Passive FPR 3D ghosting problems in Interlace and Checkerboard - Page 9

Skyguy3d do you not have nvidia 3dtvplay?
If not do you want it?

As it so happens, I do have an Xbox 360 controller for my PC but even playing WoW I didn't notice any mouse clicking issues, though I didn't test it long.

I'm trying to avoid using 3DTV Play because I don't want to spend the money on two sets of stereoscopic drivers, and the nVidia option won't give me 1080p at 60Hz. Am I right in believing 3DTV Play doesn't have a "trial" option?

Cheers

Yes, 3dtvplay has a 14 day trial, you can get it here http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-pl...-activate.html .

i do'nt use 3dtvplay very much due to the 720p and lg half res, dirt 3 has been fixed for 3dvision in 1.02 patch so i'm now playing that at low 720p res at max settings and it does look ok.
It looks miles better than a xbox360 still so i'm happy enough, just had a hour of dirt 3 in 2d max settings 32x aa and omg the quality blows me away, i wished 3d looked so sharp!

So I was playing WoW today in over/under, and was getting more and more frustrated with the input lag purely because of how it affected my ability to control the mouse... if I wanted to click on a herb or something it was impossible to do smoothly as I had to wait for the mouse to catch up with me. It was further frustrating me when I was trying to browse the web as it was hindering simple things like clicking links. I know the lag is only around 1/10 of a second (perhaps less), but it was surprisingly debilitating.

I was about to post on here to whinge about it when I decided to fiddle with a couple more settings and voila! Input lag was gone (or at least barely perceptible). I didn't even know what I had changed to make it go away, so I decided to note all of the settings in case something went wrong later. I had the HDMI input label on Game and the AV settings also on Game with custom settings.

I then started up WoW to test it out again, and the input lag was back once I switched the TV in over/under mode. This was frustrating, but what worried me further was that the input lag remained when I quit the game and turned 3D off on the TV, even though no settings had been changed. I decided to try a "reset" of sorts and switched the HDMI input label from Game to PC then back to Game, and switched the AV setting from Game to Expert 1 and back to Game, and the input lag was gone again. So it appears the TV is changing some settings when switching to 3D mode, and retaining some of those settings when switching back to 2D which requires this resetting manoeuvre to clear.

So I was very happy to get rid of the input lag. It wasn't an issue playing Prototype last night as I don't require precise movement, but when using a mouse cursor it felt debilitating. And as it seems that the only way to avoid it is to avoid using the 3D mode on the TV, I had to try the interleaved output again with IZ3D and see if I could get it working acceptably.

I tried using Phoenix EDID Designer to get my EDID from the registry, but the only entries listed were for my old Acer screen and the Sony Bravia I had before getting this TV. I suspect the reason this screen wasn't listed is because Windows has detected it as a Generic PnP Display so it doesn't have it's own EDID (not that I really know what an EDID is - just a display driver INF?). So I updated the driver for the monitor with the INF on the first page of this thread to see if that would work, and rebooted. After loading up WoW in interleaved output the ghosting was greatly improved from what it was yesterday, though I have done a lot of image adjustment since then so I can't say for sure if it was the EDID fix or the different image settings (or both). There is still some minor ghosting and it does detract from the 3D experience to a small extent - the sense of depth is better in over/under. The image looked a little crisper in interleaved though.

So now I have two choices:
Over/under output has a better sense of depth, a slightly softer image, and frustrating input lag.

Interleaved output has a very mildly distorted sense of depth with very minor ghosting, a slightly crisper image, and no input lag.

At this point I'm thinking I'll stick with interleaved mainly because of the low input lag, but I may use over/under for certain games depending on how the ghosting looks in interleaved and how important precision control is.

Skyguy, one thing I haven't noticed is the mouse clicking issue you mentioned using side-by-side modes... I haven't had a problem so far. I also wasn't able to get the laser sight working with Ctrl / in WoW - it came up with a round target-looking cursor, but it just stayed in the middle of the screen and didn't move with the mouse.

