or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › D-cinema Equipment and Theaters › "World Premiere 4K 3D DLP passive Stack"
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"World Premiere 4K 3D DLP passive Stack" - Page 3

post #61 of 229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidoru View Post

I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that my projector didn't come with the DVI and HD-SDI input board, NEC said it is now an option, and by default they don't include it because most customers run external sources through HDMI inputs on IMBs, as I do with the Doremi.

I'm thinking that a macro command could turn the scaler off, just like it can switch from HDMI to Internal, but no one seems to know. I'll probably wait for the next software version, hopefully it comes with better documentation too.

As for DCI content... at least here in Italy, 4K movies are almost non-existent. Since April, we've managed to show only "Battle Los Angeles" from Sony, everything else after that has only been 2K. Ok, at this point there are only 11 4K projectors on our country (9 SXRDs, 2 DLPs) out of 800+ DCI screens, but it's still disappointing, considering that every one of them could play 4K DCPs anyway...

true cinema content:
2k in 2d
4k in 2d
2k in 3d
just works fine.
problem is all the rest as it seams that it was not 100% ready till now.

same for true 4k 2d cinema content yes only few movies are in 4k but you will see more and more true 4k content in the next 12 months.
post #62 of 229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monoko View Post

Sorry for jumping in...
Wolfgang, that´s an absolutly breathtaking installation or should i say "Der pure Wahnsinn"

You can and will beat out every commercial Cinema by far!

What i´m curious about is, how does the IMB deal with sources other than 24p
( i.e 50/60i Hz and higher)?
I can´t find any information about this at Barco´s website or spec-sheets. Maybe there is something in the manual.

Thank you and have fun with your "Supernovae"...
( Was sagt eigentlich der Strahlenschutz dazu? )

thanks!

i till today not try to feed interlace 50 and 60 hd signals but i will try.

i hope the pr. can deal with the new video standart consumer 3d format at
1920x1080 60i 3d as i record a lot at this moment with this cameras.

as far as i know the 2k series 2 can do that so the 4k should do that as well.
post #63 of 229
Thread Starter 
fine you like it norman..

here 2 pictures from yesterday night.

normen take a close look at the 4k imb board from doremi.



and yes its the highlight the new very close new first row at
0,8 times the screen in wide where you believe to be at the place
the picture was taken in true 4k 3d when the picture was made under top conditon.
btw. as the quality goes up a lot now i can see every mistake i did when i takes the pictures
the optic companys have a definition what is sharp under different apertures
like for sample with apature 8 my 28mm Leica optic when i select 5 meter it will be sharp from 3.5 meter to infinity.
"thats just a sample"
now this rule is not anymore right as you can see with this set up fine
differences between it and may only 4 to 50 meter are real 100% in focus.
with my old setup i can see it but now i can.

that means that i have to improve the way i record my stills in 3d
a lot.
also no way to make jpg pictures anymore i will use in future only RAW data
process them and than makes the 3d processing.
post #64 of 229



Just frigging crazy! ...in a good way .


Art
post #65 of 229
What is the audio setup in that room ?
post #66 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

fine you like it...

and yes its the highlight the new very close new first row at
0,8 times the screen in wide where you believe to be at the place
the picture was taken in true 4k 3d when the picture was made under top conditon.

Sorry Wolfgang: As a kind of entrance to my post I've chosen the headline "Blinded by the Light" but I forgot completely to mention this point

When we came into the cinema all lights were on, door wide open, "ideal conditions" for a good projection and as soon as WM fired up the first pj I thought we will see something washed out, but as soon as Bonds face appeared I was struck by lightning. A fat good picture on the screen, bright like a flatscreen panel. The first visual WOW effect we had there. Then I thought when the lights are turned off the picture will be tooo bright or to speak very directly: Unwatchable.

