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The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 103

post #3061 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Thanks Mark. I am not sure what I think wink.gif  Although what you say makes sense. If someone else can chime in and comment one way or another I will modify the Answer.

The change to "high-pass filter" is correct. However, I think the specific example of full range changed to 40 Hz is likely an edge case. While correct, it may unnecessarily complicate the FAQ. What is already in the FAQ is a general guideline, and is the appropriate level of detail, IMHO. No offense intended, Mark.
post #3062 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

The change to "high-pass filter" is correct. However, I think the specific example of full range changed to 40 Hz is likely an edge case. While correct, it may unnecessarily complicate the FAQ. What is already in the FAQ is a general guideline, and is the appropriate level of detail, IMHO. No offense intended, Mark.

The consumer MultEQ FAQ is already complicated ... though necessarily so as "getting it right" can be complicated. "Automatic Room Correction" is a farce joke knee-slapper! I am OK with the Pro FAQ being even more complicated; it is likely that people using the Pro Kit have a somewhat deeper understanding of acoustics and technical things and the more information they have, the better. IMO.

Jeff
post #3063 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Thanks Mark. I am not sure what I think wink.gif  Although what you say makes sense. If someone else can chime in and comment one way or another I will modify the Answer.

The change to "high-pass filter" is correct. However, I think the specific example of full range changed to 40 Hz is likely an edge case. While correct, it may unnecessarily complicate the FAQ. What is already in the FAQ is a general guideline, and is the appropriate level of detail, IMHO. No offense intended, Mark.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

The change to "high-pass filter" is correct. However, I think the specific example of full range changed to 40 Hz is likely an edge case. While correct, it may unnecessarily complicate the FAQ. What is already in the FAQ is a general guideline, and is the appropriate level of detail, IMHO. No offense intended, Mark.

The consumer MultEQ FAQ is already complicated ... though necessarily so as "getting it right" can be complicated. "Automatic Room Correction" is a farce joke knee-slapper! I am OK with the Pro FAQ being even more complicated; it is likely that people using the Pro Kit have a somewhat deeper understanding of acoustics and technical things and the more information they have, the better. IMO.

Jeff

 

I have added in Mark's wording as a footnote to the answer. That way it doesn't unnecessarily complicate the FAQ but does make for a more complete answer I think.

 

I agree with you, Jeff, that the Pro FAQ can be much more in-depth if we wish it to be or if it needs to be. With the MultEQ FAQ, I tried to keep it as simple as possible for newcomers and, as you point out, it is still quite complicated because setting up Audyssey properly can indeed be complicated. This thread is a testimony to that! But with the Pro FAQ, I don't think an added layer of complexity is an issue so long as the explanations in the FAQ are at all times clear and easily comprehensible. I think Mark's footnote falls into the latter category.

 

The modified answer can be seen here:

 

a)4.   What are the differences between the Audyssey Pro Kit and regular MultEQ?

post #3064 of 5258

Pro FAQ Update

 

I have added an additional question:

 

b)7.   If I use the Audyssey Pro kit, can I forget about room treatments?

 

This is lifted from the MultEQ FAQ but the content is probably more relevant here than it is there. The Answer also includes several good links.

 

I have also added a few words about the consumer MultEQ FAQ with a link to it.

 

Also added additional cross-referencing in various answers, given credit to Jerry and SoM which I had inadvertently omitted on a couple of answers and made a few 'tidying up' changes.

post #3065 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


I agree with you, Jeff, that the Pro FAQ can be much more in-depth if we wish it to be or if it needs to be.

With that in mind, I will submit my spreadsheet editing technique for Target Curve customizations ...

Jeff
post #3066 of 5258
Should we assume that there could be a number of people who will buy a Pro kit and not have already read the consumer FAQ?
post #3067 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


I agree with you, Jeff, that the Pro FAQ can be much more in-depth if we wish it to be or if it needs to be.

With that in mind, I will submit my spreadsheet editing technique for Target Curve customizations ...

