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The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 136

post #4051 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

IIRC Jeff, he used the email address you gave him eek.gif
  I’d still try that one I have though - maybe that will actually go direct to someone's inbox.... 

wink.gif

Until he posts some more details, we don't know. But I go the impression that complain mode was turned on.
post #4052 of 5281
My issue has been to get a replacement license for my unit - which has a new MAC address due to the HDMI board replacement. And yes I did go to the audyssey website (and have a ticket to track).
post #4053 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio1246 View Post

My issue has been to get a replacement license for my unit - which has a new MAC address due to the HDMI board replacement. And yes I did go to the audyssey website (and have a ticket to track).

I'm only speaking for what I would do in this situation, but for the PITA element of time and aggrevation, I'd personally pay the $150 license fee just to get a working key for your AVR, and then push Audyssey for a credit on the back end, citing your trouble ticket #. It's not fair, but unfortunately it's a short-term practical solution.

Look on the bright side: it's not much more expensive than buying a MiniDSP! And easier to use....
post #4054 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post


I'm only speaking for what I would do in this situation, but for the PITA element of time and aggrevation, I'd personally pay the $150 license fee just to get a working key for your AVR, and then push Audyssey for a credit on the back end, citing your trouble ticket #. It's not fair, but unfortunately it's a short-term practical solution.

Look on the bright side: it's not much more expensive than buying a MiniDSP! And easier to use....

 

That is what I did when I was forced to get a warranty replacement for my Denon 4520 after already purchasing the Pro license.  Being impatient, I simply bought a new license and then asked for a refund.  The refund took several weeks to process, but in the meantime, I was able to run a Pro calibration on the replacement AVR.

post #4055 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

That is what I did when I was forced to get a warranty replacement for my Denon 4520 after already purchasing the Pro license.  Being impatient, I simply bought a new license and then asked for a refund.  The refund took several weeks to process, but in the meantime, I was able to run a Pro calibration on the replacement AVR.

Who knows: the refund processing might take less time than getting the MAC address of the AVR changed. It's a practical decision IMO, and no worse than waiting to get a refund for a % off coupon from a retailer.
post #4056 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio1246 View Post

My issue has been to get a replacement license for my unit - which has a new MAC address due to the HDMI board replacement. And yes I did go to the audyssey website (and have a ticket to track).

The Pro Installer part of the website? Have you exchanged any emails with Luke at techsupport@audyssey.com?
post #4057 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The Pro Installer part of the website? Have you exchanged any emails with Luke at techsupport@audyssey.com?

I did it in the past (couple years ago - when I got my pro kit).
post #4058 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The Pro Installer part of the website? Have you exchanged any emails with Luke at techsupport@audyssey.com?

I'm dealing with someone named Javier Vanegas @ tech support.
post #4059 of 5281
btw I am willing to wait it out rather than spending the $150 for a new license. I'm sure they will get back to me soon smile.gif
post #4060 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio1246 View Post

I did it in the past (couple years ago - when I got my pro kit).

I was referring to this problem you are having now - are you handling it through the Pro installer program?

Jeff
post #4061 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I was referring to this problem you are having now - are you handling it through the Pro installer program?

Jeff

Yes I am
post #4062 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio1246 View Post

Yes I am

Then I am annoyed at the delay in their resolving your issue.

Jeff
post #4063 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddingle View Post



We are having an ongoing problem similar to yours. On a DTR 80.3 we get through the first microphone position to all 7 speakers without issue,but on the second pass no sound from any speaker occurs even though the software keeps moving forward to the next speaker until finally it fails. Standard Audyssey works fine for all 8 positions. One of our techs has DTM 80.3 with similar issues. We have been working with Integra as the problem would seem to be on their end. Let's keep in touch on any progress made towards a resolution.
Thanks

After a week and a half of emails, Audyssey told me that my issue is a Integra problem. I called Integra and they are working on it and I should get a call This Thurs or Fri to resolve. I hope so!
post #4064 of 5281
Wow, thanks for sharing that!

Jeff
post #4065 of 5281
Does anyone know where to pick up the Audyssey Pro Kit? Perfect Home Theater is out of stock at the moment and I would like to get one pretty soon. Somewhere near NC would be nice.

