15" driver availability/build

If sheer performance is your goal without any restrictions but at the same time staying within' a budget then do like so many others are and grab the same EP4000 and power 8 MFW-15's in 4 dual opposed sealed boxes of about 3cft. Even 4 of the drivers in 2 dual opposed or 4 single sealed will be a nice upgrade in performance over the LMS-R or even the 5400.

If you can't build 2 or 4 enclosures then you could use 2 Dayton RSS390HF's in one box. You could wait for the Tempest (DIYCable) or step up to a Mach 5 IXL18 when they hit market if you wanna bump to an 18" driver.

There's also the IXL 18 for $300 shipped if you live in the US.
http://www.istonline.ca/mach5_ixl_18.html

100 liter enclosure (3.531cu ft)
Mach5 IXL18 = 800w
TC Sounds LMSR-15 = 1500w
Attachment 215858

dan711, I hope not to disturb your thread too much, but it seems like we are in the same boat here.

My goal is to find a driver that operates in small boxes (80-120 liters)and goes deep to about 10hz or below. LMS-R 15 seems like a perfect solution for me.

LMS-R 15 seems to take its time finding its way to stock and I am currently
trying to find alternatives.

I have read some issues about the TC Sounds production and maybe they are setting up a new production line, but I dont know if it is true.
If it is true, I am worried by quality issues that might occur.

When simulating other drivers in WinISD, either the boxes gets to big, or excursion limits the output in the low frequencies.

Dayton 15" drivers at parts-express seems like a possible solution when looking at spec. and price.
If so, i need to make 4xDaytons 15" vs 2xLMS-R15 to achieve about the same perfomance.
I am currently looking at 2xEP4000 to power the drivers.

Are there anyone that has experience/input regarding sound quality/performance on 2xLMS-R 15 vs 4xDayton 15" ?

I have (8) of the Dayton 15" HFs and (2) EP2500s.

First, for only 4 HFs in 4.2cuft boxes each, you only need one EP2500. The distortion is very low and the sound quality is great. My room is only 14x19 and my subs are located 4 in front center and 4 in back center for best room response. At my listening position, I can achieve 118db at 10hz with less then 10% thd.

I have never heard the LMS-R15 but have heard good things.

An 18" for under $300 shipped (US) and models close to the LMS......wow!

Thanks for the feedback.

Dayton seems to be a real candidate.
The downside is that i need to make the double boxes to compensate for the LMS-R 15 long stroke drivers, but if the result is better, I think I can live with it. :-)

I have been simulating Dayton Audio TIT400C-4 15" Titanic Mk III vs Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF and it seems like the TIT400C-4 has a couple of advantages regarding watts/SPL and excursion.
Price difference seems OK when I look at the performance specs.

What I dont know, is how the TIT400C-4 sounds vs RSS390HF-4.
Is it about same sound quality?

I have not heard the Titanic before. The advantages of getting the HFs is lower distortion and less watts needed to drive them. For the price of 8 Titanics, I got my 8 HFs and 2 EP2500s for $1,700. The Titanics would probably need 4 EP2500s or 2 Marathon MA5050s.

I'd be uneasy getting a Mael since it is being discountinued.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1338616
You're left sucking down that $400 loss *if* something goes wrong with the driver and an enclosure
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post20563885

Myself just having bought the last (supposedly) Tempest X2, then reading 2 weeks later that Kevin (nice guy, helpful and suprisingly open about talking stuff) is looking to get out of the driver business.....made me wish I'd known this before buying the driver. I wanted to run multiples (4) and with this lone driver I'd have no manu support/warranty. Being new the budget DIY...this current supply, thus company, thus warranty issue is a really big risk for me.

The Parts Express Dayton HF's are looking really good right now as they seem to be the most stable supplier. AE AV15s are making a comeback so that looks good too.

The other 18" I may try are these
https://www.madisound.com/store/prod...products_id=82
But I'm not sure if stock information is uptodate.

That was always the case, though. There was never any claim that soft parts would be available. And warranties for secondhand parts are generally not available.


Considering how many people actually buy "superwoofers" (compared to how many talk about them) I doubt the NS18's are flying off the shelves.

That said, I replaced a Mael-X with an Aura NS18. I doubt I could pick them apart in a blind listen. But the NS18 is a bit lighter (not as much as one would think; the steel in an underhung motor with that much throw basically negates the weight savings from the neo magnets) and honestly does have a much more "high end" look to it. (Also, I thought it would be cool to have at least one example of every 3" and 4" voicecoil subwoofer that Aura makes...)

Thanks for the tip.

I did some more "investigation" regarding distortion and it seems like
it is an issue for sure.
Tests of the Titanic MKIII reveales distortion as a true problem.

But I also read that the HF drivers have a problem with "oil-can" in small sealed boxes.
Some say that 3.5cu ft is minimum and that it needs stuffing.
Despite this, I think the HF drivers are pretty good candidates for my build.

2xLMS-R 15 or 4xRSS390HF-4 is now left on my "wanted" list and it all depends on when the LMS-R drivers get available.

Yeah, the HFs are known for very low distortion. I run mine in 4.2cuft per driver with a foam lining and polyfill. I think they would have been a little better in 5cuft boxes. My subs are amp limited which help keep them from getting sloppy.