Jeff

 

Oh yes! That is a great addition - I remember reading this before - you may have PM's when I asked about the curve editor or it may be in the thread, but it was great stuff. Much better than grabbing those little handles... yes please, Jeff. PM me the copy and I'll put it in...

post #3068 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Should we assume that there could be a number of people who will buy a Pro kit and not have already read the consumer FAQ?

Who knows how the human mind works?  Apart from Freud and Jung. And Maslow. And Pavlov. And Skinner. Well, YKWIM :)

 

Every Pro user will, ipso facto, have either XT or XT32 and we might assume (ASS.U.ME) that they are competent with either. Some may not be of course and they might be trying the Pro kit to overcome 'deficiencies' in XT32 or XT caused by poor calibration techniques. 

 

What I have said in cross-reffing the MultEQ FAQ is this:

 

 

Click Here For The Audyssey MultEQ FAQ.

 
There is a dedicated 'counterpart' FAQ to this one, specially designed for users of the 'consumer' versions of Audyssey MultEQ: XT32, XT, MultEQ and 2EQ. As a through understanding of MultEQ is required in order to get best results from Audyssey Pro, it is strongly recommended that all Pro users familiarise themselves with the 'consumer' MultEQ FAQ, which contains useful information on all aspects of using MultEQ, including mic positioning and techniques, measurement patterns and much more. The 'MultEQ FAQ' is hosted in the Official Audyssey Thread here at AVS and can be accessed by clicking the link above.

 

The heading is a link to the MultEQ FAQ.

 

P.S. No list of famous shrinks should omit Erikson and Watson, so there they are ;)

post #3069 of 5258
Thread Starter 
Keith:
Wow, amazing job on the FAQ!

I have followed the precedent of the Audyssey thread and modified the title of the thread and provided a link to the FAQ in posts #1 and #2.

I apologize for my lack of participation with this lately but as soon as I got the new speakers calibrated things got intense with that bothersome job thing in the so-called "real" (non-hobby thread) world.
post #3070 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Oh yes! That is a great addition - I remember reading this before - you may have PM's when I asked about the curve editor or it may be in the thread, but it was great stuff. Much better than grabbing those little handles... yes please, Jeff. PM me the copy and I'll put it in...

I have emailed Luke my "guesses" on min handle spacing and wait for a reply. His guess have to be better than mine. wink.gif
post #3071 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Keith:
Wow, amazing job on the FAQ!
I have followed the precedent of the Audyssey thread and modified the title of the thread and provided a link to the FAQ in posts #1 and #2.
I apologize for my lack of participation with this lately but as soon as I got the new speakers calibrated things got intense with that bothersome job thing in the so-called "real" (non-hobby thread) world.

 

It's disappointing that you would let your job interfere with forum activities, but I guess you need to earn some money to afford those state-of-the-art audio upgrades....    ;)

post #3072 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Keith:
Wow, amazing job on the FAQ!

I have followed the precedent of the Audyssey thread and modified the title of the thread and provided a link to the FAQ in posts #1 and #2.

I apologize for my lack of participation with this lately but as soon as I got the new speakers calibrated things got intense with that bothersome job thing in the so-called "real" (non-hobby thread) world.

Thanks SoM!  

 

Useful addition to thread title - and the links in post 1 and 2 too.

 

IKWYM about getting new speakers - you have to listen to ALL of your CDs and BDs again ;)  And, well, if you also have a *job*.... there's no chance!  :)

post #3073 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

As a through understanding

... thorough ...

What my proofreading isn't ..... ;)  Thanks, corrected now...

post #3074 of 5258

Keith,

 

A recommendation for a small addition to the FAQ, perhaps under a)3:

 

If I upgrade my AVR, can I transfer the Pro license to the new system?  Answer:  No, the license is married to the AVR's MAC.  A new AVR requires a new license.

