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The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 123

post #3661 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

You can actually stop and check after mic #1 position as (unless the Pro kit does it differently) the distance settings are only measured in mic position #1. smile.gif

Unfortunately, the Pro software forces a minimum of three measurements before it will allow you to proceed to the calculation phase.
post #3662 of 5258
Got it. Thanks for the correction AJ. smile.gif
post #3663 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

What I have gotten from them is that Audyssey is working as designed. They were not able to reproduce the 'issue' in the lab.
I can reproduce this bug all day long. I understand that the calibration results from the consumer (built-in) version of Audyssey will always differ from an Audyssey Pro calibration. Audyssey Pro has many advantages, etc. However, the distance value for the second sub is always way off in Audyssey Pro, even when all the other distances values are almost exactly the same from the consumer (built-in) version of Audyssey.
FYI, I have confirmed via REW and XTZ Room Analyzer that the distance for the second sub is actually incorrect. It is not cosmetic. Audyssey tried to tell me that too! wink.gif
I read the last few pages of this thread, and I am not the only person that is experiencing this bug. This bug has been around for months and has been discussed over and over in here in the past as well. That's why I came here looking for confirmation that they bug had been squashed.

I have a bug with Pro and the SubEQ where it would at random not advance/prompt to the next measurement position at times taking measurements and I would end up having to take measurements twice for the same position.This has happened on both units that I've owned.My SEQ never does this.

I sent them a message about it and they said they would look into it,but the issue still persists.I would think it would be an easy fix.
post #3664 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Unfortunately, the Pro software forces a minimum of three measurements before it will allow you to proceed to the calculation phase.

Yes and even then it only shows some average of the two subwoofers distances - only when you complete the process and save to the processor can you see the individual distance settings In the processor.

Nonetheless, I did a new 10 point Pro cal, and both subs now read relatively close to the actual distances, and low end is much better now on the 8801
post #3665 of 5258
Well, I got a new USB to RS232 cable from Amazon. No more driver problem. Thanks.

Now I am getting an Audyssey Pro error when trying to run Audyssey Pro on the AV8801.
“Communication timeout error. Please check the connection and verify that 2Way Remote is set to Not Used.”

I had been using the RS232 connection with my remote control which is working fine, getting back info from the AV8801. There is a one time setup for RS232 usage in the AV8801 manual (which I did), but there is no description on how to turn it off. I reset the AV8801 back to factory settings a couple of times, but that did not help.

Anyone have any experiences with this error?
post #3666 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SR303 View Post

Well, I got a new USB to RS232 cable from Amazon. No more driver problem. Thanks.
Now I am getting an Audyssey Pro error when trying to run Audyssey Pro on the AV8801.
“Communication timeout error. Please check the connection and verify that 2Way Remote is set to Not Used.”
I had been using the RS232 connection with my remote control which is working fine, getting back info from the AV8801. There is a one time setup for RS232 usage in the AV8801 manual (which I did), but there is no description on how to turn it off. I reset the AV8801 back to factory settings a couple of times, but that did not help.
Anyone have any experiences with this error?

Yes, I have experienced this error and have reported it in this thread. It is even referenced in the Pro FAQ.

This is a PC-side issue. If there has been no activity on the USB-to-Serial interface for a certain amount of time (only a couple of minutes), then the interface ties out. The next time Pro tries to communicate with the AVR, you get that error message. The fix, or work-around, is to first acknowledge the error, then briefly unplug the USB side of the cable from the laptop and plug it back in. This resets the connection, and you should be able to proceed.