The aurasound is a fantastic driver. Wonderful motor topology. And at the prices found today should be a serious consideration. I'd love to see distortion analysis of the ns vs the lms. Would be an interesting comparison.

Well built, well-packed, quite a sight to behold, sounds great in a relatively small cabinet.

It's my 18 of choice, regardless of price.

As it happens, I put my NS18 in the same box (somewhere around 110L) that had previously held a Mk. I Mael-X (the best version, IMO, because it had the lowest Le/Re of any run), a TC LMS Ultra (sold at a profit after I found it didn't offering me anything over the Mael-X).

With EQ I think it's vanishingly unlikely anyone could tell the three drivers apart in that size cabinet. All three are that good. So if you can get the Mael-X considerably cheaper than the NS18, that's an excellent way to go. The NS18 just looks better, which is enough reason for me personally to keep the NS18 and probably end up selling the Mael-X when I get around to it.

The model tells you nothing about linearity/distortion, compression, mechanical noise, etc.

I just bought two used but like new 15" JBL GTI MKI subs for under $500 shipped to me. I'm going to try them in my dual opposed sealed 7.3cf with 1,200W per sub. I just got tired of waiting for other 15" sub option and since I've heard good things about these, I'm going to try them. My only concern on them is their "limited" 20mm xmax. I do hope I made the right choice. AE, TC Sound (LMS), CCS SDX, Mach Audio, Adire Audio = no 15" drivers available.

Which ones are those? You mean the 4" coil one from the 1990s or the new Differential Drive one with more heat-sinking than most amps. From your claimed xmax, I assume the latter. I bought one early on in their production that ended up having tinsel slap. JBL sent me a new, tested driver and took that one back to see what went wrong.

That's a fantastic driver, though I think it would make sense to put them in separate boxes and spread them around your room.

Also, consider how heavy a box that's over 7 cubes with two of these monsters in it would be. Besides, you don't need that much space. You could cut your box down to 5 cubes or so and be happy.

It's the DD series JBL GTI 15". I'm going to use the same box I'm now using, which consists of two 18" PR's, tuned to 16hz with the LMS Ultra 5400 15" driver. I'm going to sell the PR's and LMS driver, close the PR openings and open another hole in the back of the box for the dual opposed driver set-up. The box, since it's made out of birch ply is not that heavy, just over 100-lbs. Since I'm used to a heavy driver in the LMS, two JBL GTI drivers should not be a problem even though both units will wait a little more than my LMS 15" driver.

I'm making a change, perhaps an upgrade from a PR design to a dual opposed sealed sub design. I plan to wire them both parallel for a 6ohm load to my bridged Yamaha P7000S amp which should be good for around 1,250W to each driver and EQ by the SMS-1. I just hope that power and size box won't make the drivers go over their 20mm "xmax" in the low bass.

The subs basically can't exceed xmax because of the Differential Design motor. There's a natural brake caused by one coil entering the other coil's gap.

That would mean each is 6; do you mean series?

Noah Katz, I'm going to wire the two DVC 6ohm subs in series/parallel which I believe will produce a 6ohm load to the amp, right?

DS-21, you said these subs basically cannot exceed xmax, even with big power applied to them? Say 1,500-2,000W? How will the distortion levels be?

Do you guys believe this sub will be a nice upgrade from my current sub? I know the mid-bass should be better with more low end extension compared to the PR sub. Where the PR sub should have the edge is in the 15hz-30hz area or so. Hopefully, I made the right choice.

I'm also thinking of getting the Peavey IPR DSP3000 amp to power both drivers, should work out fine, right? One amp channel per driver with a load of 3ohm per driver should provide above 1,200W per driver, no? I'm currently using the Yamaha P7000S amp/Velodyne SMS-1 EQ combo but will probably end up selling them. The Peavey amp should provide more flexibility and convenience, correct? Thanks.

Make it easier on yourself and just run the amp in stereo, one channel to each driver.

You don't want the risk of different signals on the two voicecoils.


Right, there's a electromagnetic brake. Apply 2kW, the 5kW the Mk. II dustcaps claim they can take (such a tacky dustcap, for such a great drive unit), it doesn't matter.

As for distortion, depends on how you measure, I guess. Your much bigger issue is that you're not driving the room from different points, so your bass response is going to be lumpy anyway.

As for an upgrade over a TC LMS Ultra? Honestly, probably not. Your PR cabinet will be much more efficient down low (until tuning). They're both great woofers. The JBL, thanks to that brilliant split-opposed-coil motor, has a lot less inductance and can play higher cleanly than the LMS. That may be an improvement for you.

Though it occurs to me that the very best thing you could do would be to keep your current sub, and put the W15GTi's in small closed boxes (say, 20"x20"x12") at different places in the room.


I'd keep the SMS-1. It's IMO by far the easiest-to-use subwoofer measurement setup out there. Maybe keep the SMS and get the non-DSP Peavey amp. Later on, you can get a miniDSP or Behringer DCX for your real upgrade, which is to a multisub system.

From what I have read about the driver, it seems to be a good quality driver.
After modelling it in WinISD I was very suprised regarding SPL/excursion.
If I choose this driver I would get more headroom in the low and for me this is a good thing.
I tested a SVS PC-Ultra 13 in my HT (sealed mode) and it extended flat down to 7Hz...
With 2 of the NS18 I think it might be enough.

Good luck to you with your build and I hope to see some pictures in future.