The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 130

Yes, Luke will need to wipe out your current license and set up a new blank one...

 

That is indeed a bummer, Jeff.  The Installer web site lists the MAC address associated with your license, and the 5508 network menu should show the unit's current MAC address.  Luke to the rescue...

Yes, it all makes sense now. I just emailed Chris and Luke. I don't expect same day Sunday service, but they have always been über-responsive in the past. I can't be the first to pass this way ...

... I think I'll go make a margarita.

Jeff

Got it from my router's attached devices list and included it in my email to the boys.

 

Good catch, Jeff. Bit of a bummer, but I am sure Audyssey will have a rapid and effective way for you to continue...

The pioneers caught a lot ... of arrows.

 

Oh yes. The early worm gets caught by the bird...

I have completed most of the work on the Pro FAQ section on curve editing and would like to get some others' inputs before it goes into the document. Here is a link to what I have so far. Comments, questions and criticisms are welcome.


Jeff

 

Looks great Jeff. I have made a couple of small comments to you via email.

The document started in the middle somewhere for for me, c)2?

Is this right?

 

Yes - it's meant as a 'drop in' to the FAQ once it is finalised.

Yes, I was charged with expanding on the curve editing, crossover selections, saving work (measurements and edited curves) and then loading saved work.. I rearranged some things and re-grouped some things. Subject-wise, I did this within c3, c4 and c5. IOW, it will drop in and replace existing c3, c4 and c5.

Jeff

Curses, beaten by The Barnes.

Hey, i'm probably one of the few of us at work today on this holiday, so forgive my mental sluggishness!

Jeff,
As a relative newbie to Audyssey Pro your new instructions in the FAQ are most welcome. Great work.
Perhaps Audyssey should hire kbarnes and you to make a usable manual for the Pro Kit. Lord knows, theirs is outdated and deparatly lacking.
Because of your work I was able to separate my one edit (that I was applying to all my speakers) into 2 edits applied to the appropriate speakers. I had no idea what the 1/2/3/4/7/12 buttons were for. If there was something in the instructions I either didn't understand it or missed it.
It now sounds much better. And that was just with a quick edit I did after reading your new work. You have me rethink selling my 80.3 and going back to an Anthem pre/pro, and saved me $$$.

,
Tom

 

Wow!  Great success story there!

 

I agree - Pro documentation is terrible. Even the in-program instructions are not always accurate either.

Wha?? Something must be wrong if you are missing channels 8, 9, 10 and 11!!

Uh-Oh.
I'm headed to the store right now to by 4 more speakers and a 4 channel amp. I'm not sure where I'll put it all, but i certainly don't want to be shortchanged.

But really, thanks for the help. Your update was clear and concise. Great job.

Tom

Glad to have helped!

I have a couple questions.
I'm coming from using Anthem/ARC, so I may be comparing apples to oranges.

In ARC I was able to set the 'MAX EQ' to whatever freq I wanted. ARC's default setting was to 5K, and it would not apply any room correction above that freq (or whatever freq you changed it to up to 20K). Personally, I liked it not doing any correction above 5K. Is there any way to set Audyssey to not correct above a set freq, or does it always correct up to 20K ??
It appears on the Audyssey graphs that it is appying correction all the way up to 20K. I believe that was one reason it was sounding 'bright'. I was able to do an edit and bring it back down close to the un-corrected line on the graph, and it sounds very good, but if I was able to correct only up to 5-7K it would eliminate the need to edit the curves.

Second question -- is there any way to get a more accurate graph than the one that you can open on the Audyssey program. Not to complain, but its pretty cheap looking. You can't really see any of the numbers, or how many db you have corrected. Thats for the graph that you can open on the page where you upload the Audyssey to your pre/pro/receiver, not on the edit page.

Third-- Is there a way to change the subwoofer x-over ?? In my Integra menu after loading Audyssey, I can change the lfe x-over, but I don't want to do that.
Or does Audyssey automatically set the sub x-over to work with the x-overs chosen for your other speakers ??

