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The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 169

post #5041 of 5251
^^ And ultimately he used a proprietary EQ of his own, IIRC
post #5042 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

^^ And ultimately he used a proprietary EQ of his own, IIRC

Nyal is not your average A/V enthusiast.

Jeff
post #5043 of 5251
I see there is a "new" version on the website, v3.6 I'm still using v3.4 on my Onkyo PR-SC5508. Is v3.6 supported, and did they fix the two subs, loaded measurements bug?
post #5044 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by atledreier View Post

I see there is a "new" version on the website, v3.6 I'm still using v3.4 on my Onkyo PR-SC5508. Is v3.6 supported, and did they fix the two subs, loaded measurements bug?
I think I am using 3.6 with my 5508. The bugs you mention were not fixed, not will they be.

Jeff
Edited by pepar - 1/6/14 at 2:33pm
post #5045 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by atledreier View Post

I see there is a "new" version on the website, v3.6 I'm still using v3.4 on my Onkyo PR-SC5508. Is v3.6 supported, and did they fix the two subs, loaded measurements bug?

V3.6 was issued to support new AVR models. It was tested against the list of "known issue" and none of the issues were shown to be corrected.
post #5046 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

V3.6 was issued to support new AVR models. It was tested against the list of "known issue" and none of the issues were shown to be corrected.

Jerry, didn't it fix the data transfer bug affecting Denon?

Jeff
post #5047 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Jerry, didn't it fix the data transfer bug affecting Denon?

Jeff

I thought that was 3.5, BICBW. While that bug was fixed, the other bugs on my list are still there.
post #5048 of 5251
Were these now known bugs with Pro observed with the 3.4 version? I was thinking about reverting back if most of these bugs happened in later versions.
post #5049 of 5251
If you have XT32 and two discrete sub channels, then you have the bugs. It's been covered and argued but basically they will not be fixed due to limited DSP resources Audyssey can use as well as uncooperative manufacturers. Even that has been argued with some considering that to be no excuse. Read back a number of pages.

Jeff
post #5050 of 5251
Hello,

I originally posted my request for help in the 4311CI thread but it was sugested that this might be the more appropriate place.

I can't get serial communication with the 4311CI (communication time out error).

Things I tried so far
  • Three different USB-Serial cables. The one supplied by in the kit is the Sabrent CB-FTDI based on the FTDI chip, another cable that I already had also based on the FTDI chip. I also bough the Keyspan cable (I'm not sure which chip is in it)
  • Tried the tidbits suggested earlier in the thread.
  • Tried to use a null adapter.
  • Tried different softwares to communicate with the 4311 to exclude the Audyssey software as the cause of the issue. So I tried the eventghost Denon Serial plugin and a couple of serial terminals, including Hercules that is suggested on the Denon website. None of them can communicate with the Denon.
  • The two FTDI cables can communicated without issues with my Radiance XD, so the cables are functional.
  • Tried two different laptops, a recent Win8.1 and an old WinXP

I'm stumped. Another suggestion I read was to install the Prolific driver, but what I don't understand is how this would work, given that the supplied cable is based on the FTDI chip, not the Prolific chip.

Thank you!
post #5051 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieagain View Post

Hello,

I originally posted my request for help in the 4311CI thread but it was sugested that this might be the more appropriate place.

I can't get serial communication with the 4311CI (communication time out error).

Things I tried so far
  • Three different USB-Serial cables. The one supplied by in the kit is the Sabrent CB-FTDI based on the FTDI chip, another cable that I already had also based on the FTDI chip. I also bough the Keyspan cable (I'm not sure which chip is in it)
  • Tried the tidbits suggested earlier in the thread.
  • Tried to use a null adapter.
  • Tried different softwares to communicate with the 4311 to exclude the Audyssey software as the cause of the issue. So I tried the eventghost Denon Serial plugin and a couple of serial terminals, including Hercules that is suggested on the Denon website. None of them can communicate with the Denon.
  • The two FTDI cables can communicated without issues with my Radiance XD, so the cables are functional.
  • Tried two different laptops, a recent Win8.1 and an old WinXP

I'm stumped. Another suggestion I read was to install the Prolific driver, but what I don't understand is how this would work, given that the supplied cable is based on the FTDI chip, not the Prolific chip.

