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The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 129

post #3841 of 4427
2/3/13 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^It is my understanding that identical subs equidistant from MLP would not likely benefit from the trouble of gain-matching. The fact that they are within 0.5dB further supports this with a measured result.

As to -8 AVR sub trims, there has been discussion on this topic on the Audyssey thread repeatedly, last not too long ago.

My take: if you don't use AutoOn/Off for your subs, or if this level of signal is sufficient to turn them on and keep them on, then you should be fine at -8. SQ should be unaffected whether it's -8 or -3.5 or 3.5.

Thanks - sort of what I was thinking and why I was asking...also just came across Chris K's comment on the issue on the Audyssey forums...
Quote:
As for the sib trim showing up between ±3 dB, that's one of those internet myths that is going around. That level adjustment is just a relative number that makes sure your sub is playing at the same level as the other speakers.
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post #3842 of 4427
2/3/13 at 9:17am
Thread Starter 
^Correct, though as is too often the case, the picture is more complex than that quote would imply.

For ex., AVR sub ch trims in high positive territory may cause some subs to clip the signal, producing distortion.

And then there was this weird experience I had which seemed to indicate that staying near zero ch trim might indeed produce better results for some folks in dealing with large peaks and dips as I have. However, I did not repeat the experiment by then raising the sub Vol controls, rerunning and checking out the Pro After graph, nor did I use an external measuring system (the After graphs are predictions based on the measurements and known applied filters). And IIRC Chris more or less said Luke was wrong on that point and reiterated more or less the quote you found above.

Oh, a tip for your next rerun-I've had to purposely game the XT32 sub level screen, setting the subs to under 70dB, to get them close to zero trim combined.
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post #3843 of 4427
2/3/13 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Keith

Read though portions of your FAQ, tremendous job. Little confused on the gain matching of subs.

Currently, I have not gained matched, though using a the pro level matching, the sub gain settings are nearly identical, and the completed pro cal has the sub trims within .5db of one another. The subs are identical Fathom f113, in approximately equal opposing placement in the left and right front portions of the room.

If I were to gain match, I'm not sure what I'm doing with the initial sound meter reading with the sub in the center of the room. I surmise I am leaving the prerpro trim at 0, and shooting for the approximate reading, give or take, of 90 db with the sub trim, user the assumption the reading will drop nearer to 75 db once in returned to its original location and using the audyssey level match? Couldn't one put the each sub in the center of the room one a t a time and use the level match readout in pro for each sub to accomplish similar result, then run the full calibration and don't touch the Pro level adjustments further regardless of the error message, presuming you are withing +- 3db?

And on that +/- 3db point, you mention:
Quote:
When the calibration has completed, observe what trim level Audyssey sets in the AVR for the sub channels. Ideally, it should be in the -3dB to +3 dB range. If it is too far towards either limit, go back to step 5 and use either a lower or higher target gain level, depending on your final results.

Right now, I am at -8 and -8.5 on the trims after level matching each sub in position. Why is this not optimal? I thought as long as you were not at the max trim levels (which would potentially imply more trim might have been needed but the range was not there), one was fine...

Thanks

 

I concur with SoundofMind's analysis above.

 

WRT to trims, -8 is fine so long as that doesn't cause them not to wake up if auto-on is used. The most important thing is not to have the trims set too *high* as this can possibly clip the input on the sub amp. -8 also gives you the opportunity to turn up the sub trim by a few dB if you prefer more bass, which would be tricky if they were at +8db.  I suggest you are good to go as things stand.

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post #3844 of 4427
2/3/13 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Correct, though as is too often the case, the picture is more complex than that quote would imply.

For ex., AVR sub ch trims in high positive territory may cause some subs to clip the signal, producing distortion.

And then there was this weird experience I had which seemed to indicate that staying near zero ch trim might indeed produce better results for some folks in dealing with large peaks and dips as I have. However, I did not repeat the experiment by then raising the sub Vol controls, rerunning and checking out the Pro After graph, nor did I use an external measuring system (the After graphs are predictions based on the measurements and known applied filters). And IIRC Chris more or less said Luke was wrong on that point and reiterated more or less the quote you found above.

Oh, a tip for your next rerun-I've had to purposely game the XT32 sub level screen, setting the subs to under 70dB, to get them close to zero trim combined.

