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The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 122

post #3631 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SR303 View Post

I have a Vista 64 laptop. The driver installs with no errors. When the Audyssey USB/Serial cable is plugged in, Windows tries to install it and it gets this error.

And I also get the yellow-flagged entry:

I thought the chipset was in the cable itself.

it is. It is in the cable assembly.
post #3632 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

The chipset is in the laptop, isn't it? Does the cable have a chipset?
My old laptop had 64-bit Win 7. I remember that the native driver didn't work, but the one I downloaded from Prolific never have me problems. My current laptop is 32-bit Win 7, and it works fine with the native driver (which is actually supplied by Prolific, but several revs behind what is on their site).
Thanks for keeping us advised of your progress. It's very important that we stay on top of any Pro issue that are encountered.

Here is the error that I get --- This device cannot start. (Code 10)

I looked on Microsoft's site and they say this is a generic error when windows cannot talk to the device. I tried various versions of the prolific drivers from their web site and none of them worked with the audyssey supplied cable. I am using their latest driver - version 3.4.36.247 dated 7/26/2012.

My old cable works fine with this driver installed. It worked as soon as I plugged it in. That was after struggling for about two hours to get the audyssey supplied cable to work.

I believe that the chip is in the cable assembly - hence Prolific's note about only buying from certain vendors.
Edited by nsaldanh - 12/24/12 at 12:28pm
post #3633 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

Here is the error that I get --- This device cannot start. (Code 10)
I looked on Microsoft's site and they say this is a generic error when windows cannot talk to the device. I tried various versions of the prolific drivers from their web site and none of them worked with the audyssey supplied cable. I am using their latest driver - version 3.4.36.247 dated 7/26/2012.
My old cable works fine with this driver installed. It worked as soon as I plugged it in. That was after struggling for about two hours to get the audyssey supplied cable to work.
I believe that the chip is in the cable assembly - hence Prolific's note about only buying from certain vendors.

Looks like we have the same problem. Except I do not have an older cable to fall back on. I guess I will be contacting Audyssey.
post #3634 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Joel - that should be true, within reason, if your subs have a DSP inside, as many do. I assume you are talking about tape measure distances vs. those determined by Audyssey.[/quote

Yes that probably the reason . After some distance changes to tame the sound around the eq point, the system sounds quite nice.
post #3635 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post



I believe that the chip is in the cable assembly - hence Prolific's note about only buying from certain vendors.

 

Yes, I am in error.  I am looking at the cable right now, and the RS232 end of the cable clearly has a small circuit board and chip inside the plastic housing.  I definitely would contact Audyssey.  They will want to change cable supplier if this is a new and repeatable problem.

post #3636 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SR303 View Post

Looks like we have the same problem. Except I do not have an older cable to fall back on. I guess I will be contacting Audyssey.

I think this is the product that I have:

http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Adapter-Prolific-PL2303HX-Chipset/dp/B00425S1H8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356391931&sr=8-1&keywords=prolific+usb+to+serial+cable

Note this section from the manufacturer:

Connector compatibility note

The DB9 connector has fixed female side screw in connections. For connecting to a device that also has fixed female side connectors an inexpensive DB9 Female/Female Mini Gender Changer (Coupler) will be needed.

Genuine

We use only genuine Prolific chips. There has been a problem with some USB serial adapters using clone chips not actually from Prolific. These adapters will not work with Prolific's latest drivers, thus won't have support on recent operating systems like Windows 7 64-bit and Windows 8. Because we only use genuine Prolific chips, our adapter is always compatible with the latest drivers from Prolific.


I just pulled out the female side connectors using a set of pliers (as I did not want to wait to get a female/female mini gender changer). I can't use screws now to keep it firmly in place, but given that no one touches the cable it works for me.

Good luck. I hope you can get the right cable from Audyssey.
post #3637 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

I think this is the product that I have:
http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Adapter-Prolific-PL2303HX-Chipset/dp/B00425S1H8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356391931&sr=8-1&keywords=prolific+usb+to+serial+cable
Note this section from the manufacturer:
Connector compatibility note
The DB9 connector has fixed female side screw in connections. For connecting to a device that also has fixed female side connectors an inexpensive DB9 Female/Female Mini Gender Changer (Coupler) will be needed.
Genuine
We use only genuine Prolific chips. There has been a problem with some USB serial adapters using clone chips not actually from Prolific. These adapters will not work with Prolific's latest drivers, thus won't have support on recent operating systems like Windows 7 64-bit and Windows 8. Because we only use genuine Prolific chips, our adapter is always compatible with the latest drivers from Prolific.

