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Passive FPR 3D ghosting problems in Interlace and Checkerboard - Page 12

post #331 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post

Also I found out the new 4.01.30 firmware changed it's frame-packing detection routine so now it bypasses the 3d warning message and goes directly into 3d now without having to press the ok confirmation button.



It's this quote that makes your thoughts butmuncher about the edid being bugged somehow and making people get there 3d modes not set properly. My guess is with the inf showing a reserved extension block has to do with with LG updating their EDID for compatibility with blu-ray players and this has some negative effects on how it is now read through the PS3 and how it could affect the PC HDMI output.

Still, someone with better knowledge of the EDID would be helpful.

that's crazy, so the 3dtv got updated with new firmware and now his ps3 does'nt see the tv as a hdmi 1.4, wow.

I've seen a few things posted here and there about dodgy edids, wether its the monitor that has been released with a faulty edid or gfx cards that can't read the edid correctly but different cards have the checkerboar bug aswell as different lg 3dtv's, some of us have the colourbug in interleaved and some do'nt but again this is on different lg 3dtv's/ firmwares??
One thing we do know for certain is that checkerboard does'nt work and that has been tested on numerous pc's with different specs so i'd say that rules out our systems..

Something else that makes me believe it's the edid is that with the last 2 lg passives i've had have had the colourbug in both interleaved and checkerboard and deleting that extension bloc fixes interleaved for me, i have to have a modified edid!

The info in the edid's hdmi 1.4 data has tobe wrong somewhere and when we switch to checkerboard the edid info on our pc's output at the wrong timings ect or the tv does some type of scaling or or or , god knows , i have seen issues alittle like this with normal 2d monitors that needed a edid fix so it sure is a big possibility.

If i can make interleaved have the bug or not then that's a pretty big pionter to what the problem is and the only way so many systems can have the problem is obviously down to lg's firmware/edids as the checkerboard bug cross's over to lg actives aswell.

still waiting on a firmware disc

Does anybody have a old gfx card that can output component?
I know my lg has checkerboard on the component input so i got a vga-component to find that newer graphics cards cant output the rgb needed over vga. I was gutted tobe not able to test if checkerboard works correctly over Y.Pb.Pr.

Now a look on google shows the ati 4850 has tv/component out, has anybody got anything like this and can test?
Or gtx 200 series or anything that will work with tridef or iz3d ect and has tv out.

Quote:


The components come enclosed neatly in another box to keep them protected during transport, or when not in use. There are two layers inside the protective box - one for the video card itself and another for the accessories that are included. In addition to the HD4850 card, PowerColor adds a quick-start manual, driver cd, a component-out dongle, an S-Video adapter, a DVI to VGA adapter, a DVI to HDMI adapter, and a CrossFire Bridge.

Quote:


Well, the 470 doesn't come with a TV-out port and adapter like the GTX200s did. It just has 2 DVI connectors and a mini-HDMI. So, you can't get component video from it out of the box.
post #332 of 513
As it happens I'm running a GTX285 which, if I remember correctly, did come with the component "dongle". Whether or not I have it any more is another question, I'll have to have a hunt around for it after work.

I don't have any idea if my TV will run checkerboard 3D mode on the component input, but I'll give it a go and let you know what happens.

Cheers
post #333 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodalive View Post

As it happens I'm running a GTX285 which, if I remember correctly, did come with the component "dongle". Whether or not I have it any more is another question, I'll have to have a hunt around for it after work.

I don't have any idea if my TV will run checkerboard 3D mode on the component input, but I'll give it a go and let you know what happens.

Cheers

Sweet, fingers crossed that dongle is somewhere!
My 42lw450u only has checkerboard at 1080p over component, would be nice to see it work as then we know it's a hdmi issue.
post #334 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post


Still, someone with better knowledge of the EDID would be helpful.


