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The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 89

post #2641 of 5281
"Proper" .. you're doing it the proper way. wink.gif

Jeff
post #2642 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

"Proper" .. you're doing it the proper way. wink.gif
Jeff

Me believes there are so many variables that can not lead us to a "one-size-fits-all" solution by laser-precise aiming of every speaker to the MLP. Audyssey is about a multi-seater solution. See, there is already another variable as we speak. Nonetheless, I put the question to our PhD holder on FB and will post back ASAP.
post #2643 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

"Proper" .. you're doing it the proper way. wink.gif
Jeff


Right and proper!

post #2644 of 5281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Me believes there are so many variables that can not lead us to a "one-size-fits-all" solution by laser-precise aiming of every speaker to the MLP. Audyssey is about a multi-seater solution. See, there is already another variable as we speak. Nonetheless, I put the question to our PhD holder on FB and will post back ASAP.

Chris has posted that he recommends front speakers be aimed at MLP unless the OEM specifically recommends against it.

In the 2 ch audiophile community pointing speakers directly at you would be quite unusual. It is very common to experiment with small to moderate degrees of toe-in to fine-tune the imaging, particularly if the speakers are further than the max recommended ratio of 1.2 of the distance to MLP. IMO there's no one-size-fits all- I believe it's a YMMV, based on the particular speaker, the room, the speaker position in relation to walls, distance to MLP and personal preference.
post #2645 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Chris has posted that he recommends front speakers be aimed at MLP unless the OEM specifically recommends against it.
In the 2 ch audiophile community pointing speakers directly at you would be quite unusual. It is very common to experiment with small to moderate degrees of toe-in to fine-tune the imaging, particularly if the speakers are further than the max recommended ratio of 1.2 of the distance to MLP. IMO there's no one-size-fits all- I believe it's a YMMV, based on the particular speaker, the room, the speaker position in relation to walls, distance to MLP and personal preference.

I certainly agree that personal preference plays a big role. If we lived in a perfect world, we would have a way of conducting quick, multiple A/B comparisons to arrive at what we prefer. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
post #2646 of 5281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I certainly agree that personal preference plays a big role. If we lived in a perfect world, we would have a way of conducting quick, multiple A/B comparisons to arrive at what we prefer. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
Yes, in a perfect world our virtual AVS community would be a real neighborhood and we'd be over each other's houses tweaking gear and enjoying listening experiences on a regular basis.smile.gif

BTW, I'm not saying those here getting excellent results with toe-in should really even give this topic any further consideration. My interest (and Feri's) in the toe-in issue stems from our having Dali speakers, with their rather unique "tweeter array" consisting of a dome tweeter plus a ribbon super tweeter. Dali is very specific about this design not requiring (or benefitting) from toe-in. In the Dali thread, owner reports support this as well. Still, I'm a YMMV kind of guy so I may try it with the new speakers some time. For now, after spending days switching speakers, measuring, aiming, calibrating, etc. I'm ready to get back to listening.smile.gif

I'm impressed with how profoundly Audyssey improves the sound in my room. My latest Pro cal with the new speakers sounds fabulous.
post #2647 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Me believes there are so many variables that can not lead us to a "one-size-fits-all" solution by laser-precise aiming of every speaker to the MLP. Audyssey is about a multi-seater solution. See, there is already another variable as we speak. Nonetheless, I put the question to our PhD holder on FB and will post back ASAP.

FYI, here's the Q & A with Chris on FB Audyssey Tech Talk:

To toe-in or not to toe-in?

Feri: Hi Chris, I always believe that a proper in-room speaker placement prior to running Audyssey is half way to success or maybe even more. Care to share some thoughts on proper front LR setup (kinda cold setup) that should be taken into consideration in order to get the best possible SQ (and of course EQ) before running auto setup? I'm fully aware of the fact that there won't be a "one-size-fits-all" solution, just would like to hear some general guidance with regards to speaker dispersion patterns, reflections, absorptions, diffusion and with all this in mind some hints on toe-in ideas, etc. Thanks in advance.