So purposely level match them lower than the 75 db target to see if the trims are closer to 0db...I was thinking of this earlier, but was wondering what benefit it might achieve...I do have a dip around 50hz, so I can try this and compare the pre-graphs of both approaches...though my gain is barely 25% on each sub as it is...

I am using the Fathom ARO feature...

Thanks
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post #3845 of 4427
2/3/13 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

 
Thanks - sort of what I was thinking and why I was asking...also just came across Chris K's comment on the issue on the Audyssey forums...
Quote:
As for the sib trim showing up between ±3 dB, that's one of those internet myths that is going around. That level adjustment is just a relative number that makes sure your sub is playing at the same level as the other speakers.

 

As is often the case, Chris gives an incomplete reply and considers only Audyssey issues when he gives it. There is no doubt that running the trim very low can cause issues with some auto-on subs failing to turn on. Similarly there is no doubt that a very high sub trim can clip the sub amp input (this will be sub-specific so there is no hard and fast rule) and if that happens the sub could potentially be damaged, depending on whether it has relevant protection circuitry or not. Similarly, a high sub trim level makes it more difficult to run the bass hot by a few dB (which many prefer) without also running close to the 'danger level' where clipping might occur. So the advice I always give is to go for a trim towards the centre of the range - this will always be OK in all circumstances so it is 'safe' advice. I have to generalise in the FAQ because there are so many permutations of gear and the way it is used - and the FAQ is really aimed at newcomers to Audyssey so I can't assume any significant level of technical understanding. Having said all that, in your case I am sure -8 will be fine.

 

Thanks for the kind words about the FAQ, BTW. Appreciated!

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post #3846 of 4427
2/3/13 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
^I have Velodynes, each with buit-in SMS but purposely do not use it because the buit-in version cannot EQ the two subs firing simultaneously. So I placed them using SMS but then turn off all internal EQ and rely on XT32.
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post #3847 of 4427
2/3/13 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

So purposely level match them lower than the 75 db target to see if the trims are closer to 0db...I was thinking of this earlier, but was wondering what benefit it might achieve...I do have a dip around 50hz, so I can try this and compare the pre-graphs of both approaches...though my gain is barely 25% on each sub as it is...

I am using the Fathom ARO feature...

Thanks

I tried ARO on my Fathom. I felt it was redundant and that my results were better with just Audyssey by itself. ARO only EQ's for the single worst peak, which Audyssey can easily take care of without help from ARO.
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post #3848 of 4427
2/3/13 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

I tried ARO on my Fathom. I felt it was redundant and that my results were better with just Audyssey by itself. ARO only EQ's for the single worst peak, which Audyssey can easily take care of without help from ARO.

My thinking was the ARO tames the biggest peak, so.this would give a better starting point for Audyssey...what's another hour between me and my equipment...I can always try a cal with ARO defeated (though things sound quite good as it is...)
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post #3849 of 4427
2/7/13 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Correct, though as is too often the case, the picture is more complex than that quote would imply.

For ex., AVR sub ch trims in high positive territory may cause some subs to clip the signal, producing distortion.

And then there was this weird experience I had which seemed to indicate that staying near zero ch trim might indeed produce better results for some folks in dealing with large peaks and dips as I have. However, I did not repeat the experiment by then raising the sub Vol controls, rerunning and checking out the Pro After graph, nor did I use an external measuring system (the After graphs are predictions based on the measurements and known applied filters). And IIRC Chris more or less said Luke was wrong on that point and reiterated more or less the quote you found above.

Oh, a tip for your next rerun-I've had to purposely game the XT32 sub level screen, setting the subs to under 70dB, to get them close to zero trim combined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Correct, though as is too often the case, the picture is more complex than that quote would imply.

For ex., AVR sub ch trims in high positive territory may cause some subs to clip the signal, producing distortion.

And then there was this weird experience I had which seemed to indicate that staying near zero ch trim might indeed produce better results for some folks in dealing with large peaks and dips as I have. However, I did not repeat the experiment by then raising the sub Vol controls, rerunning and checking out the Pro After graph, nor did I use an external measuring system (the After graphs are predictions based on the measurements and known applied filters). And IIRC Chris more or less said Luke was wrong on that point and reiterated more or less the quote you found above.

Oh, a tip for your next rerun-I've had to purposely game the XT32 sub level screen, setting the subs to under 70dB, to get them close to zero trim combined.