As stated by Butmuncher there have been many known problems with EDID since it's inception, whether it manifests itself in audio or video conflicts. Here's a good article titled "Fixing Ugly DVI/HDMI Displays due to EDID bugs on nVidia drivers" http://analogbit.com/fix_nvidia_edid Here's another good article on EDID and how to check it in your registry http://currysauce.org/2010/03/20/how...raphics-cards/ And another article/thread refering to the same type of EDID fix for overscan issues http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...9&#entry330319 And another using an EDID fix for screen issues at start-up, while not relevant to our problem, it is a good article shedding additional light on EDIDs and their format http://blog.komeil.com/2008/06/fixin...no-signal.html
post #335 of 513
quote:

ORIGINAL: jim-evga@collutions.com


Each byte is represented in the raw data by a 2 character hexidecimal value and you need byte numbers 8, 9, 10, and 11 (byte count starts at 0, not 1). Here's the beginning of the first line of your raw data broken up into bytes:
00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 41 0C 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 <--Byte
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 <--Byte Number


Each block is 128 bytes, and each byte is represented by two characters. Have a look here at post #3 http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1347644
post #336 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

"Fixing Ugly DVI/HDMI Displays due to EDID bugs on nVidia drivers" http://analogbit.com/fix_nvidia_edid[/url]

Lol
Stumbling upon on that site a few month back led me to have working interleaved
post #337 of 513
Hehe, I figured as much :P

Now whether or not this is a problem with AMD, Intel or other GPUs I'm unsure. (in regards to above EDID references)
post #338 of 513
I came across an article today talking about changing convergence, separation and other 3D parameters in the game.cfg file in the users/saved games/crysis2 folder when using V1.9 patch in Crysis 2.
-- [Game-Configuration]
-- Attention: Make file read only to prevent game from changing it!

r_Driver = "DX9"
r_fullscreen = 1
r_Height = 1080
r_Width = 1920
sys_spec = 4

;------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------
;variable: r_StereoDevice DUMPTODISK, REQUIRE_APP_RESTART
;type: int
;current: 100
;help: Sets stereo device (only possible before app start)
;Usage: r_StereoDevice [0/1/2/3/4]
;0: No stereo support (default)
;1: Frame compatible formats (side-by-side, interlaced, anaglyph)
;2: HDMI 1.4 (PS3 only)
;3: Stereo driver (PC only, NVidia or AMD)
;4: Dualhead (PC only, two projectors or iZ3D screen)
;100: Auto-detect device for platform
;
;variable: r_StereoFlipEyes DUMPTODISK
;type: int
;current: 0
;help: Flip eyes in stereo mode.
;Usage: r_StereoFlipEyes [0=off/1=on]
;0: don't flip
;1: flip
;
;variable: r_StereoMode DUMPTODISK
;type: int
;current: 0
;help: Sets stereo rendering mode.
;Usage: r_StereoMode [0=off/1/2]
;1: Dual rendering
;2: Post Stereo
;
;variable: r_StereoOutput DUMPTODISK
;type: int
;current: 4
;help: Sets stereo output. Output depends on the stereo monitor
;Usage: r_StereoOutput [0=off/1/2/3/4/5/6]
;0: Standard
;1: IZ3D
;2: Checkerboard (not supported on X360)
;3: Above and Below (not supported)
;4: Side by Side
;5: Line by Line (Interlaced)
;6: Anaglyph
;
;variable: r_StereoSupportAMD REQUIRE_APP_RESTART
;type: int
;current: 0
;help: Disables/Enables [0/1] stereo support on AMD hardware
;------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------

r_StereoDevice = 3
r_StereoMode = 2
r_StereoOutput = 0
r_StereoEyeDist = 0.05
r_StereoScreenDist = 0.18
r_StereoHudScreenDist = 1.8
r_StereoNearGeoScale = 0.6
r_StereoStrength = 4



Press Ctrl+T to toggle stereo on/off, Ctrl+F3/F4 to adjust depth, Crtl+F11 to adjust frustum (correct mirrowed edges) and Ctrl+F7 to save the changed profile

credit to Nobsi over at Nvidia forumns
post #339 of 513
I'm pretty clueless to the whole EDID thing and how it works in relationship to the color spectrum, gamma, over/underscan, etc.... But I do wonder if part of the ghosting problem is due to the differences in parameters between Consoles and PCs. PCs are expected to be connected to monitors, consoles to TVs.