Question to all readers here: What happened when the lights were turned off and how many footlamberts did we see?
post #67 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicksbass View Post

Sorry Wolfgang: As a kind of entrance to my post I've chosen the headline "Blinded by the Light" but I forgot completely to mention this point

When we came into the cinema all lights were on, door wide open, "ideal conditions" for a good projection and as soon as WM fired up the first pj I thought we will see something washed out, but as soon as Bonds face appeared I was struck by lightning. A fat good picture on the screen, bright like a flatscreen panel. The first visual WOW effect we had there. Then I thought when the lights are turned off the picture will be tooo bright or to speak very directly: Unwatchable.

Question to all readers here: What happened when the lights were turned off and how many footlamberts did we see?

Well...the nice thing about the human eye is that it has the most effective build in iris there is. So with 40+ ft/l and scenes with at least some bright elements your iris does its work - and the black level will seem very decent. Throw in a scene (make sure it is long enough for your eyes to adapt) with very low overall/max brightness and the blacks will get a very milky touch.

Nevertheless - this is an amazing setup and an accomplishment based on pure passion for HT. Kudos.
post #68 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Well...the nice thing about the human eye is that it has the most effective build in iris there is. So with 40+ ft/l and scenes with at least some bright elements your iris does its work - and the black level will seem very decent. Throw in a scene (make sure it is long enough for your eyes to adapt) with very low overall/max brightness and the blacks will get a very milky touch.

Nevertheless - this is an amazing setup and an accomplishment based on pure passion for HT. Kudos.

Thanks for your rating Lion, you are in the ballpark, but add 50% and you are there
Long story short: the picture looked fantastic and well belanced, so WM became unsecure himself and decided to take a measurement: We had 60fl (!) on the screen and we did not have the feeling that it was too bright. Crazy!

And black levels were still good. My colleague is used to the JVC blacks and he has much better eyes than me and he didn't get it, why the blacks were still apparent.
Another adventure of the third kind we were confronted with.
post #69 of 229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicksbass View Post

We had 60fl (!) on the screen and we did not have the feeling that it was too bright. Crazy!

And black levels were still good. My colleague is used to the JVC blacks and he has much better eyes than me and he didn't get it, why the blacks were still apparent.
Another adventure of the third kind we were confronted with.

thats how our eye/brain works.

its takes some time for the eye to open up the pupil apature when its longer expose to dark.
it from humen to humen different it can take 30 sec. or some min.

other when your pupil are open and a bright sequence comes.
we can close the pupil very fast (well below 1 sec).

but as the 60FTL (that the lowes i can do in 2d as the lamp is dimm
down to min. at around 4000 watt) show always something even at almost 100% black sky with some stars on the pupil
never open up completely.

when you watching a 100% dark test pattern for 5 min. yes thelion
is right but even there (i try it) it was a big surprise that it was not
that bad.

you have to see it to be believe it.

i have in my live one time a similar thing
when the first 3d tvs are out i buy a samsung 3d tv.

here at avs some people report that the use the motion function to
playback the 24p content at 60p.
i say always convert 24p to 60 will be never work as you will see a motion bug
and i was more that surprised that this function works just fine.
post #70 of 229
Thread Starter 
last few days the new pr. room was build.

they put double sound protection inside!

the company told me even with this design that is very unusual
in germany (we build normally all walls in stone very strong)
that the sound protection will be very good.
lets see........

also important will be how i will design the opening that i need
for the optic without any glass between the optic and the screen.








post #71 of 229
Sehr gut.
post #72 of 229
Absolutely incredible W.Mayer! You are a true 4K pioneer.
post #73 of 229
Thread Starter 



next will be the design for a opening in each panel for the light beam from the optic that it can hit the screen
"without" any port hole glass in between.
i did some measurments and it seems i found a good way
that not will increase the sound level to much even when i
drill a bigger hole into the each panel.

the only reson why this panel are there is when i sale some day
this pr. i can take it out from the front as the door and the room was to small
to do it and i not like to remove the whole sound prove walls and rebuild it.

as this 4k dlps from Barco are 100% modularly developed it will be
very unlikely that the whole pr. have to go back to the factory and need to
comes out but with this panels i was prepare for everything.


the right pr. panel was removed to show the pr. inside the sound prove walls.
post #74 of 229
Das ist fantastisch Herr Mayer.

