The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 14

You talkin to me?"

The comparison of one AVR or pre/pro to another is a complex task and subject to acoustic memory, variable mic placement for setup and other potential confounders. Such comparisons are also subject to unconscious and conscious bias, as none of these were BAB tests and most if not all were prior Onkyo owners. That being said, I accept the possibility that there is something about the Onkyo DSP that several well-respected and experienced members prefer. I have no problem with that.

The decision as to what to buy is of course a personal one and each person's situation is different. Despite having moved steadily up the Denon chain to a AVR4310, I did not immediately jump to the 4311, despite drooling in anticipation of XT32, which I considered a significant advance in DSP RC and of particular value to me because my room is untreated. I was also determined to get a Pro-capable unit. (Perfunctory on-topic reference) The competition to Denon I considered was the Onk SC5508 and Integra 80.2. There seemed little to no rationale to justify the higher cost of the Int unit I strongly considered the 5508 which is IMO a good deal at the usual US street of $1.5K or so, basically the same cost as the 4311. Keith's situation with the strret cost in his country is different. Now I sought out and was given some of the same Onkyo over Denon "preference" SQ opinion as has been posted here, which I respect but tempered with several other considrations, in addition to those I mentioned above.

First was the Denon's better reliability, as exemplified in the Onk/Integra Pro software debacle. This was no doubt part of the reason the A100 model was specifically recommended to me over Onk/Int by some respected experts, including one at Audyssey, for it's " more mature implementation".

Another big reason favoring the Denon AVR was specific to me and would not apply to Keith. As I have an Emotiva XPA5, a dedicated pre/pro separate would add the expense of acquiring at least 2 additional ext amp channels so I could continue to enjoy 7.2 DSX wides. (Currently I simply use 2 amps in the AVR for the DSXWides) So when I found a deal on an A100 for $1.5K, I made the executive decision to spend that amp$ instead on a Pro kit and license It's a matter of diminishing returns on dollars spent as one approaches the pinnacle of HT SQ and I consider it $ very well spent.

Hugo, hello. Not to go further OT (oops yes I will) but the few who have commented on the threads take a stance that there should/would be no detectable SQ difference between the Denon AVR4311 and the more expensive limited Anniversary Edition AVR A100. In some ways this is probably similar to the Onk SC5508 and Integra 80.2 comparison. I know of no head-to-head tests.There are almost identical parts, other than an upgraded capacitor, in the A100. But IMO a plus is that each circuit in every A100 unit is individually tested to ensure it meets the highest Denon spec. I would certainly not have spent $500more for that, but was glad to have the reassurance of a top-performing unit at no added cost. And it sounds damn good to me.

More on topic to Pro, I was delighted to find that Denons allow you to save and easily reload entire, different Pro calibrations through the Denon network "Save" and "Load" function. Each reload is a click of a virtual button and takes under 10 min. Very handy in comparing Pro curves, different crossovers, w/ or w/o midrange correction, manual curve edits, etc. I'm surprised that option is not found in their cousin Onk/Integra models.

Is there not a "Godzilla/Onkyo takes on all Denon/Mothra" thread somewhere?

No apology needed, Keith. This thread includes a rare collection of guys with considerable hi-end HT gear experience exactly relevant to a very interesting question you have for Pro equipped units (perfunctory on-topic reference). So what if it's a little OT?

As to the 4311/A100, it is unclear if use in the preamp mode improves SQ. IIRC, apparently the amps are still on, but are receiving no signal. I will try it one of these days, but apparently it entails a full autosetup rerun and then I'll have to reload another cal file afterwards when I reengage the 2 internal amps I use. We are again talking small differences in SQ and auditory memory and not BAB....but I'm thinking of getting an Emo UPA2 just for kicks.

I get no "transformer bump" with the A100.

So what if the 4311 is an amazing deal on either side of the big pond? As you don't want/need 11 channels and have all the amps you need, and the Onk FW Pro problem has been fixed, and Denons are inscrutable to the uninitiated, I say-
find your best deal on a 5508! I doubt you'll have one moment of buyer's remorse, and that's worth a lot.

A very informative set of posts, Hugo, thnx. The part quoted above is pretty much what I (with the A100) and Jeff/pepar (with the 5508) have reported. Pro is the finishing touch, but more than just the finishing touch.

Yes, I agree and view this network Save functionality issue as a value feature which belongs in the AVR or pre-pro. I think it's really intended if you have to do a deep reset as it saves all preference settings, input names, etc.

I imagine Audyssey could do something similar just for the Audyssey filters if they wanted. But as has been mentioned, their focus is elsewhere and there's no $ to be made in improving the Pro kit with much of what's on our wish-list. Programming costs $ and time, especially to get it right.

Yes, hence my Godzilla quip. I meant cousins in the sense that they both carry Audyssey genes.