 

If I sell my AVR, can I transfer the Pro license to the new owner?  Answer:  Yes, please contact Audyssey support and submit a request to transfer the license.

post #3075 of 5258
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

It's disappointing that you would let your job interfere with forum activities, but I guess you need to earn some money to afford those state-of-the-art audio upgrades....    wink.gif
You are quite right, my friend. And not only does so much professional activity bring $ rewards, but a wonderful rationalization to spend it: I work hard so I deserve some nice speakers, SACDs, etc...biggrin.gif
post #3076 of 5258
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

...IKWYM about getting new speakers - you have to listen to ALL of your CDs and BDs again wink.gif  
biggrin.gif That's so spot on!! "Hmmm, wonder what this disc will sound like now" has been a predictably bright spot each evening after these hectic days.
post #3077 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Keith,

 

A recommendation for a small addition to the FAQ, perhaps under a)3:

 

If I upgrade my AVR, can I transfer the Pro license to the new system?  Answer:  No, the license is married to the AVR's MAC.  A new AVR requires a new license.

 

If I sell my AVR, can I transfer the Pro license to the new owner?  Answer:  Yes, please contact Audyssey support and submit a request to transfer the license.

Nice one, Jerry. Consider it done... (later - additional copy now added).


Edited by kbarnes701 - 9/25/12 at 4:43pm
post #3078 of 5258
"Answer: No, the license is married to the AVR's MAC."

Married, with no possibility of parole.
post #3079 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

"Answer: No, the license is married to the AVR's MAC."

Married, with no possibility of parole.

LOL. I did consider changing that to 'tied' but left it as it was more colourful. Or colorful even ;)

post #3080 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

LOL. I did consider changing that to 'tied' but left it as it was more colourful. Or colorful even ;)

 

Not my words, gentlemen.  That was the term used in the response I got from Audyssey support, so we need to deem it "official".  :)

post #3081 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

LOL. I did consider changing that to 'tied' but left it as it was more colourful. Or colorful even ;)

 

Not my words, gentlemen.  That was the term used in the response I got from Audyssey support, so we need to deem it "official".  :)

:)  I like it. If the Pro Kit and the AVR split up, does one get the house?

post #3082 of 5258
Hi guys,

I just ran an Omnimic calibration as I got just got it from the states. I have 2 Submersives in my room with no acoustic treatments. Im pretty sure I took these 1/12 octaves...not sure what you guys mostly prefer. But here it is.

System:

3x Seaton Sound Catalysts 12C's
2x Seaton Submersives
2x Jensen SPX *crappy bookshelfs* for rears
Integra DHC80.3 w/ Audyssey pro
Emotiva XPA5

My room:

Front:


Back:


Sub 1 Right side of MLP Audyssey off:


Sub 1 Right side of MLP Audyssey On:


Sub 1 Left side of MLP Audyssey Off:


Sub 2 Left Side of MLP Audyssey On:


Both Subs Audyssey Off at MLP:


Both Subs Audyssey On at MLP:


Just want to provide as much detail as possible for you guys as I really want to learn more about all of this....so this is my first measurements. I would like to get the best sound possible from my speakers. If you need trim and details I will be more than happy to post my Audyssey Pro settings too smile.gif. All is tuned to the normal 75db through the audyssey pro kit. There are two openings to the rest of the house on either side of front speakers as you can see in the picture....which sucks. But if there is any better way to get better sound...that would be awesome!. I am loving speakers too! biggrin.gif

P.S - The Submersives are at the back of the room as you can see in the picture.

Cheers,
Kevin
post #3083 of 5258
Nice. Here are some comments from an acoustical standpoint which is not necessarily practical smile.gif

The openings to the left and the right are not necessarily a drawback. This way side wall reflections are eliminated. Most consider sidewall reflections not as detrimental than reflections from the ceiling, floor and the center of front and back wall. In fact those sidewall reflections can add a sense of spaciousness. Nevertheless if accuracy is your goal, those reflections need to be reduced in level. You did this with the side reflections but not for the other directions.
A thick rug on the floor helps with the floor reflection. For all other locations you would need to add broadband absorption.
It looks like you're sitting close to the back wall so absorption is especially recommended for that wall.

You get a lot of diffraction effects from the front wall cabinet and the coffee table. It should be removed.