No, I think Chris is right. All the trim does is adjust for amp and speaker sensitivity so as to get the sub or other channel to reference output level of 75 dB with a reference input level. That is not overtaxing the sub or its amps, unless they have serious design problems playing at reasonable levels. The higher trim level does not mean that the sub is playing louder or working harder than the other channels for the same input.

Having said that, though, there may be hidden limits either in Audyssey or in the processor to maximum output levels. Possibly, these are affected by the trim level. I remember a review awhile back of the Denon prepro that complained about dynamic limitations with it after the Audyssey calibration. We also know that many units limit the trims themselves to +/- 20 dB. Not sure if this is Audyssey or the prepro.

Personally, I like having the sub level trimming feature in Pro to get the sub trim to within 3dB prior to calibration. I have had no problems doing it that way, nor have I been tempted to turn the bass up or down post calibration.
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post #3850 of 4427
2/7/13 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

No, I think Chris is right. All the trim does is adjust for amp and speaker sensitivity so as to get the sub or other channel to reference output level of 75 dB with a reference input level. That is not overtaxing the sub or its amps, unless they have serious design problems playing at reasonable levels. The higher trim level does not mean that the sub is playing louder or working harder than the other channels for the same input.

 

The higher the sub trim level the greater the voltage that will be seen at the sub amp's input, with the consequent requirement to reduce the gain on the sub amp in order to compensate for the high trim and at the same time play at the desired level of 75dB.  It is possible that this voltage could be too high for a particular sub and that it could then clip the sub amp's input. This may or may not cause damage to the sub, depending on its design and its protection features. But it could cause distortion. By aiming for a trim that is out of the extremes, these dangers are eliminated, with no negative consequences and no downsides. Thus it seems sensible to avoid sub trim levels that approach the extremes.

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post #3851 of 4427
2/7/13 at 8:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post


No, I think Chris is right. All the trim does is adjust for amp and speaker sensitivity so as to get the sub or other channel to reference output level of 75 dB with a reference input level.
Agreed.

That is not overtaxing the sub or its amps, unless they have serious design problems playing at reasonable levels.
But there are apparently documented instances of some stage of the sub preamp/amplification circuits being overdriven at very high processor sub ch trims.

The higher trim level does not mean that the sub is playing louder or working harder than the other channels for the same input.
Agreed.
fitz, see comments imbedded

edit: I agree with keith's post
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post #3852 of 4427
2/8/13 at 6:39am
OK, I get it. It is purely an input overload problem, not an amp or driver problem at the sub end. And, it affects only some subs, which may not be as robustly designed as others. That input overload would cause damage at the fairly low voltage and current levels involved on the input side of the sub, even with fairly high trims, points to a clear sub design issue. Even there, the problem seems to go away if the Audyssey user correctly sets the level at the sub to yield trims close to zero dB. Do we know which ones?
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post #3853 of 4427
2/8/13 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

OK, I get it. It is purely an input overload problem, not an amp or driver problem at the sub end. And, it affects only some subs, which may not be as robustly designed as others. That input overload would cause damage at the fairly low voltage and current levels involved on the input side of the sub, even with fairly high trims, points to a clear sub design issue. Even there, the problem seems to go away if the Audyssey user correctly sets the level at the sub to yield trims close to zero dB. Do we know which ones?

 

Hi Fitz - yep, that is about it IMO. The sub I destroyed by using a trim of +8dB (way back when I was just a green kid LOL) was a B&W ASW610. This is a well-respected small sub that costs about $750 here in the UK. It has a 200 watt Class D amp and a 10 inch driver. It is a sealed design. The sub has, AFAIK, no protection against being overdriven. Because of this experience, I now always recommend that people should aim for a 'centred' trim level in the AVR - I suggest +/- 3.5dB but it could just as easily be +/-5.0 dB (probably). This seems the sensible course of action to take, especially with newbies, because there is no downside to it at all and it is safe. High negative trims are also safe, but may cause Auto-on to not turn on. High positive trims are, IMO, not safe and should always be avoided.