Cheers

Hi,
When you had lag was you at 60hz or 24hz?, at 24hz you will get massive amounts of lag.
What gfx card do you have? Edit, stupid me i see you have a nvidia!
Not sure if the edid fix only works for nvidia as when using the fix all ghosting is gone from interlaced 3d, it has'nt been reduced, it's gone 100%.
As you can see it has gone!

without fix


with fix


Now i'm not sure if the peole that have tried the fix and said it did'nt work or it reduced ghosting had amd cards?

Allso when using the modified edid 3dtvplay will no longer work, at the mo i have to swap between original edid and modified edid if i want to use 3dtvplay, luckily i do'nt use 3dtvplay very much so this is'nt a issue for me.

Thought i had better come back and give an update on my situation just incase anyone else was having the same sort of problems as me playing movies and games with the 55lw6500.

LG's customer service sucks, after ringing them about ghosting or cross talk as they call it in interleaved they told me to use other ways to watch 3d and just to live with it basically.

so ive moved to hdmi 1.4 for everything and i gotta say im 99% happy with it at the moment..

For games im using Nvidia's 3dtv play outputing 720p 60hz, theres no option for 1080p playback unless you go to 24hz which sucks for games, so 720 60hz, playing portal 2 = perfect, batman arkham asylunm = perfect, call of duty = perfect, resident evil 5 = prefect, deus ex has some serious shimmering on the brights but probably something i can adjust, nice to play though im currently hooked on it.

as for movies im using Nvidia's version of the stereoscopic player, the codecs ive been messing with for the past week trying to find the best combination..
what ive got that seems to be playing everything nicely is:

audio: ffdshow or ac3filter, both work well
video: elecard
and halli media splitter

the video codec was the hardest to get right, next in line was Arcsofts video decoder but had some slight tearing, Coreavc produced a perfect picture but wouldnt drop frames to correct its self and stay in sync, elecards picture is almost as nice as coreavc and itll drop frames to stay in sync so it was my winner.

i also found there was a lag in 24hz due to the TV processing time, so you have to find this lag and input the number into ffdshows or ac3filters audio output delay, mine was 350ms you can find what yours is using BBC's HD audio lag test, google it

out of the 35 HD 3d MKV's i have only 3 still plays out of sync, im just going to delete them and find a new source

also found that in 1.4 3d you can turn tru motion on high which is awesome for 3D movies, ill never be going back to interleaved for movie playback.

maybe thatll help someone in a similar situation, i thought itd be a piece of cake hooking up my HTPC to the tv for 3d playback but the technology is still new so its taken alot of stuffing around but im 99% happy now, time for a holiday from all this crap, watch a movie and put my feet up

[quote=zaphodalive;20903343].

I tried using Phoenix EDID Designer to get my EDID from the registry, but the only entries listed were for my old Acer screen and the Sony Bravia I had before getting this TV. I suspect the reason this screen wasn't listed is because Windows has detected it as a Generic PnP Display so it doesn't have it's own EDID (not that I really know what an EDID is - just a display driver INF?).
Once you're done trying the modded EDID, go to device manager and uninstall it. Then you should be able to right click your desktop, choose screen resolution and click detect, if the LG shows up you are good to go also verify it shows up in the Nvidia control panel if not reboot. If the LG does not show up install Monitor Asset Manager it's free. http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm Then restart your computer with only the LG connected. Now open Monitor Asset Manager, in the upper left corner it will say "Display IDs", in the list click on LG and bring up the Raw Data and Asset Information. Now click on file in the upper left hand corner of the screen, click on Create Inf..., rename the file to LG.inf and save to your desktop. You'll have to choose that inf file as the driver for your TV. Right-click "My Computer" -> Properties -> Device Manager -> Monitors -> Your Projector (most likely listed as plug and play). Then right click that and do Properties. You may have to hit "Uninstall" first. Then click "Update Driver", "Browse my Computer", "Search this driver location". Then give it the folder for that inf you created. Should be able to choose it now, just hit OK for any warnings that pop-up. This will install the manufactures EDID with detailed timings and resolutions.

Hey guys

Thanks for the help, but I'm afraid I still can't get the EDID fix working. Using moninfo I have the GSM0001 (Registry-Active) listing which has Extension blocs: none, and this is related to the modded INF that the monitor is using in Device Manager. But under GSM0001 (Real-time 0x0031), it still has Extension blocs: 1 (CEA-EXT).