I read this in a thread on this forumn, where a game Dev was asking questions.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post16227989

PC levels 0-255
TV Levels 16-235

I'm not sure what goes on with xbox or PS3, but black when output to a TV should be at 16. I don't know the guts of those boxes well enough to know if the console compresses the range on output or if developers need to author their content for 16-235.

I do know I've seen some games on the PC where the full motion video was authored for 16-235 and thus black level was too bright on the PC.
post #340 of 513
Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it appears that I threw my component dongle away at some point when I moved house... I cleared out a bunch of old boxes and I'm guessing that I decided to ditch the dongle as I didn't think I'd ever have a use for it.

I'll have a more thorough search tomorrow, but it looks like we're out of luck.

EDIT: Looking back at an old parts list of mine, I'm not sure if my GTX285 actually came with the dongle. I had one for my HD4870 which I think I chucked out, not sure if it had the same plug on it. If I can find that dongle somewhere tomorrow, I'll see if it works for the nVidia card.
post #341 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodalive View Post

Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it appears that I threw my component dongle away at some point when I moved house... I cleared out a bunch of old boxes and I'm guessing that I decided to ditch the dongle as I didn't think I'd ever have a use for it.

I'll have a more thorough search tomorrow, but it looks like we're out of luck.

EDIT: Looking back at an old parts list of mine, I'm not sure if my GTX285 actually came with the dongle. I had one for my HD4870 which I think I chucked out, not sure if it had the same plug on it. If I can find that dongle somewhere tomorrow, I'll see if it works for the nVidia card.

Cool thanks dude, not to worry if you can't find it i'm sure somebody else will pop up sooner or later and test.

if people have the time can they signup and/or post at avforums lg forum to let the lg reps know we have issues, i think there's only me and skyguy3d there at the moment.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...l#post15476816

I do'nt know if i'm getting angrier or sadder or both and i'm sure you lot feel the same!
post #342 of 513
Hi everybody, I'm at a loss hear after reading all this.

I am planning to buy the LG 32LW4500 32" 3DTV but after this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

I think most LG techs are old school and think that PC gaming is done on a monitor. LG has worked with TriDef for passive display support, in fact there is a page for specific downloads supporting the LG monitors as well as for their monitor/tv hybrids. Yet the love doesn't seem to be on the TV side. You download the regular TriDef and the LG TVs are not recognized or listed in the drop down menu.

I wonder whether my soon to buy 3DTV is supported by Tridef at all?

Also, the EDID file at the beginning of this thread is no longer available for download. Will it work on my monitor (which is a 32" monitor instead), and fix ghosting problems if there were any?

Does this fix applicable for the D2342P as well? I never tried 3D on the LG 32LW4500 but I did tested out 3D on the LG 23" D2342P monitor several times and ghosting is so strong it is almost unacceptable. I am worrying that I will get the same result with my new purchase and there will be no way to fix it.
post #343 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodi View Post

Hi everybody, I'm at a loss hear after reading all this.

I am planning to buy the LG 32LW4500 32" 3DTV but after this post:



I wonder whether my soon to buy 3DTV is supported by Tridef at all?

Also, the EDID file at the beginning of this thread is no longer available for download. Will it work on my monitor (which is a 32" monitor instead), and fix ghosting problems if there were any?

Does this fix applicable for the D2342P as well? I never tried 3D on the LG 32LW4500 but I did tested out 3D on the LG 23" D2342P monitor several times and ghosting is so strong it is almost unacceptable. I am worrying that I will get the same result with my new purchase and there will be no way to fix it.

Hi,
Do'nt let the interleaved and checkerboard bug sway you from the lg passive, they are very good.
You would'nt know if you need a edid fix untill you try interleaved/checkerboard, if you have the colourbug in interleaved you can try the edid fix which may or may not work for you, it has worked on 2 different lg passive models for me, there are reports of interleaved working without a edid fix so i suppose these sets have been fixed via firmware maybe??