Chris K.: Most speakers are designed to perform better when listened to on axis. So yes, toe in is recommended unless the manufacturer tells you not to for some strange reason.

Feri: Thanks Chris. Could you please expand a bit on "some strange reason"? What do you think as an industrial insider the makers are having in mind when they mention like that. smile.gif

Chris K.: I was referring to planar or ribbon speakers that have different directivity characteristics than traditional tweeters.

Feri: By different do you mean narrower for the planar or ribbon tweeters? And is that why you recommend toe-in so as to be on-axis with such narrow dispertion speakes? Traditional means dome tweeter, right?

Chris K.: Not necessarily narrower. Just different. Each speaker maker has a recommendation for pointing that should be the final word.

Feri: Understood and thanks again Chris. Have a nice day. Cheers, Feri


Link here
post #2648 of 5281
Well ive been told that mine will be shipped today so hopefully I should receive it on the next day or two. I've just had my Denon AVP (European version) updated which allows for the pro kit. Is it easy to setup? I was told it can be run by Ethernet also so how does that work?

Thank you
post #2649 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Well ive been told that mine will be shipped today so hopefully I should receive it on the next day or two. I've just had my Denon AVP (European version) updated which allows for the pro kit. Is it easy to setup? I was told it can be run by Ethernet also so how does that work?
Thank you


Hi Frank. Setting up Pro is fairly straightforward. The Ethernet thing is that, with my Onkyo 5509 anyway, you have to connect the AVP to a router with tan Ethernet cable and then the router to the PC running the Pro software. You can use any old router. Some people say they have successfully connected the AVP directly to the PC also but I haven't tried that yet - apparently modern PCs know to 'reverse' the connections when you do that. Once you have done that, check what the IP address of your router is using the AVP menus and then you enter that into the Pro s/w where it asks for it. It all then connects.

post #2650 of 5281
Not difficult, but definitely time consuming. Takes me about 2 hours for a 12 point calibration, but I'm meticulous with Mic placement.
post #2651 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

Not difficult, but definitely time consuming. Takes me about 2 hours for a 12 point calibration, but I'm meticulous with Mic placement.


True. Takes me 2 hours too - I am also meticulous about mic placement and orientation. And I am only doing a 7.2 system - anyone doing 11.x will really need to set aside a whole afternoon.

post #2652 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


Hi Frank. Setting up Pro is fairly straightforward. The Ethernet thing is that, with my Onkyo 5509 anyway, you have to connect the AVP to a router with tan Ethernet cable and then the router to the PC running the Pro software. You can use any old router. Some people say they have successfully connected the AVP directly to the PC also but I haven't tried that yet - apparently modern PCs know to 'reverse' the connections when you do that. Once you have done that, check what the IP address of your router is using the AVP menus and then you enter that into the Pro s/w where it asks for it. It all then connects.

Thankyou kbarnes701. Btw what do you get with the kit?
post #2653 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


True. Takes me 2 hours too - I am also meticulous about mic placement and orientation. And I am only doing a 7.2 system - anyone doing 11.x will really need to set aside a whole afternoon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

Not difficult, but definitely time consuming. Takes me about 2 hours for a 12 point calibration, but I'm meticulous with Mic placement.

2 hours eek.gif im going to do end up doing 9.1 who knows how long ill be i really only have 2 seats the other 2 are close to the sides.
post #2654 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Thankyou kbarnes701. Btw what do you get with the kit?

You get everything you need except the Ethernet stuff and the PC, of course. You get mike, mike preamp, tripod, and plenty of analog cables.

You should load the software on the PC from the disk with the kit, as that.includes the mike calibration file. Then, download the latest version of the the software and install and use it.

You will have to set up a user id with Audyssey Tech Support, then you can purchase the license for your unit before getting started.

