AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › 5.1 to 7.1 or get an amp?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

5.1 to 7.1 or get an amp?

post #1 of 32
7/10/11 at 3:27pm
Thread Starter 
should i first invest in an amplifier for my front three or get two rear surrounds to go from 5.1 to 7.1?
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2 of 32
7/10/11 at 3:50pm
That all depends on...

Can you do a "proper" 7.1 layout?
What makes you think your current receiver(which one is it) isn't enough power?
Do you listen to mostly BD(which is the only way to get actual 7.1 content, instead of "matrixed"...ie 4/5 and 6/7 doing the "exact same thing")?

If the answer to one and three are both "no"...then I would suggest doing "high" or "wide" instead...if the answer to number two is a receiver that has Presence/Audyssey DSX/Dolby PL IIz.
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 32
7/10/11 at 4:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

That all depends on...

Can you do a "proper" 7.1 layout?
What makes you think your current receiver(which one is it) isn't enough power?
Do you listen to mostly BD(which is the only way to get actual 7.1 content, instead of "matrixed"...ie 4/5 and 6/7 doing the "exact same thing")?

If the answer to one and three are both "no"...then I would suggest doing "high" or "wide" instead...if the answer to number two is a receiver that has Presence/Audyssey DSX/Dolby PL IIz.

I can do a proper layout. My receiver is a marantz 5005. I watch BD almost exclusively.
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 32
7/10/11 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

should i first invest in an amplifier for my front three or get two rear surrounds to go from 5.1 to 7.1?


What are the front 3 speakers and what size is the room?
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 32
7/10/11 at 4:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensctt View Post


What are the front 3 speakers and what size is the room?

Aperion 6t's and a 5c. Room is 20x20x8.
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 32
7/10/11 at 4:51pm
Well, the Intimus 6T is 91db efficient and 6ohm. Which means two things...

1. Your Marantz produces, more than likely, a healthy 80wpc (by 5, not just two) before it starts to strain itself.
2. Your speakers are easily producing 109db at 3 feet(64 watts...if my calculator and my fingers worked).

Assuming you are 15 feet back, the max "non-strained" volume is 102db-ish.

So "maybe" you need more power?

Adding more power will only get to +3 more db(cause if 64 gives you what you have now...it takes 128 for 105).

Get more efficient speakers????
Or maybe more power will do the trick, but you'll need AT LEAST 200x3 to make ANY noticeable difference.
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 32
7/10/11 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Room is 20x20x8.

How far do you sit from the back wall?
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 32
7/10/11 at 5:05pm
My couch is on the back wall.. I went " wides " with my 7.2 setup.. liked it more then conventional 7.2 and moving the couch forward.
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 32
7/10/11 at 5:17pm
What are you after? If your worried about AQ then your better off investing in room treatments and or bass traps. If it's mainly movies,what sub do you have? With your fronts I don't think you will hear a big difference adding an amp. You might hear a little more with music but I don't think it's worth the $$$$$
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 32
7/10/11 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

should i first invest in an amplifier for my front three or get two rear surrounds to go from 5.1 to 7.1?

What sub do you have - Also, I would prefer a solid 5.1 over a
weak 7.1
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 32
7/10/11 at 5:37pm
Thread Starter 
The amp I would get would be 200 x 3. I actually sit about 9-10 feet away. Is higher spl all I would get from using an external amp? Is there any dynamic or sound quality benefits?
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 32
7/10/11 at 5:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

How far do you sit from the back wall?

Couch is about 8 feet from the back wall. My sub is a Aperion bravus 12D. Music is where I would like to benefit the most.
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 32
7/10/11 at 5:43pm
Mostly louder volume before distortion, especially in a blind test. So if you listen loud (get an SPL meter) a lot, it may be beneficial to purchase a power amp. I think that your speakers, receiver, listening distance, and room size are fine without having to add additional amplification. I'd go with room treatments, another subwoofer, or a bigger TV first.
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 32
7/10/11 at 6:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

A stronger musical sub - would be my choice.

Hmmmm. I have to think you've never heard this sub.
Reply
Reply
post #15 of 32
7/10/11 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Hmmmm. I have to think you've never heard this sub.

I think your sub is a fine one, but adding another would be more beneficial than adding a 3 channel amp.
Reply
Reply
post #16 of 32
7/10/11 at 6:15pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your advise guys. I'll put the money somewhere else. As for the sub. The only ways I would go would be to add another 12d or sell my 12d and get dual legends. I prefer sealed subs.
Reply
Reply
post #17 of 32
7/10/11 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Couch is about 8 feet from the back wall. My sub is a Aperion bravus 12D. Music is where I would like to benefit the most.

Personally, I'd go for the the amp upgrade. What are you thinking of in terms of amps? Maybe add a 2CH amp?
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 32
7/10/11 at 6:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensctt View Post


Personally, I'd go for the the amp upgrade. What are you thinking of in terms of amps? Maybe add a 2CH amp?

I was thinking Emotiva xpa-3 and letting my receiver handle the surrounds.
Reply
Reply
post #19 of 32
7/10/11 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Thanks for your advise guys. I'll put the money somewhere else. As for the sub. The only ways I would go would be to add another 12d or sell my 12d and get dual legends. I prefer sealed subs.

