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post #2371 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I have a slightly different perspective. When I run a Pro calibration, my sub distances always come up slightly different, even though I carefully use the same measurement positions. The differences are small, usually less than .5 ft. Also, I am in the habit of always re-checking the sub distance tweaks after a new calibration. When the Audyssey-calculated sub distances are slightly different, I find that the optimum distance tweak changes slightly as well.

So, the point I am trying to make is, unless you re-measured with OM after the recent calibration, you can't be absolutely sure that your sub distances are indeed still optimized. I would hope this were the case, rather than believe that Audyssey "gets it right" sometimes, and not others.

I dunno, Jerry. I will always use OM now, as you suggest, after a calibration to check the sub distances and see if I can improve the graph. Trust but verify.
post #2372 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

So, unless the sub level match screen is used and a fresh calibration is done, loading a calibration changes neither sub distances or trims ... ?

Jeff

I am fairly sure that is what I found too. I won't reload any calibration now without making sure I have a note of the trim and distance settings from the original cal, so that I can re-enter them manually. I'll be glad when Audyssey iron out this bug as it weakens my confidence in the product. So far, I feel much happier with a totally new cal than reloading one. Probably me being OCD about it, but it's still real (for me) whatever the reason.
post #2373 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post

Hey guys,

I just did a 12 point Audyssey Calibration and to my ears it sounds pretty damn awesome!...Can hear stuff I couldnt hear before, its made it crystal like so far!. Dialog is a tiny bit low and might increase the center channel by 1db, if that is ok?.

It's fine to raise the trim and it doesn't affect the calibration. But often there is a reason why the dialogue is not as clear as it should be and that might be worth investigation. Check out the FAQ, here for starters:

2. Why is dialogue from the centre channel difficult to hear or understand? (click here)

Quote:


But have a look and tell me what you think!. I dont have stuff like Omni Mic installed to tell you what really is going on in the room. But here is the certificate anyway

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...rtificate.jpg/

Cheers,
Kevin

What do you think is causing that huge dip in the surround speakers? Audyssey is doing a good job of correcting it, but what do you think is causing it in the first place? EDIT: I see Harrison beat me to it and is also unsure what is causing it. What make/model are the surrounds?
post #2374 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post

Yeah but I thought it's better to calibrate the room the way its gonna be all the time?...If I put the blanket over the coffee table and then remove it after the calibration?....Wouldnt that just defeat the purpose? or does it still work?

That is correct - the guys are suggesting you do it just to see the effect it has. If it sorts out the problem then you know where to go next.

Quote:


Ive been trying to get the wife to let me put a table cloth over it atleast but she keeps saying "no" lol.

Yeah, she will do that You have to counter-offer a new purse or new shoes.
post #2375 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post

Yeah but I thought it's better to calibrate the room the way its gonna be all the time?...If I put the blanket over the coffee table and then remove it after the calibration?....Wouldnt that just defeat the purpose? or does it still work?

Ive been trying to get the wife to let me put a table cloth over it atleast but she keeps saying "no" lol.

Just trying to see if cutting reflections helps out. I suggested papers or magazines since if it I'd work you could leave them there and neaten up when needed.
post #2376 of 5281
Hey guys,
As promised (threatened?), I've finally had a few spare hours to work up some OmniMic measurements of my Pro calibration. Let's just say that the OM is finding some dips that weren't particularly obvious on the Pro "After" curve. FYI, both of my HSU subs were at 0 phase, and run with ULF trim of 50 Hz as per Dr. Hsu's advice on the ULS-15 thread, and the L/R mains were crossed at 60 Hz.

I ran the curves with sine sweep (track 2), only the mains and subs on, and all channel stereo. The blended curve setting @ 5 msec and 1/24 octave smoothing were also in play.

First up is the "Pre" Audyssey curve:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...osurround.jpg/

There's room gain driving the curve up until about 40 Hz, and then dips at about 46, 59, and 90-95 Hz. Fairly hideous, huh?

Here's what Audyssey did:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...osurround.jpg/

The resulting curve is flatter, but it doesn't seem that those dips were addressed.