I am sure it will take some fiddling and trial and error learning the first time, but it isn't difficult and the instructions are very good.
post #2655 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

You get everything you need except the Ethernet stuff and the PC, of course. You get mike, mike preamp, tripod, and plenty of analog cables.
You should load the software on the PC from the disk with the kit, as that.includes the mike calibration file. Then, download the latest version of the the software and install and use it.
You will have to set up a user id with Audyssey Tech Support, then you can purchase the license for your unit before getting started.
I am sure it will take some fiddling and trial and error learning the first time, but it isn't difficult and the instructions are very good.

Thanks for that fitzcaraldo215. Silly question but the software is compatible with window 7 32/64 bit? The user id can be done over the internet?
post #2656 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post


2 hours eek.gif im going to do end up doing 9.1 who knows how long ill be i really only have 2 seats the other 2 are close to the sides.


Yeah, it's the number crunching in the PC that takes the time - first for the measurements themselves and then for the calculation of the filters and downloading them to the AVP. One problem is that the mic is attached to the mic stand via a floppy swan-neck thing - and every time you move the stand the mic loses its necessary vertical orientation and has to be put straight again. Member austinjerry came up with a useful idea which is to use two pieces of electrical tape to fasten the first foot of the cable to the mic's boom arm - it's the 'drag' of the cable that moves the mic on the swan-neck. It would be quicker if the mic was firmly mounted to the stand IMO.

post #2657 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


Yeah, it's the number crunching in the PC that takes the time - first for the measurements themselves and then for the calculation of the filters and downloading them to the AVP. One problem is that the mic is attached to the mic stand via a floppy swan-neck thing - and every time you move the stand the mic loses its necessary vertical orientation and has to be put straight again. Member austinjerry came up with a useful idea which is to use two pieces of electrical tape to fasten the first foot of the cable to the mic's boom arm - it's the 'drag' of the cable that moves the mic on the swan-neck. It would be quicker if the mic was firmly mounted to the stand IMO.

Would it be worth buying a professional mic stand from the music stores?
post #2658 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post


Thanks for that fitzcaraldo215. Silly question but the software is compatible with window 7 32/64 bit? The user id can be done over the internet?

 

Yes it is - I use Windows 7 (Home version) with my kit. No problem at all. You have to create an account at the Pro Audyssey website. Once that is done you buy a licence for your particular AVP (over the net) and that licence lasts indefinitely but you have to renew the licence key every month for some reason (at no charge). You have to enter the key number each time you run the Pro s/w.  It all sounds more complicated than it is - trust me, if I can get it to work without any problem, then 99.999% of the population will be able to. I have no experience at all with Windows and had to buy a laptop specially to run Pro (and OmniMic and Calman 4) - up to then I had been a lifelong Mac user. And if you do encounter problems, then this thread is a great resource and the guys here will soon get you up and running.

post #2659 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post


Would it be worth buying a professional mic stand from the music stores?


No - you get a really good one with the kit. It's the swan-neck attachment that is the problem. Maybe it's just me - what do the others think?

 

@mjf_uk - you're meticulous with mic placement - do you find the swan neck thing a PITA as well??

post #2660 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes it is - I use Windows 7 (Home version) with my kit. No problem at all. You have to create an account at the Pro Audyssey website. Once that is done you buy a licence for your particular AVP (over the net) and that licence lasts indefinitely but you have to renew the licence key every month for some reason (at no charge). You have to enter the key number each time you run the Pro s/w.  It all sounds more complicated than it is - trust me, if I can get it to work without any problem, then 99.999% of the population will be able to. I have no experience at all with Windows and had to buy a laptop specially to run Pro (and OmniMic and Calman 4) - up to then I had been a lifelong Mac user. And if you do encounter problems, then this thread is a great resource and the guys here will soon get you up and running.

Thank you for your response kbarnes701 i guess that makes me all set. This thread has been very helpful.
post #2661 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


No - you get a really good one with the kit. It's the swan-neck attachment that is the problem. Maybe it's just me - what do the others think?