I just pulled out the female side connectors using a set of pliers (as I did not want to wait to get a female/female mini gender changer). I can't use screws now to keep it firmly in place, but given that no one touches the cable it works for me.
Good luck. I hope you can get the right cable from Audyssey.

Thanks for the info. I see that Plugable is listed as a recommended vendor cable brand on the Prolific website and Prolific has a link to the cable on the Plugable website. I will give it try as it is probably the quickest way to get up and running. But, I am still going to contact Audyssey.
post #3638 of 5258
I got the email about the updated version of Audyssey Pro and came here hoping to find evidence that Audyssey finally admitted to some of the major bugs in Audyssey Pro nowadays, including the Denon 4311 "dual sub bug". Unfortunately it seems that they still haven't addressed it. Is it just me or is Audyssey Pro kinda going down hill these days?

I stopped submitting bug reports to Audyssey a long time ago because I got tired of the their "our product is the best out there and it's completely perfect/bug free" attitude.

I haven't run Audyssey Pro since Audyssey 3.5 came out. Nothing has changed in my room. I'm curious if re-running Pro would be of any benefit. Thoughts?
post #3639 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I got the email about the updated version of Audyssey Pro and came here hoping to find evidence that Audyssey finally admitted to some of the major bugs in Audyssey Pro nowadays, including the Denon 4311 "dual sub bug". Unfortunately it seems that they still haven't addressed it. Is it just me or is Audyssey Pro kinda going down hill these days?
I stopped submitting bug reports to Audyssey a long time ago because I got tired of the their "our product is the best out there and it's completely perfect/bug free" attitude.
I haven't run Audyssey Pro since Audyssey 3.5 came out. Nothing has changed in my room. I'm curious if re-running Pro would be of any benefit. Thoughts?

 

The receny update was specifically to address compatibility with a new AVR, and to correct a serious bug with the serial data rate on the 4520.  If there were any other bug fixes, Audyssey did not say.  I know by my own recent testing that the two-sub issue has not been addressed. 

 

It's hard to say what level of attention Audyssey is paying to the Pro software.  I don't think it contributes to their bottom line, so it's hard to believe that they have a lot of incentive to fix the current bugs (which they believe to be minor, with reasonable work-arounds), or add new functionality.  Just my opinion...

 

Edit:  I see no reason to re-calibrate if you are satisfied with what you have now.

post #3640 of 5258
This has been posted several times. For complicated reasons on the AVR side, the AMD file does *not* store the levels and delays of the subs. This is not a bug. It is "by design" due to architectural issues in the AVR that they can't really get into… So, when loading a previous AMD file you have to manually enter the sub levels and distances (that you hopefully wrote down…).

Jeff
post #3641 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

This has been posted several times. For complicated reasons on the AVR side, the AMD file does *not* store the levels and delays of the subs. This is not a bug. It is "by design" due to architectural issues in the AVR that they can't really get into… So, when loading a previous AMD file you have to manually enter the sub levels and distances (that you hopefully wrote down…).
Jeff

I'm not sure if you were referencing my post or not, but I wasn't talking about loading previous calibrations. I was talking about Audyssey Pro not getting the sub distances right when using both sub outputs on a Denon 4311.

I have two workarounds, but I don't like either.

One is to just use one sub output (Sub Out A) and let Audyssey Pro do its best.

The other one is to use REW to determine the correct delays (trims) for each sub and input them into my Behringer DCX2496. This works rather well, because again I can just use one sub output (Sub Out A).

All that said, I didn't buy the 4311 with Sub HQ blah blah blah technology to have to workaround such a stupid and huge bug that should have never made it into a production environment in the first place.

Personally, I would appreciate it if Audyssey would just officially acknowledge the damn bug and fix it. In other words, take ownership, responsibility, and/or accountability for allowing this obvious bug to be released in the first place and then work with the necessary parties to rectify the situation. Sorry for my bluntness. I am a software engineer (12+ years experience) and this bug should be treated as critical and with high priority. No excuses.