However, I tried the 'phase' adjustment on the subs on the initial Audyssey run. The next plot has the left sub only set to 180 in purple, and a curve with the right sub only set to 180 in green, with the 0 phase for both subs in red:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...rroundand.jpg/

It seems that either phase switch is helping with the 46 and 59 Hz dips, and making the dip @ 90 Hz worse. I'm also getting different handling of the "room gain" < 20 Hz, with the 0/180 version of the plot looking like it's making the lower frequency flatter. However, I have more of a peak where I had the dip before.

What's the advice of the Pro gurus? I'm tempted to rerun Audyssey with the 0/180 left/right sub plot before I do anything else. But what about that 90 Hz dip?

Note that I don't have my powered center included right now. I'm still waiting for my vaporware Lovan standalone center stand to liberate the center for better powered bass and a 60 or 80 Hz crossover.

Thoughts?

Chris: this is what you've been waiting for

Stuart
post #2377 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post


If the system now sounds "pretty damn awesome", my suggestion would be to first be sure you have the correct sound processing settings with the AVR and then, if that doesn't fix it, simply turn up the center channel a dB or two.

Then sit back with a drink and enjoy some movies.

I've got everything set to straight decode. Cheers and thanks for the tip.
post #2378 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


It's fine to raise the trim and it doesn't affect the calibration. But often there is a reason why the dialogue is not as clear as it should be and that might be worth investigation. Check out the FAQ, here for starters:

2. Why is dialogue from the centre channel difficult to hear or understand? (click here)

What do you think is causing that huge dip in the surround speakers? Audyssey is doing a good job of correcting it, but what do you think is causing it in the first place? EDIT: I see Harrison beat me to it and is also unsure what is causing it. What make/model are the surrounds?

They are old Jensen speakers. ****** ones lol. I'll be upgrading the rear stage when I build my own ht in a few years. They placed directly behind me coz I have two massive windows one the left and right side of the room with no mounting options. They arnt dipoles just normal bookshelves.
post #2379 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Hey guys,
As promised (threatened?), I've finally had a few spare hours to work up some OmniMic measurements of my Pro calibration. Let's just say that the OM is finding some dips that weren't particularly obvious on the Pro "After" curve. FYI, both of my HSU subs were at 0 phase, and run with ULS trim of 50 Hz as per Dr. Hsu's advice on the ULS-15 thread, and the L/R mains were crossed at 60 Hz.

I ran the curves with sine sweep (track 2), only the mains and subs on, and all channel stereo. The blended curve setting @ 5 msec and 1/24 octave smoothing were also in play.

First up is the "Pre" Audyssey curve:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...osurround.jpg/

There's room gain driving the curve up until about 40 Hz, and then dips at about 46, 59, and 90-95 Hz. Fairly hideous, huh?

Here's what Audyssey did:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...osurround.jpg/

The resulting curve is flatter, but it doesn't seem that those dips were addressed.

However, I tried the 'phase' adjustment on the subs on the initial Audyssey run. The next plot has the left sub only set to 180 in purple, and a curve with the right sub only set to 180 in right, with the 0 phase for both subs in red:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...rroundand.jpg/

It seems that either phase switch is helping with the 46 and 59 Hz dips, and making the dip @ 90 Hz worse. I'm also getting different handling of the "room gain" < 20 Hz, with the 0/180 version of the plot looking like it's making the lower frequency flatter. However, I have more of a peak where I had the drip before.

What's the advice of the Pro gurus? I'm tempted to rerun Audyssey with the 0/180 left/right sub plot before I do anything else. But what about that 90 Hz dip?

Note that I don't have my powered center included right now. I'm still waiting for my vaporware Lovan standalone center stand to liberate the center for better powered bass and a 60 or 80 Hz crossover.

Thoughts?

Chris: this is what you've been waiting for

Edit: if it doesn't show up I'm sending these as attachments when I'm back from dinner.

Stuart

Stuart, I have ULS-15's as well. I always leave the polarity switch at 0, regardless of what Dr Hsu says. I also run the ULF trim at 16 Hz. I posted several graphs on the ULS-15 thread that showed the response for various ULF trim settings. This control has nothing to do with the flatness of the curves.

Just curious, why did you run all-channel stereo? Not sure this would affect anything, but I would use plain stereo.

Otherwise, what you see in your response graphs is what you get. Improvement suggestions include the usual: more subs, different positioning, and bass traps. The path is never easy.
post #2380 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

A few photos would be helpful as well.


