WMC ecosystem is finally complete, where are the extenders?

With the release of the Ceton (wide availability) and Windows 7, we finally have a really complete solution for the "vision" of MC extenders laid out 5+ years ago. However, today the ecosystem looks almost dead; there are almost no 3rd party extenders still available, and the XB360 (after getting the much needed update to play MKV) seems to have stalled as well.

I don't really get it. If there was a MC Extender released for 150-200 dollars tomorrow that had "WDTV Live" level of media support, no HDD, fast boot, and low heat, I'd buy 4 of them in a heartbeat.

Any idea why the extenders seem to have died? The XB360 is a decent device, but it's media compatibility is just awful (no BD MKVs! Come on!), it's slow to start up, it's hot and noisy.. If someone gave us an extender with excellent media support, I'd have to believe that most/all of us would be all over it.

The biggest hurdle in the beginning was "no Cablecard" but now that's not longer an issue. The current is so close to perfect, I just don't understand why we don't see the final push (the extender, or, alternatively, a "softsled" extender that we can run on a general purpose PC).

"And if I were a manufacturer, I would have been discouraged if I put a device a few years ago. Extenders weren't realized for there potential back then. But man I would love to get some 100-200 dollar extenders that could play back live tv and all my media... "

It almost has to be a licensing issue (at least to some degree). How hard could it be for a WDTV Live (just as an example) to integrate MC functionality into the device?

My main requirements would be; instant boot, and tons of file format compatibility. There are about 100 products on the market that fit those requirements, unfortunately, not a single one can function as a MC extender.

MSFT dropped to ball (to some degree), but the real pain here was because of the Cablecards; until the Ceton, there was nothing that most of us could get/do to move those channels into the PC realm. If the Ceton's released the same time as the MC extenders (instead of 4 years later), I think the market would be very different today.

gtgray,

Yup, what if's and "almosts" are the story of my configuration. 7MC with XB360s are very close to perfect for me, but their lack of robust media support is very annoying (and their sensitivity to any issues in the media file is also maddening). An XB360 (for live TV) and a computer (for MKV files and movies) would be "perfect", but it's such a PITA to keep it running (and I don't really want to have computers at every TV running all the time). And, of course, much of what the Ceton records can only be played on the XB360, so that's a problem as well.

I'm happy with what I've got, that's for sure. It's very functional, it incredibly good looking (thanks to MediaBrowser, WOW the interface is just amazing) and it's pretty easy to use. But the XB360 is "sensitive" and I have to have a crazy configuration on the computer to allow it to stream just a small subset of files. If MSFT released a patch tomorrow that allowed it to natively stream (like a WD Live, for example) most formats I'd be 99% on the way to nirvana.

I know what you're saying. But the "final big step" is an extender with wide media format support, that's not a huge leap. 5 years ago, we were all looking for an OEM cable card tuner; the extender market was nonexistent, and even WMC wasn't ready for prime time.

We're so close now, and very oddly, it seems that the interest has gone DOWN the closer we get to being actually able to achieve it. A single update for a XB360 (or a Sage type extender that works with 7MC, or a Soflsled for 7MC) would get us over the hump to the "ultimate" media center setup. Don't get me wrong, what I have right now is light years ahead of most (non AVS, some of you guys here have me beat quite handily) people's setups. But it's just got little nagging issues that are so technically easy to solve, but so far down on the developer's lists; I wonder if they will ever be resolved.

The industry wants us to all move to "streaming everything" which, IMHO, is a step backwards. Ripped DVD/BD delivered via MediaBrowser on a 7MC computer with a Ceton is light years ahead of garbage NFLX streaming interface to an XB360. Streaming will have a place (which will continue to get bigger), but, for the time being, the ultimate collection setup is based on 7MC with MediaBrowser. Use something to rip BDs in full quality, and then something to skip the commercials out of all your Ceton delivered HD content. Finally, throw in some RSS setup w/torrents to get the "ultimate DVR" configuration. Streaming has nothing on this type of configuration, and never really will (at least not anything except tablets).

CShaw,

On the first point, I totally agree. However, I'd add that the reason we're a small segment is, until the release of the Ceton, there wasn't really a great way to have a media center PC that could do everything most people wanted. Also, 7MC isn't a well marketed product. I can say honestly, every single person who's ever seen my setup and used it to watch anything has said exactly the same thing "This is awesome, how do I buy this". The demand is there for something like my (and probably your) configuration, it's just that there's no marketing or companies selling systems designed to function like this (telling someone to go to NewEgg and AVS forums.. I might as well tell them to fly to Mars and get a special rock, it's just not going to happen).

