AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 81

post #2401 of 4230
5/16/12 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

I would think that Audyssey would use the most efficient speakers as a baseline and adjust the others in relation. Is that assumption correct?

No, bad assumption. Audyssey is setting each channel's levels to achieve a fixed 75dB at MLP, so that when you're at 0dB on your master volume control, you're at reference volume at the MLP. Most will find that way too loud for a home environment, so they typically listen at some dB less than reference, hence the negative numbers on the volume knob.

Your highly efficient speakers, combined with the more aggressive gain structure of the Emotiva amps, may be beyond what the Denon is able to "cut" to achieve that target (a -13 or beyond may be needed on those Klipsch's).

As far as the RS meter, I would recommend putting that in the garage sale pile, at least for checking your Pro kit calibration, since the Pro microphone is individually calibrated +/- 0.5dB while the RS is all over the place.

So what is your first impression of the pro calibration? Have you watched a blu ray on it yet?

Also, if you post your calibration certificate, we can review it to ensure you've achieved a "successful" calibration.
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2402 of 4230
5/16/12 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

I am running highly efficient Klipsch speakers in a 11.2 A-DSX system, driven by a Denon AVR-A100 in preamp mode, which in turn is driving 11 channels of Emotiva 200W amps (yes, I know, overkill, but the system's dynamic range is incredible!). 5 of the speakers are rated at 105db @ 1w @ 1 meter sensitivity (4 Klipschorns and a Belle center). 6 are rated 99db @ 1w @ 1 meter (Heresy IIIs).

For the Klipschorns and Belle, Audyssey Pro sets all channel levels at -12, the bottom for the Denon. The Heresy III channels are set at approximately -6 with some small variations. Thus, it is easy to conclude that the channel level settings are reasonable and agree with the relative difference in speaker sensitivity. The surrounds, wides, and heights sound about right in relative volume to the other channels.

Post calibration, if I pull out the RS meter and use the Denon's internal "tones", the Heresy IIIs measure way low - several db. They sound much lower in volume during a manual channel level check. When I manually bring them up to match, again using the RS meter, and play back a movie, those speakers are way too loud in relation to the K'horns and Belle. This is repeatable and I am careful to manually turn Dyn EQ off prior to calibration - although I thought Audyssey does that for me.

So, what do you think is going on? I would think that Audyssey would use the most efficient speakers as a baseline and adjust the others in relation. Is that assumption correct? I have a lot of bass trapping in the room as well as some side wall first reflection absorption. Could that be tricking the RS meter, whereas Audyssey recognizes it and compensates? But, again, the difference is clearly audible.

Again, by far the levels set by Audyssey sound the best. I suppose I could put 6db attenuators in line with the amp channels driving the most sensitive speakers, but kind of hate to put anything else in line.

Thanks for your input.

I have three ways for setting/measuring levels. The Audyssey calibration, of course, the RS SPL, and REW using an individually-calibrated EMM-6 mic. When I measure levels post-calibration, REW indicates that all speaker's in my 11.1 system are within .5 dB of 75 dB. When I use the RS SPL, the levels are not as close, with a variation of 2-3 dB. My speakers have a 90 dB efficiency rating.

My conclusion has always been that the Audyssey levels are spot-on, and that I should not count on the SPL for accuracy. It sounds like your initial listening test confirms this.

I would be more worried about the -12 setting for the Klipschorns. If -12 were not the absolute lowest level that Denon allows, would the resulting trim be even lower? There have been several discussions about inserting an attenuator in the signal path to get the trims into a lower range. Have you considered that?

Edit: Like Tandy said....
Reply
Reply
post #2403 of 4230
5/17/12 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

I am running highly efficient Klipsch speakers in a 11.2 A-DSX system, driven by a Denon AVR-A100 in preamp mode, which in turn is driving 11 channels of Emotiva 200W amps (yes, I know, overkill, but the system's dynamic range is incredible!). 5 of the speakers are rated at 105db @ 1w @ 1 meter sensitivity (4 Klipschorns and a Belle center). 6 are rated 99db @ 1w @ 1 meter (Heresy IIIs).

For the Klipschorns and Belle, Audyssey Pro sets all channel levels at -12, the bottom for the Denon. The Heresy III channels are set at approximately -6 with some small variations. Thus, it is easy to conclude that the channel level settings are reasonable and agree with the relative difference in speaker sensitivity. The surrounds, wides, and heights sound about right in relative volume to the other channels.