@mjf_uk - you're meticulous with mic placement - do you find the swan neck thing a PITA as well??

Ok thank you. smile.gif
post #2662 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post


Thank you for your response kbarnes701 i guess that makes me all set. This thread has been very helpful.


Good luck with it Frank. If you encounter problems (not likely) then do come back here!

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

post #2663 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


Good luck with it Frank. If you encounter problems (not likely) then do come back here!

Cheers,

Keith

Will do thanks again Keith for all your help.
post #2664 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


No - you get a really good one with the kit. It's the swan-neck attachment that is the problem. Maybe it's just me - what do the others think?

 

@mjf_uk - you're meticulous with mic placement - do you find the swan neck thing a PITA as well??

 

IMG_0134.JPG

 

In addition to using a small piece of tape to attach the cable to the boom arm, which prevents the weight of the cable from dragging the mic down, I also raise the body of the mic stand high enough so that the boom arm is angled down.  This also relieves the stress on the gooseneck, preventing the mic from moving as the stand is placed at different measuring spots.  Using this combined approach, I have been able to complete a 12-16 point calibration without the mic height being altered during the process.

 

One other technique, only for the highly OCD among us, is the use of a piece of string with a weight on it (like a plumb-bob), and adhesive dots to mark the intended measuring spots.  If you plan on following up the calibration with a measurement of the results, using OmniMic or REW, the use of the adhesive spots insures the measurement spots are the same as those used for the Pro calibration.

 

Probably way too much for many of you, but I thought I would share, in case you find the techniques useful.

post #2665 of 5281
Thread Starter 
^I cut 9" off of the bottom of the outer vertical tube of the pro kit mic stand. This maintains the proper function of the inner tube yet allows me to angle the boom up slightly and thus never have to worry about the stand being directly between mic and any speaker and causing reflections. I am running 7.1DSX wides so the angles can get very tricky otherwise. Now I can just swing the boom around, extend it etc for multiple positions without repositioning the base of the stand and rechecking all those angles.

I wrap the mic cord around the end of the boom a bit as a strain release (the tape technique would work great too). Normally I sight directly down vertically onto the mic to establish that it's about vertical, then do 2 quick horizontal eyeball checks, one 90 degrees from the other. The flimsy gooseneck thingy is a PITA in positioning the mic precisely vertical. I don't precisely duplicate the positions and I vary mic height by 1-2" up and down on a few positions. My recent Pro cal with the new speakers is superb.smile.gif
Edited by SoundofMind - 7/3/12 at 9:22am
post #2666 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

600x448px-LL-97a3cd79_IMG_0134.jpeg
OMG, you should win a prize!
post #2667 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


No - you get a really good one with the kit. It's the swan-neck attachment that is the problem. Maybe it's just me - what do the others think?

@mjf_uk - you're meticulous with mic placement - do you find the swan neck thing a PITA as well??
I wrap the cable around the arm and down the stand a good few times. The only issue I've noticed is that the feet of the stand don't really lock into a set position and therefore can affect the height of the Mic, depending on how it is handled when moved around. The only problem with the goose neck was when I knocked the stand a little and noticed it dropped a couple of centimetres, so have been more careful since.
post #2668 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

OMG, you should win a prize!

+1

It also looks like it might be a pretty high end putting trainer when not in use taking measurements smile.gif
post #2669 of 5281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

...The only issue I've noticed is that the feet of the stand don't really lock into a set position and therefore can affect the height of the Mic, depending on how it is handled when moved around...
I find that the legs are stable irt height when pushed down as far as they'll go.
post #2670 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post


I find that the legs are stable irt height when pushed down as far as they'll go.


Does anyone think that the gooseneck thingy is a specific part of the kit's design - IOW, it is deliberately chosen because its non-rigid nature is important in isolating the mic from disturbances and/or vibrations during calibration?  Or is it just a random way to connect the mic to the stand?  If the latter, I can easily use an alternative mic fixing method that will not wobble about every time I move the stand.

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