Thank you!

It sounds to me like your RS232 is not working on your Denon. Have you got the latest firmware installed? Can you confirm the serial port works via another method?
post #5052 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by windshear View Post

It sounds to me like your RS232 is not working on your Denon. Have you got the latest firmware installed? Can you confirm the serial port works via another method?

I believe I have the latest firmware installed (revision 007).
No, I can't get the serial port working with any method. So far I've been only using IP control for this receiver and I didn't have any issue.
post #5053 of 5251
Have a look in your manual on pg 27, there is a procedure for using the RS232. This assumes of course that you are using an external control device. It may be that for the serial port to be activated/initialised it needs this process. What operating system are you using? Have you tried connecting while having the Ethernet cable disconnected as well as disabled in the software?
post #5054 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieagain View Post

I believe I have the latest firmware installed (revision 007).
No, I can't get the serial port working with any method. So far I've been only using IP control for this receiver and I didn't have any issue.

As you probably know, you need to get the serial port working, and then get it working with your computer before Audysey Pro will work.

Jeff
Edited by pepar - 1/7/14 at 8:59am
post #5055 of 5251
Log into the Audyssey installer site. Download the Denon user guide, on pg 37 it explains what you need to do in your Receiver for that error.
post #5056 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by windshear View Post

Log into the Audyssey installer site. Download the Denon user guide, on pg 37 it explains what you need to do in your Receiver for that error.

Thanks windshear. I already looked at that document. Unfortunately the 2-way remote option mentioned in the document is not present in the 4311CI menu, at least not where the document says it should be. This might be because the guide is for the xx08 models. I tried to find an equivalent option in the 4311CI, but I couldn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

As you probably know, you need to get the serial port working, and then get it working with your computer before Audysey Pro will work.

Jeff

Yes, I agree. That is why I tried to control the AVR with eventghost through the serial port, just to prove that the port is working, but I haven't been successful.

I'm going to try another improbable thing. I found out that Sabrent also sells a usb to rs232 cable based on the Prolific chip, so I ordered that too, so I can finally try the driver from the installer website.

I'm almost thinking that my AVR might have a defective serial port, but it seems a little bit of a far fetched theory ;-)

Giovanni
post #5057 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieagain View Post

I'm stumped. Another suggestion I read was to install the Prolific driver, but what I don't understand is how this would work, given that the supplied cable is based on the FTDI chip, not the Prolific chip.

Here's what I did:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

Got it to work a while ago on Asus Zenbook Prime with Win7 64-bit and USB 3.0 ports, but forgot to report back. It might have been simply a Win7 64-bit driver issue, but just in case I bought a Plugable USB-serial adapter (along with a DB9 male/female mini gender changer and a Plugable 32' USB extension cable), installed the latest Prolific driver that Plugable supplies on their site and haven't seen a USB time-out since then. Again, thanks for all the suggestions.
post #5058 of 5251
zombieagain,

These serial-to-USB communications have almost always been driver related. My initial problems (Win 7 x64 and the adapter that came with the Pro kit) were solved by going to Prolific's site and getting the latest driver for my OS. When I had a Win XP laptop witha serial port, I had zero problems.

Have you contacted the adspter's manufacturer?

Jeff
post #5059 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

zombieagain,

These serial-to-USB communications have almost always been driver related. My initial problems (Win 7 x64 and the adapter that came with the Pro kit) were solved by going to Prolific's site and getting the latest driver for my OS. When I had a Win XP laptop witha serial port, I had zero problems.

Have you contacted the adspter's manufacturer?

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. it seems that a lot of people here had good success with Prolific chip based cables. My Audyssey pro kit contained an FTDI based cable, unfortunately. Tomorrow I'll receive a Prolific chip based adapter and I'll try it out and go from there. Thanks for all the suggestions and for responding so fast. I'll post an updated tomorrow night.

zombieagain
post #5060 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

If you have XT32 and two discrete sub channels, then you have the bugs. It's been covered and argued but basically they will not be fixed due to limited DSP resources Audyssey can use as well as uncooperative manufacturers. Even that has been argued with some considering that to be no excuse. Read back a number of pages.