Glass coffeetables are often cited as suspect in dialog problems. One should indeed do the calibration with everything in place as it will be when listening critically. Trimming the CC up is perfectly fine with your current cal. If that doesn't work, might she agree to consider an acoustically transparent coffeetable? see discussion here.

Another idea: I'd try putting a folded up blanket on the table (a tablecloth is unlikely to work well enough. Does it help? If so, use it when it won't bother SWMBO. Next cal, put the blanket there during the cal and continue blanket use as described.


Hey mate,

Here are the pics of the room, not the best quality but you can get a good idea of it.

Front of Room
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2...0512124045.jpg

Rear of Room
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4...0512124101.jpg

System:

Seaton Sound 12C x3
Jensen SPX series rear speakers ********
Emotiva XPA5 powering the rear speakers
Seaton Sound Submersives x2
Oppo BDP-83
Popcorn Hour C200
Integra DHC 80.3

Everything is connected via XLR cables and no RCA's.


Thanks for all of this guys
post #2381 of 5281
Nice system! Love those LCR's , and Submersives! That is one of the few systems that could drag me away from my DIY project...
post #2382 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post


Hey mate,

Here are the pics of the room, not the best quality but you can get a good idea of it.

Front of Room
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2...0512124045.jpg

Rear of Room
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4...0512124101.jpg

System:

Seaton Sound 12C x3
Jensen SPX series rear speakers ********
Emotiva XPA5 powering the rear speakers
Seaton Sound Submersives x2
Oppo BDP-83
Popcorn Hour C200
Integra DHC 80.3

Everything is connected via XLR cables and no RCA's.

Thanks for all of this guys

Can you pull out your center speaker an inch or so so it is over the edge and then tilt it up ever so slightly.

Have your tried closing the curtains in terms of helping your dialogue issue.

Nice room.
post #2383 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Stuart, I have ULS-15's as well. I always leave the polarity switch at 0, regardless of what Dr Hsu says. I also run the ULF trim at 16 Hz. I posted several graphs on the ULS-15 thread that showed the response for various ULF trim settings. This control has nothing to do with the flatness of the curves.

Just curious, why did you run all-channel stereo? Not sure this would affect anything, but I would use plain stereo.

Otherwise, what you see in your response graphs is what you get. Improvement suggestions include the usual: more subs, different positioning, and bass traps. The path is never easy.

I had a feeling you'd say that.... but the details are the part that count.

To your question: I ran all-channel stereo with the intent of eventually testing the center with and without the subs, or possibly all three front speakers with/without subs. I've got Mythos ST powered L/R fronts and the CS-8080 powered center, so how they can fill in the bass around and above the crossover is worth tracking.

I tend to prefer multichannel music (DVD-Audio/SACD, concert DVDs & BluRays) and HT over simple two-channel stereo, so I'm thinking ahead. Perhaps I should use Dolby PLII, but I wanted the most monophonic signal going into my speakers for OM testing. Thus all-channel stereo vs. pure stereo.

With those dips, I was thinking that the phase switch would help enough that I could reverse the two dips (as shown on the last chart with the right sub at 180 degrees in green). Then I'd rerun Audyssey to flatten out the peaks that I'm seeing right now at 46 Hz and 59 Hz (possibly with 16 Hz trim). I'd want to redo the "pre" plot with the phase switch first to see if the "peak" after the phase reversal is real or an Audyssey artifact, though.

I'm also going to rerun the plot with the 80 Hz crossover for the fronts. It may not help with that 45 Hz dip at 0 phase for both subs, but it may alleviate the 59 Hz one.

As to the 90 Hz dip/null: maybe the distance adjustment, after all that, will help, or when I can _finally_ get the center out of the cabinet where I can get more bass response from it. So in a manner of speaking, I'm getting more "sub" a/k/a mid-bass response if the powered center is there to supply it in the 60 to 100 Hz crossover range.

Hope that make sense, at least as the next steps I'm going to try.
post #2384 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Nice system! Love those LCR's , and Submersives! That is one of the few systems that could drag me away from my DIY project...

