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The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 41

post #1201 of 4233
2/18/12 at 3:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It really makes no difference if you move the mic by 1 inch for the first position. It can't possibly be accurate for the actual listening position, except for people who put their head into a vice when watching a movie.
Like any truly serious enthusiast, I have a cushioned "vise" (yes that is the proper American spellling). It is a highly ergonomic recliner with a small neck support pillow which ensures both proper posture and head position with each golden ear an exact 2.75" off from the tip of the mic.

When I watch a movie, sometimes I sit upright, sometimes I slouch, sometimes I lean on the left armrest, sometimes on the right sometimes I recline my chair more, sometimes less...
You are like a hyperactive child. Try some Ritalin before your next listening session.

And of course, this isn't even to mention the case where people (me for example) have their couch up against the wall and their head is too close to the wall to put the mic at the actual listening position and they have to set it about 18 inches or more away from the wall, which puts it somewhere in front of where their head has to go...
OK, now I have to call the Audyssey Vice Squad (gambling, prostitution, improper MLP) to come over and pull the damn couch away from the wall.


See above.
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post #1202 of 4233
2/18/12 at 4:02pm
"...ensures both proper posture and head position with each golden ear an exact 2.75" off from the tip of the mic."

I have measured, and my distance ear-to-ear is 6 inches. Are you saying I am a fathead? Don't know if that is any better than being a pinhead...
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post #1203 of 4233
2/18/12 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
AJ, I believe that is still considered normocephalic so I wouldn't worry about it. But after claiming the Golden Ears award at a HiFi meet at Salk Sound recently my ego got so big I almost had to adjust the soundstage width.
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post #1204 of 4233
2/18/12 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post


See above.

Hahaha, LOL. I'll make myself a Ritalin cocktail and settle down some
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post #1205 of 4233
2/18/12 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I place the tip of the mic where the center of my head would be, not where the side of my head would be.

The network plays no role in a Pro calibration on a 4311. There is a Serial-to-USB cable that connects to the RS232 port on the back of the AVR, with the other end connected to a computer's USB port. A laptop is the most convenient computer to use. The Pro mic has a standard RCA plug that connects to the AUX input port behind the drop-down panel on the front of the 4311. It connects to the LEFT AUX IN port.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It really doesn't matter. It's not necessary to get it to millimeter accuracy. Just set the mic to where you think your ears/head will be when listening - they won't stay in that same place throughout an entire movie unless you watch with your head in a vice. My 'nominal' ear height when listening is 35 inches, so that's how I set my mic - but I know full well that I will move around while the movie is on, certainly by an inch or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I don't disagree, but accuracy has a lot to do with repeatability. We both have read countless posts about repeating calibrations over and over again until you get "a good one". I have found that by being accurate, I can get a good, predictable calibration every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes that is a fair point. Where I tend to become bemused is when I see people agonising over mic placement to the fraction of an inch. It isn't that critical and Chris himself has said this on more than one occasion. For example, the usual advice is to space the mic positions out by putting them 2 feet apart and I have read of people getting out a measuring tape and measuring this to the fraction of an inch! It just isn't necessary - approximately two feet apart is good enough. But yes, wrt to repeating a set of measurements in another calibration, I agree totally that it is easier and more certain to give a consistent, reliable result if you can put the mic back into the same place. I know from experience where my mic needs to go to be able to repeat a calibration consistently, but I don't fret overmuch about getting it right to a quarter of an inch

Thanks for the quick answers. I have done many audyssey calibrations with my Denon 4310 & 4311 AVRs and know where my MLP is - I have always placed in the center at ear level, but wanted to be sure for my first pro calibration. I sure wish the denon 4311 connected via network instead of the RS232 serial port. FWIW I tried connecting with my HTPC, but I can't see the place to input the key all I see is a black screen with Audyssey Banner. The laptop worked fine. I did 12 measurements for my small room (1750 cubic feet),reset front & center from large to small with 60 xover, left the 60 xover for the surrounds and heights, chose Target curve 1 and left the midrange Compensation enabled. Now it is time to listen to some music to see if I like the results
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post #1206 of 4233
2/18/12 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post