Thanks
post #4066 of 5281
I drop ship them. send me an email at scott@techht.com. I think I have one uncommitted in stock.
post #4067 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post


I'm only speaking for what I would do in this situation, but for the PITA element of time and aggrevation, I'd personally pay the $150 license fee just to get a working key for your AVR, and then push Audyssey for a credit on the back end, citing your trouble ticket #. It's not fair, but unfortunately it's a short-term practical solution.

Look on the bright side: it's not much more expensive than buying a MiniDSP! And easier to use....

 

That is what I did when I was forced to get a warranty replacement for my Denon 4520 after already purchasing the Pro license.  Being impatient, I simply bought a new license and then asked for a refund.  The refund took several weeks to process, but in the meantime, I was able to run a Pro calibration on the replacement AVR.

 

If I bought a new processor, I'd need a new licence??  That hardly seems fair. I can see why it is fair in a professional installer context - each customer (ie each AVR) is a new licence. But if I buy a new AVR, I have almost certainly sold my old one (I don't need more than one 3 grand processor!) so it ought to be possible to transfer the licence to my new unit. I am reading between your lines and assuming that you had to buy a new licence simply because you bought the 4520. Is that assumption correct?

post #4068 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

I drop ship them. send me an email at scott@techht.com. I think I have one uncommitted in stock.

Email sent.

Thanks,
Ted
post #4069 of 5281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

If I bought a new processor, I'd need a new licence??
??? Keith, I would've bet dollars to doughnuts that you knew that the license follows the unit, as you yourself compiled the Pro FAQ:

"Note that if you upgrade your AVR or AVP, you cannot transfer the Pro licence to the new system - it is married to the AVR's Mac or serial number, so a new unit requires a new licence.
However, if you sell your AVR or AVP, then you can transfer the licence to the new owner by contacting Audyssey support and submitting a request to transfer the licence."


So yes, when you finally upgrade your processor count on an extra $150 to license it. Unless you buy a used unit that happens to already be licensed, a rare case indeed.

The exception Audyssey makes is when you have a problem in the unit that requires replacing it with a new unit of the same model, you can ask for a new license for free.
post #4070 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

If I bought a new processor, I'd need a new licence??  That hardly seems fair. I can see why it is fair in a professional installer context - each customer (ie each AVR) is a new licence. But if I buy a new AVR, I have almost certainly sold my old one (I don't need more than one 3 grand processor!) so it ought to be possible to transfer the licence to my new unit. I am reading between your lines and assuming that you had to buy a new licence simply because you bought the 4520. Is that assumption correct?

 

Let me clarify.  I purchased a 4520, and immediately purchased a Pro license for it.  I found out the unit was defective, returned it, and received a replacement.  Since the new one had a different MAC address, I had two choices: wait for Audyssey to issue a new license, or purchase on in the interim, and work on getting a credit.  The latter option allowed me to proceed immediately with getting my new AVR calibrated.  

 

We all know licenses are not transferable.  And in my case, I retained the 4311 and its license for use in my bedroom system.

post #4071 of 5281
Hmmm Audyssey is really testing my patience frown.gif
post #4072 of 5281
Since the advent of XT32 the Pro kit is of lesser importance to Audyssey.
post #4073 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

Since the advent of XT32 the Pro kit is of lesser importance to Audyssey.

Unfortunately sad.... but seems to be true
post #4074 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

If I bought a new processor, I'd need a new licence??  That hardly seems fair. I can see why it is fair in a professional installer context - each customer (ie each AVR) is a new licence. But if I buy a new AVR, I have almost certainly sold my old one (I don't need more than one 3 grand processor!) so it ought to be possible to transfer the licence to my new unit. I am reading between your lines and assuming that you had to buy a new licence simply because you bought the 4520. Is that assumption correct?

 

Let me clarify.  I purchased a 4520, and immediately purchased a Pro license for it.  I found out the unit was defective, returned it, and received a replacement.  Since the new one had a different MAC address, I had two choices: wait for Audyssey to issue a new license, or purchase on in the interim, and work on getting a credit.  The latter option allowed me to proceed immediately with getting my new AVR calibrated.  

 

We all know licenses are not transferable.  And in my case, I retained the 4311 and its license for use in my bedroom system.