The DAT file I created with Phoenix appears fine, it has 0 extensions, and the INF I create with it appears to be fine based on the Registry-Active listing in moninfo, but for some reason it appears to be using the original EDID info in real-time.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

The registry-active, if that says zero extension blocs then you have installed the inf fine, ignore the registry-real time as that is just saying what your original edid is, if you ever need to revert back to the original edid you can make another inf file straight from the Registry-real time.
If your moninfo looks like the attachment then you have done everything right, if you want you can upload your modified inf and ill install it, aslong as its done correctly it will work with interlaced for me.
I've found that i can use any inf from any tv manufactuer, the golden rules is allways the same for me, delete the extension blocs and i have 100% working interlaced everytime.

@ Zaphodalive, i take it you got my pm ok?

Lol
Have just finished watching Garo Red requiem 3d.
Omg the japanese have some crazyass things on there tv's, what a wicked little gem it was.
Got Gatling gears last night, this is another amazing 3d game that runs perfect under tridef, not tried the others.
Now i'm going to get back in bed and watch thor 3d, i do love my lazy life!

Hey Butmuncher, thanks for your help. From what you've said it appears I've done everything correctly, but still got slight ghosting with interleaved

I've read elsewhere that Win7 64-bit strictly adheres to the EDID of the monitor regardless of the INF you install, and this could be causing a problem. My last resort at this point is to cut a couple of the pins on my DVI adapter which transmit the EDID info, so that Windows is forced to use the information in my modified INF. If that doesn't work then I guess there's nothing else I can do.

I've attached my INF for you to try.

Cheers

 

55LW6500 Modded INF.zip 1.0576171875k . file

Ok i tried your modded edid and as i thought, it works perfect with zero ghosting.
I wonder why the fix works so good for me but not for others and seeing as lg just push us away with the blame on our shoulders i wonder what the hell can be done to fix these issues as nobody in the word yet has confirmed checkerboard and interleaved working correctly, as far as i know i'm the first person on the internet to have interlaced working 100% ghost free, maybe there's others but nobody has ever confirmed that.

I'll be phoning lg on wedensday for an update, see what they say, if the tv cannot play checkerboard correctly or they can't give simple answers to why they have these issues then i suppose we have all been ripped off with our 3d options!

Great thread all! I've been thinking about trying passive for my 3D gaming setup. I currently have a Samsung 7100 series LED 47" which I have a week or so more to considering returning before that window closes. I tried a Sony 40" LED at first and the ghosting on PS3 (Gran Turismo) is 3D was bad! You'd think Sony could optimize for their own game. Anyway, returned that for this more expensive Samsung and it's better, plus supports 1080p checkerboard w/ 3D Vision on the PC w/ the roller mod (but so far I can't seen to get very much depth on that without crosstalk, even with trying to optimize TV settings, but that's another issue...)

Anyway, I like the idea the LG can be used w/ checkerboard. I still miss my Mitsu 60" DLP which looked amazing in checkerboard 3D Vison on the PC, but only so-so on the PS3 3D content. So I'd consider trying the passive LG but have one important question: I've read it's suggested to sit minimum 6' or so from the screen or 3D effect can be broken. In my racing cockpit sim rig I sit closer than that to better fill the field of view. It's about 42" eye distance to screen, and height wise my eyes are between centered and 1/3 of the way from the top of the screen. I'm considering the 47" model (whichever supports checkerboard too.) Could someone check or weigh in if the 3D effect will work with that seating position? What about the scan lines gap sitting that close? What do you think? Also anyone use one of these displays to play Gran Turismo in 3D mode? Wonder how the 720p scaled looks and it there is obvious ghosting in areas like the track's white lines or the tree line where it meets light colored sky like I experience with the active displays (except for DLP that is.)

Hey skyguy

I tried a VGA cable as you suggested, and indeed the slight ghosting remained. So in that case I'm guessing I can't expect an improvement from the EDID fix - I didn't actually check the EDID while running on the VGA cable though.

I use the Game input label on the HDMI port so I do have access to Sharpness, and I found that a setting of 50 all but elimates the ghosting - even 1 point higher or lower and there is a significant increase in the strength of the ghosting. Although the ghosting is still there at 50, it's hardly noticeable and you can kinda zone it out. Not ideal perhaps, but something I'm just going to have to deal with if I want no input lag, unless I stumble across some magical arrangement of settings in 3d mode that make it go away.

