The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 77

Originally Posted by pepar

If you added a second sub, you would not need to think long and hard as to whether or not it was a good decision.

Jeff

Originally Posted by pepar

The target curves choices are in the Pro software and are "starting points." Once the calibration is loaded, the receiver/processor controls the Movie/Music options.

Jeff

Originally Posted by kbarnes701

Been meaning to ask this, and your post reminded me... I have a dip of about 5dB or even slightly more IIRC that runs from about 450 Hz up to just over 1kHz. Is the curve editor intended to help me eliminate such a dip, or is it really just for tweaking the very high end in order to compensate for larger than average rooms?

Originally Posted by mjf_uk

Thanks to Keith and others for sharing details of their Mic positions.

I was wondering if you still get the option of Music and Movie on the 5509 after the Pro Calibration has been run?

Originally Posted by pepar

Keith,

A "dip" that broad should be correctable with the curve editor. Are you seeing this at your MLP with your independent measuring?

Originally Posted by pepar

I think the editor is generally intended to fine tune a curve to the listener's preferences. I have a 1.5dB shelf at 200Hz (main channels only, "anchored" at 300Hz) and a 1.5dB lift at 20KHz (anchored at 12KHz and 24KHz).

Jeff

Originally Posted by pepar

Just an FYI that can make your target curve editing so very, very easy. Enter the curve editor and immediately save a file - even though you have not changed anything. Once you have saved a custom-edited curve, you can open it in a spreadsheet app and edit it that way. (They are CSV files.)

With the graphic editor in MultEQ Pro, using a mouse is a bit imprecise with respect to the frequency of the handle (control point) and the amount of offset. And using a touchpad is, well ... mo' imprecise. In a spreadsheet, existing handles can be changed and new handles can be entered by simply adding lines; column A is the frequency and column B is the offset. Line 1 is the file's location/name.

There are some restrictions with respect to the density of the handles and their magnitude. This is from my experience as I have never read it anywhere. Under 1000Hz, there is a 100Hz min spacing. Above 1000Hz up to 10KHz there is a 1000Hz min spacing. Above 10KHz there is a 2000Hz min spacing. There's probably a restriction under 100Hz, but I have not done enough down there to have bumped into it.

There is a max +/-3dB offset, so your 5dB trough cannot be completely tweaked out.

Below is one of the last iterations for my no longer owned 885.



The curve for my 5508, beyond the "standard" 20Hz and 24KHz points, is:

200 - 1.5
300 - 0 (the "anchor)
12000 - 0
20000 - 1.5

Originally Posted by pepar

Keith,

A "dip" that broad should be correctable with the curve editor. Are you seeing this at your MLP with your independent measuring?

I think the editor is generally intended to fine tune a curve to the listener's preferences. I have a 1.5dB shelf at 200Hz (main channels only, "anchored" at 300Hz) and a 1.5dB lift at 20KHz (anchored at 12KHz and 24KHz).

Jeff

Originally Posted by kbarnes701

Can you explain a little more about the anchors please? Where would the anchors go for the dip from 450 Hz to 1100 Hz? What do you enter into the spreadsheet for the anchor points - ah I see from your screenie that it is 0? If I wanted to even out that dip by the max of 3dB, how would I create the anchor points and would I use one or more correction points? TIA.

Originally Posted by pepar

Anchor is my term for a handle/control point that assigns a zero offset, i.e. it "anchors" the target curve to Reference. I use anchors to isolate the offsets that I make. I didn't want my 200Hz boost to affect frequencies above 300Hz, so I anchored 300Hz to the reference curve. Also, I wanted my HF lift to be hinged at 12KHz .. not raise anything below that ... so I anchored 12KHz. I didn't want anymore boost at 24KHz, so it got anchored as well.

With the range you want to lift being somewhat broad, you could try entering a 3dB lift at 800Hz or so and see what it does below 450Hz and above 1100Hz. Or you could anchor those frequencies and lift 800 by 3 and not have to fuss with it.

Jeff

Originally Posted by muad'dib

I'm a little confused with how the pro mic calculations are stored in the denon a-100.

If you for example select curve 1 in the pro software, what pre-set in denon is that curve 1 stored as?

Is it the Audyssey EQ selection? Or the FLAT selection?

If it's the Audyssey EQ selection, then is the FLAT setting still NOT rolling off the treble then like curve 1 is?

Also, what setting to most of you choose for the 'midrange compensation ' setting in pro software ? ( not sure if it's called that, but it an option where the curv selection is.

Thanks

Originally Posted by tandy1000rl

With all the debate in the other Audyssey thread about HF brightness, large rooms, etc, I'm beginning to wonder if I have an issue with premature roll-off of high frequencies in the main speakers in my large room.

The attached graph shows the LF & RF Audyssey certificates for both my ~5500 and ~1400 cubic foot pro-calibrated rooms. Speakers in the large room are Krell Resolution 3, while speakers in small room are NHT SuperOne. AVR in each room is Denon 4311CI.

Note how much more rapidly the "Before" HF rolls off in my large room compared to the smaller. I've been reading here that the in-room response for good speakers should measure flat from 4kHz to 10kHz, then roll off rapidly above that. My small room fits that characteristic, while my larger room does not. There, I get roll-off beginning as early as 5kHz, which is near the roll-off measured in large concert halls per the same article.

