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Finally, After Eleven Years ! - Page 2

post #31 of 76
Do any DCI machines have a DI to help blacks?
post #32 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

It took an excuse like seeing his series 2 Barco DCI unit to do it but I finally met Alan Gouger for the first time. I certainly consider him a friend after what must be hours of phone conversations and all the emails over the years. It was great to find him to be just as nice and up front in person.

Art

Art, thanks for the great and detailed report and for giving us the chance to follow you on your adventure! Alan seems to be not only an enthusiast but also a perfectionist. His projection room looks very cool and the placement of the projector is done exactly in the way Arri has done it in their grading suite. Very, very good.

The noise is indeed an issue, you have to calculate with 65db in a 3ft distance to the projector. In the beginning less, may be 56db, mine raised the volume significant after ca. 12 months. Nontheless, I started several acoustic attempts and at the moment the noise is about 36 - 40db. As Wolfgang mentioned my joiner trys to build a kind of tube, acoustic damped to isolate lens and fans. I would say its possible to reach 30db or even lower.

The software control is fantastic, once you begin to use it and understand its logic it is easy to handle everything, it gives you the perfect feeling of control. Concerning support, I had a similar adventure. When my projector was installed some issues surfaced up and we needed fast informations. The guy provided all we needed within 30 minutes. Stunning!

But one of the best advantages is the relationship within the small Barco group. With Wolfgang's, odyssey's and Peter's help I was able to share lots of tricks and I received massive help and knowledge-transfer. Thank you guys!

I wish you all the best for your decision - its not easy. May be you will get barcoid too
post #33 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

This projector has many advantages ,some disadvantages as we are discussing here.

A projector like this seems to have nothing but advantages! I am also very tempted by the Barco, so I am hanging on every word you and Alan say. Art, what would be some of the disadvantages you experienced? (I mean picturewise, I get the size and noise issues)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

I am also still confused about what a DCI content is. I mean are they in a different format than blu ray? Do you buy them in market?

DCI content is the digital cinema file shown in a commercial movie theater, delivered via hard drive. The resolution is only slightly higher than bluray, but the color space is much stronger -- DCI also lacks the compression issues sometimes associated with bluray. DCI content is not generally available to the consumer.
post #34 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by reanimator View Post

DCI content is the digital cinema file shown in a commercial movie theater, delivered via hard drive. The resolution is only slightly higher than bluray, but the color space is much stronger -- DCI also lacks the compression issues sometimes associated with bluray. DCI content is not generally available to the consumer.

If it is not available to consumers, then how do you get it?
post #35 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

If it is not available to consumers, then how do you get it?

begg, steal and borrow
post #36 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

I thought you were really pleased with your projector. Didn't you used to have lots of back and forth on virtues of DCI vs. your set up with Peter in the past. What made you change your mind? Please correct me if I am misrepresenting your position, just talking out of recall.

No you are accurate. The projector I have has better sequential contrast over the DCI unit and visibly by some margin. Mine can do essentially perfect color out to the contraints BD has anyway. My particular projector has perfect or near perfect panel alignment but has less fill so the ISCO is needed for scope. The optics on the HT 5000 are wonderful.

I fight to keep my projector at 20fL which I love so I change out lamps more frequently than most people. The Barco loafs with 50fL. The Barco has those advantages over mine.

Art
post #37 of 76
Or an 100fL Art, all depending on the lamp, Alan has one with a smaller lamp, Wolfgang I believe has the biggest standard lamp. And Jim Burns, was right in one of the articles I saw online talking about his Barco's, that allows for the TV experience on the Big screen, i.e. no batcave required and still flatscreen level brightness, only at a larger scale.
post #38 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Or an 100fL Art, all depending on the lamp, Alan has one with a smaller lamp, Wolfgang I believe has the biggest standard lamp. And Jim Burns, was right in one of the articles I saw online talking about his Barco's, that allows for the TV experience on the Big screen, i.e. no batcave required and still flatscreen level brightness, only at a larger scale.

Yea, on high lamp we measured 104fL on his 12' screen with the small lamp. Sufficient horsepower I think.

Art
post #39 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Yea, on high lamp we measured 104fL on his 12' screen with the small lamp. Sufficient horsepower I think.

Art

What did 104 ft lamberts look like?? Did it hurt your eyes? Imagine football!
post #40 of 76
Thread Starter 
Personally ,I liked it in that one could turn up the lights for just such occasions. It would be way too much light for films in a darkened room. With a 100IRE screen you needed a welding helmet.

Art
post #41 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Peter,
All I know is that a lens is needed to do scope projection best with consumer units like mine IMO. With the Barco I'd say not.

Curious to see which way you go Art.
post #42 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Yea, on high lamp we measured 104fL on his 12' screen with the small lamp. Sufficient horsepower I think.

Art

Art:

Was the Barco modified with a fixed aperture for increased on/off CR? I know Nick's was
post #43 of 76
I do not have the iris for increased contrast in mine, "yet"
post #44 of 76
Very cool Art, and Alan - thx for the details. To say I'm drooling with envy would be an understatement.

Art: I'm fascinated by the test discs you selected. I would have added:
2001 - the scene when the apes touch the monolith (good test of contrast and detail in the shadows)
Tron Legacy - the initial battle sequence (talk about an extreme ANSI test)

Oh and BTW, why not get two Barcos for 3D . . .
post #45 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Yea, on high lamp we measured 104fL on his 12' screen with the small lamp. Sufficient horsepower I think.

