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Is this ok to do?

post #1 of 23
6/27/11 at 2:49pm
Thread Starter 
So awhile back I was asking about using my two main fronts with my tube amp I have and the rest of my speakers with my receiver. I was told I needed a receiver with preamp outs (which I don't have) in order to do this.Well I have a tube preamp and poweramp so I plugged my pre into the audio outs of my receiver and then to the poweramp. The sound now comes out the main fronts through the pre/power tube amps and the receiver uses the sub/center/rear speakers. Is this ok to do?
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post #2 of 23
6/27/11 at 4:17pm
Man you are confused. If your receiver doesn't have pre-outs, how are you connecting the pre-amp???
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post #3 of 23
6/27/11 at 4:46pm
I am a bit confused as to what the hookup looks like too.

Sounds like receiver -> tube pre amp -> power amp. Not sure why someone would do that though? And if you don't have pre outs on your receiver, what audio outs are you using?
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post #4 of 23
6/29/11 at 11:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I am a bit confused as to what the hookup looks like too.

Sounds like receiver -> tube pre amp -> power amp. Not sure why someone would do that though? And if you don't have pre outs on your receiver, what audio outs are you using?

I have it setup so i can have the main fronts using the tube amp so if I am listening to music i can use that and then for movies I have the tube amp controlling the fronts and the receiver only effects the center/rear/sub. If I use the volume on the receiver nothing changes with the fronts but my tube preamp volume changes the volume so seems like it is just using the tube amps. And I will check out the connection when I get home from work and post back.

here is my receiver (came in a HTIB) and I am pretty sure I am just using the "audio out" http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio...64/?mode=model
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post #5 of 23
6/29/11 at 12:35pm
I know of no jack called 'Audio out', sorry.
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post #6 of 23
6/29/11 at 1:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I know of no jack called 'Audio out', sorry.

on the picture of the back of the receiver you will see it there. It is just called audio out.

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-HTR-306.../dp/B003CP0KFU
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post #7 of 23
6/29/11 at 1:26pm
I presume the "audio out" is "attached" to whatever is actually playing. So it spits out either Audio 1 or Audio 2.

It (should be) line out. So yes, you can run that out to another pre-amp(or amp).

If you are feeding a pre-amp into Audio 1 or Audio 2...then you are making a volume adjustment that the "Audio out" is simply relaying to an amp.(granted I haven't re-read your post, cause I was confused on what you did...and didn't want to comment till I knew ALL of the equipment involved).

Now, you could also be running this audio out to a pre-amp, then onto an amp(really won't make any difference which way you've done this, as long as a pre-amp is involved somewhere)

Basically, what you've done is (sorta) create your own 2nd zone...

Edit:
I did just re-read the post and I still can't make heads or tails out of what you've done...

To use that "audio out" to an amp, you must have the pre-amp somewhere.

This scenario could work(although I am SURE it isn't notated in the manual ANYWHERE.

You are playing a source. You feed the source out the "audio out" which feed the pre-amp. The pre-amp runs the tube amp. "Somehow" the receiver isn't "frying itself" because you have nothing connected to the front channel(frying itself is a harsh term).
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post #8 of 23
6/29/11 at 2:17pm
The problem is you are sending all audio out to the preamp(all channels). You only want to send the front channels to preamp but your receiver wont let you do that. This means what should be going to the center channel is going to the center channel and the fronts. Same for the surrounds.
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post #9 of 23
6/29/11 at 2:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

I presume the "audio out" is "attached" to whatever is actually playing. So it spits out either Audio 1 or Audio 2.

It (should be) line out. So yes, you can run that out to another pre-amp(or amp).

If you are feeding a pre-amp into Audio 1 or Audio 2...then you are making a volume adjustment that the "Audio out" is simply relaying to an amp.(granted I haven't re-read your post, cause I was confused on what you did...and didn't want to comment till I knew ALL of the equipment involved).

Now, you could also be running this audio out to a pre-amp, then onto an amp(really won't make any difference which way you've done this, as long as a pre-amp is involved somewhere)

Basically, what you've done is (sorta) create your own 2nd zone...

Edit:
I did just re-read the post and I still can't make heads or tails out of what you've done...

To use that "audio out" to an amp, you must have the pre-amp somewhere.

This scenario could work(although I am SURE it isn't notated in the manual ANYWHERE.