I love my Audyssey, but I don't trust Chris K. any further than I can throw him. I have had too many conversations with him in which he is unwilling to get bugs fixed even when I have gone the extra mile to document the bugs for him so he could easily have them reproduced in the lab. Again, no excuses.
post #3642 of 5258
It seems their focus has leaned more towards portable audio and mobile devices these days than HT. I hope they don't go Bose on us!eek.gif
post #3643 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I'm not sure if you were referencing my post or not, but I wasn't talking about loading previous calibrations. I was talking about Audyssey Pro not getting the sub distances right when using both sub outputs on a Denon 4311.
I have two workarounds, but I don't like either.
One is to just use one sub output (Sub Out A) and let Audyssey Pro do its best.
The other one is to use REW to determine the correct delays (trims) for each sub and input them into my Behringer DCX2496. This works rather well, because again I can just use one sub output (Sub Out A).
All that said, I didn't buy the 4311 with Sub HQ blah blah blah technology to have to workaround such a stupid and huge bug that should have never made it into a production environment in the first place.
Personally, I would appreciate it if Audyssey would just officially acknowledge the damn bug and fix it. In other words, take ownership, responsibility, and/or accountability for allowing this obvious bug to be released in the first place and then work with the necessary parties to rectify the situation. Sorry for my bluntness. I am a software engineer (12+ years experience) and this bug should be treated as critical and with high priority. No excuses.
I love my Audyssey, but I don't trust Chris K. any further than I can throw him. I have had too many conversations with him in which he is unwilling to get bugs fixed even when I have gone the extra mile to document the bugs for him so he could easily have them reproduced in the lab. Again, no excuses.

Sorry, Doug, not being a Denon 4311 owner, I guess I haven't been paying close attention and didn't know that there was a bug that caused Pro to not get sub distances correct when using the mic doing a "fresh" calibration. What have you gotten from Audyssey/audyssey on that? Anything?
post #3644 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

I got substantially different sub distances with the new version 3.6 . i have not tried to vary the sub distances yet to improve response around the xover.
System sounds very nice and for the first time phantom placement of speakers seems good in the DVE pan around the room test.
Anybody else tried the new version with two subs?

Yes, with my new 8801 sub one came in at 6.1 feet (actual is about 13.5) while sub two was more accurate: calculated distance was 14 something, only a foot away from actual. I know the measured distances are not exact since they take into account processing delays, but this disparity for two identical subs seems fairly unusual.

Did not happen with the integra 80.3 with the non patched version of 3.6

And I do not love the low end response right now with the 8801 vs the 80.3. Relatively inarticulate...will try a few more 3 position calls to see if it was a one time thing or something is up...
post #3645 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

It seems their focus has leaned more towards portable audio and mobile devices these days than HT. I hope they don't go Bose on us!eek.gif

Well, not to take anything away from the argument that obvious bugs going unaddressed is disheartening/maddening, they have been updating Pro and including both new models and bug fixes. I suspect that there are more of the latter in 3.6 than the announced one of data transfer rate and that they will reveal them after their licensees "finalize" their firmware.

Jeff
post #3646 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Yes, with my new 8801 sub one came in at 6.1 feet (actual is about 13.5) while sub two was more accurate: calculated distance was 14 something, only a foot away from actual. I know the measured distances are not exact since they take into account processing delays, but this disparity for two identical subs seems fairly unusual.
Did not happen with the integra 80.3 with the non patched version of 3.6
And I do not love the low end response right now with the 8801 vs the 80.3. Relatively inarticulate...will try a few more 3 position calls to see if it was a one time thing or something is up...

Have you used Ask Audyssey or contacted Luke at installer support? If so, what have they told you?
post #3647 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Have you used Ask Audyssey or contacted Luke at installer support? If so, what have they told you?

Emailed Luke this am - first opportunity after Christmas - will see what response I get
post #3648 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

This has been posted several times. For complicated reasons on the AVR side, the AMD file does *not* store the levels and delays of the subs. This is not a bug. It is "by design" due to architectural issues in the AVR that they can't really get into… So, when loading a previous AMD file you have to manually enter the sub levels and distances (that you hopefully wrote down…).
Jeff

 

No disrespect, Jeff, but whether we call it a bug or not is not what concerns me.  There are three issues that I have reported to Audyssey since my purchase of a 4311 in October, 2010. 

 

The first issue was not being able to save a measurement file, reload it, and add additional measurements.  Audyssey's response, which I reported here, was that resource limitations imposed on Audyssey by the AVR manufacturers no longer allowed this functionality.  Audyssey specifically stated that re-loading measurements could only be used to adjust results, e.g. selecting different crossovers, using the curve editor, etc.