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post #3854 of 4427
2/8/13 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Hi Fitz - yep, that is about it IMO. The sub I destroyed by using a trim of +8dB (way back when I was just a green kid LOL) was a B&W ASW610. This is a well-respected small sub that costs about $750 here in the UK. It has a 200 watt Class D amp and a 10 inch driver. It is a sealed design. The sub has, AFAIK, no protection against being overdriven. Because of this experience, I now always recommend that people should aim for a 'centred' trim level in the AVR - I suggest +/- 3.5dB but it could just as easily be +/-5.0 dB (probably). This seems the sensible course of action to take, especially with newbies, because there is no downside to it at all and it is safe. High negative trims are also safe, but may cause Auto-on to not turn on. High positive trims are, IMO, not safe and should always be avoided.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this is totally wrong.

After auto-calibration, it doesn't matter if the avr trim ends up being -11 or +11, (as long as it's withing the AVR's trim limits) the only way you are going to overdrive your subwoofer is if you turn up the gain on the amp AFTER the calibration is complete... or you are playing content that your subwoofer is too whimpy to handle.

A higher voltage output from the sub out of an AVR is good for reducing interference and turning on sub auto-on switches.

The only thing that can harm a sub is an amp turned up too high after calibration. What the AVR sub trim reads matters not a whit... unless you pump IT up after calibration!
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post #3855 of 4427
2/8/13 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Hi Fitz - yep, that is about it IMO. The sub I destroyed by using a trim of +8dB (way back when I was just a green kid LOL) was a B&W ASW610. This is a well-respected small sub that costs about $750 here in the UK. It has a 200 watt Class D amp and a 10 inch driver. It is a sealed design. The sub has, AFAIK, no protection against being overdriven. Because of this experience, I now always recommend that people should aim for a 'centred' trim level in the AVR - I suggest +/- 3.5dB but it could just as easily be +/-5.0 dB (probably). This seems the sensible course of action to take, especially with newbies, because there is no downside to it at all and it is safe. High negative trims are also safe, but may cause Auto-on to not turn on. High positive trims are, IMO, not safe and should always be avoided.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this is totally wrong.

After auto-calibration, it doesn't matter if the avr trim ends up being -11 or +11, (as long as it's withing the AVR's trim limits) the only way you are going to overdrive your subwoofer is if you turn up the gain on the amp AFTER the calibration is complete... or you are playing content that your subwoofer is too whimpy to handle.

A higher voltage output from the sub out of an AVR is good for reducing interference and turning on sub auto-on switches.

The only thing that can harm a sub is an amp turned up too high after calibration. What the AVR sub trim reads matters not a whit... unless you pump IT up after calibration!

 

Yes, you're misunderstanding me.

 

I am discussing clipping the input on the sub amp. 

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post #3856 of 4427
2/8/13 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, you're misunderstanding me.

I am discussing clipping the input on the sub amp. 

Clipping from the source component? Or on the sub's input stage? If the latter, and the calibration resulted in the sub being properly leveled with the other channels, would S_rangeBrew's tack be spot on?

Jeff
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post #3857 of 4427
2/8/13 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, you're misunderstanding me.

I am discussing clipping the input on the sub amp. 

Clipping from the source component? Or on the sub's input stage? If the latter, and the calibration resulted in the sub being properly leveled with the other channels, would S_rangeBrew's tack be spot on?

Jeff

 

Nope. If the sub amp input can take 1.12v before it clips and if a trim level of +11 delivers 1.2v then the sub's input is clipped. (I am using illustrative figures). This may cause damage or distortion or both.

 

If the sub requires an input of 0.82v to achieve 75dB for the calibration, then it will not clip during calibration. But at 100dB it may well clip. 

 

SBrew is talking about damaging the sub by overdriving its own internal amp. I am discussing clipping the input - they are two different discussions.

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post #3858 of 4427
2/8/13 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Nope. If the sub amp input can take 1.12v before it clips and if a trim level of +11 delivers 1.2v then the sub's input is clipped. (I am using illustrative figures). This may cause damage or distortion or both.

If the sub requires an input of 0.82v to achieve 75dB for the calibration, then it will not clip during calibration. But at 100dB it may well clip. 

SBrew is talking about damaging the sub by overdriving its own internal amp. I am discussing clipping the input - they are two different discussions.

I seem to be missing something I guess. In most instances, assuming it is properly sized for the room/system, a sub would need a +11 processor trim setting because it's input gain was set low. But coming after that input gain control, the sub's onboard amp shouldn't see a voltage that would cause it to clip. The high processor output is only needed because of, and negated by, the sub's own input gain being low.