You are playing a source. You feed the source out the "audio out" which feed the pre-amp. The pre-amp runs the tube amp. "Somehow" the receiver isn't "frying itself" because you have nothing connected to the front channel(frying itself is a harsh term).

ok... I am setting it up audio out>preamp>poweramp> fronts
So am I running the chance of frying my receiver? Is there a better way to do this?
I have only tried it with my iphone plugged into the receiver and have not yet tried with say my 360 which is plugged in via hdmi. Will it still work?
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post #10 of 23
6/29/11 at 2:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

The problem is you are sending all audio out to the preamp(all channels). You only want to send the front channels to preamp but your receiver wont let you do that. This means what should be going to the center channel is going to the center channel and the fronts. Same for the surrounds.

Oh hmm did not know that. What about the bass (below 80hz) is that still just going to the sub?
And how would I set it up to only have the fronts go to the preamp? If this is even possible with my receiver
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post #11 of 23
6/29/11 at 2:52pm
The bass is going to the sub and the fronts because you are sending the full signal to the preamp. That receiver doesn't have preamp outputs so you really need a new receiver but some have suggested line to preamp converters to use for receivers that don't have preamp outputs.
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post #12 of 23
6/29/11 at 3:05pm
To answer your HDMI question...

No the "audio out" won't send an incoming HDMI signal. So it will only work with your Iphone.

What I suggest...

Removing the link between the Yamaha and the pre-amp, and just connect the Iphone to the pre-amp(doing what you are doing is just adding connections).

If you want to listen to the 360, I have no idea if the 360 can send HDMI audio and analog audio at the same time. Either way, leave it HDMI to the Yamaha, analog to this pre-amp.

What you are doing (essentially) is like what "we used to do" in the old days when front inputs were "new", and predominantly only VCR's had them...


Camcoder > VCR > AVR > TV (same thing you've done here)

You could do all this, if you wanted to...

record player > Cassette Deck > VCR > CD-R > EQ > pre-amp > amp (although it would be really stupid to do it that way)
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post #13 of 23
6/29/11 at 3:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

The bass is going to the sub and the fronts because you are sending the full signal to the preamp. That receiver doesn't have preamp outputs so you really need a new receiver but some have suggested line to preamp converters to use for receivers that don't have preamp outputs.

Well If I have preamp outs then I would only need (or be able to use) the tube poweramp right? Now here is why I am even doing this and if you know the easiest/best solution please let me know!
I only have one set of nice speakers so I want to use the receiver (either this one or one I buy) for movies in all 5 speakers and then I want to easily be able to switch to the tube amp to play music and be connected to the same front speakers.
Any ideas?
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post #14 of 23
6/29/11 at 3:17pm
What you need is a receiver with a "zone 2" option.

Now Zone 2 "pre-out" is not always variable.

So...buy a 2nd zone receiver(read some manuals) and attach the tube amp to the 2nd zone pre-out.

Keeping in mind...

2nd zone is ANALOG ONLY. HDMI is not involved in this, unless you buy one of THESE SPECIFIC receivers...

Yamaha RX-A2000/3000, maybe the 1000(I'm not even sure if digital can leave an analog pre-out on these)
Denon 3311/12/4311

And, those are your 5(6 maybe) to choose from.

As far a "variable Zone 2 pre-out", I think that rules out Onkyo/Integra.

However, you have a MUCH BROADER selection of receivers if you treat the receiver as a "source" like your Iphone. Connect the pre-out to the pre-amp. But, that almost defeats the entire purpose.
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post #15 of 23
6/29/11 at 3:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

What you need is a receiver with a "zone 2" option.

Now Zone 2 "pre-out" is not always variable.

So...buy a 2nd zone receiver(read some manuals) and attach the tube amp to the 2nd zone pre-out.

Keeping in mind...

2nd zone is ANALOG ONLY. HDMI is not involved in this, unless you buy one of THESE SPECIFIC receivers...

Yamaha RX-A2000/3000, maybe the 1000(I'm not even sure if digital can leave an analog pre-out on these)
Denon 3311/12/4311

And, those are your 5(6 maybe) to choose from.

As far a "variable Zone 2 pre-out", I think that rules out Onkyo/Integra.