I'd go with an additional 12D over the legends. I have purchased and used many power amps in the past. I've found that getting speakers and a receiver that mate well to my rooms have worked out fine without having to purchase additional amplification in most cases. I tend to end up with powerful receiver and higher sensitivity speakers. I believe that with your speakers and receiver, you simply just don't need to spend additional funds on a separate amplifier, so much as the money invested in the amp would be better spent elsewhere. That said, I don't want to come off as it wouldn't help a little to get the amp, because it most likely would at high volume.
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 32
7/10/11 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I was thinking Emotiva xpa-3 and letting my receiver handle the surrounds.

If you did go this route, you may notice a difference... and could always send it back to emotiva and get your money back less shipping if it isn't the difference you'd hoped.
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 32
7/10/11 at 6:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannoiaj View Post


I'd go with an additional 12D over the legends. I have purchased and used many power amps in the past. I've found that getting speakers and a receiver that mate well to my rooms have worked out fine without having to purchase additional amplification in most cases. I tend to end up with powerful receiver and higher sensitivity speakers. I believe that with your speakers and receiver, you simply just don't need to spend additional funds on a separate amplifier, so much as the money invested in the amp would be better spent elsewhere. That said, I don't want to come off as it wouldn't help a little to get the amp, because it most likely would.

I would rather get a second 12d over dual legends as well. I really love this sub. I will just start looking for another one if you guys think that would be a smarter upgrade than adding rear surrounds.
Reply
Reply
post #22 of 32
7/10/11 at 6:39pm
I think the 2nd sub would give you more than adding rear surrounds or a 3 channel amplifier. After you have the 2nd sub in place, then down the road you could throw up some room treatments, rear surrounds, and an additional amplifier for the front stage in that order. That upgrade path would seem to make very good sense in order of importance and impact. That's if you decide you need additional amplification at all to begin with. Once you treat your room, it'll be much easier to determine whether or not you'd need amplification imo.
Reply
Reply
post #23 of 32
7/10/11 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Hmmmm. I have to think you've never heard this sub.

I got my subs mixed up, I was thinking about a different one. I tried to
delete my post, before any response was made. My Bad.
Reply
Reply
post #24 of 32
7/10/11 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Couch is about 8 feet from the back wall.

In that case, you're an excellent candidate to go 7.1. Adding a pair of rear speakers (and moving your current surrounds to your sides) will result in a few noticeable advantages over a 5.1 set-up.
  • Better wrap-around envelopment: 4 speakers will literally 'surround' you better than 2 speakers ever could.
  • More precise rear-vs-side directionality: 4 hard sources instead of 2, placed over a wider arc.
  • Greater imaging stability: sounds at your sides and behind you stay locked in those direction because of speakers placed at those locations.
Compared to going 7.1, I doubt you'll notice much difference (if at all) by adding an outboard amp. Down the road, I would add another 12D subwoofer to improve low frequency response.
Reply
Reply
post #25 of 32
7/10/11 at 7:33pm
Forgot to ask, what are you using for surrounds currently?
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 32
7/10/11 at 7:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Forgot to ask, what are you using for surrounds currently?

2 Aperion 4bp's
Reply
Reply
post #27 of 32
7/10/11 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannoiaj View Post

I think the 2nd sub would give you more than adding rear surrounds or a 3 channel amplifier. After you have the 2nd sub in place, then down the road you could throw up some room treatments, rear surrounds, and an additional amplifier for the front stage in that order. That upgrade path would seem to make very good sense in order of importance and impact. That's if you decide you need additional amplification at all to begin with. Once you treat your room, it'll be much easier to determine whether or not you'd need amplification imo.

This is my vote as well, with the caveat that you get Omnimic or Rew to optimize the sub placements across your listening positions. Dual subs will enable you to get much better frequency response proper placed, but they could actually make things worse if not done right.

It's amazing how tighter, deeper bass can impact the entire sound of your system. The improvement will of course depend on your room, but I've seen properly placed and measured dual subs improve SQ so much it was like there was a speaker upgrade. Certainly a much greater improvement than I've ever seen from the addition of an amp.

Just my 2 cents.
Reply
Reply
post #28 of 32
7/10/11 at 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

2 Aperion 4bp's

Another pair of those, for consistent sound all the way 'round, and you're set. They're even on sale.

Your current surrounds should be placed directly to your sides (or as close to that as possible). Rear speakers should be spread at least 60 degrees (from your seating distance, roughly 9.5-10 feet apart) on the back wall. This will let you hear left-vs-right separation and stereo imaging behind you.

See attached diagram.
LL
Reply
Reply
post #29 of 32
7/10/11 at 9:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

The amp I would get would be 200 x 3. I actually sit about 9-10 feet away. Is higher spl all I would get from using an external amp? Is there any dynamic or sound quality benefits?

Along with higher volume it will increase your sound quality and dynamics. I noticed this with a few speakers while more power can make them louder you begin you hear parts of the track you never heard before
Reply
Reply
post #30 of 32
7/13/11 at 7:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Along with higher volume it will increase your sound quality and dynamics. I noticed this with a few speakers while more power can make them louder you begin you hear parts of the track you never heard before

see thats the thing. the amp is really meant to improve the 2 channel performance of the 6T's. i was also thinking that pushing more power into the 6T's and setting them to large+LFE while watching movies would increase the bass similar to adding a sub. they go down to 35-30hz.

maybe a XPA-2? should be 400 watts into a 6ohm speaker.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › 5.1 to 7.1 or get an amp?