Thanks for the quick answers. I have done many audyssey calibrations with my Denon 4310 & 4311 AVRs and know where my MLP is - I have always placed in the center at ear level, but wanted to be sure for my first pro calibration. I sure wish the denon 4311 connected via network instead of the RS232 serial port. FWIW I tried connecting with my HTPC, but I can't see the place to input the key all I see is a black screen with Audyssey Banner. The laptop worked fine. I did 12 measurements for my small room (1750 cubic feet),reset front & center from large to small with 60 xover, left the 60 xover for the surrounds and heights, chose Target curve 1 and left the midrange Compensation enabled. Now it is time to listen to some music to see if I like the results

Nice job!
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post #1207 of 4233
2/19/12 at 3:27am
Hello

I just received my Pro kit and I have some questions to ask.

I run the Pro with my Integra DHC 80.2.

After running 8 measurements the Pro calculate its best curve.

I see that I can chose from 3 different curves to edit.

I chose the High Frequency Roll-off 1 curve to edit ,according to my room size.

Does the High Frequency Roll-off 1 curve is the curve that was calculated by the Pro ,according to the measurements of my room?

Audyssey Pro recommends setting my front speakers crossover at 40HZ.

The next option was 80HZ and the third was 60HZ...

Why It is like that and not 40,60,80? Does it make any sense?

At the standard XT32 I have been told by Audyssey that always set the crossover to 80HZ.

For the Pro I have been told that the best results will be by sticking to the Pro recommendation, 40HZ.

Why is the different recommendations, between the Pro and the standard XT32?

Thank you very much for your help

Yoav
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post #1208 of 4233
2/19/12 at 5:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

I sure wish the denon 4311 connected via network instead of the RS232 serial port.

Interesting how we all have different views - I'd much prefer it if the Onkyo connected via a serial port/USB connection instead of using a network connection! I always seem to run into problems whenever I go near a network configuration screen.

Fortunately, help is always at hand in this thread. I don't have my Pro kit yet - it seems to be stuck in UK Customs - but it will be here soon. Hopefully the required Onkyo firmware will be following it close behind. Then the fun begins...
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post #1209 of 4233
2/19/12 at 7:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoav View Post

...I chose the High Frequency Roll-off 1 curve to edit ,according to my room size.
OK, that's what most do.

Does the High Frequency Roll-off 1 curve is the curve that was calculated by the Pro ,according to the measurements of my room?
According to the size measurements, not acoustic.

Audyssey Pro recommends setting my front speakers crossover at 40HZ.
The next option was 80HZ and the third was 60HZ...
Why It is like that and not 40,60,80? Does it make any sense?
Pro ranks those according to the best 'splice" between sub(s) and each speaker, based on acoustic measurements.

At the standard XT32 I have been told by Audyssey that always set the crossover to 80HZ. For the Pro I have been told that the best results will be by sticking to the Pro recommendation, 40HZ.
Noone has yet reported much audible difference from chosing the highest ranked to chosing the next highest ranked. One must also consider the tradeoff from offloading the sub(s) as for guys with our kind of gear, the "best" xover is often 40Hz, and most of us are used to running 80Hz, with 80 being easier on the sats and the sat amps.

Hi Yoav. Welcome. See above. Feel free to post more questions, comments and your results.
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post #1210 of 4233
2/19/12 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoav View Post

Hello

I just received my Pro kit and I have some questions to ask.

I run the Pro with my Integra DHC 80.2.

After running 8 measurements the Pro calculate its best curve.

I see that I can chose from 3 different curves to edit.

I chose the High Frequency Roll-off 1 curve to edit ,according to my room size.

Does the High Frequency Roll-off 1 curve is the curve that was calculated by the Pro ,according to the measurements of my room?

Audyssey Pro recommends setting my front speakers crossover at 40HZ.

