The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 80

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

I have a slightly different perspective. When I run a Pro calibration, my sub distances always come up slightly different, even though I carefully use the same measurement positions. The differences are small, usually less than .5 ft. Also, I am in the habit of always re-checking the sub distance tweaks after a new calibration. When the Audyssey-calculated sub distances are slightly different, I find that the optimum distance tweak changes slightly as well.

So, the point I am trying to make is, unless you re-measured with OM after the recent calibration, you can't be absolutely sure that your sub distances are indeed still optimized. I would hope this were the case, rather than believe that Audyssey "gets it right" sometimes, and not others.

Originally Posted by pepar

So, unless the sub level match screen is used and a fresh calibration is done, loading a calibration changes neither sub distances or trims ... ?

Jeff

Originally Posted by buddhamus

Hey guys,

I just did a 12 point Audyssey Calibration and to my ears it sounds pretty damn awesome!...Can hear stuff I couldnt hear before, its made it crystal like so far!. Dialog is a tiny bit low and might increase the center channel by 1db, if that is ok?.

But have a look and tell me what you think!. I dont have stuff like Omni Mic installed to tell you what really is going on in the room. But here is the certificate anyway

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...rtificate.jpg/

Cheers,
Kevin

Originally Posted by buddhamus

Yeah but I thought it's better to calibrate the room the way its gonna be all the time?...If I put the blanket over the coffee table and then remove it after the calibration?....Wouldnt that just defeat the purpose? or does it still work?

Ive been trying to get the wife to let me put a table cloth over it atleast but she keeps saying "no" lol.

Originally Posted by buddhamus

Yeah but I thought it's better to calibrate the room the way its gonna be all the time?...If I put the blanket over the coffee table and then remove it after the calibration?....Wouldnt that just defeat the purpose? or does it still work?

Ive been trying to get the wife to let me put a table cloth over it atleast but she keeps saying "no" lol.

Originally Posted by Gooddoc


If the system now sounds "pretty damn awesome", my suggestion would be to first be sure you have the correct sound processing settings with the AVR and then, if that doesn't fix it, simply turn up the center channel a dB or two.

Then sit back with a drink and enjoy some movies.

Originally Posted by kbarnes701


It's fine to raise the trim and it doesn't affect the calibration. But often there is a reason why the dialogue is not as clear as it should be and that might be worth investigation. Check out the FAQ, here for starters:

2. Why is dialogue from the centre channel difficult to hear or understand? (click here)

What do you think is causing that huge dip in the surround speakers? Audyssey is doing a good job of correcting it, but what do you think is causing it in the first place? EDIT: I see Harrison beat me to it and is also unsure what is causing it. What make/model are the surrounds?

Originally Posted by sdrucker

Hey guys,
As promised (threatened?), I've finally had a few spare hours to work up some OmniMic measurements of my Pro calibration. Let's just say that the OM is finding some dips that weren't particularly obvious on the Pro "After" curve. FYI, both of my HSU subs were at 0 phase, and run with ULS trim of 50 Hz as per Dr. Hsu's advice on the ULS-15 thread, and the L/R mains were crossed at 60 Hz.

I ran the curves with sine sweep (track 2), only the mains and subs on, and all channel stereo. The blended curve setting @ 5 msec and 1/24 octave smoothing were also in play.

First up is the "Pre" Audyssey curve:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...osurround.jpg/

There's room gain driving the curve up until about 40 Hz, and then dips at about 46, 59, and 90-95 Hz. Fairly hideous, huh?

Here's what Audyssey did:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...osurround.jpg/

The resulting curve is flatter, but it doesn't seem that those dips were addressed.

However, I tried the 'phase' adjustment on the subs on the initial Audyssey run. The next plot has the left sub only set to 180 in purple, and a curve with the right sub only set to 180 in right, with the 0 phase for both subs in red:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...rroundand.jpg/

It seems that either phase switch is helping with the 46 and 59 Hz dips, and making the dip @ 90 Hz worse. I'm also getting different handling of the "room gain" < 20 Hz, with the 0/180 version of the plot looking like it's making the lower frequency flatter. However, I have more of a peak where I had the drip before.

What's the advice of the Pro gurus? I'm tempted to rerun Audyssey with the 0/180 left/right sub plot before I do anything else. But what about that 90 Hz dip?

Note that I don't have my powered center included right now. I'm still waiting for my vaporware Lovan standalone center stand to liberate the center for better powered bass and a 60 or 80 Hz crossover.

Thoughts?

Chris: this is what you've been waiting for

Edit: if it doesn't show up I'm sending these as attachments when I'm back from dinner.

Stuart

Originally Posted by SoundofMind

A few photos would be helpful as well.


Glass coffeetables are often cited as suspect in dialog problems. One should indeed do the calibration with everything in place as it will be when listening critically. Trimming the CC up is perfectly fine with your current cal. If that doesn't work, might she agree to consider an acoustically transparent coffeetable? see discussion here.

Another idea: I'd try putting a folded up blanket on the table (a tablecloth is unlikely to work well enough. Does it help? If so, use it when it won't bother SWMBO. Next cal, put the blanket there during the cal and continue blanket use as described.

Originally Posted by buddhamus


Hey mate,

Here are the pics of the room, not the best quality but you can get a good idea of it.