Post calibration, if I pull out the RS meter and use the Denon's internal "tones", the Heresy IIIs measure way low - several db. They sound much lower in volume during a manual channel level check. When I manually bring them up to match, again using the RS meter, and play back a movie, those speakers are way too loud in relation to the K'horns and Belle. This is repeatable and I am careful to manually turn Dyn EQ off prior to calibration - although I thought Audyssey does that for me.

So, what do you think is going on? I would think that Audyssey would use the most efficient speakers as a baseline and adjust the others in relation. Is that assumption correct? I have a lot of bass trapping in the room as well as some side wall first reflection absorption. Could that be tricking the RS meter, whereas Audyssey recognizes it and compensates? But, again, the difference is clearly audible.

Again, by far the levels set by Audyssey sound the best. I suppose I could put 6db attenuators in line with the amp channels driving the most sensitive speakers, but kind of hate to put anything else in line.

Thanks for your input.

Not sure if it is Audyssey or the processor that limits it, but, yes, use the attenuators and try to get all channels within 10dB or so of reference level on the test tones,then recalibrate. No need to be a fanatic about getting them all to exactly the same leve. 10dB ought to be enough tolerance for the channel trims to get everything precise.
Reply
Reply
post #2404 of 4230
5/17/12 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Not sure if it is Audyssey or the processor that limits it, but, yes, use the attenuators and try to get all channels within 10dB or so of reference level on the test tones,then recalibrate. No need to be a fanatic about getting them all to exactly the same leve. 10dB ought to be enough tolerance for the channel trims to get everything precise.

Thanks to all for the input. I bought the Pro kit in January and have run a dozen or so cals with varying mic positions. I am very much pleased with the results in comparision with stock XT32. Everything is better - FR, imaging, surround effects, low level detail, etc.

Good idea to try the attenuators. All 5 K'horn channels at -12 is suspicious, with the rears about 3 feet closer to the MLP than the fronts. I have four 6db attenuators already that I will put first in the front 3 channels and see what the levels are post-cal. Then I can get a 5th one for the remaining K'horn in the back of the room.

I actually bought the attenuators to get rid of low level hum from the Emotivas - did not help at all.
Reply
Reply
post #2405 of 4230
5/17/12 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

Thanks to all for the input. I bought the Pro kit in January and have run a dozen or so cals with varying mic positions. I am very much pleased with the results in comparision with stock XT32. Everything is better - FR, imaging, surround effects, low level detail, etc.

Good idea to try the attenuators. All 5 K'horn channels at -12 is suspicious, with the rears about 3 feet closer to the MLP than the fronts. I have four 6db attenuators already that I will put first in the front 3 channels and see what the levels are post-cal. Then I can get a 5th one for the remaining K'horn in the back of the room.

I actually bought the attenuators to get rid of low level hum from the Emotivas - did not help at all.

Or you could just wire the Khorns directly to the AVR and benefit from a much shorter and more "simplified" audio path. At some point hum has to be more unnerving than lack of headroom. Besides, does the system, especially the satellites, need to remain "effortless" at 120+ dB? ;-)

(don't mind me, I'm just jealous...) ;-)
Reply
Reply
post #2406 of 4230
5/17/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tandy1000rl View Post

Besides, does the system, especially the satellites, need to remain "effortless" at 120+ dB? ;-)

Well, YES! Actually, there is a serious downside to having this much headroom. Very easy to slip into hearing damaging levels without noticing it. Had that happen on the 25th anniversary rock and roll hall of fame blu ray (fantastic concert by the way.) Had the system jamming for about 20 mins or so and ears were ringing afterward for an hour or so.
Reply
Reply
post #2407 of 4230
5/17/12 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

Well, YES! Actually, there is a serious downside to having this much headroom. Very easy to slip into hearing damaging levels without noticing it. Had that happen on the 25th anniversary rock and roll hall of fame blu ray (fantastic concert by the way.) Had the system jamming for about 20 mins or so and ears were ringing afterward for an hour or so.

Yikes! So since the calibration routine tries to set MLP to 75 dB, so that one hits reference volume at 0 dB on volume knob, are you listening to such concerts at +10 dB levels and beyond?

