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Disneys 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea - Blu ray - Page 2

post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strevlac View Post
I have hated every classic animated Disney bluray I've seen. I'm sure the trend will continue with this one.
That's a pity, but 20,000 Leagues ain't animated.
post #32 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post
That's a pity, but 20,000 Leagues ain't animated.
Yeah. But considering the modus operandi over there I hardly feel it matters. They did the same thing with the DVD.
post #33 of 59
Just saw a beautiful 35mm print of this Saturday night, projected on a HUGE screen in a classic theater.

The wires were not visible to me during the squid sequence, and this was not a "brand new" print.

So although I'm a purist, in this case I'd say the original intent of the filmmakers was to hide the wires. I've got no problem with their removal.

Now diddle with the COLOR on the other hand...

S A M 33
post #34 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strevlac View Post
I have hated every classic animated Disney bluray I've seen. I'm sure the trend will continue with this one.
???????

Surely your not including the Pixar films that statement.
post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

???????

Surely your not including the Pixar films that statement.

No he's not.
post #36 of 59
What I'd love to see is the Man In Space series.

Art
post #37 of 59
Thread Starter 
20,000 Leagues is being shown on DirectTVs DHNet hidef channel this month and I happen to catch a viewing this weekend. I can't say what they're showing is the same source that will make it to Blu-ray but it *is* definitely a new HD master and there are significant color timing changes and image/frame composition changes as well. There also appears to be a (un)healthy amount of DNR and minor edge enhancement going on as well.

For starters, the opening credits sequence, those background curtains which originally had a rich reddish orange color (which was significantly toned down for the dvd release) are now almost colorless until the blue water reflection is projected on them as the credits roll (which are now in crystal clear light blue). Colors overall feature a significantly desaturated look throughout the movie. Underwater scenes have a much more flat, "blue" look to them. There's numerous darker scenes which have black crush.

Real issues become apparent during the attack and sinking sequence of the "nitrate" slave ship at about the 1 hour mark. In the original movie and all previous home video presentations, as the Nautilus waits in the lagoon for the ship to leave with the tide, the sun sets over a warm, orange cloudy sky - however in the new HD print, the sky and clouds are now tinted blue (although the sun is still warm yellow/orange) and the lagoon waters reflect a darker bluish hue. When the Nautilus is about to ram the ship and there's several fast cuts between Nemo's face and the ship from his POV, in the original film the ship was "stretched out" in the frame *on purpose* to give it more of an imposing size on screen even though it does make the ship look out of proportion - in this version, the brief shots of the ship have been zoomed in and the proportion corrected. It *may* be a better choice compositionally but it's not what the original scene look(ed) like.

There's several other notable issues like the above throughout the movie where apparently the restoration team either didn't understand the director's intent and thought they were "fixing" things that weren't actually issues or the decision was simply made to correct what they perceived as problems in individual scenes for "today's audiences."

The audio is problematic as well. Much of the movie, the soundtrack is center speaker-specific but at really odd times, the soundtrack will fill the L/R and rear surrounds.

Obviously, a HD broadcast often isn't a really good barometer of what an impending Blu-ray release may look like, but in this case regarding one of my favorite films, it may be a troubling indicator.
post #38 of 59
Well, it's like Universal Home Video looking at Out of Africa and somebody noticing that there was some camera shake in one sequence... and assuming they'd just "fix it." They don't look at film as an art form, they see it as a money making commodity.
post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Well, it's like Universal Home Video looking at Out of Africa and somebody noticing that there was some camera shake in one sequence... and assuming they'd just "fix it." They don't look at film as an art form, they see it as a money making commodity.

That is how studios have always look at films. Studios are not in the art business; they are in the money-making business and have been since at least the first decade of the 20th Century.
post #40 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by S A M 33 View Post

Just saw a beautiful 35mm print of this Saturday night, projected on a HUGE screen in a classic theater.


The wires were not visible to me during the squid sequence, and this was not a "brand new" print.


So although I'm a purist, in this case I'd say the original intent of the filmmakers was to hide the wires. I've got no problem with their removal.


Now diddle with the COLOR on the other hand...


S A M 33

Give Up!! If you haven't enjoyED, let alone likED, any Dizz-Knee Classics nor knew "20,000... " wasn't animatED, don't ever watch a Disney Classic film nor visit a Disney Classic thread AGAIN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strevlac View Post


Quote:


Originally Posted by RUR View Post

That's a pity, but 20,000 Leagues ain't animated.