Now for the favor...can folks post their LF and RF Before graphs from their Audyssey certificate (so we're apples to apples) along with your approximate room volume cubic feet so I can determine if I have a speaker problem rather than a room problem? Specifically, does anyone else have an Audyssey Before graph that shows HF roll-off as early as my large room does, or does this look suspicious from your experience?

Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by tandy1000rl


I have midrange compensation turned on for my larger room and turned off for my smaller room. Try it both ways and see which you prefer. If the research is to be believed, you "should" prefer leaving it on, but try it both ways to validate.

Originally Posted by tandy1000rl


The filters you upload into the 4311CI/A-100 from the Pro software will populate in the "Audyssey" curve in the Denon. You will still be able to use the "Audyssey Flat" curve, which as you suggest will not have the same roll-off as the "Audyssey" curve does. You can see this easiest by going into the Parameter Check menu within the receiver and reviewing the crude EQ graphs for both "Audyssey" and "Audyssey Flat". You should see either more HF boost (or less cut) in the flat curve.

I have midrange compensation turned on for my larger room and turned off for my smaller room. Try it both ways and see which you prefer. If the research is to be believed, you "should" prefer leaving it on, but try it both ways to validate.

Originally Posted by pepar


When I first got my hands on Pro I snottily assumed that *my* speakers (almost legendary M&K S-150s) didn't need that midrange compensation. I listened to about 20 seconds of something with a female vocal (Chaka Khan, iirc) and immediately redid the calibration with midcomp.

Jeff

Originally Posted by tandy1000rl

With all the debate in the other Audyssey thread about HF brightness, large rooms, etc, I'm beginning to wonder if I have an issue with premature roll-off of high frequencies in the main speakers in my large room.

The attached graph shows the LF & RF Audyssey certificates for both my ~5500 and ~1400 cubic foot pro-calibrated rooms. Speakers in the large room are Krell Resolution 3, while speakers in small room are NHT SuperOne. AVR in each room is Denon 4311CI.

Note how much more rapidly the "Before" HF rolls off in my large room compared to the smaller. I've been reading here that the in-room response for good speakers should measure flat from 4kHz to 10kHz, then roll off rapidly above that. My small room fits that characteristic, while my larger room does not. There, I get roll-off beginning as early as 5kHz, which is near the roll-off measured in large concert halls per the same article.

Now for the favor...can folks post their LF and RF Before graphs from their Audyssey certificate (so we're apples to apples) along with your approximate room volume cubic feet so I can determine if I have a speaker problem rather than a room problem? Specifically, does anyone else have an Audyssey Before graph that shows HF roll-off as early as my large room does, or does this look suspicious from your experience?

Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by muad'dib

I'm a little confused with how the pro mic calculations are stored in the denon a-100.

If you for example select curve 1 in the pro software, what pre-set in denon is that curve 1 stored as?

Is it the Audyssey EQ selection? Or the FLAT selection?

If it's the Audyssey EQ selection, then is the FLAT setting still NOT rolling off the treble then like curve 1 is?

Also, what setting to most of you choose for the 'midrange compensation ' setting in pro software ? ( not sure if it's called that, but it an option where the curv selection is.

Thanks

Originally Posted by muad'dib

Awesome info.

Thanks much.

Will test with the midrange setting.

Is this on by default when using just mic that came with denon and not using pro

Originally Posted by cavchameleon

Hi,

I think a lot matters with what's in the room, not just room size. My room is only 1250 cubic feet and I get a high freq roll-off (pre- Audyssey) like your big room. The room is heavily treated with broadband bass traps (DIY) due to the small size and dimensions. The surround/back speakers show very little roll off due to them being much closer to the mic during calibration. I keep midrange compensation off (IIRC, it was designed more for horn-loaded speakers, correct me if I'm wrong). L/R speakers are NHT Classic Fours. Here is my graph report:

Originally Posted by tandy1000rl

With all the debate in the other Audyssey thread about HF brightness, large rooms, etc, I'm beginning to wonder if I have an issue with premature roll-off of high frequencies in the main speakers in my large room.

Originally Posted by cavchameleon

Hi,

I think a lot matters with what's in the room, not just room size. My room is only 1250 cubic feet and I get a high freq roll-off (pre- Audyssey) like your big room. The room is heavily treated with broadband bass traps (DIY) due to the small size and dimensions. The surround/back speakers show very little roll off due to them being much closer to the mic during calibration. I keep midrange compensation off (IIRC, it was designed more for horn-loaded speakers, correct me if I'm wrong). L/R speakers are NHT Classic Fours. Here is my graph report:

Originally Posted by goneten

I asked this question in the FAQ but I think I might get a quicker response here. Does anyone how XT32 compares to the Pro kit? Any Pro users who switched to XT32, or vice-versa? I've just been hearing such good things about XT32 lately, so I thought I'd ask the Pro users.

Originally Posted by pepar

tandy1000rl - You might have posted this somewhere already, but to confirm, you are selecting the small room and large room targets for the respective rooms, right?

Jeff

Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215

I think the Target Curve #1 is supposed to slope down by 2 dB between 4k and 10k. Not sure about #2, but I think it may be the same. Though my room is larger than 5,000 cu. ft., I prefer to stay with curve #1. Classical music concert hall sound is my subjective reference. But, it all depends on your room, system and tastes.