Jeff

So the bugs only come into play with XT32 equipped devices with dual subs selected?
post #5061 of 5251
Well I just put in my order for the Audyssey Pro Kit to go along with my Denon AVR-4520ci and X4000. . . . we will see if it makes a difference at all.
post #5062 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

So the bugs only come into play with XT32 equipped devices with dual subs selected?

Steven, you can read the list of bugs here to decide which affect you: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346723/the-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread-faq-in-post-1/4920_20#post_24127983.
post #5063 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamiraa View Post

Well I just put in my order for the Audyssey Pro Kit to go along with my Denon AVR-4520ci and X4000. . . . we will see if it makes a difference at all.

Congratulations! We will be looking forward to your report.
post #5064 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Congratulations! We will be looking forward to your report.

I'm becoming less excited the more I read in this thread from the seasoned AVR-4520ci "Crew".

Sounds like a lot of the folks don't feel happy with the upgrade. You and I have both followed similar routes, AVR-4311ci, to AVR-4520ci, then multiple mics for REW. I must admit I was probably following your foot steps after your posts, much like the interest in Audyssey Pro.

But in the end, since you have lived with the kit before and after for a while. What are you final thoughts, was it a significant upgrade?


For example, when I went from the AVR-4311ci to AVR-4520ci I was happy, but it wasn't mind blowing.

On the other hand, when I went from my AVR-3313ci to X4000ci (XT to XT32 / SubEQ) the results were just astounding. I was taken back by how amazing the room sounded with the simple upgrade.

Obviously, I'm not going to have the same delta experience with this kit, but I want to get my expectations in order.

Thanks! biggrin.gif
post #5065 of 5251

Fair questions.  I purchased the Pro Kit when I still had the 4311.  At that time I felt that the Pro Kit provided an incremental improvement in sound quality over the base consumer XT32 calibration.  Of course, I maintain that the value (to me at least) of the Pro kit are some of the other features, such as being able to store and re-load measurement files, more than 8 measuring points, etc.

 

As I have reported in earlier posts, I heard no significant sound quality difference going from the 4311 to a 4520, either with a consumer or a Pro calibration.  My primary purpose in upgrading was that I needed to replace an aging AVR in my bedroom system, and I wanted to standardize on XT32 for both AVR's.  Of course, the 4520 has a few new bells and whistles, but the sound quality is the same.

post #5066 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Fair questions.  I purchased the Pro Kit when I still had the 4311.  At that time I felt that the Pro Kit provided an incremental improvement in sound quality over the base consumer XT32 calibration.  Of course, I maintain that the value (to me at least) of the Pro kit are some of the other features, such as being able to store and re-load measurement files, more than 8 measuring points, etc.

As I have reported in earlier posts, I heard no significant sound quality difference going from the 4311 to a 4520, either with a consumer or a Pro calibration.  My primary purpose in upgrading was that I needed to replace an aging AVR in my bedroom system, and I wanted to standardize on XT32 for both AVR's.  Of course, the 4520 has a few new bells and whistles, but the sound quality is the same.

YMMV but in my opinion, the Pro kit is most valuable for somebody that's a repeated calibrator, or that wants the hands-on ability to change the MRC or use the Target Curve Editor. Or that has a need for more than eight measurement positions, and wants some automated help to suggest multiple crossover points for a given speaker.. Otherwise it's primarily a convenience device to save measurements and/or go back to old calibrations for those that don't have a Denon with a Save/Load function.

Having said that, I wouldn't expect much if any difference in the SQ between two different Denon's implementation of XT32 with Pro, or between basic/consumer Audyssey XT32 vs. use with Pro. Still, in my book the convenience and incremental additional functionality is worth the money vs. not having it at all for an Audyssey system if Audyssey is a primary element in your acoustic correction of the room.
post #5067 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieagain View Post

Thanks Jeff. it seems that a lot of people here had good success with Prolific chip based cables. My Audyssey pro kit contained an FTDI based cable, unfortunately. Tomorrow I'll receive a Prolific chip based adapter and I'll try it out and go from there. Thanks for all the suggestions and for responding so fast. I'll post an updated tomorrow night.

zombieagain

Ok, I tried the new prolific cable and I still can't communicate with the receiver. To totally exclude an issue with USB-Serial drivers I also enabled the serial port in my HTPC and connected a straight rs232 cable to the 4311. I disconnected the ethernet cable, unplugged the receiver, performed a microprocessor reset and I still can't talk to the 4311. I even tried to plug the receiver directly into a wall outlet instead that in the surge protector.