I think a nice complement for your 4K system would be 4K computer monitors for working with material for the 4K. First 4K monitors with 36" diagonal @ 4096x2160 resolution will be available in November.
post #75 of 229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Das ist fantastisch Herr Mayer.

I think a nice complement for your 4K system would be 4K computer monitors for working with material for the 4K. First 4K monitors with 36" diagonal @ 4096x2160 resolution will be available in November.


Aber Ihre Nachricht ist ja auch fantastisch irkuck

YES......thats good news.....

any info about the price?

all 4k displays so far are very expensive you can almost by a half 4k cinema dlp for this price
post #76 of 229
OMG Wolfgang!

That is just breathtaking stuff! You are making a new reference point for everybody to try to reach to! Simply brilliant!
post #77 of 229
Yes he has. I am going to try a different 4k approach though. With single projector RealD, -look out for a joint press release with cineramax/reald.
post #78 of 229
Thread Starter 
seems it will be in the 25000 euro range!

http://www.slashcam.de/news/single/E...3601-9106.html

to expensive i will not buy it.

better wait for the consumer 4k tvs.

the ifa show next month in berlin will have some first samples i hope.
post #79 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

seems it will be in the 25000 euro range!
http://www.slashcam.de/news/single/E...3601-9106.html
to expensive i will not buy it.
better wait for the consumer 4k tvs.
the ifa show next month in berlin will have some first samples i hope.

This is introductory price, so it may get significantly lower after negotiating next year. On the other hand it seems 4K TVs which might be shown will be big and same price level.
post #80 of 229
Amazing WM....must be so exciting breaking new ground.

I just had a thought for blocking out the sound that comes through the booth from around the lens area.

A 30cm/12" x 75mm/3" thick foam doughnut that fits snugly over the lens, two teflon donughts 2mm thick of the same diameter, but the inner circle larger than the inner circle of the foam doughnut. One of the teflon donughts is laminated to the foam, the other too has a foam backing(but thinner with the inner hole the same diameter as the teflon doughnut's inner hole) and is glued to the booth wall/window where the lens pokes through.

The projector is moved forward so both teflon doughnut/circles mate flat with one another.

Think this should provide a very good sound barrier but still allow unimpaired focusing.
post #81 of 229
Thread Starter 
thanks for you proposal.

i design a tube that have 2 diameter one a bit bigger than the lens diameter and one bigger one.
as the lens from the pr.comes out a lot i use this space for the
length of this tube.
this tube i will add of the rear part of the sound protecting window and it will have a opening as big as the tube outside diameter will be.
this double wall tube will be fill up with some sound protecting material that kills the noise.

if it works good i will may publish a picture as i think no one understand what i describe above .

for true 4k content its a must to have a system that have no port hole glass
but even for 2k its a big difference.

if it works perfekt than i may need to see how to get a patent as the demand
will be big in future
post #82 of 229
Wo ist die einkaufswagen? I want one.
post #83 of 229
IM SO JEALOUS!!!

I would be happy with just one of those units!

maybe one day soon

Congrats on such an incredible setup!