To make things perfect I'd relocate the center behind an acoustically transparent screen and place it upright like the left and right speakers. This would also make space for absorption on the front wall.
post #3084 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Nice. Here are some comments from an acoustical standpoint which is not necessarily practical smile.gif

The openings to the left and the right are not necessarily a drawback. This way side wall reflections are eliminated. Most consider sidewall reflections not as detrimental than reflections from the ceiling, floor and the center of front and back wall. In fact those sidewall reflections can add a sense of spaciousness. Nevertheless if accuracy is your goal, those reflections need to be reduced in level. You did this with the side reflections but not for the other directions.
A thick rug on the floor helps with the floor reflection. For all other locations you would need to add broadband absorption.
It looks like you're sitting close to the back wall so absorption is especially recommended for that wall.

You get a lot of diffraction effects from the front wall cabinet and the coffee table. It should be removed.

To make things perfect I'd relocate the center behind an acoustically transparent screen and place it upright like the left and right speakers. This would also make space for absorption on the front wall.

 

Markus - could you also comment on his graphs please? I am a novice user of Omnimic too and, like Kevin, am keen to learn more. With a non-technical background, I find the theoretical texts often posted on the forum are heavy-going and much prefer individual comment on individual graphs. Thanks.

post #3085 of 5258
Thread Starter 
My AVR A100/4311 lost its current Audyssey calibration due to a power outage. It's a known occasional odd glitch of the 4311. The quickneasy fix simply requires using Denon Network Load to restore the Saved Denon settings file. That is, if you've remembered to do a Save. redface.gif Apparently in the excitement of the new speakers and the press of day-job work I'd forgotten to do a Save.

No prob. I just got out the laptop and fired up Pro. I reloaded my last Pro cal measurement file and recalc'd the filters. smile.gif

The short story and bad news is that, just as AustinJerry has reported, the "2 subs get the same settings" bug has not been fixed and is indeed evident on reloading a filel.

The long story and good news is that this led to more experimentation and better SQ for me. Some of the below is also posted in the 4311 thread but I thought I'd include it here too.

So this time I decided to calculate using the Pro top-ranked (below Large) xover, which for my gear/room is 40 Hz, rather than the 80 Hz I'd been opting for prior. I wanted to hear if this would sound any better. In addition, I'd chosen 80 before, primarily to send more of the lowest freq signals to the subs. This helped keep the subs "awake". And it offloaded some significant work a tough octave from 40-80Hz from the fronts to the subs. Neither of these factors is really important to me now.

One, I ran a cable connecting my Velo subs as "Master-slave", so a single touch of the sub remote turns both subs on or off and digital Vol adjustments. Therefore I no longer have them in Auto-off mode and they can't fall asleep at inopportune times.

Two, each of the front R/L speakers has two 8" woofers so they can easily handle the lowest octave of music from 40-80Hz. And I have an Emotiva XPA5 driving the sats so there's plenty of power.

So how does it sound now? It sounds fabulous. Subjectively the bass is certainly as good and may be even better. Solid, impactful, tight and palpable, just how I like it.

Not only that, but this 40 Hz setting helps me with a new agenda item: correcting the 10 dB loss in DSD LFE from MC SACD. I've posted more on that in Bill Mac's thread on the topic.
post #3086 of 5258
@Keith:

Perhaps we should consider adding this to the post-calibration section in the Pro FAQ:

After you have transferred the calibration results to the AVR, take a moment to save the distance and trim settings that have been set up in the AVR. (This is to protect you from a current bug in the Pro software that affects the sub distance and trim settings when re-loading a saved measurement file). A simple way to do this is to take a photo of the trim and distance screens in the AVR's menu.

Best practice:

- Create a subdirectory on up you calibration PC called "Audyssey Pro Calibrations"
- In this subdirectory, create additional subdirectories for each Pro calibration that you run, and name the subdirectories "Calibration MM-DD-YY".
- In each date-specific calibration subdirectory, save 1) the Pro measurements file, 2) the Pro certificate, 3) the AVR distance and trim settings after the calibration has completed, and 4) a simple text file explaining what changed for this calibration (a very important step). Additionally, if you run post-calibration measurements with REW or Omni-mic, save the results in this folder as well.
post #3087 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post


One, I ran a cable connecting my Velo subs as "Master-slave", so a single touch of the sub remote turns both subs on or off and digital Vol adjustments. Therefore I no longer have them in Auto-off mode and they can't fall asleep at inopportune times.
 