I again tried to communicate not only using the Audyssey software but also using a serial terminal utility and the eventghost Denon serial plugin. None of them worked. It looks to me like the serial port on my receiver is dead.

My next step would be to try and contact Denon technical support unless there are better suggestions.

Thanks,
Giovanni
post #5068 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieagain View Post

My next step would be to try and contact Denon technical support unless there are better suggestions.

Thanks,
Giovanni

Agreed, Giovanni.
post #5069 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamiraa View Post

I'm becoming less excited the more I read in this thread from the seasoned AVR-4520ci "Crew".

Sounds like a lot of the folks don't feel happy with the upgrade. You and I have both followed similar routes, AVR-4311ci, to AVR-4520ci, then multiple mics for REW. I must admit I was probably following your foot steps after your posts, much like the interest in Audyssey Pro.

But in the end, since you have lived with the kit before and after for a while. What are you final thoughts, was it a significant upgrade?


For example, when I went from the AVR-4311ci to AVR-4520ci I was happy, but it wasn't mind blowing.

On the other hand, when I went from my AVR-3313ci to X4000ci (XT to XT32 / SubEQ) the results were just astounding. I was taken back by how amazing the room sounded with the simple upgrade.

Obviously, I'm not going to have the same delta experience with this kit, but I want to get my expectations in order.

Thanks! biggrin.gif

I would agree that, outside of the flexibility of saving and reloading different calibration for different speaker configurations and/or different target curves, the sound quality difference is subtle. To my ears, Pro improves the integration of the surrounds with LCR as well as improving integration of the main speakers with the sub. I have one scene that has become my test and that is the meat-packing plant scene of Sherlock Holmes where the villain's disembodied voice bounces around the room. With Pro (over consumer XT32) the timbre match is uncanny with his boomy voice sounding identical regardless of its location. To my ears, it is just slightly better.

YMMV.

Jeff
post #5070 of 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieagain View Post

Ok, I tried the new prolific cable and I still can't communicate with the receiver. To totally exclude an issue with USB-Serial drivers I also enabled the serial port in my HTPC and connected a straight rs232 cable to the 4311. I disconnected the ethernet cable, unplugged the receiver, performed a microprocessor reset and I still can't talk to the 4311. I even tried to plug the receiver directly into a wall outlet instead that in the surge protector.

I again tried to communicate not only using the Audyssey software but also using a serial terminal utility and the eventghost Denon serial plugin. None of them worked. It looks to me like the serial port on my receiver is dead.

My next step would be to try and contact Denon technical support unless there are better suggestions.

Thanks,
Giovanni

Hi, I've got some good news, even though I'm not sure why ;-) I really didn't want to ship my Denon for service and an inquiry to a local electronics repair shop went unanswered, so this morning, armed with screwdriver and multimeter, I decided to try and understand if there was something obviously wrong, electrically. I opened the receiver, removed the daughter card where the serial port is and went through a basic electrical inspection (capacitors, resistors, ground, board integrity, etc...). I couldn't find anything clear, so I was suspecting the the RS232 receiver (a knockoff of the famous MAX3232). I reconnected everything, put the receiver back together, tried the serial communication and surprise, surprise, everything worked at the first try. I made no changes to drivers, no changes to settings (for example network standby is ON), it just worked. I tried two USB-Serial adapters so far (none of them uses the Prolific driver) and everything seems solid, we'll see.

I don't have a good explanation (maybe the connection between the daughter card and the main board was a little flaky, who knows), I'm just happy.

Now I just need to send my wife and the baby out of the house for a couple of hours...

Thanks for the support, sorry if I took the thread a little off topic.
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