The next option was 80HZ and the third was 60HZ...

Why It is like that and not 40,60,80? Does it make any sense?

At the standard XT32 I have been told by Audyssey that always set the crossover to 80HZ.

For the Pro I have been told that the best results will be by sticking to the Pro recommendation, 40HZ.

Why is the different recommendations, between the Pro and the standard XT32?

Thank you very much for your help

Yoav

No, Pro has no idea what size your room is. The 3 standard target curves provided are fixed. You just pick the one whose volume best resembles your room. Actually, I cheat and use curve 1 in a large room that suggests curve 2. There are extenuating circumstances.

There was a reason to always use at least 80 Hz, pre XT32. But, that is no longer true. I just use what Audyssey recommends. Yes, setting it higher than that will offload more of the bass duties onto your sub, which might be beneficial in some circumstances.

I do not know what you mean about 3 different recommendations for your main channels. Audyssey only makes one recommendation. You can override that with a higher value ( never use a lower one) if you wish.
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post #1211 of 4233
2/19/12 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

I do not know what you mean about 3 different recommendations for your main channels. Audyssey only makes one recommendation. You can override that with a higher value ( never use a lower one) if you wish.

AUdysseyPro suggests a hierarchy of preferences. They are not in order of frequency but in order of AP's determination of efficacy.
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post #1212 of 4233
2/19/12 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

AUdysseyPro suggests a hierarchy of preferences. They are not in order of frequency but in order of AP's determination of efficacy.

I noticed that in a recent calibration full was listed above the 1st choice for my full range speakers but last in the rest of the speakers
Anything in this?
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post #1213 of 4233
2/19/12 at 7:41pm
Thread Starter 
^I also got Full as top choice for my towers, which I expect from the AVR but whiich I found weird coming from Pro. But it doesn't matter-just take the second choice, or the third-just not Full.

Luke clarified for me when I asked him, that there is no aspect to Pro which overrides the Audyssey cardinal rule:

ALL SPEAKERS GET RESET TO SMALL!
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post #1214 of 4233
2/19/12 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

I noticed that in a recent calibration full was listed above the 1st choice for my full range speakers but last in the rest of the speakers
Anything in this?

Nope. Choose the highest ranked crossover.
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post #1215 of 4233
2/19/12 at 10:49pm
I'd like to toss this subject out for comment since I don't recall seeing it in any of the Audyssey forums. When I first got my hands on a Pro Installer kit I used it to help identify the best sub locations in my HT. I moved the sub to the feasible locations and ran a single mic location & measurement first at my chair and then at my wife's chair. I looked at the two "before" plots and moved the subs around until I found the best locations. Since I had two subs, I picked locations where the two subs would be highly complementary at the two seats. This was before the SubEQ came along but might still be worth doing to ensure the needed corrections are well within the SubEQ's correction capability. For those without a SubEQ, it's even more beneficial.

What I particularly found was that the poor sub locations could indeed cause problems that were well beyond full correction by Audyssey. One was a dip in the response that was about 20 db deep. It fell at a different frequency at each seat. As you experts might guess, that was with a sub on the right or left walls about even with the seats. The direct wave and reflected wave are both strong and meet out-of-phase at the seat.

I ended up with one corner sub to the left of the mains and one to the right at a point 2/3 of the way across the wall (this spot excites fewer of the lower room modes). Neither sub had peaks or valleys beyond about 8 db and both were less with both subs connected. Not surprisingly, both subs are equidistant from the listening position.

REW can be used for this purpose, but most of those on this forum have the Pro kit and can easily use it for this purpose.

If this isn't clear, let me know. If it makes sense, maybe it can go into the second post in the thread on use of the Pro kit.
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post #1216 of 4233
2/19/12 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi Yoav. Welcome. See above. Feel free to post more questions, comments and your results.