However, you have a MUCH BROADER selection of receivers if you treat the receiver as a "source" like your Iphone. Connect the pre-out to the pre-amp. But, that almost defeats the entire purpose.

So If it has a zone 2 preout then am I really only able to use my tube poweramp and not preamp? And analog should be ok because I just want it for music however all my sources are digital so will I need a DAC or will it use the receivers DAC?

Edit: And also how will the fronts be connected to both the tube amp and receiver?
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post #16 of 23
6/29/11 at 3:51pm
The tube amp will have its own separate pair of speakers from 5.1.

IF, what you really are attempting to do is run HT with a Tube amp...that is not going to get you very far...in which case you need a receiver with pre-outs(for all channels).

Back to the drawing board...

Are you trying to run 5.1, with the fronts running off a tube amp?

OR

Are you wanting the tube amp to run a dedicated pair of speakers...separate from the 5.1?

By the way, You "can't" do both...
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post #17 of 23
6/29/11 at 5:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

The tube amp will have its own separate pair of speakers from 5.1.

IF, what you really are attempting to do is run HT with a Tube amp...that is not going to get you very far...in which case you need a receiver with pre-outs(for all channels).

Back to the drawing board...

Are you trying to run 5.1, with the fronts running off a tube amp?

OR

Are you wanting the tube amp to run a dedicated pair of speakers...separate from the 5.1?

By the way, You "can't" do both...

All I want to do is have the SAME front two speakers be connected to my tube amp for music as well as my receiver for HT. I do not care if the HT uses my tube amp for the fronts. Does this make sense? Is it possible? I can't be the only one to have ever wanted to do this...
I just figured that the only way to do this was to have the tube amp run the front speakers and the receiver the rest, but this would not be optimal?
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post #18 of 23
6/29/11 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by undersinjake View Post

So If it has a zone 2 preout then am I really only able to use my tube poweramp and not preamp? And analog should be ok because I just want it for music however all my sources are digital so will I need a DAC or will it use the receivers DAC?

Edit: And also how will the fronts be connected to both the tube amp and receiver?

You don't need a 2 zone receiver to do what you are trying to do. To continue using your fronts with the preamp/amp you need either a receiver with preamp outputs like the Yamaha 667 or 867. The other option is to keep what you have and add a line to preamp converter. The 3rd option is to skip the tube amp and just run all your speakers off the receiver.
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post #19 of 23
6/29/11 at 5:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

You don't need a 2 zone receiver to do what you are trying to do. To continue using your fronts with the preamp/amp you need either a receiver with preamp outputs like the Yamaha 667 or 867. The other option is to keep what you have and add a line to preamp converter. The 3rd option is to skip the tube amp and just run all your speakers off the receiver.

I don't want to skip the tube amp because I like it for music however want to use the same fronts for both music and HT. WOuld you not recommend using the tube amp for the fronts for ht? If that is fine then i can just easily plug the preouts to the tube amp and use that and switch off the other speakers when listening to music. The best option I would think though would to some how switch the same front speakers between just the tube amp for music and the receiver only for HT.
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post #20 of 23
6/29/11 at 5:24pm
It’s not possible without another set of front speakers. You either have to use the fronts with the tube amp for ht and music or without the tube amp for ht and music. I'm not sure if the tube amp would be bad to use for home theater or not. I would say to try HT with and without the tube amp and see if it sounds ok to you.
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post #21 of 23
6/29/11 at 6:47pm
The ONLY way you might get this to work(and this is a stretch, and try it at your own peril, including the peril of the amps involved and speakers)...

Use a speaker switch box BACKWARDS. But, If you fry something, or even worse, cause a fire...you were warned.
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post #22 of 23
6/29/11 at 10:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

The ONLY way you might get this to work(and this is a stretch, and try it at your own peril, including the peril of the amps involved and speakers)...

Use a speaker switch box BACKWARDS. But, If you fry something, or even worse, cause a fire...you were warned.

ha i dont think I'll try it

So just an a/b type amp switcher wouldn't work? they make them for guitar amps to use the same speaker cabinet with two different amps.
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post #23 of 23
6/30/11 at 4:48am
What I think people have done in your situation is to buy a pre amp with something like HT bypass. But your tube amp does not seem to have that.

Anyway, if it's working for you, I guess all is well. Just a bit convoluted in my mind. And may only work for internal sources like the tuner or analog stereo sources.
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