 

The second issue, which I believe to be unrelated (but may in fact be related) is that when a measurement file is reloaded, the subsequent save back to the AVR results in incorrect settings for distance and trim on Sub2.  Audyssey's response was to simply re-enter the correct distance and trim values after the calibration was completed.  This has been discussed many times here in the thread, and we have all been advised to write down our sub settings before re-loading a measurement file.

 

The third issue, which affected only my 4311, and which has not been widely reported by any other users, is that the Pro software did not calculate the distance for Sub2 correctly.  I documented this in this thread after upgrading to the 4520, and reported it to Ask Audyssey as well.  In my initial report, I provided evidence of four separate calibrations, a standard calibration as well as a Pro calibration on both the 4311 and the 4520, all other things being kept constant.  In three of the calibrations (standard on both AVR's, and Pro on the 4520), the Sub2 distance was set to 3.5 feet, which is the actual distance.  On the Pro calibration for the 4311, the Sub2 distance was set to 11 feet (consistently, over many Pro calibrations), which is wrong.  Chris' response:  as far as we know, Pro calibrations on the 4311 are working as designed.  No explanation why the 4520 results were different (and IMO correct).

 

So, when I made my statement that I don't think Audyssey is paying much attention to the Pro software,  it is because because of how I perceive the three issues have been handled.  For the first and second issues, if Audyssey was aware of these during the development of XT32/SubEQ HT, then I believe they should have advised their user base of the limitations ahead of time.  If they weren't aware of the issues, then it points to negligence in product testing in advance of the release.

 

For the third issue, I was not pleased with Chris' response, which I considered a brush-off.  Since I had upgraded to the 4520 and was no longer using the 4311 in a two-sub configuration, I didn't press for a better answer.

 

Even with the 4520 serial data transfer rate (which was also reported to me to Ask Audyssey), Chris' response was that the Pro software could not be the root cause of the issue--it had to be Denon's fault.  Only after I reported the issue to Denon, and Denon subsequently contacted Audyssey to work on the problem together, did I receive acknowledgment that "a resolution was being worked on".  Never did I get an admission from Audyssey that their software was the root cause, or an apology from Chris for his initial response.  But the "fix" was an update to the Pro software, so that seems to be an admission that Pro was the root cause.

 

My disappointment is that Audyssey has not been forthcoming with honest communication with us, the Pro community, even though we are probably their most ardent supporters.  I'm done now.

post #3649 of 5258
I hear you.

Audyssey, and more importantly Chris K., has lost all credibility in my eyes. Their blatant disrespect for us Audyssey users is totally unacceptable. It was this disrespect that led me to stop participating in the original Audyssey thread. That thread turned my stomach. I won’t even navigate to it, if it even still exists.

I started participating in this thread because Chris K. finally left AVS, and I found an opportunity to actually participate in a thread about Audyssey that wasn’t tainted with ‘fanboyism’ for Audyssey.

I haven’t participated in AVS for quite some time because of personal reasons, but I was heavily disappointed when I just found out that some of these ‘bugs’ hadn’t been addressed in Audyssey Pro 3.6.x. Especially after all the hard work you guys, and myself, have put into documenting these issues for Audyssey.

Again, I am sick and tired of Audyssey’s excuses.

How hard would it be to put in code to let installers know that additional measurements should not be added to an existing calibration? A simple pop up box when reloading an existing calibration file would suffice.

Also, how hard would it be to put in code to tell installers that the sub trims and distances are more than likely going to incorrect for the second sub output when reloading an existing calibration? Again, all it would take is a simple pop up box. At least until the bug is resolved.

More importantly, how in the world could the third bug even be introduced into a production environment in the first place? Sub EQ HT is all about calibrating two or more subs. How could they get the distance wrong for the second sub when the Denon 4311 was one of the first (if not the first) receivers that incorporated the Sub EQ HT technology in the first place? Did they even test?
Edited by counsil - 12/26/12 at 9:23am
post #3650 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

What have you gotten from Audyssey/audyssey on that? Anything?

What I have gotten from them is that Audyssey is working as designed. They were not able to reproduce the 'issue' in the lab.

I can reproduce this bug all day long. I understand that the calibration results from the consumer (built-in) version of Audyssey will always differ from an Audyssey Pro calibration. Audyssey Pro has many advantages, etc. However, the distance value for the second sub is always way off in Audyssey Pro, even when all the other distances values are almost exactly the same from the consumer (built-in) version of Audyssey.