Thanks Jerry. I do find it an irritation that if I buy a new AVP I would also have to buy a new $150 licence. I am still a single user and feel they should take that into account.  Even the hardest-nosed software companies usually allow one to install their product on a new machine. It's not as if the kit can be used to calibrate a unit that I have sold. I guess they wouldn't take my word for it that I had sold it. "Customer as liar."  A lot of outfits see their customers that way. A compromise would be a multi-user licence of some sort where we could pay, say $200 or $225 for a licence that allows us to calibrate two machines.

 

Hmmm - they would take my word for it wouldn't they - once I gave them the new MAC number of the new unit, the software would no longer work with the old unit because they would discontinue it at their end. Ho hum... not all that important in the scheme of things I guess.

post #4075 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

If I bought a new processor, I'd need a new licence??
??? Keith, I would've bet dollars to doughnuts that you knew that the license follows the unit, as you yourself compiled the Pro FAQ:

"Note that if you upgrade your AVR or AVP, you cannot transfer the Pro licence to the new system - it is married to the AVR's Mac or serial number, so a new unit requires a new licence.
However, if you sell your AVR or AVP, then you can transfer the licence to the new owner by contacting Audyssey support and submitting a request to transfer the licence."


So yes, when you finally upgrade your processor count on an extra $150 to license it. Unless you buy a used unit that happens to already be licensed, a rare case indeed.

The exception Audyssey makes is when you have a problem in the unit that requires replacing it with a new unit of the same model, you can ask for a new license for free.

 

Yes, I did know SoM. What I am saying is that it makes me unhappy. If I told them I had bought a new unit and gave them the new MAC number, then nobody could use the software to calibrate the old unit any more. Audyssey wouldn't be subject to being ripped-off in any way.

 

TBH, I am not sure I would buy Pro again. I think that a combination of XT32, REW and some independent 'adjustment' via PEQ would probably give me as good a result. XT32 is so good that it gets us very, very close... The main issues are usually in the bass region and once one has multiple subs, a treated room and some knowledge, REW and a little PEQ can probably solve all the other issues nicely.

post #4076 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

Since the advent of XT32 the Pro kit is of lesser importance to Audyssey.

 

And possibly of less importance to us too - see my comments to SoM above.

post #4077 of 5281
Bonjour Keith,

Personally between an Onkyo 5508 sold for a Denon 4311, sold for a 4520 - which I kept less than 3 months - before switching for a Marantz 8801, all Pro calibrated... yes I confess, I found that paying 1.7$/day for Pro use on the 4520 was really too much... maybe as this equals to the cost of 2 Lagavulin 16yo... smile.gif

Now even though I do agree that XT32 by itself is a good tool, the end result one can get with Pro is nothing less than exceptional, but that's just in my little 11.2 context.

Amitiés,

Hugo
post #4078 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

And possibly of less importance to us too - see my comments to SoM above.

Time to call the Heresy squad.....the peasants are revolting eek.gif. And not every Pro user has a treated room LOL, even if we have multiple subs and 'some knowledge'...tongue.gif

More seriously, I disagree with you as of where things stand today. With the Pro kit, you get a better, individually calibrated mic than with consumer Audyssey, which may be more sensitive in the corrections Audyssey applies.

You also get the ability to take more than 8 measurements (IMO more useful if you have multiple LP than a single one, or a complicated room), suggestions of multiple crossover points, and being able to save/load different calibration files -- useful if you don't have a Denon system.

Then there's the three mid-range compensation levels and the Pro Curve Editor to perform limited target curve tweaks. Yes, you can address that with REW and a form of post-cal PEQ, but keep in mind that 'user-friendly' REW with HDMI output to the AVR and USB mics is a new development. And while I think PEQ is a promising add-on to perfect Audyssey, there's still only a handful of us that are going (or thinking of going) there. Plus for more than sub PEQ, e.g. to produce corrections to speakers, you're looking at $300 for two ugly Behringer Feedback units or for a single box and PEQ of all 5.1 channels, $500 minimum (miniDSP 10x10, which is not as user friendly as Pro to set up for non-DIYers) and possibly an add'l amp to use the line-level output from that device.

PEQ is also user-beware: a non-careful application of gain to subs risks overdriving them. The Pro Curve Editor's +/- 3 db is either a limitation or protection against sub or speaker damage, from that POV.