Watched my first full movie last night, Alpha and Omega, in over/under format. Very nice Now I just need to get some films where the plot is good as well :P

Cheers

Thanks, so I play only some specific games (racing only) but like to play the latest when possible (like NFS Shift 2 Unleashed, Dirt 3) as well as the more hard-core and older/easier to run sims like rFactor and iRacing. I have a GTX470. Is there a way to run the 3rd party drivers w/ optimized interleaved @ 1080p which you'd think (or have tried ideally) to verify they work well in those types of games in 3D? My 3D Vision experience with the Mits DLP checkerboard was great and I'd like to find a way to get a similar result w/ my existing PC and a flat panel. I have only a day or two left to return my Samsung UN46C7100 LED which is still exhibiting crosstalk (or turn the 3D effect down to almost nil to avoid) w/ the "rollermod" to get 1080p checkerboard. 3DTV Play looked awful @ 720p and is a no-go for me.

I used a spoofed EDID for a projector I was using to enable 3D Vision on a computer running W7 64bit. I could tell that my 64bit W7 was seeing the moded EDID due to my messing around with native resolutions and preferred modes. I'd inact a change in the spoofed EDID such as changing native resolution from 1280x800 to 1280x720 and could see it change in my desktop resolution parameters as well. So W7 64 bit does indeed accept modded/spoofed EDID inf files.

Correct, I concur. I have an Optoma GT720 projector which, after sending in for firmware upgrade which was supposed to make it 3D Vision ready, still didn't work w/ Nvidia set up software. w/ spoofed .inf to the Acer 3D Vision projector though, works a charm. Now I just need a flat panel for my basement which works w/ console content okay and PC content @ 1080p like my DLP did. Wish I had never sold that damn Mits!

I was under the impression that the LG 47LW5600 had a DVI-D connection like their 3D monitor does (D2342-PN), until I went to buy one at the store today. I initially saw on the LG website Q&A where the question "Is this the 47" LED tv true 120 Hz technology, or simulated?" was answered by a LG spokeperson saying "The TruMotion 120Hz is a true, 120 Hz LCD panel over LED backlighting" http://answers.lg.com/answers/7676/p...&sort=helpfula Now I'm confused if if these LG Passive TVs do indeed accept a 120Hz input signal. I may opt for a 3D monitor instead, such as the SAMSUNG S27A950D or Acer HN274H.

The D2342-PN could only accept a 60Hz signal as well. But I've got to say that the brightness and color of it in 3D were exceptional. It's biggest drawback was being so small with a narrow viewing angle. The Acer HN274H (27" monitor) was found to have a LG panel in it and accepts 120Hz signals. http://3dvision-blog.com/tag/acer-hn274h/

I found this post very interesting, as I kinda assumed that the polarised glasses would completely eliminate ghosting (at least when viewing from an "acceptable" angle). So I gave this a test on my screen using a Tridef test image, where through the left eye I should see a large white "L" on a black background, or and "R" through the right eye. Blocking my left eye I saw the "R" clearly, with just a faint ghost of the "L" appearing as a deep blue/purple where it should have been black. As a moved around, I noticed I could further eliminate the ghosting by turning my TV by about 10 degrees, though it's still not completely gone. Perhaps if I got a hold of some other glasses with better ghosting rejection I could completely eliminate the ghosting effect.

Not sure where I can find any other glasses though, they're hardly a common item to purchase in NZ. Might have to look around. The ones I got with my TV are AG-F110.

Cheers

^^^^ Agreed! I'm going to try out my first passive this weekend, the LG 47" 5600 model. I have already done the "rollermod" to my Nvidia setup and was hoping since this TV supported checkerboard that I could use the native Nvidia 3D Vision drivers like I could w/ my Samsung LED, but sounds like the LG still has issues w/ checkerboard ghosting. Still, I took back my Samsung LED since even w/ the rollermod and using full 1080p checkerboard, there was a lot of ghosting unless depth was 20% or under. So hoping I get good performance from the LG and the 3rd party drivers w/ line-interleave on the games I enjoy. If not, I may try the Samsung plasma instead, but I'm really hoping passive works out for me!