Front of Room
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2...0512124045.jpg

Rear of Room
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4...0512124101.jpg

System:

Seaton Sound 12C x3
Jensen SPX series rear speakers ********
Emotiva XPA5 powering the rear speakers
Seaton Sound Submersives x2
Oppo BDP-83
Popcorn Hour C200
Integra DHC 80.3

Everything is connected via XLR cables and no RCA's.

Thanks for all of this guys

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

Stuart, I have ULS-15's as well. I always leave the polarity switch at 0, regardless of what Dr Hsu says. I also run the ULF trim at 16 Hz. I posted several graphs on the ULS-15 thread that showed the response for various ULF trim settings. This control has nothing to do with the flatness of the curves.

Just curious, why did you run all-channel stereo? Not sure this would affect anything, but I would use plain stereo.

Otherwise, what you see in your response graphs is what you get. Improvement suggestions include the usual: more subs, different positioning, and bass traps. The path is never easy.

Originally Posted by Gooddoc

Nice system! Love those LCR's , and Submersives! That is one of the few systems that could drag me away from my DIY project...

Originally Posted by jmschnur

Can you pull out your center speaker an inch or so so it is over the edge and then tilt it up ever so slightly.

Have your tried closing the curtains in terms of helping your dialogue issue.

Nice room.

Originally Posted by buddhamus

Will do that mate, thanks for the tip....but Im honestly starting to think it was just the movie I watched lol...it was an old movie which was a dvd and not a bluray and now I put the blurays and the dialog is clear as hell! and pretty loud too. Which is great so must of been the movie I had in!

Originally Posted by Gooddoc

I told you to grab a drink and enjoy right from the start! Jeez, telling someone to grab a drink one time is all it should take...

Originally Posted by SoundofMind

I have two favorite scenes to test dialog
1. After the Battle, still blodied, as our protagonist enters the tent where the Senators are celebrating. There is lots of background noise and some of the dialog is fast paced while characters are in motion. If it sounds clear to me, CC is good.

2. The scene from Master and Cmdr when the young officers sound all hands because one thinks he's spotted an enemy warship. They confer softly in English accents, more of a challenge for me.

That film also has good test scenes for sub/surround capability and integration-great cannon fullisades which rip through the walls of your HT from front to back. Some parts of that soundtrack have great delicate ambiance, with ship creaks etc. Oh, and there's a cool passage where you can listen to the footsteps as they tromp up the wooden stairs to the deck "overhead".

For surround bubble I like the opening scene of Sherlock Holmes, with the street noises, horse hooves passing from one speaker to the next, etc. The tango music as he chases the love interest through the streets is wonderful as well.

Originally Posted by pepar

-6dB usually for movies ... -5.5dB occasionally. SACD/DVD-A sometimes up to -3dB ... sometimes a little higher depending on the recording.

At -6dB on my system, whispers sound like whispers and explosions sound like explosions.

Jeff

Originally Posted by buddhamus

I had the 4311 for over a year and for some reason it just sounded dull to me and was not very dynamic or crisp sounding like the 80.3. I had the 4311 pro calibrated as well and ran so many cals and it improved the sound...just the dynamics werent as prominent as it is with the 80.3.

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

In the three most recent calibrations I have made, I notice a distinct difference in the left front EQ graph, yet for each of these calibrations, nothing has changed that would explain the differences--no furniture movements, no speaker movements, same measurement points, same x-over settings, etc. Also, I can't hear any differences.

Originally Posted by ReneV

That's insane, at least at first sight.

First, I would confirm with in-room and pre-out measurements using, e.g., REW.

Second, I would look to room asymmetries: is one side of your room closed and the other open?

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

As for the room, the right side wall is shorter than the left side wall (i.e. the right side opens to an entry way). Since the room doesn't change between calibrations, shouldn't any room effects be the same for each calibration?

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

A recurring theme on this thread and in the main Audyssey thread is the varying results we get with different calibrations. I have tried to establish a repeatable process, using the same measurement positions, mic height, etc. to obtain predictability from one calibration to the next.

Recently, I started saving screen shots of the EQ curves that Denon provides. While not particularly useful in themselves, they are a rough indicator of the corrections Audyssey is making. In the three most recent calibrations I have made, I notice a distinct difference in the left front EQ graph, yet for each of these calibrations, nothing has changed that would explain the differences--no furniture movements, no speaker movements, same measurement points, same x-over settings, etc. Also, I can't hear any differences.

I have attached the EQ screenshots to demonstrate the differences. Does anyone have a theory why the left channel would vary so much, while the right channel stays so consistent? All other channels are also consistent.

Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215

I think it is a question best answered by Audyssey themselves. I am assuming you, yourself are not In the room during measurements, as you are yourself something of an absorbent body.

I also do not know how precisely you can reset the mike for successive calibrations, possibly also including mike boom position. I am sure it is close, but somewhat imprecise. It should not matter to the extent shown in your graphs, but room acoustics is sometimes tricky. It seems unlikely to be a cause here, because only one channel is affected.

There is also the possibility of some unnoticed random external noise during the calibration, some appliance, perhaps, close to the offending channel. Just speculating.

Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215

I think it is a question best answered by Audyssey themselves.