The timeout can occur if you spend too much time moving the mic to a new position, or (most commonly) when you spend too much time trying to decide which crossovers to use on the results page, before you save the settings to the AVR. Once you understand what is causing the error, the work-around I describe seems to be reasonable to me. Regardless, it is not IMO an Audyssey issue.
post #3667 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Yes, I have experienced this error and have reported it in this thread. It is even referenced in the Pro FAQ.
This is a PC-side issue. If there has been no activity on the USB-to-Serial interface for a certain amount of time (only a couple of minutes), then the interface ties out. The next time Pro tries to communicate with the AVR, you get that error message. The fix, or work-around, is to first acknowledge the error, then briefly unplug the USB side of the cable from the laptop and plug it back in. This resets the connection, and you should be able to proceed.
The timeout can occur if you spend too much time moving the mic to a new position, or (most commonly) when you spend too much time trying to decide which crossovers to use on the results page, before you save the settings to the AVR. Once you understand what is causing the error, the work-around I describe seems to be reasonable to me. Regardless, it is not IMO an Audyssey issue.

I agree also that it is not an Audyssey issue. I'm using a Denon A100 and have a permanent RS232-USB cable installed (purchased from Amazon also and a 10ft one for the HTPC). It never hangs up. I can leave it on for 1 hour and it's still ready to go.
post #3668 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post


I agree also that it is not an Audyssey issue. I'm using a Denon A100 and have a permanent RS232-USB cable installed (purchased from Amazon also and a 10ft one for the HTPC). It never hangs up. I can leave it on for 1 hour and it's still ready to go.

 

Thanks for that feedback.  I spent some time researching why the USB port was timing out, but never had any luck.  Since the work-around was so reasonable, I never felt the need to continue looking for an answer.

post #3669 of 5258
I upgraded Audyssey Pro this afternoon and decided to run Audyssey again. I know there weren't supposed to be any updates (bug fixes) in this version, but I had re-arranged some furniture, etc since my last run. I like to run Audyssey a few times a year anyway. Just to ensure it's running optimally.

I also updated the drivers for the Audyssey supplied Prolific PL2303 USB to Serial cable to version 1.7.0 just for kicks. I was running version 1.5 before.

I didn't try using both sub outputs again this time because I didn't want to have to re-run Audyssey Pro if it still couldn't get the distance right for the second sub output. I might try later if I have time. You never know; Audyssey might get it right the next time.

BTW, I noticed you guys have been working on Audyssey Pro FAQs. I haven't taken the time to read them over yet, but I will. Do you guys see any benefit in uploading any old versions of Audyssey Pro or USB to Serial drivers just in case folks want/need them later on?

I have the following saved off:

--> Audyssey Pro versions 2.2, 2.5, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 (x 2), 3.3, 3.4, 3.5 (x 2), and 3.6 (x 2). I also have the "Product Codes" for version 2.2.

--> Prolific PL-2303 versions 1.0.1.3, 1.2.1.0, 1.3.0, 1.50, and 1.7.0.

I deleted all of my documentation (i.e. Release Notes) for each version of Audyssey, but some of the older versions of Audyssey Pro have TONS of AVR specific documents that can no longer be downloaded. Some of those documents did a great job showing how to get all the hardware setup prior to running Audyssey. Just a thought. Let me know if you guys want any of my old downloads and I'll get them to you.
post #3670 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I upgraded Audyssey Pro this afternoon and decided to run Audyssey again. I know there weren't supposed to be any updates (bug fixes) in this version, but I had re-arranged some furniture, etc since my last run. I like to run Audyssey a few times a year anyway. Just to ensure it's running optimally.
I also updated the drivers for the Audyssey supplied Prolific PL2303 USB to Serial cable to version 1.7.0 just for kicks. I was running version 1.5 before.
I didn't try using both sub outputs again this time because I didn't want to have to re-run Audyssey Pro if it still couldn't get the distance right for the second sub output. I might try later if I have time. You never know; Audyssey might get it right the next time.
BTW, I noticed you guys have been working on Audyssey Pro FAQs. I haven't taken the time to read them over yet, but I will. Do you guys see any benefit in uploading any old versions of Audyssey Pro or USB to Serial drivers just in case folks want/need them later on?
I have the following saved off:
--> Audyssey Pro versions 2.2, 2.5, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 (x 2), 3.3, 3.4, 3.5 (x 2), and 3.6 (x 2). I also have the "Product Codes" for version 2.2.
--> Prolific PL-2303 versions 1.0.1.3, 1.2.1.0, 1.3.0, 1.50, and 1.7.0.
I deleted all of my documentation (i.e. Release Notes) for each version of Audyssey, but some of the older versions of Audyssey Pro have TONS of AVR specific documents that can no longer be downloaded. Some of those documents did a great job showing how to get all the hardware setup prior to running Audyssey. Just a thought. Let me know if you guys want any of my old downloads and I'll get them to you.