Yeah, they are pretty damn awesome...even the misses loves the sound they produce . Best investment I have ever made and will not upgrade my speakers for a verrrry long time....if ever! lol. Ive gone to old HT shops that I used to go to demo their systems and their systems sound so plain compared to mine. Love that! haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Can you pull out your center speaker an inch or so so it is over the edge and then tilt it up ever so slightly.

Have your tried closing the curtains in terms of helping your dialogue issue.

Nice room.

Will do that mate, thanks for the tip....but Im honestly starting to think it was just the movie I watched lol...it was an old movie which was a dvd and not a bluray and now I put the blurays and the dialog is clear as hell! and pretty loud too. Which is great so must of been the movie I had in!
post #2385 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post

Will do that mate, thanks for the tip....but Im honestly starting to think it was just the movie I watched lol...it was an old movie which was a dvd and not a bluray and now I put the blurays and the dialog is clear as hell! and pretty loud too. Which is great so must of been the movie I had in!

I told you to grab a drink and enjoy right from the start! Jeez, telling someone to grab a drink one time is all it should take...
post #2386 of 5281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post

....but Im honestly starting to think it was just the movie I watched lol...it was an old movie which was a dvd and not a bluray and now I put the blurays and the dialog is clear as hell! and pretty loud too. Which is great so must of been the movie I had in!

I have two favorite scenes to test dialog
1. After the Battle, still blodied, as our protagonist enters the tent where the Senators are celebrating. There is lots of background noise and some of the dialog is fast paced while characters are in motion. If it sounds clear to me, CC is good.

2. The scene from Master and Cmdr when the young officers sound all hands because one thinks he's spotted an enemy warship. They confer softly in English accents, more of a challenge for me.

That film also has good test scenes for sub/surround capability and integration-great cannon fullisades which rip through the walls of your HT from front to back. Some parts of that soundtrack have great delicate ambiance, with ship creaks etc. Oh, and there's a cool passage where you can listen to the footsteps as they tromp up the wooden stairs to the deck "overhead".

For surround bubble I like the opening scene of Sherlock Holmes, with the street noises, horse hooves passing from one speaker to the next, etc. The tango music as he chases the love interest through the streets is wonderful as well.
post #2387 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I told you to grab a drink and enjoy right from the start! Jeez, telling someone to grab a drink one time is all it should take...

LOL!!!..........sipping on some fine red wine now mate! hahaha!. Although its a bit to late to crank up a movie on the HT since its 1am here!.

Mothers Day is today in Aus..and the wife is taking her mother out tonight. So ill have a good night to myself. Will put in Mission Impossible 4 - Ghost Protocol, heard that has a pretty beasty soundtrack!
post #2388 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

I have two favorite scenes to test dialog
1. After the Battle, still blodied, as our protagonist enters the tent where the Senators are celebrating. There is lots of background noise and some of the dialog is fast paced while characters are in motion. If it sounds clear to me, CC is good.

2. The scene from Master and Cmdr when the young officers sound all hands because one thinks he's spotted an enemy warship. They confer softly in English accents, more of a challenge for me.

That film also has good test scenes for sub/surround capability and integration-great cannon fullisades which rip through the walls of your HT from front to back. Some parts of that soundtrack have great delicate ambiance, with ship creaks etc. Oh, and there's a cool passage where you can listen to the footsteps as they tromp up the wooden stairs to the deck "overhead".

For surround bubble I like the opening scene of Sherlock Holmes, with the street noises, horse hooves passing from one speaker to the next, etc. The tango music as he chases the love interest through the streets is wonderful as well.

Thanks SoM,

I have most of the movies and will report back tommorow. Just for curiousity sakes...what volume to do you guys listen to your movies at?. I usually have mine at -8 to -5db. 0 is just too damn loud lol!
post #2389 of 5281
-6dB usually for movies ... -5.5dB occasionally. SACD/DVD-A sometimes up to -3dB ... sometimes a little higher depending on the recording.

At -6dB on my system, whispers sound like whispers and explosions sound like explosions.

Jeff
post #2390 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

-6dB usually for movies ... -5.5dB occasionally. SACD/DVD-A sometimes up to -3dB ... sometimes a little higher depending on the recording.

At -6dB on my system, whispers sound like whispers and explosions sound like explosions.

Jeff

Agreed, same with my system now. Since upgrading from the 4311 to the DHC 80.3. I had a massive increase in dynamic range when I upgraded to the 80.3.