Art

Art:

That horsepower is not wasted, just have the fixed aperture modification done and light output will decrease by 50%, with a doubling of your ON/OFF CR...Then you will really love what you see
post #46 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post
Art:

That horsepower is not wasted, just have the fixed aperture modification done and light output will decrease by 50%, with a doubling of your ON/OFF CR...Then you will really love what you see
I'm hoping for the iris in the lens as well.

Art
post #47 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Art:

That horsepower is not wasted, just have the fixed aperture modification done and light output will decrease by 50%, with a doubling of your ON/OFF CR...Then you will really love what you see

Lon, it may be more than 50%, dependent on aperture. I think the DP-1200 was specified with 12K lumens and 2.000:1 contrast ratio, the aperture install resulted in ca. 4.600lm and 3.960:1 CR at full power. I am driving the lamp at low level, which leaves lots of resources for a 12' - 15' 1,0 gain screen, lamp aging included. The new models offer additional resources, good for the owners as soon as a second aperture comes into play.

Once owning a desastrous Christie HD model the decision to change was easy, especcially having a good friend in the background pushing one in the right direction But if you own a wonderful machine that operates on such an outstanding performance level as Art's HT5K, things can get difficult. I am convinced the new series II units offer some additional advantages that can be considered and make a decision future proof.
post #48 of 76
Regarding CR improvement with aperture mods, what has been done so far has been very crude, using either a smaller illumination system aperture or a smaller lens iris, or both. I think that the only unit using both was my DP-100. My present DP-1500 uses only the illumination system mod. I took the lens apart, but decided not to do anything without more information about its design.

None of the current mods have been truly optimized using ray tracing and there is good potential for better performance. Also, the engineer who designed most of the digital cinema projector optical system left TI a few years ago and coud be available to optimize the CR improvement. Barco has also considered doing this, but I don't know if it's an active project at present.
post #49 of 76
Thanks for posting your report, Art (and by association Alan and Ken W). Astonishing power available (104ftL ).

Would love to stop by Alan's place with some of my favorite blu-rays!

I'm looking forward to my copy of Once Upon a Time in the West on blu-ray. It's not available here in the UK until September, but the disc is region free, so I ordered it from Amazon.com. Sadly, it will only be viewed on my Pioneer plasma.
post #50 of 76
It sounds like you had a fun visit, Art.

Peter,
Are you going to have a booth at Cedia?
post #51 of 76
Ever since getting the dVision 1080p with dual bulbs, followed by the Lumis, having a bright punchy picture around 20 foot lamberts has hooked me ( thanks Alan ) !! 50 - 100 foot lamberts sounds out of this world. I can't imagine how a movie like Avatar looks on your screen Alan.............
post #52 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Ever since getting the dVision 1080p with dual bulbs, followed by the Lumis, having a bright punchy picture around 20 foot lamberts has hooked me ( thanks Alan ) !! 50 - 100 foot lamberts sounds out of this world. I can't imagine how a movie like Avatar looks on your screen Alan.............

You would think due to the high brightness the projector offers any compression artifacts would visually surface but it looks really good!
post #53 of 76
when i got my old barco cinema pr. almost 3.5 years ago and people ask why i put
a 4000 watt xenon lamp inside that can do in 2d even at my big screen around
65ftl they call me crazy.

65 ftl is indeed a bit to much to watch in 2d at a black box like my cinema and therefore i reduce the light out to get
arround 35 ftl by just dim the lamp.
as the lamp drop fast (after 300 hours you lost 30%) than the 35 ftl becomes only
24,5 ftl and that not to bright anymore.
but than no problem you reduce just the dim factor a bit and you have
compensate the drop or you use contstant brightness and the pr. do this

today more and more people that saw this high lumen numbers in 2d and as it possible
to even do 3d in high lumen numbers (at least with this cinema pr. with big lamps)
more and more think the same birghter is better.
but this is limit for people with a big budget as there is no cheap consumer pr.
full hd with a good picture that can do over 10.000 lumen for less than 10K.

but some day it will be a pr. for this price level there and than much more will say
brighter is better.

for 2d a bright picture is important but for 3d its even more importent
and this cinema units can do perfect flicker free tripleflash (2x 72 hz)
from a 3d bd.
post #54 of 76
Panasonic is introducing an WXGA 7K lumens single chipper at that price point. German sources didn't quote a price, but just found an US source quoting around 11K.

Panasonic include the PT-DW730 and the PT-DX800 (XGA 8K lumens). The PT-DW730 offers a brightness of 7,000 lumens, a resolution of 1,280 x 800 (WXGA), along with a contrast ratio of 2,000:1. The PT-DW730 should be available in August for $10,999 to $11,399.

So natural wide-open DLP contrast, and lower resolution, are the clear drawbacks.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6383057
post #55 of 76
Thread Starter 
I agree with Wolfgang regarding high lumens. I would say that I certainly could get used to 30 plus fL in a dark room for everything.

Art
post #56 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

It sounds like you had a fun visit, Art.

Peter,
Are you going to have a booth at Cedia?

Too early to tell it depends on the moons of Jupiter projects taking off.:-)
post #57 of 76
I'm glad you finally got to met Alan in person, wish I could have made it.
post #58 of 76
Don nice to hear from you. Looks like you have redone your theater, very nice.
Its good to see you have a place to retreat when your not on the road!
post #59 of 76
Jeff. You do not need 104 ft lamberts for foot ball. However, HOCKEY is another story.
post #60 of 76
wow. I never thought about going DCI. Now I am. I'm so used to being dug deep in the common consumer gear I've forgotten that another level or performance is available. Thanks for the thoughts
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