One of the main reasons new versions are released is to support new AVR's. In my case, since I have a Denon 4520, only the latest version 3.6 supports this platform. Also, I am unaware of a new version that has broken something that would call for a fall-back to a previous version.

For example, when XT32 was introduced, the first Pro version that supported XT32 exhibited the problem where you can't load a previously-saved file and add new measurements. Falling back to a previous software version was not an option. Same goes for the Sub2 distance issue, which manifested itself on my 4311 using the first Pro version that supported the 4311.

So, I am not sure that older SW versions are very useful, but I certainly appreciate your offer.
post #3671 of 5258
Fixed my “Communication timeout error. Please check the connection and verify that 2Way Remote is set to Not Used” error.

I was using a USB extension cable with the new USB-to-Serial cable. Took out the extension cable and no more problems.
post #3672 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Unfortunately, the Pro software forces a minimum of three measurements before it will allow you to proceed to the calculation phase.

The "workaround" for this, for the purposes of re-establishing the correct sub distances/levels, is to take three measurements at the first mic position/MLP.

Jeff
post #3673 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Yes and even then it only shows some average of the two subwoofers distances - only when you complete the process and save to the processor can you see the individual distance settings In the processor.
Nonetheless, I did a new 10 point Pro cal, and both subs now read relatively close to the actual distances, and low end is much better now on the 8801

Yes, the calibration must be loaded to see the granularity of the two subs, but once one has those settings written down, a "real" calibration can be loaded. Going forward, this workaround never needs to be used again.
post #3674 of 5258
In the back of my mind, I have this fear that when Pro sets the sub distances wrong when re-loading and saving a calibration, that something with the sub filters may be wrong as well. AFAIK, the only way to make sure something funny isn't happening would be to measure the sub response, load a save measurement file, re-calculate the filters, save them to the AVR, correct the improperly-set distance for Sub2, and then re-run the same set of measurements. If nothing has changed, then the filters are indeed still correct. If the measurements show a significant difference, that would be a whole new can of worms.

Perhaps I am being overly obsessive. Thoughts?
post #3675 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

In the back of my mind, I have this fear that when Pro sets the sub distances wrong when re-loading and saving a calibration, that something with the sub filters may be wrong as well. AFAIK, the only way to make sure something funny isn't happening would be to measure the sub response, load a save measurement file, re-calculate the filters, save them to the AVR, correct the improperly-set distance for Sub2, and then re-run the same set of measurements. If nothing has changed, then the filters are indeed still correct. If the measurements show a significant difference, that would be a whole new can of worms.

Perhaps I am being overly obsessive. Thoughts?

I share that fear too. IIRC I specifically asked Chris about this and he said the filters were being made correctly.