I agree on the content control angle. However, that's not really MSFTs (or Sage, or MediaBrowser... etc) problem. The content providers keep this "pay per watch" dream alive, and, as they do, the market continues to move away from them. If there's a way to break the protection (as their currently is on EVERY single media out there) people are going to break it and distribute it the way consumers want it. Most consumers don't know what they want (but I think I do, 1080P full resolution MKVs are really what the "distribution medium" should be; coupled with a service like NTFX that allows unlimited downloading), but they are pretty confident that cable TV where "Millionaire" starts at 8 and has 30 mins of commercials for 25 mins of programming isn't it!

I agree; 7MC has never gotten the following that was expected, and it wouldn't be shocked to see it disappear in the next version (or just become a legacy product, no longer updated).

I wonder if the movie companies are going to see the same thing happen that the music companies did? Be so hard headed that people become more comfortable stealing your content than actually buying it? Apple has helped, but there's an entire generation of folks who equate music with "an MP3" and have no concept of paying for music. It's a different issue, but, as you point out, it's probably linked to the reason we don't see the "perfect extender" out in the market.

I wish a little boutique shop (Ceton, for example) would pop up and release a new extender; I think that's our only hope for getting the perfect configuration anymore.

AFAIK, none of the extenders have "good" media compatability. The XB360 works fine as a live TV (and recorded TV) extender, it's the MKV files (specifically BD rips) that it totally takes a cr*p on.

CShaw has the best possible configuration right now, a small HTPC at each viewing location and an XB360 (to do all the LiveTV and RecordedTV).

Stinks that's the best we have to offer right now. Even 2 devices (like a WDTV Live and XB360) would be better than a full blown computer at each location. I hate maintaining W7, anything that reduces/eliminates that need would be much appreciated!

"I don't understand all this "kvetching" yes, I said "kvetching""

LOL.

Well, maybe I'm just not using the right extenders! Here's a list of my requirements, is there something out there that can do this (that maybe I don't know about?):

Function as a 7MC extender (live TV, MediaBrowser interface, etc)?
Playback a wide variety of media files (720P/1080P MKVs with HD audio being the big ones for me)
Boot fast (<10 seconds from power on until welcome screen to Media Center)

Really doesn't seem like a big list. The XB360 hits the first requirement, but falls apart on media compatibility (and stability; lots of 720P MKVs will break on the 360, but play fine a real computer). The 3rd requirement is a "nice to have", but would really be great if it's doable.

Yeah, if 7MC would act as an extender (softsled), I think most of the complaining would stop. It's that you need a full feature PC AND an XB360 at each location to have "perfect" compatibility that really annoys people. Ceton network tuners helps the situation (at least you can have LiveTV at each location), but still no joy on the RecordedTV problem.

The perfect solution is an extender with "MPC-HC" level media playback capabilities (basically, internal filters for everything you throw at it). Which seems really really easy to achieve, there's about 100 products on the market right now (at 100 bucks or less) that can play back just about every media file in existence. Just not a single one of them that can function as an extender.

Softsled would actually be my "2nd best" choice. First choice would be an update from MSFT that gives the XB360 good media compatibility. That's the "one leg" that's really broken on the table right now. If the XB could play most/all media files, I think most would agree "It's pretty close to perfect". The problem is; the XB is missing some REALLY BIG things when it comes to media playback. It can't playback any kind of BD rip (without a downconversion, which, for me (and most, I'd assume) is unacceptable). It doesn't do anything with HD audio. It's MP3 playback is "adequate" at best (has trouble with some VBR formats that are encoded too high).

I'd be happy to buy 360s for every TV (truth be told, that's what I've got now). But they need to get solid media format support to make the "ecosystem" complete. This "90s" media support on a device that's a capable computer is laughable. Port MPC-HC and ffdshow to the XB360 and we've got a real solution here.

Also, the way that movie playback is handled with extenders doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The XB should connect to the 7MC computer for the interface, and then, when a file is selected, it should just play that file from the network location. Today is plays "through" the PC, which, although it works, it's kind of kludgy (and makes filter setup (like DivX Tech Preview, for example) a nightmare on the host PC). Just go to the share and open the file (like a WD-TV Live does it). But, hey, if they got better media support, I could care less HOW it plays it! _