FYI, I have confirmed via REW and XTZ Room Analyzer that the distance for the second sub is actually incorrect. It is not cosmetic. Audyssey tried to tell me that too! wink.gif

I read the last few pages of this thread, and I am not the only person that is experiencing this bug. This bug has been around for months and has been discussed over and over in here in the past as well. That's why I came here looking for confirmation that they bug had been squashed.
post #3651 of 5258
Running another Pro cal on the 8801 to see if the sub distance issue repeats...can I do a three point measurement, advance to the next screen to check the results, and, if acceptable, click left to continue measuring? This doesn't introduce the other subwoofer distance error (loading a saved cal file for additional measurements)?

Thanks
post #3652 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Running another Pro cal on the 8801 to see if the sub distance issue repeats...can I do a three point measurement, advance to the next screen to check the results, and, if acceptable, click left to continue measuring? This doesn't introduce the other subwoofer distance error (loading a saved cal file for additional measurements)?
Thanks

Well, I guess it doesn't matter as I realize you cannot see the individual sub distanced until to save the final filters to the processor.

Audyssey should give a feedback screen after the first position that indicates all the distances (my understanding is only the first measurement position is what's uses to determine distances, correct?)
post #3653 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

It seems their focus has leaned more towards portable audio and mobile devices these days than HT. I hope they don't go Bose on us!eek.gif

 

:)  That nicely encapsulates what has been my own vague feeling for some time. They do seem to be more interested in 'products' these days, not one of which has the slightest relevance or interest to me. The lack of documentation for Pro is unforgivable IMO. And the actual errors in the on line 'instructions' even more so. If it wasn't for this thread, some users would not be able to get Pro running *at all*.

post #3654 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post.

 

My disappointment is that Audyssey has not been forthcoming with honest communication with us, the Pro community, even though we are probably their most ardent supporters.  I'm done now.

 

I have huge sympathy with all of your post there, Jerry.

post #3655 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

... how in the world could the third bug even be introduced into a production environment in the first place? Sub EQ HT is all about calibrating two or more subs. 

 

Indeed. And on the results screen/graphs, the second sub isn't even mentioned!

post #3656 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Running another Pro cal on the 8801 to see if the sub distance issue repeats...can I do a three point measurement, advance to the next screen to check the results, and, if acceptable, click left to continue measuring? This doesn't introduce the other subwoofer distance error (loading a saved cal file for additional measurements)?
Thanks

To answer this question, which may be moot now, yes, you can calculate, observe the results (only for one sub, of course), and then click the Back arrow to proceed with additional measurements. This does not invoke the "add measurements" issue we have been discussing.
post #3657 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post



My disappointment is that Audyssey has not been forthcoming with honest communication with us, the Pro community, even though we are probably their most ardent supporters. 

That is understandable. And I agree that these issues could have been dealt with more transparently. And not to argue against your passion, but with #1 and #2 and them running into resource limitations for which they have no workaround, I don't see how that can be laid at their doorstep. Again, it could have been handle with better communications, but even then we would still be at the same place.

Issue #3 is a bucking fug, period. And I will be happy to charge up the hill with you on it!

Jeff
post #3658 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Running another Pro cal on the 8801 to see if the sub distance issue repeats...can I do a three point measurement, advance to the next screen to check the results, and, if acceptable, click left to continue measuring? This doesn't introduce the other subwoofer distance error (loading a saved cal file for additional measurements)?
Thanks

When it was discovered that calibrations did not contain sub distance and level data, and that one;s settings for those could be corrupted, I did just that: I ran a 3-position calibration, wrote down the information, terminated the calibration and manually entered the settings.
post #3659 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Well, I guess it doesn't matter as I realize you cannot see the individual sub distanced until to save the final filters to the processor.
Audyssey should give a feedback screen after the first position that indicates all the distances (my understanding is only the first measurement position is what's uses to determine distances, correct?)

You can save it, write down the settings and then load a previous - and complete - calibration. It is a pain, but it works.

Here is where AJ's decrying their falling down on behalf of their fans rings like a bell; we had to discover this ourselves. And even then, an acknowledgement was, at best, oblique.
post #3660 of 5258
You can actually stop and check after mic #1 position as (unless the Pro kit does it differently) the distance settings are only measured in mic position #1. smile.gif
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