post #3676 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SR303 View Post

Well, I got a new USB to RS232 cable from Amazon. No more driver problem. Thanks.
Now I am getting an Audyssey Pro error when trying to run Audyssey Pro on the AV8801.
“Communication timeout error. Please check the connection and verify that 2Way Remote is set to Not Used.”
I had been using the RS232 connection with my remote control which is working fine, getting back info from the AV8801. There is a one time setup for RS232 usage in the AV8801 manual (which I did), but there is no description on how to turn it off. I reset the AV8801 back to factory settings a couple of times, but that did not help.
Anyone have any experiences with this error?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Yes, I have experienced this error and have reported it in this thread. It is even referenced in the Pro FAQ.
This is a PC-side issue. If there has been no activity on the USB-to-Serial interface for a certain amount of time (only a couple of minutes), then the interface ties out. The next time Pro tries to communicate with the AVR, you get that error message. The fix, or work-around, is to first acknowledge the error, then briefly unplug the USB side of the cable from the laptop and plug it back in. This resets the connection, and you should be able to proceed.
The timeout can occur if you spend too much time moving the mic to a new position, or (most commonly) when you spend too much time trying to decide which crossovers to use on the results page, before you save the settings to the AVR. Once you understand what is causing the error, the work-around I describe seems to be reasonable to me. Regardless, it is not IMO an Audyssey issue.

Actually, this error is from interference from IP control devices such as ORemote and Pro's communication with the attached device. I don't know that it always interferes, but when it does turning off the remote function clears the error and allows normal Pro operation. On my Onkyo, there is a "Remote" setting in the "Network" section of the menu. I am sure this has come up ... I think I have posted on it before ... I looked in the Pro FAQ and didn't see it mentioned.

Once I have established communications between Pro and a receiver/processor, I have never had a communications time-out error. For anyone who does, I would suggest looking at this as a possibility. And if the error specifically mentions "2 way remote," I'd bet on it.

Jeff

edit: here is one of my posts on the issue.
Edited by pepar - 12/29/12 at 9:45am
post #3677 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

In the back of my mind, I have this fear that when Pro sets the sub distances wrong when re-loading and saving a calibration, that something with the sub filters may be wrong as well. AFAIK, the only way to make sure something funny isn't happening would be to measure the sub response, load a save measurement file, re-calculate the filters, save them to the AVR, correct the improperly-set distance for Sub2, and then re-run the same set of measurements. If nothing has changed, then the filters are indeed still correct. If the measurements show a significant difference, that would be a whole new can of worms.
Perhaps I am being overly obsessive. Thoughts?

I don't think it sets them wrong, I think it is more like it doesn't set them at all. (AMD files do not contain sub distance and level information.) During my recent networking issues I ran a complete consumer Audyssey calibration and noted that the distances and settings for the subs were slightly different from the settings I had written down for the Pro calibrations. Subsequently, I restored the networking and reloaded a Pro cal. I went into the menu and noticed that the settings from the consumer cal were still there.

Now, how do those settings go wrong when only using Pro - which I have had happen after many, many reloads - ??? Well, I have no idea. Perhaps it's like any other stored digital data that becomes corrupted for no apparent reason.

Jeff
post #3678 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Subsequently, I restored the networking and reloaded a Pro cal. I went into the menu and noticed that the settings from the consumer cal were still there.
Jeff

The question this suggests to me is when should a processor be reset to factory defaults before running a calibration such as when changing from consumer to pro. I expect the need to reset depends more on the model family firmware than anything Pro does. Anytime one sees varying results between calibrations that there is no explanation for I would suggest that a reset before a calibration may resolve the differences in results.
post #3679 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by retate View Post

The question this suggests to me is when should a processor be reset to factory defaults before running a calibration such as when changing from consumer to pro. I expect the need to reset depends more on the model family firmware than anything Pro does. Anytime one sees varying results between calibrations that there is no explanation for I would suggest that a reset before a calibration may resolve the differences in results.

We only know about Pro not re-loading sub distances and levels because some members here noticed bogus settings. And even then, after Audyssey was asked about it, answers on the subject were ... dense. Finally, a question was emailed to the CTO and the reply came back that the AMD files did not store that info because of architectural reasons (of the receivers/processors) that they were not at liberty to explain further.

Other than this, I don't know of any other "varying results." At least I don't know of any that we would be able to detect. Unless dramatic, we usually can't hear differences in calibrations. And when we can hear differences, it has many times come down to something being done differently during the measuring phase. And as I mentioned, my sub distances and levels are slightly different from MultEQ to MultEQ Pro which I chalk it off to slight differences in the detection routines.