What am I missing? smile.gif

Jeff
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post #3859 of 4427
2/8/13 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Nope. If the sub amp input can take 1.12v before it clips and if a trim level of +11 delivers 1.2v then the sub's input is clipped. (I am using illustrative figures). This may cause damage or distortion or both.

If the sub requires an input of 0.82v to achieve 75dB for the calibration, then it will not clip during calibration. But at 100dB it may well clip. 

SBrew is talking about damaging the sub by overdriving its own internal amp. I am discussing clipping the input - they are two different discussions.

I seem to be missing something I guess. In most instances, assuming it is properly sized for the room/system, a sub would need a +11 processor trim setting because it's input gain was set low. But coming after that input gain control, the sub's onboard amp shouldn't see a voltage that would cause it to clip. The high processor output is only needed because of, and negated by, the sub's own input gain being low.

What am I missing? smile.gif

Jeff

 

That is a good point. When I destroyed my sub by clipping its input, it was in the days before Audyssey did the level check for the sub prior to the cal running.

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post #3860 of 4427
2/8/13 at 1:16pm
Just got my 5508 back, so this will be a home theater weekend, including working with Pro and hopefully completing the curve editing sections of the guide.
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post #3861 of 4427
2/8/13 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Just got my 5508 back, so this will be a home theater weekend, including working with Pro and hopefully completing the curve editing sections of the guide.

 

Great news Jeff!  If it were me, after being so long without, I would be spending the weekend listening to music and watching movies - I'd leave the Curve Editor Tutorial till next week ;) 

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post #3862 of 4427
2/8/13 at 8:58pm

Is this a good use of the curve editor?  Take the following response curves:

 

 

The upper left measurement is L+R at the MLP.  I want to address the 5dB dip centered at 360Hz, which is 150Hz wide.  So, I took a number of measurements, left channel and right channel only, Audyssey off, starting at the MLP, and then for three additional positions around the MLP.  I examined each of these response curves and noticed that each of the right channel response curves is showing a dip around the same place (more or less).  The left channel response curves showed no such dip. So, my conclusion is that I need to apply a correction to the right channel only.

 

So, I created the following target curve, which is centered at 360Hz, and extends down to 290Hz, and up to 450Hz, with a 3dB boost.

 

 

I saved the edit as Right Channel.csv, and applied it to Channel 2.

 

Is all this correct?  If I load it and re-run the REW measurements, should I see an improvement in the 360Hz dip?

 

Edit:  It's interesting to note that Pro adds a small "bump" to the Cert where the correction has been applied:

 


Edited by AustinJerry - 2/8/13 at 9:04pm
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post #3863 of 4427
2/9/13 at 2:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Is this a good use of the curve editor?  Take the following response curves:

 

 

The upper left measurement is L+R at the MLP.  I want to address the 5dB dip centered at 360Hz, which is 150Hz wide.  So, I took a number of measurements, left channel and right channel only, Audyssey off, starting at the MLP, and then for three additional positions around the MLP.  I examined each of these response curves and noticed that each of the right channel response curves is showing a dip around the same place (more or less).  The left channel response curves showed no such dip. So, my conclusion is that I need to apply a correction to the right channel only.

 

So, I created the following target curve, which is centered at 360Hz, and extends down to 290Hz, and up to 450Hz, with a 3dB boost.

 

 

I saved the edit as Right Channel.csv, and applied it to Channel 2.

 

Is all this correct?  If I load it and re-run the REW measurements, should I see an improvement in the 360Hz dip?

 

Edit:  It's interesting to note that Pro adds a small "bump" to the Cert where the correction has been applied:

 

 

I had a couple of pesky little dips too when looking at my OM results. I followed the same procedure as you did. I then remeasured. The resulting OM graph was improved but not perfectly. I am not sure if I heard an audible difference or not. Conclusion: inconclusive ;)

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post #3864 of 4427
2/9/13 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Is this a good use of the curve editor?  Take the following response curves:

The upper left measurement is L+R at the MLP.  I want to address the 5dB dip centered at 360Hz, which is 150Hz wide.  So, I took a number of measurements, left channel and right channel only, Audyssey off, starting at the MLP, and then for three additional positions around the MLP.  I examined each of these response curves and noticed that each of the right channel response curves is showing a dip around the same place (more or less).  The left channel response curves showed no such dip. So, my conclusion is that I need to apply a correction to the right channel only.