Heck if you had the colourbug in interleaved and checkerboard ( ghosting ) you can still play o/u, sBs and hdmi 1.4 that you can use for 3d gaming so it's not all doom and gloom, then just sit and cross your fingers and wait for a fix like we are.

If you get the tv and have the bug your more than welcome to send me your edid and i will delete the extension bloc for you but only if your having trouble, allways good to do things yourself if you can, experience is great!

I'm very unhappy with lg and there shoddy 3d support but i'm allso very happy that i have a crosstalk free 3d gaming 3dtv that is just wonderfull!
post #344 of 513
The wonderful thing about the LGs, are that they support multiple formats and are very versatile. They provide an excellent viewing experience in 3D with bright and vivid colors. Tridef supports multiple formats which makes it a great choice for 3D gaming software. The drop down menu has a slight learning curve due to the multiple listings of monitor, tvs and formats. When I had the LG monitor there was a specific download for it that was tied to the EDID. The packaged bundle was basicly a stand-alone interlace version, I never saw the multiple display list.
I had just downloaded the TriDef trial at the time I had posted that and was having a little difficulty figuring out the format that was represented by the displays listed. Well being that I wanted to game right away, I just fired up my Nvidia 3DTV Play and started playing. It wasn't until some time later I went back and tried the TriDef software, it works very well. I now see that when you select (standard display types) for the Manufacturer you get the choice for Line Interlaced, which is what I wanted to try with the trial. Sorry for any confusion
post #345 of 513
Thread Starter 
Hi,

I'm quoting this old thread to get you up to speed Sodi, since 3DNewb has used both the smaller monitor version and the larger tv version he probably has a more clear idea of why ghosting is increased when you use the smaller panel. Like I said in this post, the smaller fpr panel will have greater shifts in the light bending in the panel when viewed off axis and cause some distortion but the great thing about these passive tvs is, the larger the screen you get the better the image quality and less likely you will see ghosting. It's the opposite of what most people think because they would think the larger lines would be more of a bother but because most people will sit further than 4 feet away on a 55 inch, the lines are only visible if you look at the windows desktop. It's not an issue in a 3d movie or game.

Tridef software works on passive tvs and monitors, so does 3dtv play and IZ3D drivers. Just depends on how you like to play. And the final great part of all of this- no more worrying about your glasses breaking!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post

It has more due to the tolerance for manufacturing precision is more relaxed when building the FPR layer for larger screens than they are for smaller monitors so it creates the combination of lowering the viewing angle and also cause more ghosting when moving beyond the filters axis. Viewing angle horizontal is very good, vertical can break the 3d effect but is more relaxed when the screen is larger and increases the viewing angle in proportion to size. Some people with the TV sets have set it up so you can watch it laying in a bed and still have the 3D effect shown. If you still had the monitor, a good test for viewing angle is to use Test clip #1 and use one eye to measure the point where the numbers appear while changing your viewpoint. Basic rule of thumb for large screen passive tv is to keep the screen level from top to bottom somewhere your eyes meet to maintain 3D.




AMD still has work to do with HD3D, so having 3D companies like TriDef and IZ3D is a necessary part of using 3D today because it allows more types of displays to be supported and increases the chance for 3D recognition. Nvidia has more mature support for shutter because their expertise is defining 3d using shutter technology in an all in one solution. Once all the players have hit their notes in sequence then maybe Microsoft can put a solution out for 3D gaming standard.
post #346 of 513
The D2342P wasn't all that bad, my main complaint was the limited viewing angle, which is why I returned it after only 2 weeks. Depending on the game there was varying amounts of ghosting/artifacts, but I believe it was more do to the earlier version of TriDef, the newer releases fixed a lot of problems I had during that time. Like problems with launching games and compatibility in some as well. I can say my current experience with TriDef is going quite well now I've figured out the settings and should only get better with future software updates from TriDef. As well as firmware updates from LG.
post #347 of 513
OK, so I downloaded Phoenix EDID Designer, but I do not think it is windows 7 64bit compatible. It works sort of, I can extract the EDID but in the general tab where you change the number of extensions from 1 to 0, I can't, the box isn't there, because the window is cut off and I can't expand it either. I tried running it in compatibility mode, but no dice. I can read the word " Number of extensions:" but the window cuts off after the :

So I manually deleted the extension block, seemed to do the job, now I just need to test the ghosting/colorbugs.