Finally....is the algorithm in Pro identical to the ones in consumer Audyssey otherwise? If it's not, that may be a selling point in the RC game.

So as of today....I'm not sold that acquiring a Pro kit is redundant.

Could Audyssey Pro be better? Obviously...as the multiple sub distance/trim bug and the loss of being able to add measurements to a previously saved cal file reflect. And I think that the algorithm could better harness modern CPU capabilities and actually optimize filters at the mains/sub crossover, at better than a predicted 1/6 smoothing. It's a 2007 solution compared to what you, Keith, can do manually and with 'more time than money', at least wrt subs.

I will say this, too: consider that Pro wasn't designed for home audio enthusiasts: it was designed for customer installers as (IMO) a convenience tool to conduct more efficient measuring and more timely calibration that a trained acoustician would do with multiple tools, iterative room treatments, room traps, etc. On those terms, it's an imperfect tool, maybe an incomplete one, but for folks like us, we're better for having bought and used it.

OTOH...there really isn't much happening with Pro recently, other than 'adding support' for new AVRs. So some disgruntlement for a mature product that's likely at the end of it's R&D cycle for business reasons is natural.
Edited by sdrucker - 3/21/13 at 10:20am
post #4079 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Bonjour Keith,

Personally between an Onkyo 5508 sold for a Denon 4311, sold for a 4520 - which I kept less than 3 months - before switching for a Marantz 8801, all Pro calibrated... yes I confess, I found that paying 1.7$/day for Pro use on the 4520 was really too much... maybe as this equals to the cost of 2 Lagavulin 16yo... smile.gif

Now even though I do agree that XT32 by itself is a good tool, the end result one can get with Pro is nothing less than exceptional, but that's just in my little 11.2 context.

Amitiés,

Hugo

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

And possibly of less importance to us too - see my comments to SoM above.

Time to call the Heresy squad.....the peasants are revolting eek.gif

More seriously, I disagree with you as of where things stand today. With the Pro kit, you get a better, individually calibrated mic than with consumer Audyssey, which may be more sensitive in the corrections Audyssey applies.

You also get the ability to take more than 8 measurements (IMO more useful if you have multiple LP than a single one, or a complicated room), suggestions of multiple crossover points, and being able to save/load different calibration files -- useful if you don't have a Denon system.

Then there's the three mid-range compensation levels and the Pro Curve Editor to perform limited target curve tweaks. Yes, you can address that with REW and a form of post-cal PEQ, but keep in mind that 'user-friendly' REW with HDMI output to the AVR and USB mics are new developments. And while I think PEQ is a promising add-on to perfect Audyssey, there's still only a handful of us that are going (or thinking of going) there. Plus for more than sub PEQ, e.g. to produce corrections to speakers, you're looking at $500 minimum (miniDSP 10x10, which is not as user friendly as Pro to set up for non-DIYers) and possibly an add'l amp to use the line-level output from that device).

Finally....is the algorithm in Pro identical to the ones in consumer Audyssey otherwise? If it's not, that may be a selling point in the RC game.

So as of today....I'm not sold that acquiring a Pro kit is redundant.

Could Audyssey Pro be better? Obviously...as the multiple sub distance/trim bug and the loss of being able to add measurements to a previously saved cal file reflect. And I think that the algorithm could better harness modern CPU capabilities and actually optimize filters at the mains/sub crossover, at better than a predicted 1/6 smoothing. It's a 2007 solution compared to what you, Keith, can do manually and with 'more time than money', at least wrt subs.

I will say this, too: consider that Pro wasn't designed for home audio enthusiasts: it was designed for customer installers as (IMO) a convenience tool to conduct more efficient measuring and more timely calibration that a trained acoustician would do with multiple tools, iterative room treatments, room traps, etc. On those terms, it's an imperfect tool, maybe an incomplete one, but for folks like us, we're better for having bought and used it.

 

I am not saying that XT32 is the equal of or the same as Pro. Audyssey, in general, is a terrific tool. It was originally designed to enable the guy in the street, with an untreated room and no interest at all in acoustics, to get a pretty good sound from his new AVR, automatically. No real knowledge or skill needed - follow a few basic instructions and everyone can get a decent setup, especially with XT32.

