Sorry, I don't see the point you are making.
I find it really, really hard to believe that my laptop is so limited in performance capability that it cannot process and store delays and levels for the second sub. In fact, Jeff, I don't find it hard to believe - I just don't believe it. If the problem was something to do with the AVR storing the numbers, I could just about believe that. Again it's hard to believe because the AVR does no processing with P`ro - it just stores the result. Even if the latter is true, there is no good reason I can see why the laptop cannot compute the data for the second sub, allowing us to enter it manually if the AVR really was so poor that it couldn't manage it itself.
So if that is what they told you, IMO it makes it even worse because I see no way it can be true. If I can load the delays and levels manually, then that is proof that the AVR can store them. And as I say, the AVR doesn't need to crunch the data. All the evidence points to one inescapable conclusion for me: they can't be bothered.
I don't follow, Jeff. All the crunching for Pro is done on the laptop. I refuse to believe that a modern laptop cannot crunch for 2 subs. Once crunched, the data is simply transferred to the AVR. I know the AVR can hold the data for two subs, delay and level, because mine does. So where's the problem come in? The reality is that the data for the second sub is not even on the laptop. That is why it cannot be transferred to the AVR. It isn't there. So whose fault is that? Audyssey's? It's a BUG. One they acknowledge but won’t fix.
Does XT32 calibrate the delays and distances for 2 subs correctly? I can't recall as it so long since I have used consumer MultEq. Jerry?
Pioneer sell a fraction of the number of AVRs sold by Onkyo (world's biggest AVR manufacturer) and Denon (No 2 I believe). That will, in itself, mean that MCACC is 'fringe' I bet.
I've said before, I doubt if I would buy Pro again - it just doesn’t represent $750 of value IMO. REW and a cheap PEQ are way better value I reckon. There's nothing Pro can do that REW and a Behringer FBD can't do - for a total outlay of $150 (if you buy the FBD secondhand as I did). XT32 is so good that Pro doesn't add much IMO. I stress this is my OPINION. :)
Yes - it sounded like a reply from someone who couldn't really be bothered to read the question. It was certainly 100% useless. Good idea to try FB I guess, although Jerry (like me) doesn't do FB. I find the assumption of some companies that everyone does FB or Twitter to be quite irritating and it usually means I don't bother with them.
Their response "Unfortunately the only fix for the incorrect sub2 values in loaded measurements is to record the trim and distance settings the first time the measurements are taken" really, really winds me up. No, you idiots at Audyssey - this is not the ONLY fix. There is always the proper fix which is for them to find the damn bug and sort it out! Clearly, they have no intention of doing that or they would not reply that way.
Personally, I think this thread is infinitely more use than Audyssey Support, although in this instance we aren't able to help Jerry with his query (which puts us on a par with the 'Professionals' it seems). I'll bet Jerry figures it out himself before Audyssey support swings into action with a proper response. I think we need to face it: they have given up on Pro.
You are correct, Keith. I had a Facebook account, although I never used it. I got tired of getting unwanted email alerts from FB, so I deleted my account. I'm not exactly a Luddite, but I can do without FB and Twitter.
I don't think I'll actually figure this one out, but the error I reported doesn't happen that frequently. And, since no one else reported it, it could well be my hardware that is causing it. BTW, there is a new caution--when presented with the crossover selection screen, the distance and trim for Sub1 is displayed. Write it down and you have half the values you need. Use the sub distance tweak measurements to figure out the values for sub2. Another kludge work-around...
Agreed wrt to FB and Twitter. It just annoys me when companies assume we all want FB and Twitter accounts so I generally don't want to do business with such companies if I can avoid it. No problem with them having FB pages and Twitter accounts, of course - but when that is their sole means of communication with their audience, forget it...
I have never really been all that bothered that Pro can’t handle my two subs properly because IME it doesn't handle the splice very well at all anyway (because it never measures the combines mains+subs response). So if I have to manually intervene, as I do, with the sub distance tweak, then the point about Pro's efficacy in that area becomes moot.
Sorry Jeff but this makes no sense to me. What has the AVR manufacturer got to do with the Audyssey software on my laptop? The Audyssey software does not compute the delay and distance for the second sub. How on earth can this be laid at the door of the AVR manufacturer?
Even if this was correct, Audyssey could compute the data, using the laptop, and present the result for sub 2 and we could enter it manually if, for some unknown reason, the AVR manufacturer has decided not to allow second sub data to be transferred.
It isn’t in any way shape or form credible to me that this can be a fault of the AVR manufacturer. It makes no sense. Nor does the idea that Onkyo and Denon both, in this vision of the universe, have decided to disallow the storing of 2nd sub data, even though they otherwise make provision for the use of dual subs.
EDIT: Given that the AVRs are perfectly capable of storing the data for 2 subs (they do), what possible scenario can you envisage for the AVR manufacturer to make the decision that Audyssey can store all the other parameters in their data file, except for the data relating to the second sub?
Whatever the scenario, it still makes no sense because the inability to compute the data in the first place is the issue, not how it is or isn't transferred to the AVR from the laptop. As I said before: the data is not even on the laptop.
I think there's a few factors that may be at work irt what's happening (or not happening) on the thread. It seems to me that few folks post here with problems anymore because almost all problems are with initial setup and solutions have been posted. Keith's FAQ is a treasure trove of info.
As to whether Pro's popularity (if one can use the term for such a niche product) is waning, it's pretty hard to judge by this thread. After all, I started this thread because the prior Pro thread had died and I didn't realize we could revive it.
Another factor is that XT32, unlike XT, is so darn good that it is necessary and sufficient for the huge majority of folks in and of itself to achieve great SQ. For ex., over recent months, several of us Pro owners have encouraged current XT owners who posted inquiries about Pro to instead buy a new AVP with XT32.
Of course another factor is price vs value-added. At $700 the Pro kit buy-in is a fairly pricey add-on to a $2-3.5K XT-32-equipped AVP. Pro's specific value-added feature set obviously does not have broad appeal at that price. For ex., not everyone wants to tweak the curves and/or eliminate MRC and many AVPs (Denon/Marantz) have built-in capability to save and reload multiple custom calibrations independent of Pro.
Some sophisticated users like Keith and AJ have found other gear, tweaking techniques and acoustic room treatments to be very useful. At that level of sophistication Pro's contribution to overall SQ may well appear to be less, and its shortcomings appear to loom larger.
However, as I've pointed out before, very few users sell their kit-and IIRC those are usually folks who are abandoning Audyssey, and perhaps DSP RC, altogether.
You keep missing my point, Jeff. The issue is that Audyssey does not compute the data for Sub 2 in the first place. That can only be Audyssey's problem. Forget how the data gets to the AVR - it isn't there to start with! It cannot have anything at all to do with the AVR manufacturer that data for Sub 2 distance and level is not even calculated. It's a BUG!
Fair enough. You are more accepting of the explanation than I am, and I can see no flaw in my own logic. To me, the explanation is bogus.
So your contention is the Audyssey software computes the data for Sub 2, but then keeps it from us because the AVR manufacturers told them to? Do you think that is a credible position?
LOL. That says it all, Jerry.
I never realised. Mazel tov! And a belated Shana Tova too.