I had the 4311 for over a year and for some reason it just sounded dull to me and was not very dynamic or crisp sounding like the 80.3. I had the 4311 pro calibrated as well and ran so many cals and it improved the sound...just the dynamics werent as prominent as it is with the 80.3.

80.3 has really put new breath of life through my system and I rank it right up there with one of my mates system who has the same speakers as me and he uses a Anthem D2V....heard both and I honestly could not tell the difference! lol. I didnt A-B test them at the same time.....but listening to the D2V didnt leave me wanting!...which is a good sign I guess!. Very happy with the Integra!
post #2391 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post

I had the 4311 for over a year and for some reason it just sounded dull to me and was not very dynamic or crisp sounding like the 80.3. I had the 4311 pro calibrated as well and ran so many cals and it improved the sound...just the dynamics werent as prominent as it is with the 80.3.

This is the same as my experience. I've been trying to convince people (in the UK) that Denon doesn't sound as detailed and dynamic as Onkyo, regardless of them both using XT32. But not many people will listen. Their loss, I say!!
post #2392 of 5281
A recurring theme on this thread and in the main Audyssey thread is the varying results we get with different calibrations. I have tried to establish a repeatable process, using the same measurement positions, mic height, etc. to obtain predictability from one calibration to the next.

Recently, I started saving screen shots of the EQ curves that Denon provides. While not particularly useful in themselves, they are a rough indicator of the corrections Audyssey is making. In the three most recent calibrations I have made, I notice a distinct difference in the left front EQ graph, yet for each of these calibrations, nothing has changed that would explain the differences--no furniture movements, no speaker movements, same measurement points, same x-over settings, etc. Also, I can't hear any differences.

I have attached the EQ screenshots to demonstrate the differences. Does anyone have a theory why the left channel would vary so much, while the right channel stays so consistent? All other channels are also consistent.

post #2393 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

In the three most recent calibrations I have made, I notice a distinct difference in the left front EQ graph, yet for each of these calibrations, nothing has changed that would explain the differences--no furniture movements, no speaker movements, same measurement points, same x-over settings, etc. Also, I can't hear any differences.

That's insane, at least at first sight.

First, I would confirm with in-room and pre-out measurements using, e.g., REW.

Second, I would look to room asymmetries: is one side of your room closed and the other open?
post #2394 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneV View Post

That's insane, at least at first sight.

First, I would confirm with in-room and pre-out measurements using, e.g., REW.

Second, I would look to room asymmetries: is one side of your room closed and the other open?

Hi Rene,

Well, it is difficult to go back to previous calibrations. However, I always generate an REW 8-position average, using the first 8 Pro measurement points.

As for the room, the right side wall is shorter than the left side wall (i.e. the right side opens to an entry way). Since the room doesn't change between calibrations, shouldn't any room effects be the same for each calibration?





post #2395 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

As for the room, the right side wall is shorter than the left side wall (i.e. the right side opens to an entry way). Since the room doesn't change between calibrations, shouldn't any room effects be the same for each calibration?

I've found that an asymmetric room gives non-repeatable calibrations. In my case, the open side is much flatter across the uncalibrated frequencies than the closed one, which makes the calibration somewhat sensitive to mic positions. I put in wide-spectrum absorption and bass traps on the closed side of my room to counterpoint the openings on the other side, and got consistent calibrations from that point on.

Now, all of this is somewhat academic seeing that you seem to have a nice in-room FR. If you're dedicated, you might want to try to map out the uncalibrated acoustic asymmetries in your room to get a better sense of what Audyssey is seeing ...

Edit: in my case, I get a flat average response but one particular frequency range pivots around the center seat: the left seat is down and up on either side of the center of the range, while the right is up and down.
post #2396 of 5281
Good feedback, Rene, thanks.
post #2397 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

A recurring theme on this thread and in the main Audyssey thread is the varying results we get with different calibrations. I have tried to establish a repeatable process, using the same measurement positions, mic height, etc. to obtain predictability from one calibration to the next.