Thanks,
Tom

Tom, DK if any of the usual suspects are here, but I'll take a stab at this:

a) AFAIK Audyssey corrects the entire range of frequencies with its filters. There's no way to specifically turn off a particular range of frequencies. There's speaker crossover points, where Audyssey doesn't correct below that point (e.g. 80 Hz, representing that speaker's -3db point), but you can't selectively turn off frequencies above the crossover. The Curve Editor is your best bet to tame or adjust (+/- 3 db range) your frequency response, as you'e done. I've done something similar with the Target Curve Editor on my Mythos ST fronts, actually boosting a little at about 8kHz to add some "air"
b) Not directly from Audyssey. You'll need external measurement capabilities to determine more accurate post-Audyssey curve results than the approximately 1/6th smoothing and graph resolution you get from Pro on its frequency response curves. OmniMic and REW are the most commonly software. However, you'll need a mic as well that's compatible with the specific software.
c) If you're using Pro, the best practice approach is to set the crossovers within Pro, so that the filters relating to EQing at the crossover point are optimized. Your best bet is to save your measurements, so that you can reload them in Pro if you want to make crossover changes to a specific calibration/configuration, and avoid the need for a fresh calibration when you want to try a crossover change. Note that this is different than with standard Audyssey. For more details, see AVS user kbarnes701's Audyssey Pro Installer Kit FAQ (link is in Post #1 of this thread on the first page).

Currently, there's an active thread of heavily Audyssey users exploring measurement issues and use of room treatments before using Audyssey or other EQ. Check out http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs. OmniMic is easier to use out of the box than REW if you want to measure FR quickly, but REW has recently become the most common standard among the HT enthusiasts that frequent this thread, and are delving deeper into more advanced measurements such as waterfalls, ETC plots, and the like. AVS user AustinJerry has put together a detailed guide (in progress) that would aid you in pursuing this direction; it's associated with his signature in his posts.

Hope that helps.
Edited by sdrucker - 2/22/13 at 10:35am

Audyssey correction is always full range. I believe that the main reason ARC stops at 5k by default is their processors are lacking in DSP computing horsepower. So, it wants to conserve resources so as not to take away from corrections in the bass, which is where the biggest corections normally are. However, my friends with D2Vs all prefer increasing that limit as high as possible. They think it sounds best that way.

Personally, I have never found Audyssey too bright in the highs in a number of rooms, but, of course, YMMV. I assume you are observing all the best practices in the Audyssey Setup Guide, especially eliminating extraneous noises, like your heater. Of course, it all depends on what we mean by the "highs". And, it is a bit surprising that you hear that given the rolloff in the Audyssey curve. In my case, I found it to tame excessive HF energy. I principally use classical music in live concerts as my reference, and I am quite satisfied with the results via Audyssey without any target curve edits. Have you experimented with target curve#2 vs. #1? Also, are you using Audyssey's Midrange Comensation dip? I prefer to turn it off, myself, but the consensus seems to be to prefer it on by most here.

The graphs are what they are, though many here complain about inadequate frequency resolution in them, particularly at lower frequencies, in addition to not graphing dual subs individually. There is no hint of a fix by Audyssey. The vertical grid is at 5dB increments. To get something with more resolution, you would have to use an independent measurement tool, subject to differences in mike placement, time windowing, frequency smoothing, spatial averaging, etc. vs. the Audyssey calibration. I have not found the need for one myself, but many here do.

Yes, you can override Audyssey's calculated sub xovers. The best way is to do it in Pro immediately after it computes them, then calculate the filters. But, many just override them in the prepro after Audyssey filters are saved. Xover frequencies should only be increased from what Audyssey has determined, never decreased below that. Audyssey determines the xover for each channel independently based on where the measured channel response drops off. There is a bug with dual subs mentioned in the Pro FAQ and discussed here in this thread.

Are you sure that Dynamic EQ is off? That would have a tendency to boost highs and lows. Possibly that is too aggressive and is contributing to what you hear. I never use it myself, though I listen primarily to music which has no standardized levels on the disk, unlike movies which do.

It is definitely there not because of lack of horsepower, with FIR filters you cannot conserve resources on correcting high frequencies and apply them to lower frequencies. It is if I understand it correctly and the talk is about FIR in ARC.

 

Those graphs are only 'predictions' remember - Audyssey doesn't measure anything after it has done the calibration, so the graphs are just predictions based on the filters it has created. If you want to see what Audyssey has actually done to your in-room response you need a mic and something like REW.

 

Subwoofer crossover?  What's that? Do you mean the LPF of LFE?  That should always be 120Hz.

Or FUR in the ARCtic.

Estonia is cold, Jeff, but not THAT cold ;)

Sure, we even have a summer here! .... If lucky and not at work those three days in a year

 

:)  I know that feeling. Summer falls on Tuesday in England this year...

Thanks for the suggestions.
Looks I'll be tweaking this weekend.

Tom

ARC uses IIR filters rather than FIR. I will leave it to someone with greater engineering knowledge than me to decide which is better. I am sure that technical arguments could be made for each, though from my limited knowledge perspective, I tend to believe that FIR is better. But, there are numerous other differences in the ARC vs. Audyssey implementations.

The notion that ARC's DSP resources are more limited came from the D2V thread. Kal's impression of it was the same as mine.

Sure, nothing says "summer" like the Baltic Sea.