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Passive FPR 3D ghosting problems in Interlace and Checkerboard - Page 16

post #451 of 513
Thread Starter 
Hi quisp65,

Do you still have the toshiba passive lcd to test? Also which model did you buy?

Hi arfess,

You would need a forum thread specific to the philips model. I guess you could create the thread yourself and see when others reply.
post #452 of 513
No. I never had the toshiba. I just went to Fry's and tested it. I will have the Acer 27 inch passive tomorrow though. They started selling the HR274H at newegg and my shipment arrives tomorrow :-)
post #453 of 513
Thread Starter 
Ahhh, well I guess you will be the first person here to use that monitor then. Cool.
post #454 of 513
Well i was'nt happy with teh tosh for films so got a lg 47lk950u, 3d films look loads better than the tosh as it has less blur due to response times.
This set has colourbug allso lol
post #455 of 513
I seem to have good news!
This is tested as working with a 47lk950u 100% everytime!
The old 42lw450u allso had this bug but it seemed to work when it wanted, i think i was forgetting a major factor as if i do not do it in sequence the bug does'nt work.
It's was reported by me and a few other users that every now and again the sharpness settings from a none " pc label " would be carried over when enabling a " pc label " giving 99% working zero lag interleaved 3d.

I have confirmed the following many times and will get a youtube video up tomoz proving this super bug, as it was possible on a lw450u it may be possible on any lg set.

For a nvidia card you will need a edid mod with zero extension bloc as this will clear the colour ghosting.
As amd reads lg's faulty edid? even worse than nvidia then you will not need a edid mod as you will only have the clear ghosting?



1) First change your isf expert and game sharpness setting in the none PC LABEL to clear the clear ghosting, i choose a label to my right wich is hd dvd (not game label ),

2) start your 3d game so you can see the clear ghosting dissapear, once this is done change back to PC LABEL!

3)Select GAME mode with AV button on tv controller!!!!!!!!!!

4) Press input on controller and select dvd hd or what ever is the next label from pc label, i choose a none game label, use a label directly next to pc label!

5)Press menu on tv controller and goto display setings or what ever it's acalled for you and select your pre made isf expert setting, NOTICE the clear ghosting dissapear.

6) Press exit on controller

7) Press input and change back to pc label, should be one press of left or right , NOTICE if you are lucky you are now have a lesser lag pc label and clear ghosting is cleared up 99% making games 100% playable

I've turned the tv on and off many times, this method of exact button presses creates a carry over of settings bug or something along those lines.
post #456 of 513
As promised here is the video of the fix for pc label and interleaved
lg 3dtv clear interleaved 3d fix for pc label - YouTube
post #457 of 513
Anyone with the US version 65 inch LG 65LW6500? I have never seen any improvement with changing sharpness values, so unless I am not understanding Butmunch's fix correctly I won't see any improvement. I can eliminate my ghosting down to nothing by just standing up and being at a higher angle to my TV. Interleave on this set just puts the viewing angle at a higher upward angle. This makes me think these ghosting bugs are from multiple different problems depending on which set you have. Opinions? I'm not gaming on my LG anymore cause I switched to my 3d acer but it would be nice to have this TV working 100% so I could play games on it sometime.

What I would like to know is if anyone can totally eliminate their ghosting in interleaved by just looking at the TV at a higher angle? If no one else notices this then the 65LW6500 has a different problem.
post #458 of 513
Thread Starter 
That is interesting, I wanted to show you guys Panasonic has now decided to enter into the passive market too. And they have a 65 inch incoming too.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...assive-3d-lcd/



I'm going to try those sequences you sent out butmuncher. Quisp, I am going to post in the 6500 thread and see if anyone wants to be a volunteer.
post #459 of 513
I wonder who is manufacturing Panasonic's passive panel? Is it still the LG side that is manufacturing this panel, or are we going to get to see a passive designed by a totally different company? Will be interesting to see if there are improvements to the technology if another group of people are designing these panels.

Skyguy or buttmunch... you guys don't notice total elimination of the problem by putting yourself at a higher angle? If not, then it does look like my LG 65LW6500 has a different problem than yours.
post #460 of 513
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I just went in to see if the ghosting on my end would help by viewing it from above. No, it looks worst but specifically my problem is with grey ghosting and the 2 items that help with this is viewing the image at eye level between the upper and lower bezel of the TV panel and also using the sharpness control to remove that grey ghosting for line-interleaved mode. For the regular frame-packing mode, this is not even necesssary as you know.

For color ghosting in interleaved, I stopped having this problem when LG fixed this in a firmware update during the summer. Only problem is, checkerboard still has major color ghosting and nothing has fixed this as of yet.