BTW, how to you take your pictures? When I try thru the lens of the glasses it messes up.
post #348 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

OK, so I downloaded Phoenix EDID Designer, but I do not think it is windows 7 64bit compatible. It works sort of, I can extract the EDID but in the general tab where you change the number of extensions from 1 to 0, I can't, the box isn't there, because the window is cut off and I can't expand it either. I tried running it in compatibility mode, but no dice. I can read the word " Number of extensions:" but the window cuts off after the :

So I manually deleted the extension block, seemed to do the job, now I just need to test the ghosting/colorbugs.


BTW, how to you take your pictures? When I try thru the lens of the glasses it messes up.



Take picture through the lense, some reason i allways use the right lense as its easier for me to hold them both with 1 hand and if your using passive do'nt forget to take the picture at screen level and not from above the tv.
post #349 of 513
So I've been playing using TriDef and I do experience clear ghosting in interlaced or color ghosting in checkerboard. I wish it was easier switching formats, I hate having to close the game to swap and test. I'm wondering if iZ3D is better, is interlaced still great with it and checkerboard still bugged? I found an interesting statement by iZ3D on MTBS http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?opti...news&Itemid=73 I'd try the trial, but I used it up when I had a Qumi. I wasn't happy with it then, but it had more to do with my Nvidia glasses that were problematic with it. I so much happier with the passive solution and lack of sync issues
post #350 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

So I've been playing using TriDef and I do experience clear ghosting in interlaced or color ghosting in checkerboard. I wish it was easier switching formats, I hate having to close the game to swap and test. I'm wondering if iZ3D is better, is interlaced still great with it and checkerboard still bugged? I found an interesting statement by iZ3D on MTBS http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?opti...news&Itemid=73 I'd try the trial, but I used it up when I had a Qumi. I wasn't happy with it then, but it had more to do with my Nvidia glasses that were problematic with it. I so much happier with the passive solution and lack of sync issues

Did you try using isfexpert and

Change the sharpness settings on tv to
H Sharpness 34
V Sharpness 55

This fixed the clear ghosting for me 100%, lol of course i needed a edid fix as usual togo from colour ghosting to clear ghosting. Took me awhile to get rid of all the clear ghosting as i could see it in some thing but not in others, luckily dirt 3 was a very good setup game and i managed to totally eliminate clear ghosting all together by lowering my h sharpness abit.
I'd think if you have clear ghosting then you can maybe fix this with changing tv settings, i did so it's possible.
Fingers crossed my firmware will be here today and i'll be able to test with a normal edid.
My fingers are tapping!
post #351 of 513
Everybody do'nt forget to signup at the lg forum, standup and make yourself heard! been over 7 days and nobody has jioned, at this rate we will not be heard.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html

Just me and skyguy3d there at the mo, can you please support the thread or we will be swept under the carpet if we do'nt make ourselfs heard.
post #352 of 513
I'd suggest that everybody who has the bug to contact there country's consumer direct, watchdog, tyrading standards type orgs as i think we are being fobbed off, only way to get a result now is to complian to trading standards ect, took me about 10min to complain to 2 organizations, i just copied and pasted the same for both compliants.

If we do'nt start this now we may find that 12 month down the line our 3dtv's are still bugged!

The lg ld950 2010 model was never fixed! nor was any of there checkerboard 3dtv's from 2010, i know this because both active and passive 2011 lg's still have the bug.
post #353 of 513
Well, got new firmware and nothing has changed, still need to use a edid fix for interlaced and checerboard still does'nt work, allso i still have the black bars on either side in 2d-3d conversion.
Rubbish.
The_latest_firmware_file_v04.60.26
post #354 of 513
Thread Starter 
So no checkerboard improvement on that one? What about trumotion 1080 algorithm?
post #355 of 513
Can somebody help me and show me there monifo screen please.