I can't imagine even listening at 0dB, but perhaps my system sounds "louder" at that level due to compression/lack of headroom, while on yours, 0dB is so effortless that it's not as obnoxious nor "loud"...hence your point about it being easy to overdo it without even realizing it! Rock on!
Reply
Reply
post #2408 of 4230
5/17/12 at 12:09pm
Thinking back, before I added the Emotivas, the Denon had the 3 front channels at -12 after Pro Cal. Add in the gain of the amps, and I think putting the 6db attenuators in is a waste of time. So, I ordered enough 12db attenuators for the 5 K'horn and Belle channels. Certainly that will bring everything into line.

I always leave Dyn EQ on. I wonder if the extra loudness in the surrounds that I hear when I manually set channel levels is Dyn EQ acting incorrectly due to the channel level mismatches. We'll see...
Reply
Reply
post #2409 of 4230
5/17/12 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

Thinking back, before I added the Emotivas, the Denon had the 3 front channels at -12 after Pro Cal. Add in the gain of the amps, and I think putting the 6db attenuators in is a waste of time. So, I ordered enough 12db attenuators for the 5 K'horn and Belle channels. Certainly that will bring everything into line.

I always leave Dyn EQ on. I wonder if the extra loudness in the surrounds that I hear when I manually set channel levels is Dyn EQ acting incorrectly due to the channel level mismatches. We'll see...

Dynamic EQ is likely not acting incorrectly. Since you are running the volume low to compensate for the extra gain in the amps and speaker sensitivity, you are getting more action from DEQ than you should. DEQ takes its queue from the volume setting. It's effect will be softened when you get the attenuaters installed.

The 12 db attenuaters are the right choice ... will get you closer to 0 db and give you some elbow room for future room or amp or speaker changes.

Assuming the Emotivas and the built-in amps are both Class AB, one has to wonder where the change from Class A to Class B occurs. The Klipsch are so efficient that you are probably in the Class A region of either amp most of the time. But, if one of the amps has a larger class A region it will give you somewhat more linear output. I used to run external amps that were massive overkill power-wise for my Klipsch speakers on that basis, but they took up a lot of room and generated a lot of heat in my living room. I finally dropped back to the amps in the receiver and didn't notice a difference. The higher THD rating of the receiver's built-in amps is probably more of an issue than whether one exceeds the Class A region, but even that seems to be a non-issue. I'm not suggesting that you change anything!!! Just thinking out loud. That always gets a response here.
Reply
Reply
post #2410 of 4230
5/17/12 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

Thinking back, before I added the Emotivas, the Denon had the 3 front channels at -12 after Pro Cal. Add in the gain of the amps, and I think putting the 6db attenuators in is a waste of time. So, I ordered enough 12db attenuators for the 5 K'horn and Belle channels. Certainly that will bring everything into line.

I always leave Dyn EQ on. I wonder if the extra loudness in the surrounds that I hear when I manually set channel levels is Dyn EQ acting incorrectly due to the channel level mismatches. We'll see...

Would you mind sharing the attenuators you're using and where from? Thx
Reply
Reply
post #2411 of 4230
5/17/12 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Would you mind sharing the attenuators you're using and where from? Thx

Harrison Labs 12 dB RCA Line Level Attenuator $25.90 per pair. Parts Express, but I bought them via the Amazon storefront for Parts Express (no price difference, just more convenient for me.) They have 3db, 6db, and 12db - all the same price.

Parts Express has some that are much less expensive, but from user reviews they are low quality.

These are certainly not high tech. All it is, is a connector shell with a couple of resistors in them. You can build them yourself if you can figure out the resistor values.
Reply
Reply
post #2412 of 4230
5/17/12 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

My conclusion has always been that the Audyssey levels are spot-on, and that I should not count on the SPL for accuracy.

Agreed. I was using the RS meter for relative channel levels, not for absolute SPL measurement.
Reply
Reply
post #2413 of 4230
5/17/12 at 5:50pm
Thx hjones
Reply
Reply
post #2414 of 4230
5/18/12 at 1:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hclarkx View Post

Dynamic EQ is likely not acting incorrectly. Since you are running the volume low to compensate for the extra gain in the amps and speaker sensitivity, you are getting more action from DEQ than you should. DEQ takes its queue from the volume setting. It's effect will be softened when you get the attenuaters installed.

The 12 db attenuaters are the right choice ... will get you closer to 0 db and give you some elbow room for future room or amp or speaker changes.