The "reset" that wipes Audyssey calibrations also wipes EVERYTHING else. For me anyway, that is to be avoided. smile.gif

Jeff
post #3680 of 5258

Can a different Serial to USB cable be used other than the supplied one in the Pro Kit?

 

The supplied cable is really short and it would be nice to be able to use a longer one.

post #3681 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SR303 View Post

Well, I got a new USB to RS232 cable from Amazon. No more driver problem. Thanks.
Now I am getting an Audyssey Pro error when trying to run Audyssey Pro on the AV8801.
“Communication timeout error. Please check the connection and verify that 2Way Remote is set to Not Used.”
I had been using the RS232 connection with my remote control which is working fine, getting back info from the AV8801. There is a one time setup for RS232 usage in the AV8801 manual (which I did), but there is no description on how to turn it off. I reset the AV8801 back to factory settings a couple of times, but that did not help.
Anyone have any experiences with this error?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Yes, I have experienced this error and have reported it in this thread. It is even referenced in the Pro FAQ.
This is a PC-side issue. If there has been no activity on the USB-to-Serial interface for a certain amount of time (only a couple of minutes), then the interface ties out. The next time Pro tries to communicate with the AVR, you get that error message. The fix, or work-around, is to first acknowledge the error, then briefly unplug the USB side of the cable from the laptop and plug it back in. This resets the connection, and you should be able to proceed.
The timeout can occur if you spend too much time moving the mic to a new position, or (most commonly) when you spend too much time trying to decide which crossovers to use on the results page, before you save the settings to the AVR. Once you understand what is causing the error, the work-around I describe seems to be reasonable to me. Regardless, it is not IMO an Audyssey issue.

Actually, this error is from interference from IP control devices such as ORemote and Pro's communication with the attached device. I don't know that it always interferes, but when it does turning off the remote function clears the error and allows normal Pro operation. On my Onkyo, there is a "Remote" setting in the "Network" section of the menu. I am sure this has come up ... I think I have posted on it before ... I looked in the Pro FAQ and didn't see it mentioned.

Once I have established communications between Pro and a receiver/processor, I have never had a communications time-out error. For anyone who does, I would suggest looking at this as a possibility. And if the error specifically mentions "2 way remote," I'd bet on it.

Jeff

edit: here is one of my posts on the issue.

 

Jeff - this ought to be in the FAQ but I have no idea what it is about as I do not have a USB-serial interface. If you or someone can draft the question and answer, I am sure it would be a useful addition to the FAQ.

post #3682 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by weird 23 View Post

Can a different Serial to USB cable be used other than the supplied one in the Pro Kit?

 

The supplied cable is really short and it would be nice to be able to use a longer one.

 I would think that extending the serial side cable would not be a problem.

post #3683 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post


Actually, this error is from interference from IP control devices such as ORemote and Pro's communication with the attached device. I don't know that it always interferes, but when it does turning off the remote function clears the error and allows normal Pro operation. On my Onkyo, there is a "Remote" setting in the "Network" section of the menu. I am sure this has come up ... I think I have posted on it before ... I looked in the Pro FAQ and didn't see it mentioned.
Once I have established communications between Pro and a receiver/processor, I have never had a communications time-out error. For anyone who does, I would suggest looking at this as a possibility. And if the error specifically mentions "2 way remote," I'd bet on it.
Jeff
edit: here is one of my posts on the issue.

 

I believe we are talking about a "communications timeout error" that happens on the Serial-to-USB connection on a Denon or Marantz (which is what the OP has).  I believe you have an Onkyo and connect via the network.  I can re-create the error at will by just pausing my calibration for 4-5 minutes, allowing the USB port to time out.  It has nothing to do with an IP control device, because I have none.

post #3684 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

Jeff - this ought to be in the FAQ but I have no idea what it is about as I do not have a USB-serial interface. If you or someone can draft the question and answer, I am sure it would be a useful addition to the FAQ.