Yeah. But considering the modus operandi over there I hardly feel it matters. They did the same thing with the DVD.
The color correction was done too the underwater scenes only (if I understood correctly); it all so falls into that 'they woulda done it if they coulda' scenario's.
If you don't mind "wire removal" you must all so realize that the color they got back-in-the-day underwater is nothing like what would be available today.
post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

20,000 Leagues is being shown on DirectTVs DHNet hidef channel this month and I happen to catch a viewing this weekend. I can't say what they're showing is the same source that will make it to Blu-ray but it *is* definitely a new HD master and there are significant color timing changes and image/frame composition changes as well. There also appears to be a (un)healthy amount of DNR and minor edge enhancement going on as well.
For starters, the opening credits sequence, those background curtains which originally had a rich reddish orange color (which was significantly toned down for the dvd release) are now almost colorless until the blue water reflection is projected on them as the credits roll (which are now in crystal clear light blue). Colors overall feature a significantly desaturated look throughout the movie. Underwater scenes have a much more flat, "blue" look to them. There's numerous darker scenes which have black crush.
Real issues become apparent during the attack and sinking sequence of the "nitrate" slave ship at about the 1 hour mark. In the original movie and all previous home video presentations, as the Nautilus waits in the lagoon for the ship to leave with the tide, the sun sets over a warm, orange cloudy sky - however in the new HD print, the sky and clouds are now tinted blue (although the sun is still warm yellow/orange) and the lagoon waters reflect a darker bluish hue. When the Nautilus is about to ram the ship and there's several fast cuts between Nemo's face and the ship from his POV, in the original film the ship was "stretched out" in the frame *on purpose* to give it more of an imposing size on screen even though it does make the ship look out of proportion - in this version, the brief shots of the ship have been zoomed in and the proportion corrected. It *may* be a better choice compositionally but it's not what the original scene look(ed) like.
There's several other notable issues like the above throughout the movie where apparently the restoration team either didn't understand the director's intent and thought they were "fixing" things that weren't actually issues or the decision was simply made to correct what they perceived as problems in individual scenes for "today's audiences."
The audio is problematic as well. Much of the movie, the soundtrack is center speaker-specific but at really odd times, the soundtrack will fill the L/R and rear surrounds.
Obviously, a HD broadcast often isn't a really good barometer of what an impending Blu-ray release may look like, but in this case regarding one of my favorite films, it may be a troubling indicator.
lOOks like it could be another BLUE Blu-ray!
I'm shockED!! rolleyes.gif
Thanks for the review & hope too catch it.
post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

20,000 Leagues is being shown on DirectTVs DHNet hidef channel this month .


You mean HDNet Movies, available on various carriers. Recorded LEAGUES and what I've seen so far looks absolutely fantastic.
post #43 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

You mean HDNet Movies, available on various carriers. Recorded LEAGUES and what I've seen so far looks absolutely fantastic.

Yeah, HDNet. Like I mentioned, I do think overall it's an improvement over previous home video releases as far as simple clarity and detail, but I think many of the issues I noted in my post severely compromise the original look of the film. IMO, it's maybe just a notch below the color timing changes made for the 1st release of The French Connection on Blu-ray. I will be very disappointed if this is the master source used for the Blu-ray release.
post #44 of 59
Disney I want to pay you cash for this and The Black Hole (1979) on bluray. Make it happen!
post #45 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

Disney I want to pay you cash for this and The Black Hole (1979) on bluray. Make it happen!
Ditto!
post #46 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

Disney I want to pay you cash for this and The Black Hole (1979) on bluray. Make it happen!

Until that happens, it can be seen in HD via Showtime (and OnDemand)
post #47 of 59
I'm not sure if I have a problem with wire removal. A well done blu-ray has stuff that may not have been visible theatrically just due to the absence of gate jitter present in any film projector. Examples that come to mind are the visible pattern of the retroreflector material in the dawn of man sequences in 2001, the sheer fabric over the camera in the day for night scenes in Dr. No. I saw those when I was much younger in decent theatrical presentations and never saw those things, but they are completely clear to the eye with blu-ray on a 10' HT screen.

And Disney is always mindful of negative reactions from younger fans to their classics, a group who generally easily dismisses "hokey old style" stuff (their reaction to the original Tron for example, where their test screenings that resulted in withholding the BD until after Legacy made its theatrical release).

Sort of a fine line for them to navigate.
post #48 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

Examples that come to mind are the visible pattern of the retroreflector material in the dawn of man sequences in 2001

Yes Kubrick chose 65mm which is higher definition then 1080p because he did not want people to see stuff! Nice anti-logic there, guess I will have to disregard all the articles and supplements which stated repeatably that Kubrick was on a quest to get the most detail possible for 2001. Kubrick was not present when the ape landscapes scenes where shot by the way at least according to the supplements.

The reason you could not see 'stuff' in theater is because you could not pause, rewind and play in slow-motion repeatedly. Interestingly the ones who make these claims are the often the same ones who 'cannot see' automatic filtering, even when it's thick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

And Disney is always mindful of negative reactions from younger fans to their classics, a group who generally easily dismisses "hokey old style" stuff (their reaction to the original Tron for example, where their test screenings that resulted in withholding the BD until after Legacy made its theatrical release).