Recently, I started saving screen shots of the EQ curves that Denon provides. While not particularly useful in themselves, they are a rough indicator of the corrections Audyssey is making. In the three most recent calibrations I have made, I notice a distinct difference in the left front EQ graph, yet for each of these calibrations, nothing has changed that would explain the differences--no furniture movements, no speaker movements, same measurement points, same x-over settings, etc. Also, I can't hear any differences.

I have attached the EQ screenshots to demonstrate the differences. Does anyone have a theory why the left channel would vary so much, while the right channel stays so consistent? All other channels are also consistent.


I think it is a question best answered by Audyssey themselves. I am assuming you, yourself are not In the room during measurements, as you are yourself something of an absorbent body.

I also do not know how precisely you can reset the mike for successive calibrations, possibly also including mike boom position. I am sure it is close, but somewhat imprecise. It should not matter to the extent shown in your graphs, but room acoustics is sometimes tricky. It seems unlikely to be a cause here, because only one channel is affected.

There is also the possibility of some unnoticed random external noise during the calibration, some appliance, perhaps, close to the offending channel. Just speculating.
post #2398 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

I think it is a question best answered by Audyssey themselves. I am assuming you, yourself are not In the room during measurements, as you are yourself something of an absorbent body.

I also do not know how precisely you can reset the mike for successive calibrations, possibly also including mike boom position. I am sure it is close, but somewhat imprecise. It should not matter to the extent shown in your graphs, but room acoustics is sometimes tricky. It seems unlikely to be a cause here, because only one channel is affected.

There is also the possibility of some unnoticed random external noise during the calibration, some appliance, perhaps, close to the offending channel. Just speculating.

I know I could lose a few pounds , but no, I use a PC in the next room to control the calibration, entering the listening room only to move the mic to the next position. Room response can vary significantly with a small distance change, of course, but the method I use for mic placement results in a variability of one inch or less, I would guess. And external noise should not be a factor--I turn off the HVAC, refrigerator, lights, etc., and remove wireless devices. I am a bit OCD about the process, so that's why the left channel variability has me confused.

Perhaps you are right, I should take this to Ask Audyssey.
post #2399 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

I think it is a question best answered by Audyssey themselves.

Response from Ask Audyssey:

Chris Kyriakakis, May 13 10:54 pm (PDT):

Hi Jerry,

I am fairly certain this is a peculiarity in the Denon graph. We have literally hundreds of repeatability measurements that show there is little variation if nothing has changed in the room. I don't quite know how they draw the graph, but something must be causing it to change. The first two graphs are actually close except for a little more roll off in the second one. The third one may have been influenced by low frequency rumble. Hard to say.

Chris


Good enough, let's move on...
post #2400 of 5281
I am running highly efficient Klipsch speakers in a 11.2 A-DSX system, driven by a Denon AVR-A100 in preamp mode, which in turn is driving 11 channels of Emotiva 200W amps (yes, I know, overkill, but the system's dynamic range is incredible!). 5 of the speakers are rated at 105db @ 1w @ 1 meter sensitivity (4 Klipschorns and a Belle center). 6 are rated 99db @ 1w @ 1 meter (Heresy IIIs).

For the Klipschorns and Belle, Audyssey Pro sets all channel levels at -12, the bottom for the Denon. The Heresy III channels are set at approximately -6 with some small variations. Thus, it is easy to conclude that the channel level settings are reasonable and agree with the relative difference in speaker sensitivity. The surrounds, wides, and heights sound about right in relative volume to the other channels.

Post calibration, if I pull out the RS meter and use the Denon's internal "tones", the Heresy IIIs measure way low - several db. They sound much lower in volume during a manual channel level check. When I manually bring them up to match, again using the RS meter, and play back a movie, those speakers are way too loud in relation to the K'horns and Belle. This is repeatable and I am careful to manually turn Dyn EQ off prior to calibration - although I thought Audyssey does that for me.

So, what do you think is going on? I would think that Audyssey would use the most efficient speakers as a baseline and adjust the others in relation. Is that assumption correct? I have a lot of bass trapping in the room as well as some side wall first reflection absorption. Could that be tricking the RS meter, whereas Audyssey recognizes it and compensates? But, again, the difference is clearly audible.

Again, by far the levels set by Audyssey sound the best. I suppose I could put 6db attenuators in line with the amp channels driving the most sensitive speakers, but kind of hate to put anything else in line.

Thanks for your input.
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