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The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 5

post #121 of 5257
Tweaks = Preference;
MultEQ = Reference;
Reference = Greater Good.
Q.E.D.

so sayeth Gary J
post #122 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Tweaks = Preference;
MultEQ = Reference;
Reference = Greater Good.
Q.E.D.

so sayeth Gary J

Well now, is it reference when the mic positions are here or when they are there? 'Cause the results are different, they both can't be reference.

Jeff
post #123 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Very quickly one realizes that even slightly different mic positions yields different .. sometimes more than slightly different ... results. As long as there is MultEQ and Pro kits, I will have them in my theater, but to be too cemented to reference when the results can be changed so easily puts the lie to the very meaning of reference.

Exactly, so why not let us get the reference we like best, i.e. more control over the target curve.
post #124 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Well now, is it reference when the mic positions are here or when they are there? 'Cause the results are different, they both can't be reference.

Jeff

Dude, don't ask me, I'm just quoting the scripture.
post #125 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Dude, don't ask me, I'm just quoting the scripture.

Exactly, there's a bit too much religion around here.
post #126 of 5257
Amen, brother!

Audyssey is like a hand grenade, close is good enough for me. I just did a 19 position calibration. Why?...because I could...
post #127 of 5257
Nineteen positions? My hero? Do you take reading material, or browse the internet between moving the mic and hitting "measure?"
post #128 of 5257
Your hero? Have your standards always been so low?

I rarely calibrate, in fact its only my second Pro cal in the 8 months I've had it. I just got a fancy to put the Mic in every position I've ever thought would be a good place to measure...turns out there were 19 of them.
post #129 of 5257


Any noticeable differences from previous, less enthusiastic calibrations?

Jeff
post #130 of 5257
Although I know there may be differences between the physical distance and the acoustic distances, this calibration the distance numbers appear more accurate and the surround levels seem better. This had the effect of tightening up the cohesion between the front and rear soundstage. My "bubble" is better . The bass is ridiculously good, but it was great before too. Of all things, I love what Audyssey Pro has done for my bass response. Definitely a big step above the MultEQ I was running prior.

I'm not kidding myself, In all likelihood I would have had the same reults if I stopped at 8 positions, but I'm happy with the results.
post #131 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Well now, is it reference when the mic positions are here or when they are there? 'Cause the results are different, they both can't be reference.

Jeff

I agree completely. In the end, you just have to trust your own ears against a live listening reference - music is best. But, different mike positioning can get you just about as close to that live standard with some arbitrary differences. In any case, room effects will be reduced providing a better listening result.

Even pro acousticians with the best and costliest equipment cannot assure "perfection". There is no such thing in acoustics. It's too complex. Measurements help a great deal, but there is no single perfect result. And exactly reproducing Audysey's results on other equipment is well nigh impossible simply because it's too difficult to reproduce the exact same mike positions in a real room.
post #132 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

I agree completely. In the end, you just have to trust your own ears against a live listening reference - music is best. But, different mike positioning can get you just about as close to that live standard with some arbitrary differences. In any case, room effects will be reduced providing a better listening result.

Even pro acousticians with the best and costliest equipment cannot assure "perfection". There is no such thing in acoustics. It's too complex. Measurements help a great deal, but there is no single perfect result. And exactly reproducing Audysey's results on other equipment is well nigh impossible simply because it's too difficult to reproduce the exact same mike positions in a real room.

Bingo! Ultimately ... and certainly in the case of the varying reference we get with MultEQ ... and I'd bet every other RC technology ... "reference" lives inside our heads. The more experienced we are, the closer the reference in my head is to the one in yours .. and the one that a Tom Holman would bring to a theater.

Jeff
post #133 of 5257
Just posting an independent FR graph of my latest Pro calibration. This is 5.2 All Channels with 1/6 smoothing.
LL
post #134 of 5257
Goddoc, how many mic positions to produce the above graph, and what placement? (Not Audyssey mic positions ... )

Do you use the midrange compensation?

Jeff
post #135 of 5257
One position at the MLP. Midrange comp on. Dynamic EQ off. I've got a dip around 200 hertz I'm gonna work on when I get a chance.
post #136 of 5257
Have you tried boosting 200Hz a bit with the Pro Kit?
post #137 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Have you tried boosting 200Hz a bit with the Pro Kit?

No, but I'm going to

My subs are hitting 115+ dB clean at my MLP though, and I'm *very* happy about that. I posted this on another thread to show the importance of capable sides, but the numbers also show what my subs are putting out


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Thanks for the observation. The bottom line is as long as it sounds good to ears of the person listening it's all good.

One thing I know for sure though, if you want to hear the soundtracks as intended you need rear speakers as equally capable as the mains.

Here are the results of SPL measurements using Omnimic from the opening salvo on the Master & Commander: Far Side of the World Bluray. Reference level Audyssey Pro calibrated system, C-weighted and slow:

5.2 (All channels)
Peak - 121.9 dB
Max - 108.6 dB
Min - 54.4 dB


Sides only + subs
Peak - 118.8 dB
Max - 109 dB
Min - 51.8 dB


5 Channels, No Subs
Peak - 115.4 dB
Max - 100.8 dB
Min - 51.4 dB


Sides only, No Subs
Peak - 111.8 dB
Max - 97.4 dB
Min - 53.2 dB

Only a 3 dB difference between the 5 Channel, No Subs and the Side Only, No Subs. And if you figure the contribution of the center channel, to the 5 channel measurement they are all likely equal in output.
post #138 of 5257
Thanks to CobraMR, I now have an Audyssey Installer Pro Kit! I did a quick three position calibration (Denon 4311) last night and have a few questions about the results.