The key items buttmuncher mentioned to fix ghosting sounds interesting, but I'm also interested if this method can be applied to checkerboard in some way. The reason is, I found out how to carry over sharpness from PC mode at 36 and move that value over to checkerboard to fix greyscale ghosting. But this was only a half way fix. The next workaround for color ghosting was changing the color setting down all the way to 25 from 60 at Standard preset but that doesn't make the picture look good. I would put it at ok only.

*hint*Can you carry over Trumotion and its problems over into checkerboard using these sequences.*hint*

Also about that passive Panasonic tv, apparently the larger size tv is at 55 inches, not 65. It seems like from what I've seen with the different manufacturers have customizations in their video processing units and this is the part that can affect how the quality of line-interleaved can be usable. If they improve on the quality of the sets that 3d users need such as the ghosting and lag input issues, then they will have a better chance for 3d gamers to buy their tvs.

Also, no checkerboard options exist on any 3d panasonic right? So no checkerboard passive functionality for that tv will happen then.
post #461 of 513
I have a PHILIPS 32PFL7606 , the only 3dtv i have now!
No colourbug, no lag, picture is miles better than toshiba or lg, its in a league of its own.
I'm super happy guys, my 3d 1080p gaming never looked so pin sharp and crisp.
post #462 of 513
If i stood up with teh lg i lost 3d as i was out of the 3d viewing angle,.
I can confirm the following though
All sets i've had that dont have the colourbug only have hdmi 1.4, sbs and o/u for their 3d options and have allso had the same edid, edid states tv is not 3d like lg's edid that says it has different 3d options in its edid.

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
CEC physical address..... 1.0.0.0
Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. No
Supports 48bpp........... No
Supports 36bpp........... Yes
Supports 30bpp........... Yes
Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... Yes
Supports dual-link DVI... No
Maximum TMDS clock....... 225MHz
Video latency (p)........ 91ms
Audio latency (p)........ 91ms
Audio/video latency (i).. n/a
HDMI video capabilities.. Yes
EDID screen size......... No additional info
3D formats supported..... Not supported
post #463 of 513
Howdy folks

Just thought I'd chime in with a bit of info. I use a DVI-to-HDMI adapter and read that the EDID info is sent through pins 6 & 7 of the DVI plug, so seeing as I had two of these adapters I figured one could be sacrificed for experimentation.

I removed pin 7 with the hopes that the EDID from the tv would not be found and Windows would be forced to use the data from the modified INF. Unfortunately, after removing the pin the screen no longer received a signal - I believe this is due to the graphics card not detecting the EDID and so believing there is no display attached.

Oh well

Another option that will probably have more success is for people using VGA - you can remove pin 12 on the VGA side of a DVI-to-VGA adapter and this should stop the EDID from passing to the graphics card. Windows should detect it as a non-PnP monitor, at which point you would update the display driver with your modified INF that has the extension block removed. If anyone has a couple of spare DVI-to-VGA adapters lying around that they don't mind wrecking then it would be interesting to hear the results of this.

The reason for trying these options is because Butmuncher has reported successful images with HDMI 1.3 displays, and although I've tried using a modified INF I'm not convinced that Windows 7 64-bit in combination with a nVidia graphics card is actually using the data from the INF - I believe they're still using the EDID passed from the tv. I've read that you can force a different EDID using ATI software but not with nVidia, so the only way to be sure is to stop the EDID getting through. I think using VGA should work as it shouldn't require an EDID to function (otherwise older generic CRTs wouldn't work).

Anyway, I'd be interested to read if anyone tries it, maybe I'll have a root around for some VGA adapters and give it a go. BTW, it was a bitch removing the pin from the DVI adapter, but if you've got needle-nose plyers with a good grip you should be able to yank them out cleanly.

Cheers
post #464 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodalive View Post

Howdy folks

Just thought I'd chime in with a bit of info. I use a DVI-to-HDMI adapter and read that the EDID info is sent through pins 6 & 7 of the DVI plug, so seeing as I had two of these adapters I figured one could be sacrificed for experimentation.

I removed pin 7 with the hopes that the EDID from the tv would not be found and Windows would be forced to use the data from the modified INF. Unfortunately, after removing the pin the screen no longer received a signal - I believe this is due to the graphics card not detecting the EDID and so believing there is no display attached.

Oh well

Another option that will probably have more success is for people using VGA - you can remove pin 12 on the VGA side of a DVI-to-VGA adapter and this should stop the EDID from passing to the graphics card. Windows should detect it as a non-PnP monitor, at which point you would update the display driver with your modified INF that has the extension block removed. If anyone has a couple of spare DVI-to-VGA adapters lying around that they don't mind wrecking then it would be interesting to hear the results of this.