Assuming the Emotivas and the built-in amps are both Class AB, one has to wonder where the change from Class A to Class B occurs. The Klipsch are so efficient that you are probably in the Class A region of either amp most of the time. But, if one of the amps has a larger class A region it will give you somewhat more linear output. I used to run external amps that were massive overkill power-wise for my Klipsch speakers on that basis, but they took up a lot of room and generated a lot of heat in my living room. I finally dropped back to the amps in the receiver and didn't notice a difference. The higher THD rating of the receiver's built-in amps is probably more of an issue than whether one exceeds the Class A region, but even that seems to be a non-issue. I'm not suggesting that you change anything!!! Just thinking out loud. That always gets a response here.

This doesn't seem to be true, because DEQ doesn't really care about the volume pos, but the level that has been established by its measurements. Therefore DEQ is only available after Audyssey has gone through its measurement parcours. How this level is been established doesn't matter as long as you stay within the available correction window.
Reply
Reply
post #2415 of 4230
5/18/12 at 2:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

This doesn't seem to be true, because DEQ doesn't really care about the volume pos, but the level that has been established by its measurements. Therefore DEQ is only available after Audyssey has gone through its measurement parcours. How this level is been established doesn't matter as long as you stay within the available correction window.

Interesting test last night. I turned DEQ off, got out the RS meter and manually adjusted levels to match. Listened for a while and the balance with the surrounds sounded about right. Turned DEQ on and HUGE difference in surround volume - went way up. Watched a 2 hour TV show with DEQ off, and again, the surround levels seemed right. So, I am convinced that my screwed up levels due to speaker efficiency + amp gain are the reason I preferred Pro Cal's levels over manual before, with DEQ on. I think all will be well when I get the 12db attenuators.
Reply
Reply
post #2416 of 4230
5/18/12 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

This doesn't seem to be true, because DEQ doesn't really care about the volume pos, but the level that has been established by its measurements. Therefore DEQ is only available after Audyssey has gone through its measurement parcours. How this level is been established doesn't matter as long as you stay within the available correction window.

I think you are close but missing one thing. Since his front speaker array is some significant db above where Audyssey tried to put them, he's turning the volume down to bring them under control and thereby dialing in more DEQ than is appropriate. As we know, this is first noticed by the surrounds being too loud, which he did find.

Let's assume Audyssey sent -18 db to the receiver and the receiver did what we know it will do, set the level at -12 db because that's as low as it is able to go. this means he's running the main volume control down by about 6 db and that cuts in more DEQ than is desirable.

This problem occurs frequently with subwoofers requiring the gain on the sub amp to be lowered to get the receiver above its -12 db limit. Here that's happening with the front speakers.
Reply
Reply
post #2417 of 4230
5/18/12 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

Harrison Labs 12 dB RCA Line Level Attenuator $25.90 per pair. Parts Express, but I bought them via the Amazon storefront for Parts Express (no price difference, just more convenient for me.) They have 3db, 6db, and 12db - all the same price.

Parts Express has some that are much less expensive, but from user reviews they are low quality.

These are certainly not high tech. All it is, is a connector shell with a couple of resistors in them. You can build them yourself if you can figure out the resistor values.

Dang, they are expensive. I build mine into the interconnect cable connector. I make my interconnects from high quality mic cable and the connectors I use (from Parts Express) have room for two 1/4 watt resistors inside the barrel. The values aren't very critical and there are calculators on the internet that will give you the series and shunt L pad values.
Reply
Reply
post #2418 of 4230
5/18/12 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hclarkx View Post

Dang, they are expensive.

Yeah, I know. But after building my own stuff for 51 years (including numerous Heathkits, including a color TV - finished it the day Nixon resigned) I am much more a plug-and-play guy now.
Reply
Reply
post #2419 of 4230
5/19/12 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

Yeah, I know. But after building my own stuff for 51 years (including numerous Heathkits, including a color TV - finished it the day Nixon resigned) I am much more a plug-and-play guy now.

I hear you. I swept floors to build my first Heathkits in the 50's and still have the little VOM that came with the first Heathkit color TV.

I tossed out the DIY approach mostly for others that may be reading along. Even this specialized thread gets about 40 viewers per post.
Reply
Reply
post #2420 of 4230
5/19/12 at 11:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hclarkx View Post

...I still have the little VOM that came with the first Heathkit color TV...

I do too! It's held together with electrical tape and I've resoldered the leads several times.
Reply
Reply
post #2421 of 4230
5/19/12 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

Yeah, I know. But after building my own stuff for 51 years (including numerous Heathkits, including a color TV - finished it the day Nixon resigned) I am much more a plug-and-play guy now.