 

It is already in the FAQ, Keith, under:

 

b)5. How do I connect the Audyssey Pro Kit to my AVR or AVP?

 

Note: On some Windows computers, the USB-serial connection will time out after a period of inactivity (several minutes). If a timeout occurs, you will get a 'Communications timeout error' message. To restore the USB-serial connection, simply unplug the USB cable from the computer, plug it right back in, and proceed with the calibration.

post #3685 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post


I don't think it sets them wrong, I think it is more like it doesn't set them at all. (AMD files do not contain sub distance and level information.) During my recent networking issues I ran a complete consumer Audyssey calibration and noted that the distances and settings for the subs were slightly different from the settings I had written down for the Pro calibrations. Subsequently, I restored the networking and reloaded a Pro cal. I went into the menu and noticed that the settings from the consumer cal were still there.
Now, how do those settings go wrong when only using Pro - which I have had happen after many, many reloads - ??? Well, I have no idea. Perhaps it's like any other stored digital data that becomes corrupted for no apparent reason.
Jeff

 

Jeff, we already know about the distances.  My post was questioning the validity of the sub filters.  As Keith mentions, he asked Chris about this.  However, some of us have called Chris' responses into question lately.  As I said, I'll probably run a measurement test and report my findings back here.  I don't expect to find a difference, but I would feel better trying to make sure.

post #3686 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I believe we are talking about a "communications timeout error" that happens on the Serial-to-USB connection on a Denon or Marantz (which is what the OP has).  I believe you have an Onkyo and connect via the network.  I can re-create the error at will by just pausing my calibration for 4-5 minutes, allowing the USB port to time out.  It has nothing to do with an IP control device, because I have none.

OK, but the OP I was quoting specifically mentioned "2Way Remote." My present Onk connects via ethernet, but my Onk 885 was serial and never timed out. I'm not disbelieving your experience, just commenting on mine.

I am probably guilty of conflating; apparently there are a few reasons why serial-to-USB connections can fail.
post #3687 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Jeff, we already know about the distances.  My post was questioning the validity of the sub filters.  As Keith mentions, he asked Chris about this.  However, some of us have called Chris' responses into question lately.  As I said, I'll probably run a measurement test and report my findings back here.  I don't expect to find a difference, but I would feel better trying to make sure.

Yes, I was purposely ignoring that part of your comment out of concern that it would only cause you to lose (more?) sleep. wink.gif
post #3688 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Jeff - this ought to be in the FAQ but I have no idea what it is about as I do not have a USB-serial interface. If you or someone can draft the question and answer, I am sure it would be a useful addition to the FAQ.

As AJ points out, it is in the FAQ, but adding something about a "remote" conflicting would be good. In this situation, control over IP can cause problems with Pro connections via serial or ethernet.
post #3689 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

Jeff - this ought to be in the FAQ but I have no idea what it is about as I do not have a USB-serial interface. If you or someone can draft the question and answer, I am sure it would be a useful addition to the FAQ.

 

It is already in the FAQ, Keith, under:

 

b)5. How do I connect the Audyssey Pro Kit to my AVR or AVP?

 

Note: On some Windows computers, the USB-serial connection will time out after a period of inactivity (several minutes). If a timeout occurs, you will get a 'Communications timeout error' message. To restore the USB-serial connection, simply unplug the USB cable from the computer, plug it right back in, and proceed with the calibration.

 

Ah right. I was wondering about all this having to buy new cables etc that was under discussion. I haven't read the discussion in depth as I don;'t use a USB-serial interface.

post #3690 of 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by weird 23 View Post

Can a different Serial to USB cable be used other than the supplied one in the Pro Kit?

 

The supplied cable is really short and it would be nice to be able to use a longer one.

You can extend the cable with an RS232 straight-through cable.  You can, also, use another serial-to-USB adapter/cable.  I have used a cheap Walmart adapter for years with Audyssey and Meridian.

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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1)