You will need to click on the " regisry-active " in left windows and then screenshot it.

As you can see mine shows an extension bloc that says unkown, i can make as many modified edids as i like but never once have i seen it show the real extension bloc like in moninfo's "realtime".

When i was messing around with edids and my ld950 i never noticed i it said " unknown " as i was more intrested in deleting it alltogether .

If somebody could test this for me i'd be gratefull.
LL
post #356 of 513
Haha, I was doing the same thing this morning, while searching I found your other post, download EDID Manager from Extron. I'm currently using it and doing a byte by byte comparison, something is whacky. Maybe moninfo is not W7 64 compatible. What OS are you using? According to the help section of EDID manager, the 126th bye if 00 signals no extension block, if it's 01 then it signals there is one. Funny thing is I never knew what an EDID was until I came across your post on the Nvidia forumns. I've learned quite a bit since then and have taken note of all the issues it has caused for people with audio, video and handshake issues.
Anyways, I'm seeing the same thing "unknown", it would be interesting if the others have the same thing or if it's due to moninfo not properly constructing the inf file from the real time display.
post #357 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

Haha, I was doing the same thing this morning, while searching I found your other post, download EDID Manager from Extron. I'm currently using it and doing a byte by byte comparison, something is whacky. Maybe moninfo is not W7 64 compatible. What OS are you using? According to the help section of EDID manager, the 126th bye if 00 signals no extension block, if it's 01 then it signals there is one. Funny thing is I never knew what an EDID was until I came across your post on the Nvidia forumns. I've learned quite a bit since then and have taken note of all the issues it has caused for people with audio, video and handshake issues.
Anyways, I'm seeing the same thing "unknown", it would be interesting if the others have the same thing or if it's due to moninfo not properly constructing the inf file from the real time display.

I have tried on win7 x64 and vista x86, the damn xp disc i got is borked so i could'nt try that.

if you save your real time edid in moninfo and then open it up with moninfo it shows that the inf file is sound as it shows an extension bloc called "(CEA-EXT)", it's only once the file is installed that it shows up as Unknown, this was the reason i was going to try a edid overide with with x86 xp and vista but i can say that vista x86 still shows Unknown aswell, anybody here have xp?

Does anybody have a samsung 3dtv or something that's not lg, see if sammy shows unkown aswell?

Now if everybody here has unkown aswell then we may of been thrown another bone!
post #358 of 513
Dang it, I thought I found the problem. I thought the flag for the extension was in the wrong spot, but I forgot to start counting from zero. The first byte is considered to be in the zero spot, second byte is #1, etc... Definitely download EDID manager it is da sh!t, as you highlight each block of raw data it tells you what the byte represents. Post #158 on August 8th, I linked it after searching for EDID info, but never downloaded or checked it out any further. Unfortuneately it will not pull the real time display info or create an inf file, but it has enlightened me to the code/secrets hiding in the blocks of bytes.
post #359 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

Dang it, I thought I found the problem. I thought the flag for the extension was in the wrong spot, but I forgot to start counting from zero. The first byte is considered to be in the zero spot, second byte is #1, etc... Definitely download EDID manager it is da sh!t, as you highlight each block of raw data it tells you what the byte represents. Post #158 on August 8th, I linked it after searching for EDID info, but never downloaded or checked it out any further. Unfortuneately it will not pull the real time display info or create an inf file, but it has enlightened me to the code/secrets hiding in the blocks of bytes.

I wish i could learn the basics of edids, i have'nt a clue, i know my strengths and weakneses and messing with code just is'nt one of mine, good look to you dude, it's people like you that we need, brains like sponges, lol you suckup the infomation and process it correctly, lol i suckit in and then blow it out haha .

Skyguy3d i'll have a looksie at the trumotion and 3d and get back to you, let me just find some iffy small text and i'll be back
post #360 of 513
Hmmm, after reading this thread (http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...-b9b47fe10ed1/), it seems it may be a Windows problem. Definitely need to look into this further, checking the bytes of data in the extension blocks, it seems that most of the pertinent 1080P descriptors are contained within it.
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