The reason for trying these options is because Butmuncher has reported successful images with HDMI 1.3 displays, and although I've tried using a modified INF I'm not convinced that Windows 7 64-bit in combination with a nVidia graphics card is actually using the data from the INF - I believe they're still using the EDID passed from the tv. I've read that you can force a different EDID using ATI software but not with nVidia, so the only way to be sure is to stop the EDID getting through. I think using VGA should work as it shouldn't require an EDID to function (otherwise older generic CRTs wouldn't work).

Anyway, I'd be interested to read if anyone tries it, maybe I'll have a root around for some VGA adapters and give it a go. BTW, it was a bitch removing the pin from the DVI adapter, but if you've got needle-nose plyers with a good grip you should be able to yank them out cleanly.

Cheers

Hi ,
I tried removing pin from, hdmi, vga and dvi, all that happens is teh tv see's no connection on it's input, selecting the input does bring the connection onto display though but issue's are still there. :
Allso tried, xp.vista and windows 7, xp reads teh edids correctly but the problems are still there.
post #465 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butmuncher View Post

I have a PHILIPS 32PFL7606 , the only 3dtv i have now!
No colourbug, no lag, picture is miles better than toshiba or lg, its in a league of its own.
I'm super happy guys, my 3d 1080p gaming never looked so pin sharp and crisp.

How could you get that TV that early? It's just announced.
post #466 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodi View Post

How could you get that TV that early? It's just announced.

Internet sarcasm? lol
It's been out for awhile, i'm in the euro zone

Just another note.
I've now had 3 passive sets with no colourbug, all 3 sets can be made to have a bug that resembles the colourbug by activating motion settings, dno what it means but hey it's been noticed 3 times .
So we have seen 100% working interleaved images go faulty with motion settings and picture scaling.
I wonder if will ever know the extent of what lg's issues are?
post #467 of 513
Thread Starter 
I was calling to see if they carried that tv locally but that brand doesn't seem to be available here at all. So this tv has even less lag than the Toshiba Natural 3D? I wonder how Panasonic will do for 2012 with their version. Does the Philips have a motion plus and does it also cause the same problems on that tv too?
post #468 of 513
Thread Starter 
I was just checking the specs on my Radeon 5870, it uses the 1.3 HDMI chipset.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...verview.aspx#2
The Radeon 6970 uses the 1.4a
http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...verview.aspx#2
And the Radeon 7970 uses the 3GHz 1.4a
http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...on-7970.aspx#3
post #469 of 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post

I was just checking the specs on my Radeon 5870, it uses the 1.3 HDMI chipset.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...verview.aspx#2
The Radeon 6970 uses the 1.4a
http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...verview.aspx#2
And the Radeon 7970 uses the 3GHz 1.4a
http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...on-7970.aspx#3

The phillips is a bag of rubbish!
Black screens and buggy firmware, no motion settings in 3d creates juddery 3d films.
A few other things are wrong with it like the price!
Saying that though it's awsome for interleaved 3d gaming as it really does look crisp in 3d on 32" screen


I was wondering Skyguy3d, did you allways have that amd card or did you have a nvidia card summer just gone?

I done an encode of transformers last night from 24p to 60hz and it actually looks quite good, alot better than any of the realtime software i used yesterday, and it does look like motion plus is on so my 3d films are no longer juddery.
I'm not spending 9 hours doing this to every film though, gotta find the perfect realtime interpolation scripts and apps.
post #470 of 513
Read the whole thread, really impressed with it. Got more about 3DTV than anywhere else.

I'm planning on purchasing 3DTV for gaming this week.
I'm definitively for passive 3DTV.
My GPU is ATI 6850.

My dilemma is should i go with Butmuncher recomendation (Toshiba 42VL863G), or should i just go for cheaper model (around 300€ less) LG 42LW5590 and hope that LG will solve ghosting/lag problem.
Did anyone tried Toshiba model on ATI?
post #471 of 513
Thread Starter 
I've always been using the Radeon 5870 on the LG TV, it is strange I get lots of ghosting when I use any refresh rate that is different from 60 Hz though for Interleave. You can read it about it here
http://forum.iz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=5760

Well, it's funny because I saw a AOC 23 inch Passive FPR monitor for $249, I believe it was 50 to 100 dollars lower than any other place but I will have to find out that model number again. Still, for 249 bucks shipping is 20, its the best deal I saw for a small monitor with passive. Since passive 3D is so easy to work with if you know the ins and outs, as long as the 3D is up to par, I would think that monitor would be a good secondary 3D monitor for me because it will work with AMD/nvidia.