Disney was worried about the exact opposite, that people seeing Tron on BD would not see the sequel thus hurting BO revenue. Thank goodness Disney did the exact opposite of what you are advocating and did not 'fix' Tron, but instead left in the flaws which the director says in the supplements he originally saw and liked despite all the claims 'experts' like to make about such things. If the Tron BD had been done the 'Lowry way' it would of looked quite different and have less detail.
Edited by wuther - 8/21/12 at 4:56pm
post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Yes Kubrick chose 65mm which is higher definition then 1080p because he did not want people to see stuff! Nice anti-logic there, guess I will have to disregard all the articles and supplements which stated repeatably that Kubrick was on a quest to get the most detail possible for 2001. Kubrick was not present when the ape landscapes scenes where shot by the way at least according to the supplements.
The reason you could not see 'stuff' in theater is because you could not pause, rewind and play in slow-motion repeatedly. Interestingly the ones who make these claims are the often the same ones who 'cannot see' automatic filtering, even when it's thick.
Disney was worried about the exact opposite, that people seeing Tron on BD would not see the sequel thus hurting BO revenue. Thank goodness Disney did the exact opposite of what you are advocating and did not 'fix' Tron, but instead left in the flaws which the director says in the supplements he originally saw and liked despite all the claims 'experts' like to make about such things. If the Tron BD had been done the 'Lowry way' it would of looked quite different and have less detail.

tumblr_m4eq6vXBoW1qlzuomo1_500.gif
post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

A well done blu-ray has stuff that may not have been visible theatrically just due to the absence of gate jitter present in any film projector. Examples that come to mind are the visible pattern of the retroreflector material in the dawn of man sequences in 2001
The 70mm prints of 2001 are so sharp that you can see the grain behind the grain when just still photos are photographed. No Blu-ray can accomplish that.
post #51 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

The reason you could not see 'stuff' in theater is because you could not pause, rewind and play in slow-motion repeatedly. Interestingly the ones who make these claims are the often the same ones who 'cannot see' automatic filtering, even when it's thick.

Didn't notice it in the theater any of the 3 times I saw it in 70 mm (when I was younger and my vision markedly better). Noticed it immediately the first time I watched the blu-ray. A normal viewing. I am not into pausing and pixel peeping. Only difference would be I was probably more engrossed in the film when I watched it theatrically.

Are you saying film movement in a projector head has no effect on image clarity?
post #52 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil S. Bulk View Post

The 70mm prints of 2001 are so sharp that you can see the grain behind the grain when just still photos are photographed. No Blu-ray can accomplish that.

I agree the prints are sharp. I am saying the image on the screen suffers a bit though. I don't know, these film viewings were at the Cinerma dome in Hollywood in the '80s. Maybe their 70mm rig wasn't maintained as well as it ought to have been and had a lot of vibration.
post #53 of 59
I am not going to get into a back and forth with Brandon B just because he and other (dvd based) sites think they have 'discovered stuff' that are solely due to the fact they did not have a remote controller to play with in the theater.
post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

I agree the prints are sharp. I am saying the image on the screen suffers a bit though. I don't know, these film viewings were at the Cinerma dome in Hollywood in the '80s. Maybe their 70mm rig wasn't maintained as well as it ought to have been and had a lot of vibration.
Were there earthquakes during the showings; cause I've never heard that 70mm equipment was/is shaky?!?!
JJ
I'm a Kali Kid too!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil S. Bulk View Post

The 70mm prints of 2001 are so sharp that you can see the grain behind the grain when just still photos are photographed. No Blu-ray can accomplish that.
Are you saying you've seen photos of 70mm frames?!?!
What camera can photograph a single film frame too be blown-up too a photo print size?!?!
post #55 of 59
Many of the opening establishing shots of 2001 are still photos with their own grain. I'm saying I've seen prints (at the Egyptian over the last few years) where you could discern the grain of those photos behind the moving grain of the print. It's astonishing how clear that movie can look.
post #56 of 59
Many of the opening establishing shots of 2001 are still photos with their own grain

According to the little "Making of 2001" paperback, those shots from South Africa were shot with a view camera, a 4X5 as I recall. You shouldn't be able to see much grain with that as a source. I don't remember grain in those shots from the original release.
post #57 of 59
So when is this finally getting released?
post #58 of 59
I'm sure they will release it at some point in the near future but I haven't a clue when. There were supposed to be two productions of 20000 Leagues by two different studios - one of which was Disney and the release of the movie was supposed to arrive before their film hit cinemas - but both were shelved though Disney is said to be moving forward on their Fincher-helmed production albeit slowly due to the flops they have had lately.
post #59 of 59
This thread is a good example of never using rumor and speculation to proclaim when a blu-ray will be released, something the rival site is prone too. Only official announcements count.
Edited by wuther - 3/1/14 at 9:10am
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