The black matrix tube was released about two weeks after I got my kit.
Reply
Reply
post #2422 of 4230
5/19/12 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by calentz View Post

The black matrix tube was released about two weeks after I got my kit.

I think mine was the Black Matrix ... think I got it in 68 or 69. Retired it in the early 80's when we realized the picture was so faded there wasn't much color left.
Reply
Reply
post #2423 of 4230
5/20/12 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hclarkx View Post


I think mine was the Black Matrix ... think I got it in 68 or 69. Retired it in the early 80's when we realized the picture was so faded there wasn't much color left.

Built mine in 68 along with my SB 401 and 301. Used all until mid 80s. Times and technology have certainly changed.
Reply
Reply
post #2424 of 4230
5/20/12 at 10:02am
FedEx tracking shows that the 12db attenuators will be here tomorrow. I should have time to re-run a cal. Will post the certificate files afterward.
Reply
Reply
post #2425 of 4230
5/20/12 at 10:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Some posters leave Mid-range Comp on, some turn it off. I would like to experiment to see which setting is best for my listening room. Can someone share what to listen for? Since it takes several minutes to switch the setting on and off, I have found it difficult to discern audible differences that would help me make the right choice. Is there a particular type of content to use? Are the differences obvious? Any direction would be appreciated.

Sorry for this late response and absence from this thread ... I had a long vacation and then an equally long vacation to recover from the long vacation.

Chris K, in response to a request from Jeff, stated that without midrange compensation, voices may sound "honky". See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post17380708

Two that come to mind quickly:

The Patriot: Ch. 2 "We are at war"
Most of the voices suffer from honkiness without midrange compensation. Listen to Mel Gibson and some of the actors in the audience

Standing in the Shadows of Motown: Ch. 4 "Joan Osborne: Love is like a Heat Wave"
Her voice can be extremely shrill and piercing with MR off.

There are many more examples. Solo dialog, vocals in CDs, etc.

Mark
Reply
Reply
post #2426 of 4230
5/21/12 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

Sorry for this late response and absence from this thread ... I had a long vacation and then an equally long vacation to recover from the long vacation.

Chris K, in response to a request from Jeff, stated that without midrange compensation, voices may sound "honky". See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post17380708

Two that come to mind quickly:

The Patriot: Ch. 2 "We are at war"
Most of the voices suffer from honkiness without midrange compensation. Listen to Mel Gibson and some of the actors in the audience

Standing in the Shadows of Motown: Ch. 4 "Joan Osborne: Love is like a Heat Wave"
Her voice can be extremely shrill and piercing with MR off.

There are many more examples. Solo dialog, vocals in CDs, etc.

Mark

I think it all depends on the system, the listener and the source material. Personally, I try to get the system sounding as close to the sound of live classical music concerts as I can. I am fortunate to have been at some concerts that were recorded live and issued on SACD, and I have also been at concerts in a fair number of different halls. So, over the years, I like to think I have accumulated a decent internal sense of what live, unamplified music is supposed to sound like.

With that reference, I prefer midrange compensation off in my system. There is a definite lack of air and space plus a somewhat restricted tonality with it on. Other classical concert goers quite agree in my system.

To me if it is "right" and "accurate" with music, it going to be the same with movies. And, I hear no sense of honkiness on voices either with music or movies. Actually, I have never heard any of the actors I see in movies, so I do not know exactly what their voices sound like, anyway. If I did hear what I thought was honkiness on a few soundtracks, personally I would rather hear it that way than introducing a permanent "distortion" to the sound of everything. But, YMMV.

I have yet to hear a clear and convincing argument from Audyssey for why the midrange compensation is even there. I do not think it makes sense from an acoustic theory perspective, unlike the HF roll off which does. So, it appears to be aimed at "sweetening" the tendencies of some sountracks, pure and simple.
But, I personally have a problem with doing that for some source material at the expense of all. However, everyone gets to make their own choices in their own systems.
Reply
Reply
post #2427 of 4230
5/21/12 at 6:15am
^ Thanks Mark and Fitz, this gives me some direction on how to evaluate MRC in my system. So far, I have simply been following Audyssey's recommendation and leaving it on.
Reply
Reply
post #2428 of 4230
5/21/12 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post
FedEx tracking shows that the 12db attenuators will be here tomorrow. I should have time to re-run a cal. Will post the certificate files afterward.
12 db attenuators are in the system now. See attached PDF for certificate. Now the side surrounds are bottoming out on level. One is -12, one is -11.5. Can't win for loosin' Guess I need to put the 6db attenuators in those channels. They are much closer to the MLP than the FH and FW Heresy IIIs, so I guess the levels make sense.

