in the air actually do make a difference
While your comment is generally correct, the sorts of consumer projectors people on this forum usually buy don't have constant aperture lenses, so they do change brightness over the zoom range. I can't speak to commercial projectors and their lenses.
post #510 of 585
I think Desertdome said it best Bippy,
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

They are serving wine, not champagne. Shouldn't be an issue. This is also in Sully, IA. It will be the best theater most patrons have ever attended. The 16:9 screen is for football! cool.gif

the goal here isnt an IMAX experience or really even a traditional theater experience. its a relaxed dinner with entertainment experience. and for that i think its very capable.
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