Quote:


According to the size measurements, not acoustic

Hi

Are you sure about that?
It does not make any sense
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post #1217 of 4233
2/19/12 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

No, Pro has no idea what size your room is. The 3 standard target curves provided are fixed. You just pick the one whose volume best resembles your room. Actually, I cheat and use curve 1 in a large room that suggests curve 2. There are extenuating circumstances.

There was a reason to always use at least 80 Hz, pre XT32. But, that is no longer true. I just use what Audyssey recommends. Yes, setting it higher than that will offload more of the bass duties onto your sub, which might be beneficial in some circumstances.

I do not know what you mean about 3 different recommendations for your main channels. Audyssey only makes one recommendation. You can override that with a higher value ( never use a lower one) if you wish.

Hi
Maybe I do not understand the purpose of editing the curves.
What is the use of editing a fixed curves?

As I see it, the Pro is measuring the acoustics at my room.

After that ,it makes some calculations and build some curve that suppose to fix my room acoustic problems.

Lets say that ,for some reasons ,I do not like the result that I hear that obviously derived from the curve that was made by the Pro.

As I see it I need to change the curve to fit my taste but I am talking about my room acoustic fix curve(that was made by the Pro) and not some curves that does not really represent my room acoustic.

Do I miss something in the way of my thinking?

Thank you very much for your help

Yoav
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post #1218 of 4233
2/20/12 at 5:18am
The different target curves in Pro are for different room volumes and attempt to account for how volume affects high frequency absorption.

You should have some means independent of Audyssey Pro to check the results and try to correlate what you hear with what you measure. Acoustical treatments might still be necessary.

Jeff
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post #1219 of 4233
2/20/12 at 5:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoav View Post

Hi
Are you sure about that? It does not make any sense

Perhaps this will clarify. Pro is not measuring your room acoustically to determine the best target curve. The curve is selected based on your room size and of course, you can also chose one based on preferences.

I thought I remembered a screen in Pro prompting room size specifically irt the curve selection process.
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post #1220 of 4233
2/20/12 at 5:42am
Yes, Pro does give you three choices for curves based on room dimensions/size. I just re-ran mine this last weekend. It also gives you the option for turning on/off midrange compensation (I like mine off). The third option is a custom curve if you so wish to suite your preference even more, but I have not used that option as I love the way it sounds (I use curve 1 with midrange compensation off - very small room with acoustical treatments).
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post #1221 of 4233
2/20/12 at 5:43am
I did my first Pro calibration on my Integra DHC 80.2 over the weekend. I'm not sure what to think of the results. On regular TV with Dynamic EQ engaged the bass is almost overwhelming. When listening to two channel music without the EQ engaged the bass sounds thin. I am going to re-do it as I did a 10 position calibration and don't think I moved the mic around enough. My room is 25' deep by 18' wide and 18' high and I basically did the calibration around a five foot area. I am using the second roll off frequency graph. Interestingly, when I did the sub[s] measurement I had to crank my subs up about 3 notches to get to the 75db level as opposed to when I did just a regular calibration with the Audyssey mic that comes with the 80.2. I'm just not quite sure if I did something wrong or what. Another unusual thing is that Audyssey set my Tower crossovers at 60Hz and my Center and side surrounds at 50Hz (rear surrounds to 70Hz). My Towers are Polk LSiM 707's. They can go pretty low. The non-pro calibration set them at 40Hz. Anyway, I wanted to ask one question. When you do your calibrations do you set all the processing to off on your receivers/pre-pros? I do. Should I be leaving Dynamic EQ on for the calibration? It appears that Audyssey turns it on anyway during the calibration. Is that making a difference of why there is so much bass when it's engaged? BTW, the graph shows a smoother response across all channels. I've only had a day or so of listening so maybe I haven't given it enough time yet.
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post #1222 of 4233
2/20/12 at 6:13am
Thread Starter 
^Hi, welcome. You've done well so far, there's really no need to repeat autosetup quite yet. All settings (such as DEQ ON/OFF) in the AVR are ignored during autosetup. If you have not yet done so, read the Audyssey Setup Guide for tips before running another calibration.