1) Is there a way to view the db and frequency reference scales on the Audyssey Certificate graphs?

2) My subwoofer response appears fairly flat, but not sure it is at reference level since I can't see a scale. During the calibration, Audyssey noted that my subwoofer "polarity" was incorrect (currently + vs -). Previous non pro Audyssey calibrations with my Integra 9.8 and MultXT32 with my Denon 4311 made no remarks about polarity. Audyssey trims the sub at -4.5; if the sub isn't at reference level (again I just can't tell from the graph), is this possibly due to the polarity warning.

3) My front left and right are full towers (Infinity Overture III) with powered subwoofers. Their frequency response is similar prior to calibration, but the left speaker has a low frequency roll-off after calibration, yet the right speaker displays a full range response...any reason why this would happen? Just noticed that the crossover listed for the fronts is 80hz. Audyssey listed them as Large after the calibration and if I recall correctly, I switched the crossovers to 80hz.

Here's my certificate...thanks!

Attachment 218090

 

Audyssey Customer Certificate.pdf 163.671875k . file
post #139 of 5257
Thread Starter 
^
1)1st dark vert line=100, 2nd=1000Hz
I believe each horiz line off the X axis=5dB
2) I was told by Luke @ Audyssey to ignore that polarity warning on the subs.
post #140 of 5257
Thanks, so it appears that post calibration, my sub is approximately -4.5db below reference after being trimmed -4.5db by Audyssey...that doesn't make sense to me.
post #141 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobkbusch View Post

2) My subwoofer response appears fairly flat, but not sure it is at reference level since I can't see a scale. During the calibration, Audyssey noted that my subwoofer "polarity" was incorrect (currently + vs -). Previous non pro Audyssey calibrations with my Integra 9.8 and MultXT32 with my Denon 4311 made no remarks about polarity. Audyssey trims the sub at -4.5; if the sub isn't at reference level (again I just can't tell from the graph), is this possibly due to the polarity warning.

What makes you think your sub is not at reference level?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobkbusch View Post

3) My front left and right are full towers (Infinity Overture III) with powered subwoofers. Their frequency response is similar prior to calibration, but the left speaker has a low frequency roll-off after calibration, yet the right speaker displays a full range response...any reason why this would happen? Just noticed that the crossover listed for the fronts is 80hz. Audyssey listed them as Large after the calibration and if I recall correctly, I switched the crossovers to 80hz.

Two things could cause this. 1) Your left speaker powered sub has a bad driver/amp, or 2) it is simply that the speakers are measuring differently due to room acoustics, ie - your left speaker is sitting in a null and simply doesn't have the bass extension of the right speaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobkbusch View Post

Thanks, so it appears that post calibration, my sub is approximately -4.5db below reference after being trimmed -4.5db by Audyssey...that doesn't make sense to me.

What was the method and equipment you used to verify the sub level?
post #142 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
What makes you think your sub is not at reference level?
Perhaps it is just my mis-interpretation of my Audyssey Certificate. As I mentioned, I don't see a scale, so I'm assuming the darker horizontal line is reference, and my sub graphs out about 4-5db lower. Other certificates I've seen posted from other members show the sub level at the darker (reference) line.

Attachment 218110

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Two things could cause this. 1) Your left speaker powered sub has a bad driver/amp, or 2) it is simply that the speakers are measuring differently due to room acoustics, ie - your left speaker is sitting in a null and simply doesn't have the bass extension of the right speaker
Both of those reasons make sense. However, in either of those cases wouldn't the "before" graphs differ greatly between the left and right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
What was the method and equipment you used to verify the sub level?
Just the Audyssey Installer Pro Kit.

 

Audyssey Customer Certificate.pdf 163.671875k . file
post #143 of 5257
Looking at your Pro certificate tells me your your right front speakers sub levels are much higher than your left, to me they greatly differ.
post #144 of 5257
You should turn down the levels of the built in subs in your Infinity mains speakers to the levels of your mids and highs before running Pro calibration.
post #145 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Looking at your Pro certificate tells me your your right front speakers sub levels are much higher than your left, to me they greatly differ.

You are correct! I hadn't noticed that. Perhaps that is why my overall sub level graph is also below reference. I will rerun the calibration with the Front Left and Right powered subs turned down and see if it also makes a difference in the sub graph.
post #146 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobkbusch View Post

Perhaps it is just my mis-interpretation of my Audyssey Certificate. As I mentioned, I don't see a scale, so I'm assuming the darker horizontal line is reference, and my sub graphs out about 4-5db lower. Other certificates I've seen posted from other members show the sub level at the darker (reference) line.

Attachment 218110



Both of those reasons make sense. However, in either of those cases wouldn't the "before" graphs differ greatly between the left and right.



Just the Audyssey Installer Pro Kit.

I'm not the best person to help you. I could steer you wrong since I've never attempted to interpret the details of the certificate graphs as I measure my room independently of Audyssey. Just keep in mind the post graphs are calculated, not measured. .
post #147 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Just posting an independent FR graph of my latest Pro calibration. This is 5.2 All Channels with 1/6 smoothing.

what subs are you running?
12 inch ?
post #148 of 5257
18" sealed.
post #149 of 5257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

18" sealed.

I thought you had bigger subs
mid room?
dropping off fast below 30
post #150 of 5257
Its the nature of their design. They're high efficiency pro drivers and have solid output to 25-30 Hz and roll off 2nd order below, but they handle transients extremely well within the driver's range. I don't have a huge desire to chase the sub 20 Hz region so its a tradeoff I accept.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1)