Another round of news I heard was the Toshiba FPR smaller TVs were getting clearance prices from Walmart inventory so that would be a good purchase too.

The prices I saw were US region.

Got to hand it to Butmuncher to weed out all the Passive 3D tech, those manufacturers should know that consumers now a days have the knowledge to know what is working correctly or not even if the tech has only reached the consumer more or less recently. I would never have gotten passive FPR if it wasn't for LGs major push for their passive 3D initiative and may have went to shutter glasses because I couldn't feel the 3D immersion factor with the smaller 3D monitors and needed an upgrade for the larger size.
post #472 of 513
Thread Starter 
Here, I found this one for 249 AOC 23 inch FPR free Tridef
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AOC+-+23...2023&cp=1&lp=1
post #473 of 513
I know this is the wrong forum, but I have a similar issue. I own a 55lw5600 and for recorded 1080i tv shows, I see a lot of ghosting. I have already tried different cable, renaming input, etc. I was wondering if I can so some sort of EDID hack to solve this TV ghosting problem.

I am way past return date and sure can use the help.
post #474 of 513
Thread Starter 
What kind of shows do you have problems in, are they regular 2D shows? If so it maybe due to Trumotion interpolation. Most of the ghosting problems in this thread are about 3D generated ghosting or crosstalk between the left and right eyes when using the passive 3D glasses.

This is a wild guess but it could be due to the audio and video not synching correctly for 2D sources. One question I have for you is does this ghosting only show up in LG TV DLNA Mediaplex or also when using a player like Media Classic Home cinema to play those files?
post #475 of 513
So, LG still don't correct this colorbug problem?
I just want to buy one 42LW4500 for gaming with 3d vision.
Should i buy something else, or will i have some chance
with new edid to play games in ghostfree interleaved mode?

thx
post #476 of 513
Thread Starter 
Hello,

With my 55LW5600 and a Radeon 5870 I was able to fix most of the ghosting with sharpness. With tvs that are outside USA, sharpness was locked in PC mode so butmuncher showed a way to get sharpness to carry over to fix this specifically. Color ghosting in line-interleaved was specific to nvidia EDID's and those users modified the EDID to remove that problem. For the checkerboard colorghosting, it is still there and no fix has been found as of yet because this problem is built into LG's 3D processing that would need their input to fix it for every LG checkerboard tv from plasma tvs to passive tvs.
post #477 of 513
Thanks, i'm i Europe

So butmucher's trick may work and may not work?
I like to go sure, and don't spend money for stuff
what's not good for my needs.

If i don't want to use checkerboard input, then my chance
for ghostfree picture is big?

thanks
post #478 of 513
For me it is all my HTPC (windows 7 MC) recordings and divx/xvid files. I have all extra processing turned off, including trumotion. I have zero issues with audio/video syncing.

Since I wrote that post, I have found a calibration setting that uses gamma of 1.9 and sharpness of 55. And so far, even though the problem is there but I feel it is tolerable.

I was hoping by telling my HTPC that it is connected to a 120hz display, it would allow me to send 120hz signal via display settings. From my reading however, it seems hdmi bandwidth does not support for that, only display port can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post

What kind of shows do you have problems in, are they regular 2D shows? If so it maybe due to Trumotion interpolation. Most of the ghosting problems in this thread are about 3D generated ghosting or crosstalk between the left and right eyes when using the passive 3D glasses.

This is a wild guess but it could be due to the audio and video not synching correctly for 2D sources. One question I have for you is does this ghosting only show up in LG TV DLNA Mediaplex or also when using a player like Media Classic Home cinema to play those files?


LL
post #479 of 513
Thread Starter 
oneonefive,

Can you fix it when switching to PC label on the remote and back to whatever input you are originally using to Game, HD-DVD etc. It is one of the ways to recalibrate the video processing unit of the tv whenever you switch your input from PC and back that may help with the ghosting. You are just changing the labels back and forth, not switching inputs to do this.

relaxman,

You can try it, just make sure you have a good return policy. I would rather get the Toshiba for the best lag input and just knowing that I do not need to use any EDID block extension removal on that tv.

Does anyone else with a AMD Radeon card see the color ghosting in interleaved? I think it only affects Nvidia video cards because I also see this specific to the Moninfo program, I get access restricted when launching the software to read the EDID. I have to use the phoenix EDID program to read it first and then I can create an inf using Moninfo next.
post #480 of 513
skyuy3d, yup, tried that. At this point I am going to enjoy the tv as is for a few months, then put it up for sale on CL and get me one of the new panasonic 360hz led tv. Also, just today I tried a ATI 6570 dedicated card to see if that would help, and the answer is no.
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