 

But people have been getting very good sounds for many years, without XT32 or Pro. Pro studios are obviously one example. They show that with some effort, dedication, knowledge and room treatments, plus some PEQ, it is possible to get a very, very good sound. These people are not, of course, run of the mill users. But then, neither are quite a lot of the readers of this thread. We have studied the issues, adopted multiple subs to smooth out our bass, room treatments to help us with modes and reflections, REW to measure and enable us to know what is happening in the room and what needs attention, and PEQ to deal with the pesky problems that all of the former cannot. 

 

Indeed, when one has invested the time to learn how to use REW, one can see many of the inadequacies of the automated system. We can see that Pro's 'predicted' graphs are far, far from an accurate representation of the end result in our rooms. We can also see there is much room for improvement and we use REW and the other tools in our toolbox to that end. 

 

To some of your detailed points Stuart: yes Pro allows for up to 32 measurements. But who needs that many? Maybe the professional installer who is setting up a multi-tier seating arrangement in a big room. They can continue to use Pro - many of them of course don't and rely on other methods. But for hobbyists, how many use use 32 positions?  Or 20? Or even 15? In my room I usually use 9. One more than XT32 allows. Yes, it is very useful to be able to save and reload measurements - a definite plus. If you have a Denon, you don't need it though and you can do the same with XT32. The suggestions for multiple crossovers is interesting but I am not sure how useful it is. I always have to do a lot of additional work to optimise my crossovers after Pro has finished, so Pro isn’t exactly fantastic in that area. It can’t be can it - it doesn’t measure the subs and speakers together, which is the only way to see what is really happening at the XO. 

 

The Curve Editor is Audyssey telling us that Pro does not do a perfect job and may need after-calibration tweaking. But as a tool for the latter it is severely limited with its ,ax 3dB boost or cut and its complete lack of bandwidth adjustment. I am not really sure how much real-world use it is. But I know it is a fraction of the use of a cheap PEQ like the Behringer 1124P. When you say there is "only a handful" of people using PEQ that isn't actually the case. If you search the net you will find whole forums full to bursting of people who have eschewed the automated Audyssey route in favour of PEQ and total control over their systems.  PEQ should not really be needed for any speakers other than subs as their issues can usually be corrected by room treatments, speaker placement and good choice of speakers in the first place. To EQ subs all you need is a $100 Behringer and a REW setup, which latter many Pro users already have it seems. I agree that independent PEQ is not as user-friendly as Audyssey - but nothing can be as user-friendly as an automated system!

 

Does Pro use the same algorithms as XT32?  No idea. But XT32 does a terrific job, I do know that. Sure, the mic is less accurate, but it is accurate enough it seems. Expensive, calibrated mics only really come into their own for the higher frequencies - for bass, which is where EQ is really needed, a decent mic is apparently good enough. 

 

Now having said all that, I am not trying to make out that Pro is useless. Far from it. But it is not cheap - you mention $500 for a sophisticated DSP, but Pro costs far more than that. And an additional $150 if you want to buy a new AVR or AVP. All I am saying is that once one gets to a certain level of understanding, Pro becomes less useful because there are other tools that can do what it does for less money and possibly also give a superior result. Personally, I love what XT32 does and cannot imagine buying a unit that didn’t have it, unless something demonstrably better comes along. As for Pro, I am less convinced. The fact that I know it requires considerable after-calibration tweaking, according to every measurement graph I have ever seen, seems to demonstrate that it can go so far but no further.

 

So to summarise: my personal take is: XT32, brilliant, essential even. Pro, useful but what it does can be done with other tools, possibly better. The downside to the latter is a steep learning curve which requires some time and effort to master.

 

And I still think it's unnecessary for Audyssey to charge an additional licence fee for the hobbyist user who wants to EQ one unit only :)

 

PS. Bonjour à toi aussi, Hugo. C'est bon de t'entendre, comme toujours!

post #4080 of 5281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

Yes, I did know SoM. What I am saying is that it makes me unhappy. If I told them I had bought a new unit and gave them the new MAC number, then nobody could use the software to calibrate the old unit any more. Audyssey wouldn't be subject to being ripped-off in anyway

.  

Not so.  Anyone who bought your old unit could use that license.................if they knew about it.

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