So, I created the following target curve, which is centered at 360Hz, and extends down to 290Hz, and up to 450Hz, with a 3dB boost.

I saved the edit as Right Channel.csv, and applied it to Channel 2.

Is all this correct?  If I load it and re-run the REW measurements, should I see an improvement in the 360Hz dip?

Edit:  It's interesting to note that Pro adds a small "bump" to the Cert where the correction has been applied:



AJ, this is a great use of the Curve Editor. Did you have any difficulty in placing the grips? Remember the 1/3 oct min spacing. But if Pro accepted the edit, then you were within parameters.

The "bump" on the graph is calculated with Audyssey's secret calculations - can you hear a bump? Hear any changes at all?

Jeff
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post #3865 of 4427
2/9/13 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post


AJ, this is a great use of the Curve Editor. Did you have any difficulty in placing the grips? Remember the 1/3 oct min spacing. But if Pro accepted the edit, then you were within parameters.

The "bump" on the graph is calculated with Audyssey's secret calculations - can you hear a bump? Hear any changes at all?

Jeff

 

I was waiting for your blessings before proceeding.  Today, I'll conduct the following test:

 

1.  Set up my nifty new USB mic REW kit, and measure from the MLP to make sure the dip is still there and measurable.  (Those pesky dips sometimes come and go... wink.gif )

2.  Leave the mic untouched.

3.  Apply the edit using Pro and upload to the AVR.

4.  Re-run the REW measurement to see its impact on the dip.

 

I'll post the results here later today.  Thanks for your input.

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post #3866 of 4427
2/9/13 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I was waiting for your blessings before proceeding.  Today, I'll conduct the following test:

1.  Set up my nifty new USB mic REW kit, and measure from the MLP to make sure the dip is still there and measurable.  (Those pesky dips sometimes come and go... wink.gif  )
2.  Leave the mic untouched.
3.  Apply the edit using Pro and upload to the AVR.
4.  Re-run the REW measurement to see its impact on the dip.

I suggest you use your ears as well. Consult this chart for content that would seem to be noticeably affected by changes in that band, select some music with content of that kind and listen to it with and without the tweak. It is possible that, to train your ears, you might need to exaggerate the dip and the boost to hear exactly what is happening. That would allow you to make - and hear - smaller tweaks of the magnitude of the naturally occurring dip and the corresponding curve edit you make to lessen/remove it.

I maintain that some tweaks are so small that measurement changes are not VISIBLE (on graphs), but are audible with the right material/content. My, and my fellow local HT enthusiasts, always do any minor tweaks like this.

I tend to favor vocals for something like this, and for this one I'd try a full female voice (no Avril or Taylor Swift). Maybe Julia Fordham or Patricia Barber.

Jeff
Edited by pepar - 2/9/13 at 11:30am
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post #3867 of 4427
2/9/13 at 11:33am

Agree 100%.  I have that chart in my resources folder.  360Hz is in both the male and female vocal fundamental range.  I'll try Minni Ripperton, or better yet, Bjork....   wink.gif

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post #3868 of 4427
2/9/13 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Agree 100%.  I have that chart in my resources folder.  360Hz is in both the male and female vocal fundamental range.  I'll try Minni Ripperton, or better yet, Bjork....   wink.gif

The swan honking might work ...
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post #3869 of 4427
2/10/13 at 4:33am

FAQ UPDATE

 

Marantz 11.2 AVR model AV8801 added to XT32-equipped Pro-ready chart.

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post #3870 of 4427
2/10/13 at 12:20pm
OK, 5508 re-connected and trying to load a calibration. Except Pro gives me this error when I enter the key - the key I just regenerated ...



I tried several times, but no go. Thinking about the repair they just did, and the symptoms that lead to the repair ... loss of networking was the first symptom. As I researched it further, I learned that networking was on the same board as HDMI. So now I am betting that along with the new HDMI board, I have a new MAC address. IIRC, licenses are associated with MAC addresses. So now I have a bit more research to do on the Pro Installer website to verify that, and then it's an email off to Luke ...

Anybody else here have their HDMI board replaced and then not be able to connect with Pro?

Fortunately, the calibration I loaded before taking it to the repair center seems to be intact. So I will be able to watch a movie this evening.

Jeff
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1)