Note that the front K'horns are now -2.5 and the center is -2. Guess that means that without the attenuators, they were -14.5 and -14. Left/right back K'horns about the same offset.

Will do some critical listening tonight, but I did note that there is no longer the huge volume change for DEQ on and off. Brief listening test indicates that the side surrounds and the wide and height channels are about the right volume now with DEQ ON.

I left the front mains as Large. Denon is set to LFE+MAIN, so the subs are getting the info from the mains as well. I have tried setting everything to 80Hz and really can't tell that much difference.

Mid comp is off right now. In the past, when OFF there was sibilence on some voices, not on others, depending on program material, of course.

 

E__may 21cert.pdf 110.5419921875k . file
Reply
Reply
post #2429 of 4230
5/21/12 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

12 db attenuators are in the system now. See attached PDF for certificate. Now the side surrounds are bottoming out on level. One is -12, one is -11.5. Can't win for loosin' Guess I need to put the 6db attenuators in those channels. They are much closer to the MLP than the FH and FW Heresy IIIs, so I guess the levels make sense.

Note that the front K'horns are now -2.5 and the center is -2. Guess that means that without the attenuators, they were -14.5 and -14. Left/right back K'horns about the same offset.

Will do some critical listening tonight, but I did note that there is no longer the huge volume change for DEQ on and off. Brief listening test indicates that the side surrounds and the wide and height channels are about the right volume now with DEQ ON.

I left the front mains as Large. Denon is set to LFE+MAIN, so the subs are getting the info from the mains as well. I have tried setting everything to 80Hz and really can't tell that much difference.

Mid comp is off right now. In the past, when OFF there was sibilence on some voices, not on others, depending on program material, of course.

Looks to me like Audyssey is running out of room correcting (in order of difficulty):

1. Right Back (too big of a before dip still visible in the after graph)
2. Subwoofer 1+2 (same as above--also looks similar to the issue Keith was having right around the xover frequency)
3. Maybe Right Surround A and Left Back? (too big of a before dip still slightly visible in after graph)?

These could all be related to one another and a result of out of phase subwoofers (like Keith) and/or incorrect subwoofer distance set by Audyssey, so that they aren't blending with satellites in an optimal fashion. The reason we can suspect this is because the huge dips are right around the xover frequency.

If you play a sweep from say 40 Hz to 200 Hz with DEQ enabled, does it sound equally loud across all frequencies?

Also, are you positive you turned midrange comp on? I don't see it's characteristic dip in your certificate's after graphs...
Reply
Reply
post #2430 of 4230
5/21/12 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tandy1000rl View Post

Looks to me like Audyssey is running out of room correcting (in order of difficulty):

1. Right Back (too big of a before dip still visible in the after graph)
2. Subwoofer 1+2 (same as above--also looks similar to the issue Keith was having right around the xover frequency)
3. Maybe Right Surround A and Left Back? (too big of a before dip still slightly visible in after graph)?

These could all be related to one another and a result of out of phase subwoofers (like Keith) and/or incorrect subwoofer distance set by Audyssey, so that they aren't blending with satellites in an optimal fashion. The reason we can suspect this is because the huge dips are right around the xover frequency.

If you play a sweep from say 40 Hz to 200 Hz with DEQ enabled, does it sound equally loud across all frequencies?

Also, are you positive you turned midrange comp on? I don't see it's characteristic dip in your certificate's after graphs...

I did get a warning that right back was out of phase. That seems to happen a lot with the K'horns for some reason. A few times before, it was the right front. I ignored it since I know that the phasing is correct. Will double check, tho. Could be that the rear bass horns are not sealing to the corner completely - will check that to see if they are pulled out a little. Quite a bit of difference between the front and rears in the before to be essentially the same speaker, although made 20 years apart. Might need to check the midrange driver phase as well - crossover is at 400 - but it was correct when I rebuilt them several years ago.

Guess I can play with sub distances as well. There are 4 HSU ULS-15s spread out across the front wall and a Velodyne FSR-18 on the left side near the back. I may pull out REW and the calibrated mic rather than trying sweeps by ear.

Mid comp is off, so that is why you are not seeing the dip.

Thanks for the observations.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1)