I just leave the subs powered ON all the time. I am considering doing the same with the rest of my amps too. I am sure there is no science behind this, but they (the amps) do seem to sound better after warming up for an hour or so. I can't really explain why that should matter with solid state amps but I can absolutely, positively, definitely, without fear of contradiction, unequivocally and unreservedly say that my stereo Class A amp in my music system sounds like crap when it is cold - harsh, brittle, edgy, just plain awful. Once it has warmed up - and boy do Class A amps give new meaning to the word 'warm', it is smooth, velvety, and delightful - listening to it is like wiping your arse with silk, as that dude in The Matrix 2 says :) I know just what he means.

 

Glad your new setup is the bee's knees SoM - makes the PITA of having to re-run Audyssey all worthwhile!

post #3088 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

@Keith:

Perhaps we should consider adding this to the post-calibration section in the Pro FAQ:

After you have transferred the calibration results to the AVR, take a moment to save the distance and trim settings that have been set up in the AVR. (This is to protect you from a current bug in the Pro software that affects the sub distance and trim settings when re-loading a saved measurement file). A simple way to do this is to take a photo of the trim and distance screens in the AVR's menu.

Best practice:

- Create a subdirectory on up you calibration PC called "Audyssey Pro Calibrations"
- In this subdirectory, create additional subdirectories for each Pro calibration that you run, and name the subdirectories "Calibration MM-DD-YY".
- In each date-specific calibration subdirectory, save 1) the Pro measurements file, 2) the Pro certificate, 3) the AVR distance and trim settings after the calibration has completed, and 4) a simple text file explaining what changed for this calibration (a very important step). Additionally, if you run post-calibration measurements with REW or Omni-mic, save the results in this folder as well.

 

Consider it done, Jerry. Oh, hang on - there isn't a post-cal section yet. I'm waiting for Stuart's copy. Or did you have somewhere else for the above in mind?

 

How about adding it to this:

 

c)6.   What are the final calibration steps?

post #3089 of 5258
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I just leave the subs powered ON all the time...

Good point, Jerry. I was told by Velodyne CS that it does not decrease the subs' lifespan by much to leave them on all the time and that there is not a lot of current draw when idle. So for awhile I did just that.

The DD design incorporates a lot of flexibility in the subs, with 6 Modes available at the press of a remote button, each individually customizable. For ex., on Std/Jazz Mode setting the EQ is accurate/flat and plays at reference level. Action Movie Mode has a higher sub Vol control and boosts ultra-low freqs a bit. It also releases the digitally-controlled servo on the magnet/voice coil so it is less accurate but allows greater excursion for more intense bass. Adding the Master/Slave control connection made it a single button press to any Mode (including my new MC SACD Mode smile.gif) as well as On/Off. Yet Sub 1 and sub two each recieve their own signal from the respective AVR sub 1 and 2 outputs.
post #3090 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I just leave the subs powered ON all the time...

Good point, Jerry. I was told by Velodyne CS that it does not decrease the subs' lifespan by much to leave them on all the time and that there is not a lot of current draw when idle. So for awhile I did just that.

I think leaving gear powered on can actually increase its lifespan - most electrical items experience a surge at switch-on - which is why light bulbs always blow when you turn the light on, so avoiding these surges may prolong the life of the equipment. I'm speculating of course, but I've read it more than once.

 

 

 

Quote:

The DD design adds a lot of flexibility to the subs, with 6 Modes available at the press of a button, each customizable. For ex., on Std/Jazz Mode setting the EQ is accurate/flat, reference level. Action Movie Mode has a higher sub Vol control and boosts ultra-low freqs a bit. It also releases the digitally-controlled servo on the magnet/voice coil so it is less accurate but allows greater excursion for more intense bass. Adding the Master/Slave control connection made it easy to switch both subs-a single button press to any Mode as well as On/Off.

That does sound great (NPI) but I think if I had so many options I'd be eternally fiddling with them!

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