There is much info on DEQ and its proper use in the Audyssey thread such as in this post. Basically DEQ needs to be tweaked down using Reference Level Offset to tame xs bass and surrounds on non-film content (and some prefer -5 on film to tame surrounds).

Please read the posts just above about how Pro choses xovers.
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post #1223 of 4233
2/20/12 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

Another unusual thing is that Audyssey set my Tower crossovers at 60Hz and my Center and side surrounds at 50Hz (rear surrounds to 70Hz). My Towers are Polk LSiM 707's. They can go pretty low. The non-pro calibration set them at 40Hz.

Non-Pro is based on the -3dB LF rolloff point only. Pro is based on that plus estimates of smoother integration with the subwoofer.

Quote:


Anyway, I wanted to ask one question. When you do your calibrations do you set all the processing to off on your receivers/pre-pros? I do. Should I be leaving Dynamic EQ on for the calibration? It appears that Audyssey turns it on anyway during the calibration.

Yes, so it makes no difference.

Quote:


Is that making a difference of why there is so much bass when it's engaged?

DEQ boosts the bass but can be set at several levels or off. Matter of preference.

Quote:


the graph shows a smoother response across all channels. I've only had a day or so of listening so maybe I haven't given it enough time yet.

Or given yourself enough time to adapt to it.
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post #1224 of 4233
2/24/12 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

I did my first Pro calibration on my Integra DHC 80.2 over the weekend. I'm not sure what to think of the results. On regular TV with Dynamic EQ engaged the bass is almost overwhelming. When listening to two channel music without the EQ engaged the bass sounds thin. I am going to re-do it as I did a 10 position calibration and don't think I moved the mic around enough. .

I agree with the other comments. I would add two things. I find that TV content has much more bass now than a few years ago. It seems the producers have discovered we have good sound systems and have decided to use them. Or it may just be that your system is now properly tuned to present that bass and compensate for the bass drop-out at low volume levels. If you find it annoying, you can step it down. As for music, what you get these days on a CD is a mixed bag. We are at the mixer's mercy. If you listen to music at lower levels, you probably want Dynamic EQ on. It is intended to bring the lows up at nominal and lower volume levels to compensate for the fact that our ears (or brains) aren't as sensitive to bass at lower volume levels. You will find that at high volume levels switching Dynamic EQ on does little or nothing. At low volume levels it brings up the bass that your ears otherwise ignore.

Give it some time. You probably have a good calibration.
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post #1225 of 4233
2/26/12 at 4:01pm
any of you guys pick up an extended boom arm for your kit
what did you get ?
would like to do all measuring from behind my couch
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post #1226 of 4233
2/26/12 at 4:30pm
Just using the boom it comes with. Not long enough?

Jeff
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post #1227 of 4233
2/26/12 at 5:54pm
yeah, longer one would work a lot better
I just don't like having mic stand in front of couch for some of
the measurments
thou until Integra/Audyssey get new firmware out stuck with the basic
calibrations on my 80.3
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post #1228 of 4233
2/26/12 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

yeah, longer one would work a lot better
I just don't like having mic stand in front of couch for some of
the measurments
thou until Integra/Audyssey get new firmware out stuck with the basic
calibrations on my 80.3

Hi,
I also prefer my calibration mic to be the highest point, but instead of going from behind I use a low-profile mic boom stand. Has always worked for me.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acces...53063000000000

I also use a microphone shock mount (small pen style for thinner marks):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...71295000001000
LL
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post #1229 of 4233
2/26/12 at 8:05pm
I just installed 3.5 .i had been using 3.4. With the same data it had different priorities for my mains.

3.4 : 80. Hz, 40hz, 70 hz, 60 hz
3.5: 80hz, 70hz, 40hz, 60 hz

Is the algorithm different for priortization in 3.5?
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post #1230 of 4233
2/27/12 at 10:49am
I don't know that they are changing anything with newer versions except for adding compatibility for new units. More likely, it was slightly different mic positions.

My $.02.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1)