I love to read your thread and look at all the pictures!
post #84 of 229
Thread Starter 
thanks for the nice words ccool96 but your cinema looks better than my one.

i design a black box that have some advantages about black level ansi and on off cr.but it looks not that good

thats a trade off i deside to do as i like nothing that can distract you during you view the movie.
post #85 of 229
Thread Starter 
after a long vacation and a business trip i am back to start work again
on my set up.

when open my mails i can see this huge news:
http://m.engadget.com/default/articl...sic&postPage=1

as some of the reader of this tread are more from the cinema business i post it here.

from all what i read i have the feeling that this first consumer 4k pr. can be for smaller screens
a good alternative to build a passive 4K 3D set up "IF" sony really can do 2000lumen with this unit.
also a huge question will be what max. frame rate "IN 4K" this pr. can take beside the 24p ...... 48 or even 60?

i am sure that other than all the reports say the sony can not do 4K in 3D nativ it can
only do 2K upscale to 4K in 3D.
it will be a huge surprise if i was wrong about that.

but this is good news even if a 4k lcos can not show the full 4k compare to a
4k dlp because of its lower mtf that drop a bit the visible high freq.

lcos have also some advantages over dlp in some areas and i looking forward to see
this first consumer 4k pr. and compare it to my 4k barco dlp.
post #86 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

after a long vacation and a business trip i am back to start work again
on my set up.

when open my mails i can see this huge news:
http://m.engadget.com/default/articl...sic&postPage=1

as some of the reader of this tread are more from the cinema business i post it here.

from all what i read i have the feeling that this first consumer 4k pr. can be for smaller screens
a good alternative to build a passive 4K 3D set up "IF" sony really can do 2000lumen with this unit.
also a huge question will be what max. frame rate "IN 4K" this pr. can take beside the 24p ...... 48 or even 60?

i am sure that other than all the reports say the sony can not do 4K in 3D nativ it can
only do 2K upscale to 4K in 3D.
it will be a huge surprise if i was wrong about that.

but this is good news even if a 4k lcos can not show the full 4k compare to a
4k dlp because of its lower mtf that drop a bit the visible high freq.

lcos have also some advantages over dlp in some areas and i looking forward to see
this first consumer 4k pr. and compare it to my 4k barco dlp.

I do not see this unit being able to do 4K 3D or high frame rate. It is a LCOS issue not a Sony issue. But again, I may be wrong.
post #87 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

lcos have also some advantages over dlp in some areas

Yes both technologies have some advantages over the other but regardless we are all having fun and lucky to have the technologies we do.
Not to pin ether technology against the other only as an enthusiast I am looking into the D-cinema Sony 4k to put next to my Barco to put through its paces.
I appreciate the 12bit platform, wider color gamut lack of processing to muck with our source d-cinema offers as well as the management software. Loads of fun that both HT content and enthusiast can benefit from.
post #88 of 229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mporlier View Post
I do not see this unit being able to do 4K 3D or high frame rate. It is a LCOS issue not a Sony issue. But again, I may be wrong.
yes i also think this first "4k lcos consumer pr."from sony will not offer 3d in native 4k and it will also not take more than 30p in 4k 2d.

i not understand what you mean by "its a lcos issue" as sony have a
lcos 4k that can display 4k in 2d at 60p since some years?
also the jvc lcos 4k pr. that barco sale as well also can do 4k in 2d at 60p
i think.

also the new lcos chips are fast enough to make shutter 3d and if they can
do it in 2x48p full hd 3d i see not any problem that they can do it later
at 4k as well.
to shutter it at 2x72hz like the dlps can do it without any ghosting is may
still to fast for lcos as you can see that lcos 3d pr. have much more
ghosting with 2x 60hz compare to 2x 48 hz.
thats the reason why they still use for film 3d bd content 2x 48hz and not
2x 72 hz.
problem some people complain about the flicker 2x 48 hz show and wish
2x 72hz that is flicker free.
post #89 of 229
And JVC has an LCoS imager that does higher than 24 frames per second in 2D at 8K!

Do we see the makings of an follow-up to the LX5...
post #90 of 229
Thread Starter 
http://www.film-tv-video.de/newsdeta...d47d3d084.html


seems 4K 3D video will be there soon!

but they max. they can do is 24p
sad.........
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: D-cinema Equipment and Theaters
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › D-cinema Equipment and Theaters › "World Premiere 4K 3D DLP passive Stack"